AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

While I'm completely aware there's lore reasons that the rangers are traditionally a wilderness class and the lore behind them is an inability to wear armor (similar to druids); currently, rangers are incapable of using their signature feats in medium armor, despite their level 1 feats implying they should be capable of wearing it.

In the same vein that Druids should RPly be allowed to use the medium armor they've the proficiency for as long as it's made of natural materials (such as ironwood, crystal, or obsidian); I can't see any practical reason outside of this as to why a ranger shouldn't be allowed to use their abilities in armor that's tailored to them.

There's no balance nor lore that justifies having to have enough DEX that you could've taken the feats without the class (for better overall gains) anyway <_<

>Obligatory "Rangers don't need buffs" post incoming.

.. Rangers can wear whatever they want?.. They're not stuck with oaths like Druids are that they can't wear certain armors, hell they can wear heavy full plate if they wanted to. Unless that's not what you're asking?

Riley wrote:

.. Rangers can wear whatever they want?.. They're not stuck with oaths like Druids are that they can't wear certain armors, hell they can wear heavy full plate if they wanted to. Unless that's not what you're asking?

It's not. Like

Put chain armor on a ranger and they loose all their feat use. Why tho

You mean they have to wear cloth armour otherwise they loose their use of the two weapon feats?

walnutboy wrote:

You mean they have to wear cloth armour otherwise they loose their use of the two weapon feats?

Exactly. There's really no other significant 'boon' the class has; and it's way easier to, say, gear for STR and CON with 1 DEX item than it is to gear for 8+ DEX mod (which you have to do to stay within the general server meta).

This lets the class not have a 'no holds barred free dual wielding with 8 DEX' since you STILL can't wear plate armor; while still allowing it to have a role since it's otherwise way better to be a Dualwielding Weaponmaster (for the dual wielding) or a Druid (for the pets).

#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:

walnutboy wrote:

You mean they have to wear cloth armour otherwise they loose their use of the two weapon feats?

This lets the class not have a 'no holds barred free dual wielding with 8 DEX' since you STILL can't wear plate armor; while still allowing it to have a role since it's otherwise way better to be a Dualwielding Weaponmaster (for the dual wielding) or a Druid (for the pets).

Actually, there are some items with two weapon fighting and ambidexterity, if you use one then you can perform full dual wielding in full plate without having to have a 15 base DEX score. Rangers can also get a high level companion too, so that's a perk as well, plus the bonus damage and AB from bane of enemies and the raw favored enemies bonuses (which can be +2 AB and +2d6+6 damage for a L25 ranger, not too shabby).

Well, it kinda makes sense. Heavier armor inhibits your movement. Sooooo yeah.

I get your meaning, though. But a STR based ranged doesn't really need a boost with using two weapons.

As a reminder,

Rangers keep the lvl 9 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat in Medium and Heavy Armour. This is never lost and not offered on items (that I have seen).

I don't believe so. A message comes up on screen notifying the Player that ranger abilities have been disabled because of heavy armor. My ranger is set up for two-weapon fighting, and wearing anything heavier than leather makes two-weapon fighting useless, even with the items mentioned by Kobra. If my ranger is in his full plate, he's sword and board, and usually planned for, because his regular leather can't compete AC-wise with the epic stuff.

could you get epic leather?

I can now, since all the armor was equalized for AC, I'm just lazy.

Kudark wrote:

I don't believe so. A message comes up on screen notifying the Player that ranger abilities have been disabled because of heavy armor. My ranger is set up for two-weapon fighting, and wearing anything heavier than leather makes two-weapon fighting useless, even with the items mentioned by Kobra. If my ranger is in his full plate, he's sword and board, and usually planned for, because his regular leather can't compete AC-wise with the epic stuff.

What they mean is if you have one of the items giving Ambidex/Two weapon fighting, and wear plate and have 9 ranger levels, you will get that extra attack of Improved Two Weapon fighting. Kinda weird, but.. that's how it works.

Yeah. That.

Right now you can technically solve it with gloves of the balanced hands, but my thought was that it didn't really make a dual wielding ranger a better option than other dual wielding builds in its present state!

Pretty hard to top just about anything else using a Kukri and a pair of aforementioned gloves, due to external sources of higher damage -- especially a good DEX or STR WM

Not that that should be a balance point for damage, but I mean. If you're a ranger who has something as a favored enemy, in RP sense it'd be logical that it physically fights that creature better than most other combatants. Why keep other options better at it?

It still makes sense that Ambidex and TWF don't work in heavy armor while ITWF does. ITWF is just an extra attack, you don't need to be dexterous to swing again, you just won't be that good. However Ambidex you need to be for obvious reasons and TWF is reducing your penalty, which needs dexterity (something heavier armor negates), so I always figured that was why.

It does sorta make sense, yeah.

I wouldn't still be posting if someone didn't invoke Greater Thread Necromancy. Though, really the logic would follow the same could apply to norm dual wield in that case.

Ambidexterity is a trait that lets you use both hands equally well. I'm not sure how dexterity applies at all, unless you are doing something that requires it, like say picking a lock. TWF is just one's prof in using a weapon in either hand, which does not really need dex either i'd say, unless you are trying to write the first half of your name with one hand, while simultaneously writing the second half with the other hand. So i don't really feel like you NEED dexterity. Unless you are using a finesse weapon, which comes with a more dexterous fighting style. But if you are using say a Shortsword and a dagger, depending on how you fight, the dagger might just be there for the occasional stab while the sword keeps the other person's weapon busy. Does not take a lot of dex to fight with a one handed sword does it? Nor to stab someone in the gut with an offhand?

What has always made me kinda sad is how nwn feats for weapons work, while sword+dagger functions well and looks cool, it is effectively gimping yourself if you hope to be as good with both weapons given the feats needed. So it comes down to duel wield with two small weapons, rather than a med and a small. I had touched on this before though when i hoped we could have weapon feat clusters. So if you focus in Warhammers, you also get light hammer feats free. Battleaxe nexts you hand, great, and war axe. Though you would still need to respective prof to use them. Was also looking at weapon feat packs based on the PC, upbringing or training. As in, the Warrior Training feat would net focus feats in Spears, Crossbows and short swords or something. The Huntsmen would get Longbows, hand axes and daggers. The goal being to let people branch out to using the right tool for the task. Buuuut this is another topic i suppose.

So you know, if you don't want to use the gloves on a ranger, you can always take the two weapon fighting feat, since it has no dexterity requirement. That leaves you with TWF and IMPR TWF, full dual wielding with -4 on the offhand. Not great, but it can be workable in a pinch.

Rangers and Armor

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