AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - OOC: Concerning speaking Drow via word replacement.

This is a discussion on the best way to speak Drow.

Here's what my experience thus far on Amia has been, and well, most other servers over the past 8~ years that have had Drow on it:

"How dare dos!"

Well the idea is just replacing an english word with anything you know in Drow that appears to be a synonym. Not really how other languages work but is that really how most people like to go about it, or do people do this -just because- this is what everyone else/the general drow community has done? I think it is the latter, to show that they know how to 'RP' as a Drow. (Personal opinion: Language is one of the least needed abilities to roleplay Drow. Their actions speak for themselves.)

I don't really like that (amazing, another personal opinion), nor do I appreciate having to head to an online translator for an apparent 'full sentence'.

What seems OK to see are phrases such as when you go to another country: ie. Bella dos. Really as a Drow you would assume everyone else can speak in full sentences as well as little Drow phrases.

That brings us to the conclusion to just use simple English and just use a bracketed [Drow] when near others that may not speak Drow... much like Draconic speakers and/or any other language is done.

Feel free to be against this 100%.

I have Di'es speak pure English and assume it's IC drow. I'll type "Ul'yath'tallar" or "High Priestess" depending on company.

I highly dislike people who attempt to speak in Drow or Elven. Its stupid, and some what metagamish since you know those around you whom are Drow can't understand you because their player doesn't.

Furthermore, people whom speak "Drow" probably aren't speaking Drow at all, but using some silly translator they found online that just produces gibberish. Given their is no official printed alphabet of Drow available, and only a list of translated common phrases, it only makes you look the fool.

This is probably the third time I've seen this topic hashed out- without a solution.

The bottom line is, you can't make a player stop using the words because you don't like it anymore than another player could make you use them because they prefer it.

Just stick to the style of RP you enjoy and let others stick the theirs- most drow will provide a translation in a tell anyhow if their sentence gets out of hand or upon request. Having another post with everyone's opinion on the matter is only going to clutter up the forums and upset people.

Mine just doesn't bother talking with most others outside his own house (Well, only two in it so far...) because of that. Though that's partially in his character.

Even if this is the third time (with no solution, well, understandable because not everyone reads the forums!), talking about it might still help because people might not feel pressured to throw in random Drow phrases to feel like a real Drow when playing. Mine won't... apart from a few curse words (phrases).

Just interested to see that a few others, at least, feel the same way. Pretty much agree 100% with what Selvec noted.

As long as people are not typing massive lines of text that I as a player cannot understand then I do not care in the slightest if others toss in some "drow" words or only write in plain English.

Titles and the like being my only exception as to the exclusive usage of the drow words.

There is a search engine in the top of the forum to look up topics just like this to see opinions on it. If you want current opinions that's cool, too! Just letting you know. My opinion is that it doesn't matter much either way. I'm not a fan of whole sentences in drow/elven, but as long as the person includes the translation it is cool and (if done well) can add more elements of immersing yourself in a different culture as a player.

What, again???

Forum searches are your friend and mine... I'll just file this under "You don't RP like i do, so you're doing it wrong". This whole nit picking on drow is getting really old, let people play how they like.

But on the other hand I suppose it's not as annoying to have to figure out what (Random prefix)Tel'Quessir is being refered to. Maybe it's all elves that are the problem, ban all elves!!! Seriously, complaining about syntax and other peoples immersion? Really?

I think the real problem is one of the OP speciofically not communicating with the players he attempts to interact with. There has never been a time when either myself or others that play drow have not been exeptionally polite and understanding when asked about the conventions and wording we use. If you communicate with other players, they are usually just as willing to work with you as you are with them. If something bothers you so much you need to post it, you should have sent a tell to the players involved, they would have been receptive, as they're here to have fun too. But instead you obviously didn't and thereby made everyone who does the thing you dislike look like an ass. All because a particular player didn't want to ask for information or work out what bothered them.

