Joined: 10 Nov 2015 Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
Call me nuts but considering DMs have said in threads before that Crossbows are currently innately weaker than bows, I think it'd be nice to throw these weapons a bone; since personally I think they're mechanically flavorful.
Rapid Shot is an extra feat tax that Crossbowmen arbitrarily pay for their goodies! Could this become just 'a thing' that can be mythalled on to them?
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Joined: 10 Nov 2015 Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
errrrr Sorry! Wrong feat in mind. Rapid Reload.
Completely different function but painfully similar names.
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Rapid Reload only gives you as many APR as a bow does, too. No extra APR like with Rapid Shot. Sucks.
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I'm thinking it would be cool for bolts to get some extras that arrows don't have, if they don't already. Maybe some extra damage to compensate, or a harder DC from on hits effects... I dunno.
Joined: 10 Nov 2015 Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
To be honest? Crossbows themselves aren't 'weak' -- they're technically better than bows, considering they have a wider critical threat range, and are therefore more effected by keen (which only they get in tier 5 variants), and improved critical.
The problem is that unlike bows, crossbows have the distinction of being literally worse at everything else. Like their thrown weapon cousins; no class really improves their performance, they can't use rapid shot, they have weaker ammunition options in game, they're heavier, they're 'waaay' less good in regards to base damage, and to top it off? They have the unique gift, unlike their thrown counterparts, of literally being better with dirty fighting unless you have rapid reload because you're stuck at 1 unhasted APR anyway.
What they need to make them useful is to mitigate the latter issue, and to give them goodies to compensate for the other parts. Definitely improving their ammo quality.
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As someone said, no class really focuses on the Xbow, but that in itself gives us the opportunity to make a simple secondary weapon that won't break the game, but will be worth while actually using. Maybe. It would be nice to see people pull out ranged weapons before reaching melee to take a few shots. Maybe a line is trying to hold a formation at a choke point and pulls a Xbow because it's easier to use. I kinda feel like shortbow should get this treatment in someway, but you cant really buff the shortbow because AA would get it then and take it to a new level.
Joined: 10 Nov 2015 Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
I am completely and shamelessly in agreement. Crossbow really begs to be the secondary where STR damage won't really be helpful or where more carryable ammo is more useful.
It doesn't need any huge buffs, or even to do something bows don't already do. It just needs a reason to be used -- and rapid reload as a free thing seems like a good step number one even if nothing else is done at all.
Also, I was referring to ammunition concerning damage Tormak. The strongest damage based bolt I have seen is weaker than the strongest arrow. Maybe the infamous 2d12 arrows are just circulated more though.
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Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Location: The Sky Above The Rain.
Crossbows are okay. Bolts, on the other hand, could use some love. Just look how many types of arrows we have and compare it to the number of bolts and bullets.
Also, I'd really much love to see xbows as a secondary choice of weapon for AA (aka - Arcane xbowman). Bows are as boring as scimitars and longswords. With all the focus on "let's make other spells more attractive so we don't see the good ol' threesome combination in fights all the time", give some lovin' to less attractive but not less cool weapons.
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Crossbows are okay. Bolts, on the other hand, could use some love. Just look how many types of arrows we have and compare it to the number of bolts and bullets.
I agree the Crossbow would be fine if it had some better and some variety of ammo.
Heavy Crossbow is my go-to Ranged Weapon for small size PC's. Heavy Crossbow is medium sized, unlike Longbow, so it can be wielded by small size characters and deals some good base damage.
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As for the weight of a heavy crossbow, a master bowyer can make a lightweight one. Yeah you don't get the enchantments the ones you find has but that option is there!
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ZoltanTheRed wrote:
The moment I see some good crossbow bolts in the mod is the moment I make a dwarven arbalestier.
Join the club, brah (I have one sitting in vault on mid-level. Do it, do it now, and we shoot stuff together with rusty bolts.)
Though there's never enough dwarven sharpshooters.
_________________ Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem* Alex - Life is adventure or nothing! Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex. ========= Obsidian (inactive)
Hrm... adding rapid reload to every crossbow is one solution. They still can't use rapid shot and have lesser bolts, so combined with slightly higher base damage and doubled critical hit range... seems a decent tradeoff?
Pretty sure piercing wouldn't work as the bolts base type is piercing and the two wouldn't stack.
This, basically. I'd like to see some bolts that are more on par with arrows, but I'm a greedy person, so...
Bolts are more mundane than the AA arrows. So i'd not suggest 2d12 Fire for example. Maybe 2d6 Physical 1d6 Elemental? I suggested 2d8 physical to emulate the simple mundane grab and go sidearm style i felt the weapon served. Though if you just had 2d8 i think you can mythal 1d6 onto it, so i guess the 2d6+1d6 avoids that.
2d8 + 1d10 is 3-26 17-20 x2 (Counting the Keen) 3d6 + 1d10 is 4-28 17-20 x2 (Counting the Keen) 2d12 + 1d8 is 3-32 20 x3 (Which won't get Keen)
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
Honestly, I feel like I've seen a lot of different bolts. It may be the answer, but I'm personally not sure if more diverse ammo is the answer to our woes. Crossbows, by design or lack thereof, just feel clunky and out of place compared to bows. To get more than 1 shot per round round(2 if hasted), you have to take a feat. That means they're generally not worth it unless you're setting yourself up to specialize in them. Bows, darts, shuriken, axes all are pick-up-and-go for the most part. I'd say a first step is either making them live up to that innate limit, or doing away with it.
I always thought it would be neat if Crossbows had a unique and innate "sniping" function, sort of like how Whip(as sorry an excuse for a weapon it is) has Disarm as a hallmark. Anyway, it would be something like after taking a few rounds to "Set up" and go prone, you get a large damage and/or critical chance increase. The drawback being that it would of course take a round or two to "get up" from the prone sniping position. Make them an assassin's and sharpshooter's weapon. If you wanna be some elven nancy Legolas flipping through the woods and firing off dozens of projectiles, go for bows. If you wanna be someone who gets the job done and is gone before anyone is the wiser, go crossbow.
Between something like that and the custom penetrating crossbow feat(damage all enemies in a line), a trusty sniper scout and his covering fire could become a valuable asset to any adventuring party.
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There is (was?) a Snipe custom feat made for Xbows, i think it let you take one shot with a bonus to AB or something, i don't remember, and the list is not on the forums anymore it seems. There was also a feat for Shield Wall, where each person with it on gave others in the aura +1 Dodge AC i think. There was a Shield Bash too, remember talking about how awesome that was, tell i figured out it was not as awesome as id thought.
Also, Dark, i'm suggesting the feat just be added to the Xbows for free, with that in mind, kinda makes them a bit more worth while, no?
Honestly, I feel like I've seen a lot of different bolts. It may be the answer, but I'm personally not sure if more diverse ammo is the answer to our woes.
While I'm happy to be wrong again, I'm unaware of this supposed variety of bolts, and I play a PC who uses crossbow when she's not using her crappy whip. In fact, I'm of the opinion that there's a wider variety of useful sling ammo than useful bolts. If anyone knows of useful bolts besides Flying Dwarven Fist, and Bolts of Dwarven Wrath, please post them.
Aside from that a signature feat/ability of some kind for crossbow that differentiates it from other ranged weapons is a wonderful idea.
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(I have one sitting in vault on mid-level. Do it, do it now, and we shoot stuff together with rusty bolts.)
