AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Barbarians got shafted 2-4 rounds

Was messing around and realised Amia's Barbarian rages are quite shorter then standard NWNs

Amia - 5 rounds + CON
Standard -7 rounds + CON
Standard greater rage (15 barb+) - 9 rounds + CON

Dunno if this was intended or not

I believe it was because of just how powerful Amias rages are, and that you have three powerful rages to actually chose from.

truth told though with the RDD changes barbarian [outside of terrifying rage] is simply lacking at all points, and RDDs dont even have to rage with a cooldown to get their buffs.

Amia's rage abilities are amazing and with terrifying rage on top of that barbarain is my favorite melee class; that may be why it has a shorter duration.

I don't recall where 5 came from. In 3.5 it's 3+CON.

Amia rages are not amazing. They are quite lack luster all around. The bonus health you receive is largely negligible and only based on barbarian levels rather then hit dice like a proper con boost would, unless you take mighty rage, then it gets bonkers. The damage isn't any more than fighter/wm or a rdd gets. The only thing worth while is terrifying rage, which is simply broken as fuck.

Top that shit off, the durations are short and have a 10 round cooldown between. Barbarians are garbage. Blood rage and divine favor will out do the entire class and you get to play something good (a caster) with better saves and utility, and actual rp relevance.

One of their rages can function as a free heal (if you time it right) and with an Epic DR build, even a WM has difficulty in taking them down.

Akhlys wrote:

Barbarians are garbage

Tell that to the Barbarian that tanked 10+ Arcanum Mages while 20 ppl died and then tanked an Uber modified Dragon while 10+ ppl died...

Tell that to certain Barbarian Girl that killed certain S+ biuld several times without depending on Terry Rage...

rafaelmacgyver wrote:

Akhlys wrote:

Barbarians are garbage

Tell that to the Barbarian that tanked 10+ Arcanum Mages while 20 ppl died and then tanked an Uber modified Dragon while 10+ ppl died...

Tell that to certain Barbarian Girl that killed certain S+ biuld several times without depending on Terry Rage...

Okay, who are they?

I can pretty much make a Barbarian 16/Bard 2/RDD 12 that will probably have optimized saves, super high ac and lots of strength. The only thing I can't do on that build is crit like a WM though so there's that and I can get all of those saves on a wm as well so really it's just a matter of personal preference on what you'd rather play.

Put your "RP Relevant Monk" up against Greta or Hall and see what happens. C'mon man. That's a silly statement and you are better than common flame tactics.

That Barbarian Girl I've mentioned is not Greta by the way.

Not that Greta is not Awesome too XD

You could go Barb/bard/PM and make a literal monster. Little effed on the lore. And I don't like tomake what sounds like a venomous post, but RP relevance is based on the players handling of the class not the class itself. You might find Barb boring, but there is a metric shit-ton of Barb lore out there. Barbs can become Animal fists as well.

Barb/PM/Bard... Yeah.. West had a very awesome powerfull one...

thunderbrush wrote:

Put your "RP Relevant Monk" up against Greta or Hall and see what happens. C'mon man. That's a silly statement and you are better than common flame tactics.

I made no claims about monk (unarmed monks are bad too, but don't have glaring defensive weak points like barbarians do) nor did I imply anything about myself. That being said, I'll fight them if that proves anything. Maiti may not win, but Soren would show how irrelevant 800 health with two-hander AC is. And hey, maybe Soren lost too, but he didn't just spend 40k gold on surviving a fight.

As a barbarian you have the ability to hit things and get angry. You have no pnp tools in addition to these things. You have to cross class or spend one of your limited feats to get heavy armor. You have to cross class to get spot, tumble, umd. Your rages are based on class levels so you need to dedicate yourself heavily to barbarian for them to be worth while (24). Your rages are temporary and leave you with a massive vulnerability when they're down. Imaging shifter if you only stayed in your form for 90 seconds then had to be a normal shitty human again for a minute before getting another form. If a barbarian is giving you trouble you may need to take a tactical assessment to find out how fucked up you are.