Meh... Sorry about the rant, but it's just as annoying to read posts like this when most players will RP like you want if you just ask.

Ive just drown acustomed to mixing english and drow, so much so i make mental notes not to speak like it in day to day lol. I know not everyone knows every word, i'm not an exception so i use both as needed. I say something u dont understand i'll always respond to a tell asking what i said without any grief

Actually, as Ascalon I use Draconic words often in RP, specifically when it deals with speaking in any other language outside of Draconic. IC mindset is it is a show of his belief that Draconic is superior to any other language as much as it is for using words he is more familiar with that do not translate well. OOC I feel it gives a certain depth to the setting and kudos to those that wish to do so for themselves.

Way I see it is if people want to know what what he says means, they need only send a tell saying: "I speak Draconic, what does it mean?" and I will oblige swiftly, that or, so long as their character speaks the Draconic language, they can enjoy using the url provided in my bio.

It's RP flavor. Use it or don't.

/thread

When I started I used the drow words myself.

However, after a while I noticed that it didn't add to RP quality, in some cases even the opposite, and dropped it.

Ultimately this all comes down to staff's call as we can't really force others to RP or not RP a certain way.

Reason I say "staff's call" is thus:
The only way this will be cleared up once and for all is for staff to change their mind on enforcing the ~English Only~ rule and actually qualifying wether speaking your character's native tongue style of RP violates this rule as opposed to "[language] blah blah blah" style of RP. Chances are high though that they wouldn't make a ruling at all based upon their stance of not forcing people to all play the same way.

Why does it matter?

Gondor wrote:

Why does it matter?

Doesn't really is the point I am making, then again sarcasm and othe nuances can be lost on the Internet. OP asked for Opinions on a topic that usually ends in a "who is right who is wrong" argument. By posting my previous statement it is my hope that the OP's debate will continue on as it has been and not degrade at all.

Depends if you speak drow or common, me thinks.

(drow) How dare dos -> looks silly.
(common) How dare dos -> flavour

When my elves speak common I throw in some elven words too for flavour, making them the haughty elves they are.

Opinion dance?! Let's tango!

I'd wager a lot of it is simply heritage. It's been done this way, other players see it done that way, it gets assimilated in, continues the heritage.

- I don't understand the word choices for mixing Drow in English/Common. Drow are intelligent. Of all the words they lapse back into their native language, it's "you"? Not big, complex words that they would feel better expressed in their native tongue? Even the psychology of it is weird to me, that they would single out denoting someone else (when Drow are inherently self-centered) by the act and in a way, draw importance to it through the difference. I understand it if there is some cultural significance, like speaking in full Common, but always referring to an Elf as a Darthiir, much like how Elves call Drow Dhaerow.

- That said, I think that full on switches back and forth are great.
e.g. "(Drow) I swear I will tear out its still-beating heart, if... *Draws a breath and speaks in Common.* Remove yourself from my presence, surfacer."

I like it even better when characters speak their native language to each other even when they are among mixed races/languages because the whole deal with a native language is that it is your first and best know, almost certainly the one you are most comfortable speaking.

- Titles are typically fair game regardless of what language the character is speaking. Although I often try to use full English while my character is speaking full Drow, sometimes it's just more appropriate to say Yath'abban or Ilharess because both are iconic and less awkward than saying "Matron Mother" or "Agent of the Arach-Tinilith". (Sorry, "Temple of Lolth". See what I did there?!) Ties into the cultural significance part. A Matron could theoretically be any female ruler or head of house, but to use Ilharess is to immediately reference that the Matron in question is absolutely Drow, is absolutely the leader of the house, and probably also a Yathrin - although not necessarily the latter. Especially in Drow society, connotation and subtext means a great deal, especially to not making a wrong assumption, and since the Players are not Drow and aren't raised in this society of layered etiquette, we can use all the help we can get with the immersion there.

