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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 18 2018, 0:11 AM 

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Location: Southern Florida

Let's be honest. The builds in which Terrifying Rage are meant to be good are bad. Currently Barbarian doesn't have any special edge that allows it to do anything unique. It is, in literally all cases, outdone by someone with more fighter levels because they have the freedom to take additional feats for higher saving throws, attack bonus, and armor class. The only purpose the class currently serves now is to be an extra DPS buff for weapon master builds in groups, and that is a niche role people do not like building. It's not very fun to play because it can't solo anything.

Terrifying Rage is barbarian's special sauce. It is a capstone ability that requires an epic feat to take.

Currently the formula is designed so that most useful barbarian builds cannot break past the mid 20's, and the builds that can are not very good at all. After some examination though, I do think this formula is the best possible outcome of terrifying rage for balancing but I think there is something that can be done to further improve the benefit of the ability to make it worth taking as an entire epic feat.

My answer? A debuff that comes with the feat.

Part 1: Saveless penalty. -2 ab, -2 ac, -2 to all skills - no immunity
Part 2: Save vs penalty, this will override the penalty above. -3 ab, -3 ac, -5 to all skills, 50% spell failure - mind immunity negates

This would allow terrifying rage to do something even if the target makes the save, considering the feat is nearly supernatural levels of intimidation and is still an epic feat, but on a failed save the effects are far more debilitating. I also think that the spell failure is far from unreasonable, considering most casters are not going to fail it anyway except on a 1, and mind immunity will save you with no save.

I also think the duration of terrifying rage should be modified so that it is not totally one sided on an off chance one, but still viable and useful. The fear effect should last 2 rounds so that the target is indeed under the effects of fear but the target can recover. I also believe that the debuff should last 4 rounds, however while the debuff is in effect the target is immune to the fear effect, meaning that they cannot be shuffled in and out until they fail a save because they are currently already under the effects of terrifying rage and can't be affected by it again until the duration of the debuff expires.

In order to further incentivise taking the intimidate feats (and making them worth having at all really), the duration of the fear effect should be increased by 1 round per focus. So a barbarian with skill focus and epic skill focus would have a duration matching his debuff duration.

Edit: I also think that every 2 epic barbarian levels possessed should increase the DC of terrifying rage by +1 in order to actually give incentive to taking epic levels in the class instead of stopping at level 16. The usual level 26 barbarian builds would get +3 to their DC as a result and if someone disliked themselves enough to go 30 barbarian they would get a hefty +5 to their DC for their trouble.

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Gerald Edmund
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freaxxshow1338
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 18 2018, 12:42 PM 

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Joined: 24 Jan 2017
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I dont have a terri rage barb and id say fucking pump up the saveable penaltys.

Only spellfailure id say maybe rather 30%? Like Taunt?

50% seems a bit crazy to me.

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Peraga Bundly - My skin is smothering me, mirrors start to whisper, shadows start to sing.

Valora - We are the ever singing, ever dancing shit of the world.


 
      
bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 18 2018, 13:07 PM 

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Most casters aren't going to fail will save DCs outside of ridiculous ranges to be fair, it's a primary save for them

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DC taxation is theft!


 
      
freaxxshow1338
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 18 2018, 18:58 PM 

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Still I don't think it matters too much since 30% will throw them off-balance - so to speak - so much that they will struggle hard. 50% just sounds too big of a number and will meet harder resistance.

More a matter of selling it to people.

But like I said on Discord, you're the PvP/Building Pro, I won't argue too much.

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Olivia Sykes - Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone.

Peraga Bundly - My skin is smothering me, mirrors start to whisper, shadows start to sing.

Valora - We are the ever singing, ever dancing shit of the world.


 
      
bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 18 2018, 20:08 PM 

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30 is reasonable too, I'm not entirely cemented to any one number.

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Gerald Edmund
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DC taxation is theft!


 
      
Gravemaskin
 
PostPosted: Fri, Nov 23 2018, 18:01 PM 

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Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls

Terrifying rage isn't the barb rage that should get a buff, if any of them are, except maybe changing the fear duration to 4 rounds instead of 1d3 so it's consistent with the other fear-based spells and effects on Amia same as I said in my posts the last time this was brought up for discussion. (Also take a look there because I go over some of the DC potential and if an "average" barb build gets mid 20 terrifying rage DC, then they are either picking no barb levels or doing something wrong. 24 level barb with 33 intimidate, both focus feats and 16 base con gets DC 36)

Barbarians as a class already get a ton of stuff which makes them on average have more HP, AB, Damage, and AC than any other melee based class if you build them that way, with the exception of Dragon Disciple, with the downside of being feat starved.

The fact that terrifying rage was fixed so that it can't be exploited by running around the edge of the aura to spam re-rolls made it more balanced, not useless. It's still one of the best utility feats to grab for any melee class.

I mean for the penalty of -4 dodge AC, a level 24 barbarian gets +12 damage, +3 fort, 24 HP, 50% movementspeed bonus (doesn't stack with haste) and 1 attack per round (STACKS with haste, made at full AB same as haste). That extra attack alone puts them above just about any other melee based class, and if that isn't your cup of tea then you have the standard rage which gives +6 AB, +4 damage, +3 will and fort or the unyielding one which gives you +6 regen, +4 Dodge AC, +3 all saves, 72 temp HP and +3 AB. That +3 AB bonus is the same amount of AB as a level 14 WM gets btw so you get more AC, saves and HP than a WM but with less powerful crits OR you can go with the ferocity rage, get 3 less ab & 4 less AC than them but more damage, higher fort to save against dev, natural movementspeed that doesn't end when your haste pot does, and 1 extra attack per round made at FULL AB. That extra attack per round at full AB means that you can potentially out damage a WM while retaining the flexability to pick the best rage for your build and the situation you are in.

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