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lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 04 2016, 3:35 AM 



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Any chance we could increase the loot chance from this crazy boss to something like 10% considering how annoying it is to actually get to it, followed by the rather long fight to actually kill the damn thing?


 
      
Commie
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 04 2016, 3:36 AM 

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It's a really easy boss and not really 'hard' to get to considering how other bosses are (beholders).

I mean the boss just does damage and it does it at a slow and consistent rate.

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lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 04 2016, 3:45 AM 



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The boss has a permanent chaos shield and a high Sneak attack. The Chaos shield can knock you down long for it to sneak most people to death. Or it has a ranged touch attack knockdown, long enough for it sneak you to death. Not exactly the best boss to try and solo considering its cheese tactics.


 
      
CrazyCatLady
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 04 2016, 3:46 AM 

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Commie wrote:
It's a really easy boss and not really 'hard' to get to considering how other bosses are (beholders).

I mean the boss just does damage and it does it at a slow and consistent rate.


That depends on your build. Not everyone is built for pvp or for boss hunting. I agree; an increased loot chance on this one would be great.

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 04 2016, 3:58 AM 

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lilmarcat wrote:
The boss has a permanent chaos shield and a high Sneak attack. The Chaos shield can knock you down long for it to sneak most people to death. Or it has a ranged touch attack knockdown, long enough for it sneak you to death. Not exactly the best boss to try and solo considering its cheese tactics.


no +5 boss is built to solo, i'd think. the fact you can solo some should be considered a blessing not the norm.

CrazyCatLady wrote:
Commie wrote:
It's a really easy boss and not really 'hard' to get to considering how other bosses are (beholders).

I mean the boss just does damage and it does it at a slow and consistent rate.


That depends on your build. Not everyone is built for pvp or for boss hunting. I agree; an increased loot chance on this one would be great.


some bosses are easily killed by some builds and others by others. i've got characters that can't to pirate and some that can, some that can't do manor and some that can. some people can solo beholders.

if you can't beat the ele go get a buddy.

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CrazyCatLady
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 04 2016, 4:02 AM 

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There are many who play during the hours a buddy can't be found.

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 04 2016, 4:03 AM 

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I would rather see loot chance go up by 1 with each party member you bring along like other loot rolls. I think this may have been suggested already though?

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 04 2016, 4:19 AM 

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CrazyCatLady wrote:
There are many who play during the hours a buddy can't be found.


i mean, then find the bosses you can do and go hard. i think everyone can do fire king with the right preparation.

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 04 2016, 12:28 PM 

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I can't get behind a flat increase to any bosses' loot drop chance. Something like what PS mentioned is more feasible. Though we also were talking about making it so when you kill a boss with a party, you all roll for loot. That would be awesome to get implemented.

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MisterLich
 
PostPosted: Tue, Aug 09 2016, 15:19 PM 

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Almost every build I can think of can take down at least 2 epic bosses solo, which is quite frankly the opposite of what an epic boss is in most games.

Count your blessings IMO, I don't even know how to find Rabka, but I can solo pirate/fire giants/Illithid Dominagus if I prepare my spellbook properly. (Honestly, any caster cleric should be able to solo pirate now, since we basically have laser cannons (maximized searing light) now. One spell that does 128 damage to the pirate, with no save. Add GRuin to that, and I kill pirate on Osiris in like 3 rounds or less when hasted.)

If you're on at an hour where not many people are usually online, maybe try posting in the forums and asking for someone to help you hunt bosses at a certain hour on a certain day, so you can get some boss hunting in. Someone would probably love to do that with you if you just made it known you were interested in it.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Tue, Aug 09 2016, 22:26 PM 

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Boss farming should really be reworked to incentivize party play. As it is I get more loot by gsanc running it alone than with a party. And that's because there's a flat 5% no matter how many people you bring and you have to figure out who gets the drop from there

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Tue, Aug 09 2016, 22:34 PM 

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i'd like a higher then 5% given how much in the epic item pool is literally garbage or worse then items you can just fucking buy from some ig vendor.

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Vesari
 
PostPosted: Tue, Aug 09 2016, 22:49 PM 

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Fought the Phane for the first time yesterday with a party. We need more bosses like that which encourage teamwork.

