AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - (OOC) General Rules Regarding Academy Faction Leadership

Here are some helpful guidelines for Lolthite Drow and how they obtain leadership in an academy. If you think of the academies as factions it will help. Also, think RP instead of PVP.

General rules regarding obtaining ranks in the academies in Edonil. This would be the Temple of Lolth, Sorcere & Melee Magthere.

Please note that these requirements must be met in order for your character to be able to take over as leader of an academy:

1. You must currently be a member of that academy in good standing.
2. You must either defeat the rival in a contest of skill witnessed by others OR
You must get the other members of the academy to vote the current leader out.

Please note that no Ul’ath’tallar nor Ilharessen may appoint anyone into those leadership positions. It is up to the members of that academy to decide who the leader will be. The Ul’ath’tallar and ilharessen can, however, publically support the Drow of their choice.

The reason for this is that each academy polices itself and the members control the leadership instead of other players/characters dictating an academy/faction leadership. (So basically, if you aren’t in the academy then you shouldn’t be able to make them take the leader of your choice

).

Please note this is not to say your character can’t make back room deals in order to help your preference for a position gain that position, this is Lolthite drow we’re talking about after all. Keep in mind that killing off a character doesn't automatically get your character their spot. It's certainlly more fun to RP the take over and in my experience the evil drow players are excellent RPers.

*huggles* - Fi

Can we have a DM confirmation on this please?

Particularly:

Fierene Havenstar wrote:

It is up to the members of that academy to decide who the leader will be. ...

The reason for this is that each academy polices itself and the members control the leadership instead of other players/characters dictating an academy/faction leadership. (So basically, if you aren’t in the academy then you shouldn’t be able to make them take the leader of your choice

).
- Fi

The above quote from Fi is the way I -thought- it was supposed to work. But I was told by another "older" drow player that in the past the DMs said the academies worked for the Ust'ilharess. Though I may well have misunderstood what "worked for" meant. As most of these systems were set up before I began playing a matron. It would be great to have them spelled out.

And this question has nothing to do with Maral's RP. Nor would the answers change any "actions" she has taken recently. :twisted:

I feel like you're asking a loaded question because of who you play.

I was told that "a long time ago" the DMs gave instructions to the PCs about how they were supposed to play drow society. All i'm asking is for those guidelines to be passed on to those of us that haven't been around as long.

To show what I mean. This week Maral told Alton to go and take over the Sorcere. She expected him to have to challenge & win the position. But that is only the case if someone actually wants to fight him for it. However if the DMs say that Alton cannot hold the position because he was not ranked in the Sorcere before claiming it- then that changes everything. If on the other hand it is not a lore rule, but one that is dependent on what the player base decides then the RP will go in a different direction.

Just because Maral wants and pushes for something IC doesn't mean that I don't occasionally have to use my OOC common sense to pull her back from the brink.

I've had various characters in charge of a few of the academies (actually all of them but the temple at various times I believe)... And I'm fairly sure that I've done so without following rule one and/or rule two more than one of those times.

But I am a trained professional, so kids, don't try this at home.

(Those actually are good rules to go by in general though.)

You didn't actually tell him, you basically came up and told us that 'Alton is now leader of the Sorcere', and that because your the first matron, that's that.

Thanks for the further clarification, Fierene.

I'm sorry to muddy Fi's post with this. But as I'm fairly certain the entire post was made because of fallout from this RP I feel it is relevant. Maybe once we get some other input we can post a clean version.

Alak, You did not see the RP that happened between Maral and Alton. And to my knowledge you did not see the RP that happened between Alton and Naltyrr that followed. Both of which happened before Maral came to house My'afin.

Then entire reason she came to My'afin was because Nal'tyrr told Alton he would "have to get the ul'athtaller's permission". This was the issue she took up with Vie. Sure at the end she threw in some "it's my city" etc... but it was ALL about the ul'athtaller "permission". Which as you see by Fi's post, is not true. And there is a great deal of angst between the Matrons and the Ul'athtaller which you probably know nothing about.