- Other than titles or certain terms of cultural significance, I find a bit jarring to read Drow words in what is assumed to already be Drow speech. I wince in good humor, but I'm never going to berate someone for doing it. People do plenty of stuff I find weird, but it's their style, their preference.

Typing in a Shakespearian manner is always more entertaining.

The general impression I've got on this particular topic is simple: I don't like doing it... but each of their own. I go out of my way to try and "accent" my orcs, but I'll be cutting that away. Its just too painful to read.

With my Hin Toby, I try to have them speak phonetically. But that is more a "hey look, a Hin that grew up in Hin society!" as Hin the language is very rough around the edges and somewhat ugly to say. Just enough to it to get a point across, not much unlike Undercommon.

Currently playing a druid that knows shate Common but excellent Druidic, and Rashemi and passable Sylvan. I use a lot of

"You are nec...*Seems to try to think of the Common word and lapses into Rashemi* [Rashe] Necromancer? [Common] Undead-maker? Dya... leave forest. Bant."

As well as simply trying to communicate better through her fellow druids and people that speak Sylvan or Rashemi. She also tends to use Rashemi words for things. "Druit" "Druitski" "Nyetsk" "Dya" "Wychlaran".

When speaking languages she knows she speaks normally, when speaking common it's very broken and dotted with concepts, and reflexive words like "Yes" and "No" in her language instead of common. However, with my drow, I assume when she speaks in the Underdark she is speaking drow, dammit, and wouldn't lapse into her own language while speaking it. Typing it in pure English works fine, with titles in Drow or English as the company needs it. As long as you know what she's saying, I don't see a reason to care.

I meant to post a few days ago but I haven't really been at home. This was mainly in regards to Bravo21's post. However, since I see people have discussed what I meant.

Wow, some people took this thread the wrong way.

The intention wasn't to disrespect any people's roleplaying directive but to merely discuss with the forum how they use the Drow language in their playing and if they use one such way in particular.

As in, did they originally start that because that's what others were doing or in their opinion do they feel that is merely the best way to speak Drow (Or any other language other than common) when roleplaying.

In Bravo's defense, I think he was responding to:

__Steley wrote:

I don't really like that...

and

That brings us to the conclusion to just use simple English...

But really, I think he was responding to:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I highly dislike people who...

Its stupid, and metagamish...

...it only makes you look the fool.

Further, he may have been responding to:

__Steley wrote:

Pretty much agree 100% with what Selvec noted.

Not trying to do that in a rude way, just pointing out that it wouldn't be unreasonable for someones feelings to have been hurt or for someone to have felt attacked. Hence why rehashing this, knowing nothing will change and people can be alienated by it, seemed to me a poor choice.

But for the sake of it, I will say that I began doing it because I found books in the library with drow words in them. Obviously, those books were not intended for characters IC that already speak drow. They were intended for the player to utilize IC. It seemed appropriate, exotic, and most importantly for me, added flavor.

Let me clarify.

I have no issue with people adding words in here and there. Thats fine. I have issue with people who speak Drow or any language in full sentences without offering a translation. It's was more common a year or two ago, but it's still around now.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Let me clarify.

I have no issue with people adding words in here and there. Thats fine. I have issue with people who speak Drow or any language in full sentences without offering a translation. It's was more common a year or two ago, but it's still around now.

But if you're a drow, in Edonil, you're speaking Drow by default unless you denote [UC] [Goblin] [Common]...at least my char is... sooo... what's up with that?

CookieMonster wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Let me clarify.

I have no issue with people adding words in here and there. Thats fine. I have issue with people who speak Drow or any language in full sentences without offering a translation. It's was more common a year or two ago, but it's still around now.

But if you're a drow, in Edonil, you're speaking Drow by default unless you denote [UC] [Goblin] [Common]...at least my char is... sooo... what's up with that?

Example:
Nindol zhah waele. Usstan inbal nau ul'hyrr ele F'sarn kl'aein draeval ulu xun nindol.

