AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Hey guys.

I'm writing a constitution for the Vanguard. This will include all of the rules of the Vanguard, responsibilities of the Vanguard, positions within the Vanguard, punishable acts within the Vanguard, etc. This will be presented by Unuldor, the Herald of Discipline to the council for ratification hopefully within a week or so. If anyone has any suggestions of what should be included, please either post it here for open discussion or PM it directly to me.

On Wednesdays we wear pink.

Vanguard's, primer Naivaktal. Not the Temple's.

Speaking of which, get your arse online as Zrae more often. She's fun to RP with and I think the last time I RPd with her was back in April.

You should take a look at the filled Vanguard positions again. Zrae is teh Queen's Whip, brah. Pretty such that if Zrae, being both the second in command of the Vanguard and the Ul'ath'tallar, said that on Wednesdays they wear pink then by Lolth everyone would wear pink on Wednesdays :lol:

And I do play her, you are just never on when I am on XD You were out fo the game for a while, lol.

Oh right. I keep forgetting Zrae has rank in the vanguard...

Rule of the Vanguard: Zrae cannot have rank in the vanguard...

And now you see where everything started to fall into place.

T'was a masterstroke.

I will take that as official confirmation that the rule of 'piss of Zrae' has been ratified by the temple.

All hail the removal of Zrae from the Vanguard!

--And aside from the obligatory reply from Naivaktal, let's return to the actual topic shall we?

This all has been on topic, silly. You should see the other stuff Tag and Zrae talk about and plot while no one's around. Pink will be the least of your worries.

I have no idea what he's talking about *shifty eyes*

Worry not old chap, I shaln't be informing the plebes of the wondrous things we are concocting.

Mmmnnnn, yes, quite.

(( This is why we can't have nice things ))

Theander, mate.

Once you've written a draft copy, let me know. I'll make some time to discuss it over with you either ICly or OOCly.

Question from a new drow player.

What Is the vanguard and why does it exist?

Last edited by Gondor on Thu, Jul 18 2013, 13:53 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Question from a new drow player.

What Is the vanguard and why does it exist?

As per drow lore, former cities of the drow subrace had academies.

Vel'xundussa (something like it) or the Institute:spies etc
Melee Magthere-Warrior academy
Sorcere-mage academy
Temple of Lolth- priestresses and divine warriors

However, with the limited playerbase, the academies have become rather inactive.
The vanguard was created to concentrate the roleplay of warriors, rogues and mages, and protect the drow.

The vanguard is still subdivided in: discipline, knowledge and divine branches, albeit not strictly.

Theander, you might want to look at the former Melee Magthere thread I had created.
There may be some bits that can help you there.

Melee magthere of Edonil

Gondor wrote:

The vanguard is still subdivided in: discipline, knowledge and divine branches, albeit not strictly.

FYI there is no actual divine branch, that is housed exclusively in the Temple (yay Cool Kids Club!). The Queen's Whip position is pretty much to provide Temple oversight in the Vanguard. Sort of a second in command position that gives the Temple eyes into the military's workings.

Okay. So clerics peep over to the temple and do the will of lloth.

And all other peep over to the vanguard.
But doesn't houses have their own enforcement branches?

Why do you even join the vanguard? What's the perks of it?

I should clarify on the Temple bit. I was referring to Lolthite clerics, however Selvetarm clerics (or Selly BGs and Lolth BGs) can gain some prestige as well. They won't get ranked in the Temple itself, but there's also the Spider Guard that they can join and gain prestige in. So Selly clerics are not realyl looked down upon or anything it's just the official rankings they won't have a place in. That's not to say a Selly ranking system cannot be devised outside the Temple so long as toes are not stepped on, either.

Yes, the houses (or 'house' as things currently are) have their own guards. Vilrath has a recruitment thing up now, I saw. The Vanguard is not for protecting the houses, though. See the next point.

The Vanguard is the military might of Nec'perya. They contain the most skilled warriors and mages, and to some extent spies, of the island. Their purpose is to provide the guard force and to protect the city and it's inhabitants. Think of it as a garrisoned military in the city.

The most obvious perks would be gaining rank and status in the settlement. With the Sorcere, Melee Magthere, and VDVM being consolidated (though still with their individual branches more or less) so that they can work as a better cohesive whole, someone can excel in the ranks much like they would have in the Sorcere or Magthere. So a male would find a good way to gain status by joining the Vanguard under the Herald of Discipline (ie Magthere) if they are a warrior or under the Herald of Knowledge (ie Sorcere) if they are a mage. The same even would go for a female that is not divinely blessed.

