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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 19:56 PM 

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Disclaimer: This is only a suggestion, and I am not going to war to get it approved. I think the idea has merit though.
----------------

There are people who play 1000000 characters, and there are others that play 1 and focus on that character. That is what I do (one main), because from experience, I found out that these characters end up being pillars for the server, pharos, characters people can identify easily.

A server I played on back in the days had a system in place to encourage players to stick to one character. Basically, everyone could select one of their characters at a time, and give them the "main character" status. These characters could go 10 levels higher than their side characters (from 30 to 40).

I think the concept has merit. Now, suddenly having characters going from 30 to 40 on Amia would be absolutely stupid. That system would thus need tweaking - and here's an example of how it could be;

- One character at a time can be selected to receive the "Main Character" status.
- That character can go ONE level higher than what they normally can achieve at the moment.
- At the cost of DCs, and only possible once every X months, a player can submit a request to change whose character has that status.


A character with an ECL of 1 would be able to reach 30, ECL 2 could get to 29, and those without ECL adjustment could reach 31. I do not think a single level would completely destroy the server balance, but I am however convinced it might help in having players stick to one character more often, therefore stabilizing the population a bit, allowing for characters to develop deeper bonds than if said characters just disappear once it hits lvl 30.

Thoughts?

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Last edited by Mushidoz on Wed, Oct 04 2017, 19:58 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Falling Spider
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 19:57 PM 

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Level 31 mages can take epic warding.

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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 19:59 PM 

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Falling Spider wrote:
Level 31 mages can take epic warding.


The spell could be adjusted, or just downright removed I am sure

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Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 20:06 PM 

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That would tumble over our whole balance system.

So afraid not.

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SamTheGiantSlayer
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 20:12 PM 

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Eh. I think that puts a bit of pressure on newer players to hurry up and pick a main instead of trying out concepts they may like to flesh out more than others. As for older players, I'm never a fan of putting more restrictions on how people play their game.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 20:20 PM 

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This is a nightmare for the entire balance of the server.

There is already a clear advantage of investing time in a main vs making 1000 characters. Mains usually get more power IC and are more readily called upon by other PCs for help.

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Gravemaskin
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 20:37 PM 

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The system of rewarding focusing on a single character is already in place, but instead of a mechanical advantage you get the ones Mav listed and more.

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Raua
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 20:58 PM 

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Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
That would tumble over our whole balance system.

So afraid not.

Maverick00053 wrote:
This is a nightmare for the entire balance of the server.

There is already a clear advantage of investing time in a main vs making 1000 characters. Mains usually get more power IC and are more readily called upon by other PCs for help.

Gravemaskin wrote:
The system of rewarding focusing on a single character is already in place, but instead of a mechanical advantage you get the ones Mav listed and more.

SamTheGiantSlayer wrote:
I'm never a fan of putting more restrictions on how people play their game.


These sum up my feelings very succinctly.

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 21:19 PM 

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Raua wrote:
Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
That would tumble over our whole balance system.

So afraid not.

Maverick00053 wrote:
This is a nightmare for the entire balance of the server.

There is already a clear advantage of investing time in a main vs making 1000 characters. Mains usually get more power IC and are more readily called upon by other PCs for help.

Gravemaskin wrote:
The system of rewarding focusing on a single character is already in place, but instead of a mechanical advantage you get the ones Mav listed and more.

SamTheGiantSlayer wrote:
I'm never a fan of putting more restrictions on how people play their game.


These sum up my feelings very succinctly.


+2

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LibrisMortis_666
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 21:22 PM 

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I agree with everyone else.

Also I think many people just like playing Alts. Of everyone who has an alt, one character is always focused on more heavily. Alts offer a wider range of RP 1 particular character can't achieve alone. Which is cool.

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yimmi
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 22:20 PM 

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Raua wrote:
Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
That would tumble over our whole balance system.

So afraid not.

Maverick00053 wrote:
This is a nightmare for the entire balance of the server.

There is already a clear advantage of investing time in a main vs making 1000 characters. Mains usually get more power IC and are more readily called upon by other PCs for help.