Nindol type d' plynnithus zhah naut quarthes, ol zhah barely tangis' ilythiiri.

I equate the question to my real life, in which I work with a lot of Mexicans. (That's not politically incorrect, they actually literally are descended from immigrants from Mexico.)

Many of them grew up speaking English as a second language, and their speech is peppered with bits from their native tongue, even when addressing native English speakers (like me). They speak entire sentences in English, with occasional Spanish words - they refer to their amigos and hermanos and madres, they say por favor and gracias and de nada, they wish people feliz cumpleanos and feliz navidad. Spanish curse words are (of course) especially popular.

This is how real people who are speaking a real second language often actually talk in the real world. In the fake world (Forgotten Realms), things likely wouldn't be any different. It's perfectly plausible for a drow who knows Common only as a second language to toss in a couple of drow words here and there, especially if she/he still feels some sort of affinity to drow culture (either Lolthite or Eilie).

For those of you whom don't know where the translator is:

Original: Nindol zhah waele. Usstan inbal nau ul'hyrr ele F'sarn kl'aein draeval ulu xun nindol.
Common: This is stupid. I have no idea why I'm using time to accomplish this.

Original: Nindol type d' plynnithus zhah naut quarthes, ol zhah barely tangis' ilythiiri.
Common: This type of writing is not appropriate, it is barely even drow.

To which I say, Kyorl, ol zhah jivvin, Selvek. (See, it is fun, Selvek.)

I like those drow words, I get a kick out of those drow sentences - I have post-it's with some of Axleigh's more colorful ones AND I take the time to send a Tell to someone I haven't RP with before to tell them that //dos = you etc. (Most of the time I get "I know." back.) It helps me take on the nasty drow persona. After all, I am a nice person so I use the drow words to remind me that my characters are not nice people.

AND I always ask what drow words mean, I don't really know that many. When I see one that’s interesting I like to use it, bweal (good).

I agree with Bravo 100%.

Therefore, I propose that we simply allow that other players won't RP exactly alike. Enjoy the variety. If you don’t know what was just said, ask. Come outside your quellar (house)! Speak with other drow characters! Stand tall (after you bow) and see how delightful drow RP can be!

Lizzie wrote:

I equate the question to my real life, in which I work with a lot of Mexicans. (That's not politically incorrect, they actually literally are descended from immigrants from Mexico.)

Many of them grew up speaking English as a second language, and their speech is peppered with bits from their native tongue, even when addressing native English speakers (like me). They speak entire sentences in English, with occasional Spanish words - they refer to their amigos and hermanos and madres, they say por favor and gracias and de nada, they wish people feliz cumpleanos and feliz navidad. Spanish curse words are (of course) especially popular.

This is how real people who are speaking a real second language often actually talk in the real world. In the fake world (Forgotten Realms), things likely wouldn't be any different. It's perfectly plausible for a drow who knows Common only as a second language to toss in a couple of drow words here and there, especially if she/he still feels some sort of affinity to drow culture (either Lolthite or Eilie).

For my one drow who can speak common, he does indeed put many drow words in his sentences. Luckily the people who rp with him know he dislikes speaking common, and has even gone so far as to make sure his fey familiar speaks fluent drow so he doesn't have to say anything in common at all, merely letting his familiar do all the talking for him (be it in possession or not).

Also, I'll do stuff like Xa.. I mean yes. occasionally putting in a bwael forgetting that the word is good, ect..

Fierene Havenstar wrote:

For those of you whom don't know where the translator is:

Original: Nindol zhah waele. Usstan inbal nau ul'hyrr ele F'sarn kl'aein draeval ulu xun nindol.
Common: This is stupid. I have no idea why I'm using time to accomplish this.

Original: Nindol type d' plynnithus zhah naut quarthes, ol zhah barely tangis' ilythiiri.
Common: This type of writing is not appropriate, it is barely even drow.