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Tue, Aug 09 2016, 22:52 PM 

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I would like to make the system based more around incentive to party up. Been trying to take grouped out boss farming together In game and role playing it as training and the like. It really works great when you can mix role-play in to the grind. Also it helps teach others exactly how to find the bosses and how to better combat them. I mys elf have been pondering requesting a mini dm event if I can get a group together to go after a specific boss to make things a bit more interesting IC. I'm just more concerned that the dms have enough things going on at the moment for such and Im unsure of who would even be interested in such.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 0:27 AM 

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Commie wrote:
i'd like a higher then 5% given how much in the epic item pool is literally garbage or worse then items you can just fucking buy from some ig vendor.


That would be neat. At the moment all my gear sets mostly disregard the epic loot bin and focus on flawless mythal farming the plane every time the server crashes resets.

I'm gonna write down some thoughts on improving the epic loot experience some and post after work.

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 0:34 AM 

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Commie wrote:
i'd like a higher then 5% given how much in the epic item pool is literally garbage or worse then items you can just fucking buy from some ig vendor.

That's really an awful idea. Then you will have people constantly getting good shit and not the crap. I've found more good stuff than bad, it's just how the rolls go. A better idea is reworking the epic loot tables.

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 0:52 AM 

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Naivatkal wrote:
Commie wrote:
i'd like a higher then 5% given how much in the epic item pool is literally garbage or worse then items you can just fucking buy from some ig vendor.

That's really an awful idea. Then you will have people constantly getting good shit and not the crap.


good.

this is the current way 'good shit' gets handled;

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=86755#p1405525

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=86401#p1405469

is that what you like/want?

I fail to see how more accessible good items is anything but an improvement. particularly when many, many of the 'good shit' items either do things you just can't get anywhere else or are nothing but more/higher numbers (ioun stones, +5 fort cloaks, etc).

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 1:14 AM 

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That is horrible for server economy. Might as well hand that stuff out then. I know you're in favor of that, but it's not going to happen because it's a bad idea.

If people want to pay that much for something IC then, well, that's their problem? No one forces anyone to do anything IC, so using that as an excuse for something OOC is really bad.

And you are also forgetting the flip side can happen; getting nothing but bad items. Which is why the correct way to approach the issue is fixing the way epic loot is handled, not increasing the rate at which people get stuff.

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 1:49 AM 

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Naivatkal wrote:
That is horrible for server economy. Might as well hand that stuff out then. I know you're in favor of that, but it's not going to happen because it's a bad idea.

If people want to pay that much for something IC then, well, that's their problem? No one forces anyone to do anything IC, so using that as an excuse for something OOC is really bad.

And you are also forgetting the flip side can happen; getting nothing but bad items. Which is why the correct way to approach the issue is fixing the way epic loot is handled, not increasing the rate at which people get stuff.


Some misconceptions here; Generally 'bad' items are still desired by some, just less. there are very few utterly dead drops but they do exist. also the server doesn't really have an economy and more relies on community agreed rules. that's very evident when some specific items (or custom dc/event gear) hit the open market and 'old money' consistently comes crawling out of nowhere to scoop it up with absurd bids; the reality of a system where money is constantly generated and never removed shines through. I understand that you personally think it's ok/fair/acceptable to be asking everyone bossrunner you meet if they have a +5 quarterstaff/dagger/rapier/scimitar or whatever you need to complete your build and be an effective character, with your queries going unanswered for months as the items in question either don't drop, or you can't get them despite farming and instead get slings/light crossbows/spears/two-bladed-swords, but the rest of us don't like it.

if you're good at math, consider how long it would take you to get the specific item you need if you do 5 bosses a day and the epic item pool is 100 items big and then come back and let me know if you still feel it's a good system.

Again, we've talked in the past and I know that many, many players feel that gear disparity (ex characters that are mechanically 'haves' and characters that are mechanically 'have nots') is a huge part of character identity, because that way some players can just have 2/3 more ac and 2/3 more to hit then less connected characters (And I consider myself a connected, knowledgeable and experienced player), but we just disagree on this fact. I believe in standardization, where epics are more toys and less required, because things like +30 concentration/discipline gloves, specific weapon master weapons, etc are just available because the items themselves have 0 rp component and are simply a mechanical advantage at this point in time.

I think an increase to boss loot chance would really alleviate this.