My posts here are NOT an attempt to counter what Fi has posted. I'm only seeking to determine what the DMs consider Lore for how Edonil is supposed to be run, and what are player driven guidelines.

I fail to see why this went OOC at all.

People overstepping their authority is IC not OOC.

Stuff like this should be settled in character, in my opinion.

So, heres the thing. Yes, Ust'Ilharess can do anything she darn well pleases, I know Nizzre did when she was Ust'Ilharess. As far as what Maral was told...she has to decide how to handle that informtion. In an attempt to avoid putting a spoiler in a public posting, just remember in Lolthite drow town, there is always more going on then you think.

The reason for the posting was to set some ground rules so that the players who worked for their positions either by moving up the ranks or doing some wonderful plotting don't feel like one single player can just come in and replace them at the drop of a hat.

Currently two yath'tallars are MIA yet I am taking the time to contact them to find out what's up instead of just telling the perspective yath'tallar they get so-and-so's position. This allows for RL to happen. Do I care too much about the drowsie players? Probably.

Yet what this boils down to is that any players character can try what ever they want ICly. I'm not trying to dictate what folks should and shouldn't do. My apologies if it seemed that way.

Last edited by RaveN on Thu, Mar 29 2012, 17:33 PM, edited 2 times in total.

In drow society, people are replaced with the drop of a hat. It isn't some kind of game where you can screw everyone else over and be immune to it yourself.

Thanks Fi! You know I rely a great deal on your guidance and experience

This would all be so much easier if we just elected As'd king... :roll:

Needled247 wrote:

In drow society, people are replaced with the drop of a hat. It isn't some kind of game where you can screw everyone else over and be immune to it yourself.

And yet Amia is a game in a pretend world. I would like to think that we can protray the drow ideals and still be friends in the RL. I'm asking for a lot, I know.

blaq valor wrote:

This would all be so much easier if we just elected As'd king... :roll:

Why didn't I think of that! *snickers*

Fierene Havenstar wrote:

Needled247 wrote:

In drow society, people are replaced with the drop of a hat. It isn't some kind of game where you can screw everyone else over and be immune to it yourself.

And yet Amia is a game in a pretend world. I would like to think that we can protray the drow ideals and still be friends in the RL. I'm asking for a lot, I know.

I find it hard to believe that if you get stiffed in character that you'd be inclined to change your OOC relationship with said person.

If you do, then perhaps you need to find another hobby.

Besides. It is a persistent world. You can always start your plotting all over again. You don't always need to be secure and winning to have fun. When people go inactive for long periods of time, they're better off being replaced because it just stagnates RP.

I've been replaced for being AFK and I encouraged it. Not only on my drow, but on several other characters. I can't see why you would want people to deal with you not being there but stuck with you being in charge of something they do every day.

Please note that Krrja was not logged on for 3 whole days and he was keeping in touch OOCly and ICly during that time. And the event was designed to get players involved in a mystery. I'm thinking we shouldn't punish inventive fun.

And you've just said yourself you encouraged your replacement. So you knew and were ok with what happened to your character.

Just saying.

Oh don't get me wrong, for one, I wasn't addressing anything specific, and well, do note that my statement carefully said

Quote:

When people go inactive for long periods of time

3 days isn't a long time. a month though, is.

Fierene Havenstar wrote:

blaq valor wrote:

This would all be so much easier if we just elected As'd king... :roll:

Why didn't I think of that! *snickers*

Cause velve would have to come back and smite u both :-P

blaq valor wrote:

This would all be so much easier if we just elected As'd king... :roll:

And made birroudin his regal guard. or a duke, either works quite wonderfully.

I want to say many many years ago, I inquired as to the possibility of getting a girdle of masculinity/femininity and putting it on isen, making him a woman and then going all power hungry trying to take everything over.