To which I say, Kyorl, ol zhah jivvin, Selvek. (See, it is fun, Selvek.)

I like those drow words, I get a kick out of those drow sentences - I have post-it's with some of Axleigh's more colorful ones AND I take the time to send a Tell to someone I haven't RP with before to tell them that //dos = you etc. (Most of the time I get "I know." back.) It helps me take on the nasty drow persona. After all, I am a nice person so I use the drow words to remind me that my characters are not nice people.

AND I always ask what drow words mean, I don't really know that many. When I see one that’s interesting I like to use it, bweal (good).

I agree with Bravo 100%.

Therefore, I propose that we simply allow that other players won't RP exactly alike. Enjoy the variety. If you don’t know what was just said, ask. Come outside your quellar (house)! Speak with other drow characters! Stand tall (after you bow) and see how delightful drow RP can be!

Its not fun. Its kinda meta-gamey. Its like using PnP stuff in game. Cause your using outside stuff in the game to cover up what your saying. It should require permission from all parties present.

Fierene Havenstar wrote:

I like those drow words, I get a kick out of those drow sentences - I have post-it's with some of Axleigh's more colorful ones AND I take the time to send a Tell to someone I haven't RP with before to tell them that //dos = you etc. (Most of the time I get "I know." back.) It helps me take on the nasty drow persona. After all, I am a nice person so I use the drow words to remind me that my characters are not nice people.

Pics or it didn't happen!

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Its not fun. Its kinda meta-gamey. Its like using PnP stuff in game. Cause your using outside stuff in the game to cover up what your saying. It should require permission from all parties present.

LOL.

Now, is that metagamey like having a name that peolple can't be arsed to pronounce floating over thier heads kind of metagamey? Or the "I'll just bash and nit pick all the drow because they don't play the way I prefer", kind of metagamey.

Is it just because of a lack of lore? Or more likely a bad encounter with one or more players perhaps? On the plus side, actions and leadership will reform what you say is lacking in the UD. Make a drow PC and show us the way. It's easy to sit on the outside and be the noble peanut gallery. It's easy to cry metagamming when everyone refuses to do what you want, but in the end you're still crying.

So, hey. Is it alright if I use a Celt word or two? It's for my druid. For that matter, is it OK if I refer to my elf as a Quessir? It means people, but its metagamming to use it without everyones permission, right? Damned players and DM's, using all those stinking elf words...

Meh, a few words add flavour, and flavour is nice. Too much words that others don't understand (or can't reasonably guess correctly in the context) is not fun, though.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Its not fun. Its kinda meta-gamey. Its like using PnP stuff in game. Cause your using outside stuff in the game to cover up what your saying. It should require permission from all parties present.

It's meta-gamey only insofar as your character has an IC ability/right to be able to understand every word spoken by everyone within earshot. Which is to say, it's not meta-gamey at all.

Nekhy wrote:

Meh, a few words add flavour, and flavour is nice. Too much words that others don't understand (or can't reasonably guess correctly in the context) is not fun, though.

Agreed. I've seen players use the "drow translator" website to copy-'n-paste every word of every sentence they speak, replacing it all with drow. Two words... Ob. Noxious.

OP wrote:

I've seen players use the "drow translator" website to copy-'n-paste every word of every sentence they speak, replacing it all with drow. Two words... Ob. Noxious.

i've done this with my elf.
Example

-"ihqrqjrqrq qkmrqiojrqr qnrqlrqriq" </c [Elven] -"what a pretty morning today is"

If you provide the translation, It's OK - if you don't, you SUCK!

Nekhy wrote:

Meh, a few words add flavour, and flavour is nice. Too much words that others don't understand (or can't reasonably guess correctly in the context) is not fun, though.

Exactly. It's just flavour.

However, I'm dissapointed that some would use a OOC method to over come an annoyance, when an IC action or communication with the players one interacts with would have solved all these issues.