10% movement speed (their best feature)
miniscule damage reduction
great base health
following based on which rage:
1. 6 ab, 5 damage, 3 fort, 3 will, 48 health
2. 3 ab, 0 damage, 4 ac, 3 fort, 3 reflex, 3 will, 72 health
3. 1 attack, 0 ab, 12 damage, -4 ac, 3 fort, 24 health

if you go mighty rage, enjoy your sub 45 ab on a banishable race (siq will save btw)
if you go terrifying rage, enjoy everyone hating you and metagaming a mindblank
if you go thundering rage, enjoy an epic feat of zero benefit because 4.5 sonic damage is negated by a bunch of spells and items and fishing for 1s may be relevant if it wasnt stopped by mind blank

Versus

Fighter 10, Bard 2, RDD 18: 4 ab, 10 damage, 4 ac, will save, immunities to elements or negative, as well as the very important immunity to paralysis (freedom shadows this but if freedom gets removed this is a big deal), highest base health due to hd scaling and 6 con gain; plentiful bonus feats allowing energy resist or save feats

Fighter 12, WM 16, whatever 2: 3 ab, 6 damage, +2 threat range, n+1 critical modifier, good base health

Fighter 10, DD 18, whatever 2: 21 damage reduction, will save, immunity to sneak attacks (this is actually a huge benefit), great base health; plentiful bonus feats

the main difference though is that all of these do what barb does, but all the time
their power isnt shut off
would people jerk off epic dodge WMs if their epic dodge had a minute long cooldown or if they could only get their bonus ab and crits half of the time?
want to make barbarian viable, give mighty rage physical damage immunities of 25%, change thundering to magical, and remove the cooldown on rages

Mighty Rage barbs can get Epic DR III totaling up to -/14 DR. that's not minuscule.

it is when every time i make a threat range roll, it confirms

thunderbrush wrote:

Put your "RP Relevant Monk" up against Greta or Hall and see what happens. C'mon man. That's a silly statement and you are better than common flame tactics.

A shadowdancing monk really doesn't have any trouble with normal barbarians since they're mind immune. The only ones that don't dump into spellcraft for willsaves. One shadowdaze and barbarians are usually toast.

Really guys? This already became a "my cock is bigger" so quick?

This thread is EXACTLY why powerbuilders have no place on an RP SERVER

I don't even think this is that bad tbh Ama, but lmao that 16/2/12 build sounds hilarious, sadly it utilizes the borked RDD to augment the less than desirable barbarian. (I have no beef with RDD's power, I just think it makes other STRmans pale by comparison)

Oh wait LMAO you don't get heavy armor on that build.

Last edited by Opustus on Sat, Feb 11 2017, 3:35 AM, edited 1 time in total.

OpenTheRift: You can always grab it as a feat, silly! Should have plenty of room for it too as there aren't any prerequisites to meet.

So far as balance between the classes and hard mathematics is concerned, I think Akhlys makes very good points, whether or not it is pertinent to the RPly sensibilities of the server. Their numbers has but one important discrepancy: a vanilla-geared stock Barb24/Fighter4/Rogue2 buffs itself up to 25+4+4+6+14 = 53 AB with a single click on Standard Rage. It's good and can cut through many a steely defender, but alas on par with a stock WM and with less damage output (the barb has less, that is).

I like to think that the design ideals or principles behind the classes are for them to fill niches and roles in the party, which makes their playing rewarding while also reflecting their RP characteristics. My guess is that the design ideal behind Barbarian is to be a one-button full-on destroyer, which the current class accomplishes to represent splendidly. As such, in its current state Barbarian might be underperforming as compared to the basic WM and RDD builds, for example (Terrifying rage excluded, for which I've heard there's some withstanding agreement not to use in PvP?). To make the class more worthwhile in PvM, I don't see the harm in extending the base rage duration a wee bit; this would also enable the class in multiple-ability-dependent (MAD) builds. Akhlys' suggestions are sound in a balance sense, but I'd like to see some RP justification: "slap magic damage on", for one, strikes me as bland.

EDIT: Another reason to buff Barb is one presumed without analysis that people opt for strong builds (yes, RPers and builders both, a dichotomy which I still refuse to acknowledge and think is merely supposed), hence leaving the Barb class underrepresented by indirectly steering player choice away from it.

Magical damage as in damage increase like divine favor and battletide, such that it ignores any damage resistance.

I know, and it's a sound idea balance-wise, but I just find it bland; it could be more exciting. In your favour though, it's a pretty convenient fix.
EDIT: More exciting like each successful hit accruing energy to discharge in a single mighty Thunderclap upon the unsuspecting foes!

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

Really guys? This already became a "my cock is bigger" so quick?

Men, #Amiright?

PIGEON FLY BACK TO ME

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

Really guys? This already became a "my cock is bigger" so quick?

This is the internet.

Opustus wrote:

PIGEON FLY BACK TO ME

Only if you can get at least 5 people to measure up with us at the same time

Oof, maybe we should just stick to thinking about each other in long, lonely nights.

This thread has served its purpose.

Barbarians got shafted 2-4 rounds

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