Apparently theres a silly server rule against changing a character's gender, and if you want to play a female as a male, you have to make a brand new character.

This question is slightly off topic but can anyone access the sorcere's library or members only? Thanks.

Basically anyone (Drow at least) can access it unless specifically barred.

Also as a side note; it isn't actually the Sorcere's library.

//Clarification: Ust' Ilharess Nizzre'tyne gave the sorcere ownership of the library in the sorcere building. Making it no longer Tinnerai property. Tinnerai had a library inside the quellar from which Nizzre'tyne took all the books (including the Tinnerai book containing all the names and notes of all Tinnerai that Velve Tinnerai had shown Nizzre'tyne.) Some books were taken to Krrja and some books were added to the Yath'tallar library and Nizzre'tyne still has 6 specific (in game) books she keeps.

Basically RP between Krrja and Nizzre'tyne was that the Sorcere housed all the tomes on arcane magics, mages, sorcerers, the books the librarian has (we figured anything in NWN or D&D under wizards, demons, devils, other races, languages, some maps of the surface etc so the Edonil Drow had a place to find information). The Yath'tallar library contains anything on divine magics, other deities, whipping techniques, proper capture and interrogations techniques etc anything pertaining to a priestess.

So if you are not a ranked priestess in the Temple you don't get to see the priestess of Lolth stuff

*Shakes fist* Stop making the libraries even more confusing!

Although it should be noted that the Sorcere should also still contain (Unless they were moved by one of the previously mentioned parties) a section of books based around warfare, combat, etc. Since the Magthere doesn't have proper housing for them.

*huggles* And that is an excellent idea, if the Sorcere and Magthere are supposed to be working together what a great way to meet up. So definitely all warfare, combat etc should be in there.

Krrja can you confirm and add anything I missed? We had that RP a while ago.

SheRises wrote:

This question is slightly off topic but can anyone access the sorcere's library or members only? Thanks.

Yes, no, and technicalities ensue.

Only members of the Sorcere who currently hold rank are authorized to use the library of the Sorcere. However, those with permission from the Ul'faeruk and any female of rank or of a house may also use the library due to their status. The caveat is that they will be unable to do so unobserved unless they decide to eliminate the librarian, the Tattooist, hairdresser, etc..

The Great Equalizer wrote:

Basically anyone (Drow at least) can access it unless specifically barred.

Also as a side note; it isn't actually the Sorcere's library.

Actually it is in fact the Sorceres library as each academy is self contained. While another academy or individual house may apply pressure, only the academy heads are responsible for the various academies in their entirety.

The Great Equalizer wrote:

*Shakes fist* Stop making the libraries even more confusing!

Although it should be noted that the Sorcere should also still contain (Unless they were moved by one of the previously mentioned parties) a section of books based around warfare, combat, etc. Since the Magthere doesn't have proper housing for them.

An excellent point. It would be reasonable to assert that most of those tome end up in the Sorcere for storage except those in the Ul'saruks office and those manuals needed on hand for general and advanced training. As well, those tomes dealing specifically with Spider Guard activities and procedures would have been diverted to the Temple library.

I do however have in my own notes that it was one of the subjects for consideration in coordination between the Melee Magthere and Sorcere, but I'm not sure if the subject was discussed or not at the time.

Wait, so, is no one allowed in the Sorcere (and the Magthere I guess as well) without explicit permission? I've never been able to find anything on access limitations for Edonil and such. I've walked around to acquaint myself with things when the server was empty before (female drow cleric of Lolth, not part of the Edonil temple) and I couldn't seen/find anything that stated restrictions. I just don't want to waltz into the wrong place unknowingly (though granted my drow is from Sshamath so she wouldn't precisely know Edonil's technical ins and outs anyways, so that makes for delicious RP and on top of things her near-total contempt and borderline hatred/disgust for males. Yay RP!).

Temple Laws are posted in the UD forum.

No. Anyone can go in, but they would be observed and liable for the consequences should any particular party take exception.