If I'm RP'ing with a drow, and I get a tell from another player asking for clarification for a word they don't know, or even a "Hey, speak english!" I'm happy to change. It's not a big deal for me, it's more immportant to have the interaction. But, then there are situations like this post, where everyone who substitutes drow words are assholes by default through OOC context. It's infuriating to be thrown into the box of "Bad Players", for something I'd be more than happy to change if I was only asked to do so at the time.

Bravo21 wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Its not fun. Its kinda meta-gamey. Its like using PnP stuff in game. Cause your using outside stuff in the game to cover up what your saying. It should require permission from all parties present.

LOL.

Now, is that metagamey like having a name that peolple can't be arsed to pronounce floating over thier heads kind of metagamey? Or the "I'll just bash and nit pick all the drow because they don't play the way I prefer", kind of metagamey.

Is it just because of a lack of lore? Or more likely a bad encounter with one or more players perhaps? On the plus side, actions and leadership will reform what you say is lacking in the UD. Make a drow PC and show us the way. It's easy to sit on the outside and be the noble peanut gallery. It's easy to cry metagamming when everyone refuses to do what you want, but in the end you're still crying.

So, hey. Is it alright if I use a Celt word or two? It's for my druid. For that matter, is it OK if I refer to my elf as a Quessir? It means people, but its metagamming to use it without everyones permission, right? Damned players and DM's, using all those stinking elf words...

No, it's meta-gamey like your speaking in full sentences in a language you know the players cannot understand, but their characters do understand. Your using information you know about the players to relay IC information. It would be like speaking French on an English server to convey information, because you know most of the server doesn't speak French.

You can stop being an ass to by the way. If you can't converse without being one, then don't at all.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Bravo21 wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Its not fun. Its kinda meta-gamey. Its like using PnP stuff in game. Cause your using outside stuff in the game to cover up what your saying. It should require permission from all parties present.

LOL.

Now, is that metagamey like having a name that peolple can't be arsed to pronounce floating over thier heads kind of metagamey? Or the "I'll just bash and nit pick all the drow because they don't play the way I prefer", kind of metagamey.

Is it just because of a lack of lore? Or more likely a bad encounter with one or more players perhaps? On the plus side, actions and leadership will reform what you say is lacking in the UD. Make a drow PC and show us the way. It's easy to sit on the outside and be the noble peanut gallery. It's easy to cry metagamming when everyone refuses to do what you want, but in the end you're still crying.

So, hey. Is it alright if I use a Celt word or two? It's for my druid. For that matter, is it OK if I refer to my elf as a Quessir? It means people, but its metagamming to use it without everyones permission, right? Damned players and DM's, using all those stinking elf words...

No, it's meta-gamey like your speaking in full sentences in a language you know the players cannot understand, but their characters do understand. Your using information you know about the players to relay IC information. It would be like speaking French on an English server to convey information, because you know most of the server doesn't speak French.

You can stop being an ass to by the way. If you can't converse without being one, then don't at all.

I agree with selvec in that full sentences should be a big nono. The server has a rule that all communication must be in english, and having an unreadable paragraph in drow violates that rule. Especially because its impossible to use a translator to go from nwn - you. I've only seen it work once in the past, and that was for a high drow ceremony and the person had paragraphs of drow then messaged everyone the translation. I found myself just watching and not actually reading it though.

And as nekh says, a little bit is flavor, and flavor is ok in my book.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Bravo21 wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Its not fun. Its kinda meta-gamey. Its like using PnP stuff in game. Cause your using outside stuff in the game to cover up what your saying. It should require permission from all parties present.

LOL.

Now, is that metagamey like having a name that peolple can't be arsed to pronounce floating over thier heads kind of metagamey? Or the "I'll just bash and nit pick all the drow because they don't play the way I prefer", kind of metagamey.