Gravemaskin wrote:
The system of rewarding focusing on a single character is already in place, but instead of a mechanical advantage you get the ones Mav listed and more.

SamTheGiantSlayer wrote:
I'm never a fan of putting more restrictions on how people play their game.


These sum up my feelings very succinctly.


+3
I don't like the idea, I think this doesn't let you "explore" which stlye or character you enjoy the most, and giving a mechanical advantage to focusing in just one limits the experience you can have on this server.

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NinjaClarinet
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 22:41 PM 



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I like the idea in theory, just not the mechanical implementation. Designating a main character should could provide some sort of cosmetic/RP/vanity benefit, but not a mechanical one. Encouraging people to focus on a primary character is a good thing, but the hows and whats are tricky.


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 22:49 PM 



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Yep. Again, I don't think the way tp go for the server is to restrict how people play. Every restriction will inadvertently make people leave. Playing more than one character can be difficult even currently, no need to put more restrictions in. And there is a reason (and it's good both IC and OOC) that people who play mostly one main are more important. Considering last time I named names, people were a bit dismayed by it (and it's their choice), but if you think of the main players of Amia... I'd wager most of those have one single main. Maybe they have alts, maybe they don't, but one character with the main attention. Players like that are more important, partly also because they show that they are reliable. If you always make alts (and I do this as well) your character will not get as high positions, likely, simply because characters don't put time into factions as much. On the other hand, a well played main can get their hands into almost every single faction on the server. I'd say the War Knights used to be a good example of this. They were in Bendir Dale so much, had certain connections to Wiltun, through Bendir (and general helping of pretty much everyone, as far as I observed) had influence in Winya, Kohl, Cordor... (I can only talk from experience, but I certainly know this for certain characters)

On the other hand, I'd even say a few alts are healthy for Amia. We have, maybe 100 to 150 active players. Currently, I'd guess that means 200-300 active characters. Now, 100 is a number where the server can seem pretty small. That means the really active... maybe 60, that log in almost every day would be seen in game regularly. And I'd find that sad. No new faces, just always the same, until a PC gets perma'd, which doesn't seem that common.

Also, in my experience, aspiring factions and PCs always have much more RP than an existing one, simply because they aren't as burnt out. It's not lasting, be ona a video game, in the long run, nothing will last. In 20 years, we won't be playing this. So let's make it as fun now, rather than focusing on restricting people for sustainability.


I think it should be 100% player choice whether you want to have lots of alts or not. Also, you even now have a mechanical benefit from having a single main. DC requests. If I request something and immediately make a new character, I'll have much less use out of than I do if I had still played the first character.


 
      
Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 04 2017, 23:41 PM 

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If a +1 level idea isn't okay, I am however certain there could be ways to implement "incentives" to specific characters judged as main to help encourage players to focus on one rather than create their 100th side dungeon runner. A tiny discount on DC requests maybe?

I honestly just think there are way too many alts and not enough mains. This "explore what you like" is far gone after people are at their 50th side character, sorry.

Also, to debunk some of what has been said -- No, having ONE main does not make you gain more DC. In fact, I would argue that having one alt character for every "hot faction of the moment" is likely to give you more than sticking to one character. That's a logical, perfectly explainable phenomenon, but that's also an incentive to create alts rather than being stable and sticking to just 1 character.

P.S. In the one chance that such a system were implemented, I would be perfectly fine with being barred from it and not benefitting from it (otherwise the suggestion I make here would seem very partial, as Saya is very much a "main character"). I just want more incentives for people to start sticking to one character, even if it's minor.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 0:03 AM 



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I never meant you gain more DCs, I meant you gain more -from- said DCs. A DC item/skill/whatever is a single character thing. My other characters don't gain anything.