But so would being able to buy things like epic disc/con gloves or ioun stones with DC's, but you can't do that either. Although you can buy weapons better then anything obtainable in game, rings better then anything obtainable in game, armor better then anything obtainable in game, boots better then anything obtainable in game, shields better then anything obtainable in game, but not things that are actually normally obtainable in game for a reason that's literally unknown to me. If you want a +2 cha ioun stone go fuck yourself hope it fucking drops. Meanwhile we just give someone a ring with +3 uni saves and +3 to a stat (edit; check the dc requests archive they are in there).

Frankly I feel that buying things out of the +5 pool with DC's is a much more attractive option then tweaking the boss loot. Because it also encourages roleplay on both ends; getting the DC's and also getting the item made, as opposed to doing pirate/snowy 500 times. It would also let non-boss-runners gear.

Either of these things would really help with the gearing of players that arn't around hours every day or just don't have boss murdering builds.

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Last edited by Commie on Wed, Aug 10 2016, 23:32 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
#StraightOutaAvernus
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 19:45 PM 

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Commie wrote:
Meanwhile we just gave someone a ring with +3 uni saves and +3 to a stat.


Mad? :^)




On a serious note, I personally am gonna have to agree with Nav here Commie; what he's saying is that if we make less 'bad' stuff drop there'll ultimately be an increase in good stuff. Keeping in mind how much 'actually' bad stuff there is (I.e: +30 stat gloves for anything but Discipline and Concentration (+30 parry? Really?), +6 CON boots that don't have AC (lol), Rings of Regen +3 that have nothing else, Immunity rings for electricity that you'll basically use never, Trueforged weapons that don't have massive crits and have lower damage than war forged and are almost AB identical when mythalled, literally any suit of light armor whatsoever (especially padded), etc.); this will ultimately improve the flow of half decent items in the market, while also not over-inflating them for the people with lucky rolls.

Also, unrelated; but the Tome of Mystra needs to die because paying multiple millions for the equivalent of 4 scrolls is cancer.

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Roach
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 19:47 PM 

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#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:
Also, unrelated; but the Tome of Mystra needs to die because paying multiple millions for the equivalent of 4 scrolls is cancer.


You assume everyone can read scrolls.

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 19:52 PM 

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#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:
Commie wrote:
Meanwhile we just gave someone a ring with +3 uni saves and +3 to a stat.


Mad? :^)




On a serious note, I personally am gonna have to agree with Nav here Commie; what he's saying is that if we make less 'bad' stuff drop there'll ultimately be an increase in good stuff. Keeping in mind how much 'actually' bad stuff there is (I.e: +30 stat gloves for anything but Discipline and Concentration (+30 parry? Really?), +6 CON boots that don't have AC (lol), Rings of Regen +3 that have nothing else, Immunity rings for electricity that you'll basically use never, Trueforged weapons that don't have massive crits and have lower damage than war forged and are almost AB identical when mythalled, literally any suit of light armor whatsoever (especially padded), etc.); this will ultimately improve the flow of half decent items in the market, while also not over-inflating them for the people with lucky rolls.

Also, unrelated; but the Tome of Mystra needs to die because paying multiple millions for the equivalent of 4 scrolls is cancer.


I just think the loot system is the worst 'game' aspect of this game, and don't understand why it's so arbitrary and why stuff that nobody would ever use exists. Why is there an elemental resist buckler for example? Just do large and tower shields. It's a throw-away item.

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#StraightOutaAvernus
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 20:00 PM 

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Roach wrote:
#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:
Also, unrelated; but the Tome of Mystra needs to die because paying multiple millions for the equivalent of 4 scrolls is cancer.


You assume everyone can read scrolls.


Well, more directly, I meant there needed to be more options than the 'one' tome that drops about 2 times a year that's quasi-ironically never useful to mages despite being a holy book of Mystra. Apologies for the lacking clarity.

EDIT: Ninja'd by commie while I was posting.

That's the point Commie. Really, what needs to be done is to compile a list of stuff people actually will use.

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 20:05 PM 

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what do you feel about making shit from the +5 bin 'craftable' via dc's and rp?

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Guardian
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 20:11 PM 

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Commie wrote:
#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:
Commie wrote:
Meanwhile we just gave someone a ring with +3 uni saves and +3 to a stat.

I just think the loot system is the worst 'game' aspect of this game, and don't understand why it's so arbitrary and why stuff that nobody would ever use exists. Why is there an elemental resist buckler for example? Just do large and tower shields. It's a throw-away item.