Is it just because of a lack of lore? Or more likely a bad encounter with one or more players perhaps? On the plus side, actions and leadership will reform what you say is lacking in the UD. Make a drow PC and show us the way. It's easy to sit on the outside and be the noble peanut gallery. It's easy to cry metagamming when everyone refuses to do what you want, but in the end you're still crying.

So, hey. Is it alright if I use a Celt word or two? It's for my druid. For that matter, is it OK if I refer to my elf as a Quessir? It means people, but its metagamming to use it without everyones permission, right? Damned players and DM's, using all those stinking elf words...

No, it's meta-gamey like your speaking in full sentences in a language you know the players cannot understand, but their characters do understand. Your using information you know about the players to relay IC information. It would be like speaking French on an English server to convey information, because you know most of the server doesn't speak French.

You can stop being an ass to by the way. If you can't converse without being one, then don't at all.

Sure. However we're not talking about entire walls of text in an ununderstandable language. In game, that is usually not seen except in very unique circumstances. If that is the case, the player needs to be instructed in the server rules(i.e.: talking to the player involved). In the case of adding IC flavour, I can tell you that most drow players won't know what the hell was said either and need a translation as well.

Simple word substitution is different. Most of the time it's simply flavour and the meaning will be readilly evident through context. Simply sending a tell and asking either what the word means, or asking them to stop is enough to resolve any missunderstanding.

Just remember, I'm the ass that actually is one for asking you to communicate with other players. Gasp! I'll hang that sign about my neck with pride, thanks.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Bravo21 wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Its not fun. Its kinda meta-gamey. Its like using PnP stuff in game. Cause your using outside stuff in the game to cover up what your saying. It should require permission from all parties present.

LOL.

Now, is that metagamey like having a name that peolple can't be arsed to pronounce floating over thier heads kind of metagamey? Or the "I'll just bash and nit pick all the drow because they don't play the way I prefer", kind of metagamey.

Is it just because of a lack of lore? Or more likely a bad encounter with one or more players perhaps? On the plus side, actions and leadership will reform what you say is lacking in the UD. Make a drow PC and show us the way. It's easy to sit on the outside and be the noble peanut gallery. It's easy to cry metagamming when everyone refuses to do what you want, but in the end you're still crying.

So, hey. Is it alright if I use a Celt word or two? It's for my druid. For that matter, is it OK if I refer to my elf as a Quessir? It means people, but its metagamming to use it without everyones permission, right? Damned players and DM's, using all those stinking elf words...

No, it's meta-gamey like your speaking in full sentences in a language you know the players cannot understand, but their characters do understand. Your using information you know about the players to relay IC information. It would be like speaking French on an English server to convey information, because you know most of the server doesn't speak French.

You can stop being an ass to by the way. If you can't converse without being one, then don't at all.

Geez, Selvec I didn't find anything Bravo said anywhere near being what you called him. While you get all bent about my translating your drow sentances, throwing "Metagaming" around. I'm picturing you with a grumpy face.

Clearly something or several somethings have happened to make you strongly dislike anything drow. Or that's what I get from your posts. I'm truely sorry that you've had bad experiences and I'd like to encourage you to encourage the players, like Bravo, whom are willing to change the way they RP to make you feel more comfy. Instead of calling names.

Perhaps those whom use more than a word here or there think it's fun? I have a hard time believeing that the players of Amia intentionally do things to piss off other players - at least not with any frequency.

As Bravo said, if you or any player whom finds the use of drow words annoying would simply say so then this would be solved. Although I will tell you I absently slip drow words in so you have to be patient.

As for metagaming, language, I don't think its possible. I always ask - mostly I try and do it IC. I couldn't understand a elf of Mystra and my drow had another players character translate. The Elf had an accent (like the dwarves sometimes do and I just couldn't get the hang of it). Again, I'm pretty sure as players we want to have conversations that include others, not the other way around.

One thing to note if the drow or any language other than the common equivelent is used in sentence of mostly common someone's toon with a high wisdom or even as a player can figure out what the word represents in the context of the sentence.

example:

"Care for some apple juice."- mixed language equivelent response .. "Uma please, I would like some very much."