Also, why are 50 characters a problem? Just because it's not your favorite playstyle, why should others change to fit yours? (That's a thing that goes for all your suggestions about restricting how people play) I play a lot differently than you. We do different things on the server. So why are you saying my way to play is wrong? (And yes, I am getting slightly annoyed, because your suggestions pretty much would completely drive me away from this server. Evil is the way I deal with shitheads. I can't just go out and be an asshole to people irl, so I do it on here (at least IC). I like to solo for exactly that reason. I like having multiple characters because I love playing around with builds. Hell, there's a lot of fun in crunching numbers for builds, but it's a complete waste of time if you never realize them.

Please prove to me in what fucking way I am detrimental to the server, and why you are a benefit. Until then, all your arguments are invalid. We are two different people, judging by how you play and all, I think we play on here for two different reasons. Hell, for the server I would find ideal, I might want to have some things being different. Like having slightly more lax PvP rules, where you don't have to be afraid of a ban, if you just do a single normal istance of PvP, if the opponent is salty. But I know those are things that are pretty internal to the server, and I'll never have a chance to change them. But evil, alts and the ability to solo are thigs like that as well. We have a forum dedicated to, for a large part, alt-making. These are things that are fun for a large amount of people, and you want to forbid it for them. And your suggestion would not likely get us (or you, since I'd leave with those changes) any new players.

Alts being not counted as hard are things on other servers. Restrictions on evil is prevalent on other servers. The ability to not solo is on many other servers. I'd argue that these are things that make Amia Amia. If we turned into a copy of exactly Arelith, or PotM, or EFU, or whatever other servers are around, we're not going to surpass them. At best we'll walk in their shadow constantly. The way we are now (and I'm not saying we shouldn't change at all, just not turn into copies of other servers) we're providing a somewhat unique server. People who like this server, might not like others, and vice versa. So why should we be less unique?


 
      
Raua
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 0:04 AM 

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Mushidoz wrote:
I honestly just think there are way too many alts and not enough mains. This "explore what you like" is far gone after people are at their 50th side character, sorry.


SamTheGiantSlayer wrote:
Eh. I think that puts a bit of pressure on newer players to hurry up and pick a main instead of trying out concepts they may like to flesh out more than others. As for older players, I'm never a fan of putting more restrictions on how people play their game.
(re-qft)

I'm sorry, but this seems Idea too much like micromanaging how people should play. So long as people are consistent with the setting in terms of lore, and they abide by the no direct contact/conflict of interest (i.e. playing both sides of an argument) rules we have in place, there should be no other restrictions. That is the only concern, not how many one may chose to play. There are already benefits to having only one character, or focusing on a single character for a period of time, as has already been stated in this thread. It is not "The best" way to play, and neither is having X amount of alts, they are both perfectly valid ways to play here. It's all about what the player finds enjoyable and I am not okay with telling people how they can have fun, or "encouraging them to have fun in a way I like better," That's not my place to say.

Perhaps there's drama, perhaps a character ceases to be fun, perhaps a character, while fun, can be boring to play constantly and the player needs a break from them, or perhaps a character has simply outlived their purpose, what ever the reason someone may chose to pick up an alt, it is ultimately their choice, and they are well within their rights to do so.

This idea is a hard pass from me, Sorry.

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Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 0:39 AM 

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It's not limiting people from playing on several alts, it's just a mechanical incentive to pick one character to focus the most on.

I disagree though that picking a main has a guaranteed advantage over alts, such as influence. It's true more often than not though, and you just have to be persistent!

That said I disagree there's no incentive to pick a main character. You have DC's, and you can pick one character to focus them on, or spread them. Lye, at this point, has 3 DC custom items, and I am planning to add more.

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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 0:43 AM 

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Raua wrote:
Perhaps there's drama, perhaps a character ceases to be fun, perhaps a character, while fun, can be boring to play constantly and the player needs a break from them, or perhaps a character has simply outlived their purpose, what ever the reason someone may chose to pick up an alt, it is ultimately their choice, and they are well within their rights to do so.


Mushidoz wrote:
Disclaimer: This is only a suggestion, and I am not going to war to get it approved. I think the idea has merit though.

- One character at a time can be selected to receive the "Main Character" status.
- removed.
- At the cost of DCs, and only possible once every X months, a player can submit a request to change whose character has that status.