"The way I see it, if you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain."

On a side note, the problem is not with the loot. Never was, is not and will never be. The problem is that the most people unfortunately do not think RP-wise, but build wise. It's as sad as it is common lately.

What if someone creates a character who is trained to fight with a light flail, light hammer or wears a buckler, because it fits the background of the character? Should they be punished because a handful of PBs can't be bothered with poking epic bosses 24/7 with uncertain loot for their fancy builds?

Again, sadness.

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 20:20 PM 

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you can use any weapon you want. my guy uses a flail.

but at some point the rubber meets the road and you are rolling numbers at someone. if he wins he decides what happens. and when you have 3/4 more ac and 3/4 more ab because you built and geared correctly, that matters. a ton.

some people manage to avoid pvp, and that's fine. i havn't been so lucky; one of the first things to happen to me here was a few invis people standing at the brog mountain leyline demanding anyone who ported in walk away or die, walking away meaning walk into a pack of frost giants. if you buffed they killed you because buffing is pvp consent.

so with stuff like that going on, with pvp tournys resulting in server defining stories, yeah having that extra push over the cliff matters.

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 20:21 PM 

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Commie wrote:
what do you feel about making shit from the +5 bin 'craftable' via dc's and rp?

That's how it already is. You can DC request any epic gear with RP.

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 20:22 PM 

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oh not to mention some irl weapons like flails or katanas actually suck compared to better irl weapons. so naturally the game reflects this.

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 20:23 PM 

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Naivatkal wrote:
Commie wrote:
what do you feel about making shit from the +5 bin 'craftable' via dc's and rp?

That's how it already is. You can DC request any epic gear with RP.


i was told by a dm this was specifically not the case with specific item modifiers and ioun stones.

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Guardian
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 20:37 PM 

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Commie wrote:
oh not to mention some irl weapons like flails or katanas actually suck compared to better irl weapons. so naturally the game reflects this.


Of course, I forgot about rl. I mean, naturally in the world where people are wearing two handed axes and swords together with pavesas (or tower shields, if you will) whilst cladded in full plate armor we must take rl facts into account. Silly me.

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MisterLich
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 20:54 PM 

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Can I DC request a Tome of Mystra equivalent, maybe renamed to a Tome of Anthraxus or some shit, if I provide neat RP towards it?

I, too, remember being told a long ass time ago that you can DC request epic gear that actually exists and drops, and it's not as expensive as unique, ultra powerful DC gear. I don't have a source for this but I thought remembered reading it somewhere once. Yes? No?

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 21:00 PM 

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most of my stance on gear and gearing was because I was told you could not rp/dc request some epic gear.

if this is wrong then im going to drop most if not all of my gear complaints.

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 23:07 PM 

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Need DM clarification on what can/can't (like the iouns, never even knew they existed or what they exactly do, stupid as that is). But I know a +5 Fort Cloak was requested once. And most DC shit has been better than epic loot, so seems a no brainer that you could do it.

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 23:30 PM 

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Naivatkal wrote:
Need DM clarification on what can/can't (like the iouns, never even knew they existed or what they exactly do, stupid as that is). But I know a +5 Fort Cloak was requested once. And most DC shit has been better than epic loot, so seems a no brainer that you could do it.


yeah i was told "its dumb but no you can't request some +5 things like gloves or iouns"

did this change? if it did and you can just dc request iouns then this is about to be me

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 23:30 PM 

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I have been told by other DMs I could not request +5 bin stuff for my own characters.

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MisterLich
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 10 2016, 23:48 PM 

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Damn, I wanted to DC request a tome of mystra.

Oh look mindblank, aaaaaand it's gone.

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 11 2016, 0:09 AM 

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This is my Armour.

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 11 2016, 0:44 AM 

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I can understand some things, but come on we really should allow a good number of things. After all, most DC gear is better than epics, so why the hell can't we let people use RP tokens to get epic loot?

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 11 2016, 1:40 AM 

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i am in complete agreement with you for perhaps the first time ever

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Thu, Aug 11 2016, 3:00 AM 

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Joined: 06 Jun 2014

Naivatkal wrote:
so why the hell can't we let people use RP tokens to get epic loot?


I would be okay with this being made possible.

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