Uma or how I like to type Uhm'ah for flavor lol means Yes. Like Xas in drow.

Languages can be meta-gamed though quite a bit of toons with average intelligence that speak a few languages more than they should, but thats another topic.

My comments on the metagaming subtopic. I myself cannot -stand-!, the word metagame being used to decribe some mistake I might have made or actions I did. I don't metagame if at all possible, but I'm human and not perfect, lol so it happens. If it does, send a tell or pm to me to let me know. It's disrespectable to accuse someone of that in the public forums as far as I'm concerned. I think that how others should see the word is, for the most part, people don't like it. It's basically calling them a cheat. Thems fightin' words pard'nr! lol So thats my spin in on it!

Topic:

I'd say if your going to use full sentences give a translation with it, if your not sure the player you're rp'ing with understands drow or not. When I play my elf and use elven words, I'll send a tell or use ooc to translate depending how many players I'm rp'ing with, just to make sure they know what was said. Some do, some don't, never hurts to let them know anyway.

Fierene Havenstar wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Bravo21 wrote:

LOL.

Now, is that metagamey like having a name that peolple can't be arsed to pronounce floating over thier heads kind of metagamey? Or the "I'll just bash and nit pick all the drow because they don't play the way I prefer", kind of metagamey.

Is it just because of a lack of lore? Or more likely a bad encounter with one or more players perhaps? On the plus side, actions and leadership will reform what you say is lacking in the UD. Make a drow PC and show us the way. It's easy to sit on the outside and be the noble peanut gallery. It's easy to cry metagamming when everyone refuses to do what you want, but in the end you're still crying.

So, hey. Is it alright if I use a Celt word or two? It's for my druid. For that matter, is it OK if I refer to my elf as a Quessir? It means people, but its metagamming to use it without everyones permission, right? Damned players and DM's, using all those stinking elf words...

No, it's meta-gamey like your speaking in full sentences in a language you know the players cannot understand, but their characters do understand. Your using information you know about the players to relay IC information. It would be like speaking French on an English server to convey information, because you know most of the server doesn't speak French.

You can stop being an ass to by the way. If you can't converse without being one, then don't at all.

Geez, Selvec I didn't find anything Bravo said anywhere near being what you called him. While you get all bent about my translating your drow sentances, throwing "Metagaming" around. I'm picturing you with a grumpy face.

Clearly something or several somethings have happened to make you strongly dislike anything drow. Or that's what I get from your posts. I'm truely sorry that you've had bad experiences and I'd like to encourage you to encourage the players, like Bravo, whom are willing to change the way they RP to make you feel more comfy. Instead of calling names.

Perhaps those whom use more than a word here or there think it's fun? I have a hard time believeing that the players of Amia intentionally do things to piss off other players - at least not with any frequency.

As Bravo said, if you or any player whom finds the use of drow words annoying would simply say so then this would be solved. Although I will tell you I absently slip drow words in so you have to be patient.

As for metagaming, language, I don't think its possible. I always ask - mostly I try and do it IC. I couldn't understand a elf of Mystra and my drow had another players character translate. The Elf had an accent (like the dwarves sometimes do and I just couldn't get the hang of it). Again, I'm pretty sure as players we want to have conversations that include others, not the other way around.

Read the rest of the posts in this thread before you next reply. Thanks.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Read the rest of the posts in this thread before you next reply. Thanks.

ROFL. Ditto.

Last edited by DoomKnight on Sat, Jan 15 2011, 19:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.

http://www.eilistraee.com/chosen/language.php

>_> <_< *cough*

EDIT: Ooops, sorry, didn't show up as a virus on my comp, lemme know if this has the same problem.

"This website is an attack site!"

Tis what I'm being told by google, and is why I didn't post a link. Since Tormak deletes such links.

OOC: Concerning speaking Drow via word replacement.

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