Nothing would prevent the alt spammers to decide one of their currently played alt character is their main. Nothing would prevent them from changing the "Main Character" status thing and move it to their new main character after X months have passed. This wouldn't restrict how people play, this would encourage players to MAYBE stick to their alts a tiny bit longer (and -that- is OBJECTIVELY a good thing for a persistant roleplay server when there is stability in factions roster) or perhaps even decide and settle on one of them.

As to Robbi's comment.. you sir, need to calm down <.<

Edit:
Shadowfiend wrote:
That said I disagree there's no incentive to pick a main character. You have DC's, and you can pick one character to focus them on, or spread them. Lye, at this point, has 3 DC custom items, and I am planning to add more.


I don't say there's no incentive, I say there should be more. You could say that those who create 10000000 alts are happy to have DCs to request special characters.. that they'll play 2 months and move on from. Said character will then produce DCs, which will be re-used for another alt.. and so on and so on. With the "system" I suggest, at least it would -maybe- encourage players to play these alts maybe 2 more months..? At least then the interactions with these characters are more meaningful.

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Raua
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 0:53 AM 

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Mushidoz wrote:
- At the cost of DCs,


This is a direct penalty to playing more than one character, and i am staunchly against it. There is no reason a player should be penalized because they personally chose not to keep to a specific concept.

Raua wrote:
It [Only having 1 main] is not "The best" way to play, and neither is having X amount of alts, they are both perfectly valid ways to play here. It's all about what the player finds enjoyable and I am not okay with telling people how they can have fun, or "encouraging them to have fun in a way I like better," That's not my place to say.


Imo, I see no reason to give special perks to a specific playstyle, (in this case, being 1 PC 'main' per player) That's objectively unfair.

I'm sorry, but you've yet to present me with a reason to think differently.

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SamTheGiantSlayer
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 0:54 AM 

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Mushidoz wrote:
Nothing would prevent them from changing the "Main Character" status thing and move it to their new main character after X months have passed.


You did mention that your ideal system would entail people paying DCs to be able to change the status of their "Main Character" after however much time has passed. I consider that similar to Battle.net's system of making you pay 10-15 dollars to change your battletag after the first one. It's kind of unfair, in my opinion, to put a quality-of-life option behind a DC gate - especially for newer folks - which is already a problem on Amia that we've been steadily fixing for years now.

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LibrisMortis_666
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 1:04 AM 

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Here's my 2 cents on why I plat alts.

- I like to play with a wide group of individuals. I've spent the majority of my time on Amia playing Evil and now I'm trying out some Good. However, I always have a neutral character. Evil on Amia has a bad reputation for how things go. I find it fun to get involved with unrelated events to my Evil or Good character, with my neutral. I can do more RP. When all my Evil or Good buddies log off, I can switch to my Neutral and RP with anyone without restrictions.

- I like to make builds. It's what I do. I leveled a Shifter from 1 to 30 with DCs and hunting because I wanted to test the changes. This shifter has all forms. Do people agree I should make a build to test things? Nope. But I did it.

- I don't believe in mechanical advantages. That's why I spend my DCs on levels and not Armour / Weapons / e.t.c other people can't get without DCs. I don't request special abilities and or scripted spells (not that I could for 90% of my time here). I don't mind if others do. It's just me.

- Lastly, alts are fun to me. I've spent a year focusing primarily on my Palemaster in Tarkuul. 90% of the time I sat, in Tarkuul, alone. I wait on DMs to approve actions. Alts were the only way I'd have continued playing because of how much RP I was getting (or lack of).

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 2:27 AM 



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Putting any benfit on one playstyle penalizes the other. Or would it be fair if I say all characters where irl gender fits IG gender should get 100 free DCs, just because it will be very difficult for people to play the opposite gender? It indirectly penalizes people who play the non-irl gender. And when the penalty is one level (which makes a really big difference, in some cases), you're penalizing the people who play alts. PvP is a thing the server is balanced for. And one level difference makes that balance really difficult.