I really hate having to explain drow politics OOC'ly, but here it goes. Every player should take the time to read both books found in the Sorcere library, one explains various titles and the other the order of rank in drow society. Simply put, any drow of higher rank can decide that low or unranked characters cannot go somewhere or needs to do something at their whim. Unless someone of higher rank limits that power it is essentially law and it's your ass if you don't submit to it. The only way to counter that is by political alliance or PvP, one gains you influence the other just gets you kicked out of the city.

Perception is also the primary law in drow society. Perception of power equals power, and perception of wrongdoing equals wrongdoing.

Fierene Havenstar wrote:

Temple Laws are posted in the UD forum.

Yep! Caught those, though I read them again just to be sure!

Bravo21 wrote:

No. Anyone can go in, but they would be observed and liable for the consequences should any particular party take exception.

That's all I need to know out of what you said. I figured she'd have been watched, of course, and I was just mucking about anyways, though I did pop open a bunch of the books pertinent to basic IC/OOC knowledge.
The rest I already knew

I did a lot of drow research before I made my first drow waaaaay back. Then I refreshed my memory on them when I made my cleric (the original was a bard).

That said, why do you hate having to explain them OOCly? If there is something that a player is not aware of that a sensible drow would know, it's better for the player to be informed lest they do something they character would not do (thereby punishing the IC for an unknowing OOC mistake).
Just a comment on it.

Naivatkal wrote:

That said, why do you hate having to explain them OOCly? If there is something that a player is not aware of that a sensible drow would know, it's better for the player to be informed lest they do something they character would not do (thereby punishing the IC for an unknowing OOC mistake).
Just a comment on it.

While I do agree with you on the essence of your statement, a lot of people generally take offense to OOC explanation of such things because they take it as a personal attack or interpret it such that they are being told by some "elitist" that they are an "ignorant" player. It's a lot better to handle situations like that ICly, really, than OOCly from my own personal experience. It really depends on the person, but the probability of people getting offended and flipping out at you is a lot higher than them going, "Oh. I didn't know that. Thanks!"

Tomato Sword wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

That said, why do you hate having to explain them OOCly? If there is something that a player is not aware of that a sensible drow would know, it's better for the player to be informed lest they do something they character would not do (thereby punishing the IC for an unknowing OOC mistake).
Just a comment on it.

While I do agree with you on the essence of your statement, a lot of people generally take offense to OOC explanation of such things because they take it as a personal attack or interpret it such that they are being told by some "elitist" that they are an "ignorant" player. It's a lot better to handle situations like that ICly, really, than OOCly from my own personal experience. It really depends on the person, but the probability of people getting offended and flipping out at you is a lot higher than them going, "Oh. I didn't know that. Thanks!"

Hah, I ad not thought of it that way. Probably because I'm one of the sensible people that like to learn things I didn't know

Also, to clarify, I'm just being curious, Bravo, in case I came off with an attitude in my post (I only say this cause I can see the possibility of something being taken the wrong way, not because I expect you to).

No, no, no, not at all. The new and different experiences are what makes drow fun. What I was actually reacting to was the implication in your question that there is an absolute right or wrong answer in drow society, there isn't. It's very fluid and very political. Only the facade of order is maintained, and even that changes on a regular basis.

Bravo21 wrote:

No, no, no, not at all. The new and different experiences are what makes drow fun. What I was actually reacting to was the implication in your question that there is an absolute right or wrong answer in drow society, there isn't. It's very fluid and very political. Only the facade of order is maintained, and even that changes on a regular basis.

Gotcha, I wasn't considering it would change quite that much, or that at least an NPC would have reasonably said 'gtfo you're not allowed here' even without a DM controlling them. I'm staying out of Edonil unless there are other drow there anyways, so really the point is moot I suppose!

Thanks for clearing me up on that, too.

(OOC) General Rules Regarding Academy Faction Leadership

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