How people play is, and should be their choice. How would you feel if I started saying all fey characters should be discontinued, and that they should not get any DM attention, simply because they are such a niche thing? Fey and feytouched should be strictly DM played characters, because fey characters are so vastly difficult from the rest of the server.


And no, I'm not going to calm down, when you consistently try to kill my playstyle, claiming that I am 'detrimental to the server'. You know what is detrimental to the server? People wanting to police RP. You can argue that is the job of a DM, but it certainly is not the job of another player. When you want me to play a certain way I don't like, why don't you leave?

You know what? You're breaking a server rule right now:

The Server Rules wrote:
Be considerate of the role-playing mood of others.


The Server Rules wrote:
You cannot expect people to be good roleplayers, or your kind of roleplayer.


The Server Rules wrote:
You can expect that players come here to have fun, and not to spoil your fun.



And the best of them all:

The Server Rules wrote:
Proper names only, using proper capitalisation and minimal punctuation limited to apostrophes and dashes.


 
      
Raua
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 2:43 AM 

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Robbi, I'm going to ask you very politely to cool it. Personal attacks are unacceptable, unnecessary and unproductive. Just because Mushidoz is saying something that you don't like does not give you the right to behave like that.

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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 2:52 AM 

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As I said, this is only a suggestion. The iteration I suggested was just that, a suggestion. The core idea is to encourage players to stick to one character longer so that people can develop stronger bonds / relationship with them. That's improving the server's quality of roleplay, in my opinion, at the cost of maybe, what, 1 DC discount on the requests they make with a specific/selected character? It wouldn't break the server, it would reward dedication, would up the level of roleplay overall on the server (since players playing the same character for years tend to know their character better AND have events shaping their personality/backgrounds, they have stories with other players/characters) and could help encourage stability (pretty good for factions, pretty good for keeping a server alive).

As to the comment on Sam's concern about the DC cost.. I suggested DC cost just to limit the number of requests. It doesn't have to cost anything, since there's already a timer cooldown, and quite honestly, if the only downside to not having your character marked as "Main" is that your requested items cost you the same DC they cost you -right now-, I don't think it is that much of a big deal. If, for example, a discount of 1 DC (with the caveat that your requests cannot cost 0) is what gives the "Main Character" status, then you will save some DC in the end... but you would have gotten even more than that from just switching on an alt and go to where your main perhaps can't (in the "hot factions" of the moment). If a new player joins the server, "tries" 100000 characters before settling on one and deciding that's the one, knowing that's the character they want to invest DC on, nothing prevents them from deciding that character is their "Main" when they are decided and want to request DC stuff.. which is what the status gives.. The worst that can happen is that everyone ends up saving a couple of DCs at some point.

----
I'm not going to comment on the outburst, and rather let the forum moderators deal with it..

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 3:18 AM 

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Not every one makes requests.

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yimmi
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 3:36 AM 

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I still don't think its a good idea. It goes to benefit one play style over the other. And IDK, personally I've had a lot of character, maybe not 50+ as you say, but I'm still learning about them, making mistakes and trying new ones. People are different at that so yeah, you can explore what you want doing it the number of times it takes you and it is as valid as knowing it since the first time you made your character, sorry.

I think the suggestion, as some people mentioned before, is practically a way to micromanage how you play here. You could say "it's just a benefit to play this or that way", but that on the other side makes you want/need to play that way to get the benefit.
If you start giving privileges to a certain way of playing, it means that you find it better than the rest so it must be rewarded or you find that is more challenging and it deserves an extra reward to encourage people to try it, otherwise why give a benefit if it's exactly the same?

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Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 05 2017, 6:25 AM 

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Well, as said before, no matter who likes this idea or not, it already cannot be done because it would mess up our whole server balance.

So I am afraid the concept is a no, no matter if it is liked or not.

I am not trying to be the big bad meany here, but it simply is not possible without redoing the whole server, which we realistically simply can't.

So you are welcome for other suggestions, but increasing the level cap, won't happen for above mentioned reasons.

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