I hope that clears some things up!

Naivatkal wrote:

I should clarify on the Temple bit. I was referring to Lolthite clerics, however Selvetarm clerics (or Selly BGs and Lolth BGs) can gain some prestige as well. They won't get ranked in the Temple itself, but there's also the Spider Guard that they can join and gain prestige in. So Selly clerics are not realyl looked down upon or anything it's just the official rankings they won't have a place in. That's not to say a Selly ranking system cannot be devised outside the Temple so long as toes are not stepped on, either.

Selvetarm is what I meant with divine.

Gotcha, though they are pretty much swallowed into the Magthere portion of the Vanguard. Unless something changed, the Selly clerics are not really separate. Could change, course! Or they could have their own division in the melee branch, or something, idk. That's up to the silly males :3

But doesn't the houses protect the city?

The houses play a part in it as well. The Vanguard is the primary force. And, when you look at the enlistment, a large portion of the Vanguard is in Vilrath anyways :mrgreen:

So they do their part for sure.

Pretty much it's mostly expected that a person joins the Vanguard if they are not a member of the Temple in some way. Like the unspoken rule that you will be enlisting XD That's in regards to someone that's aspiring to be more than a commoner, of course (ie PCs and those NPCs the DMs use to fill out the ranks).

edit: Also the Vanguard was made when the houses are more sparsely populated and their own guards were not numerous so this was a good alternative, just like with the academies being so sparse in membership. The Vanguard is in no way a scapegoat for the noble houses to neglect their duties to protect the city, either.

But wait. Houses battle eachother ... ? How the hell does that work when they are in the vanguard 'Together' ?

The same as it worked when they were in the separate institutions? In the shadows.

Yarp. Remember that outright conflict is typically frowned upon.

And there's currently the issue of Nec'perya needing solidarity to get fully up and running so that overrides things to an extent. After all, letting things break down because of squabbling would probably earn some people a one way trip to the Demonweb Pits ;3

Ah right. A house is pretty much just a family. And this family works in the Vanguard to protect the city they live in ...

Joining the vanguard gets you honour and status. Protecting your home is kinda honourable i suppose? What about the temple? Why is there no idol to Selvetarm?

There is, it's right outside the Temple door on the other side of the Lolth one XD

But yep you get the gist of it as far as the houses and Vanguard goes.

Good conversation guys. I'll be including some stuff that clarifies this automatically in the primer.

Also, thanks Gondor, that's going to be very useful.

For future reference - Can you post exactly what the vanguard's purpose, Both in an IC perspective and a OOC perspective. Because it really takes effort for a new guy like me to understand the complicated system.

Perhaps you could explain how the Magthere works on a social structure in a drow city. How it's applicable here on Amia, And in the low populated underdark we live in, Etcetera.

I, and probably others, would be very thankful for this.

The Vanguard, in a nutshell? Think militia, R&D and civil services rolled into one.

serbiris wrote:

The Vanguard, in a nutshell? Think militia, R&D and civil services rolled into one.

R&D?

Perhaps reading through the thread I linked may help you understand it better.
Though, the vanguard resembles the new changes, the mages have a similar role (protection, training, and magical research etc).

Gondor wrote:

Melee magthere of Edonil

This was a very good read. :mrgreen:

Especially the diagram

Usually, the Olath' branch or the 'temple guards' are a subdivision of the temple of Lolth. They are as mentioned before mainly those who follow Selvetarm and receive divine powers from him, there are also a few blackguards among them.

However, because of reduced activity and less players/characters, I established IC a merger between the Melee Magthere and the Temple Guard and ranked them together in the same institute. As the diagram shows there still was a subdivision between normal soldiers and temple guards, but not as lined out as before.

The same is being established with the Vanguard (by the scholar originally). To concentrate the roleplay of academies, guards, etc a third division has been added to the diagram: the Sorcere - the mages. The Sut'rinos has been replaced by the Heralds: Herald of Discipline (sut'rinos), Herald of Vigilance (Olath'sutrinos) and the Herald of Knowledge (faeruk-archmage). The Lord commander oversees the three divisions and is responsible for the overall institute (which replaces the Ul'saruk in the diagram).

I

Well. Based on previous experience, I know that big organizations with a lot of sub-ranks and whatnot usually fail when they have a small player number.

How can there be 4 Generals and 6 Admirals when there is only 10 people in the faction, for example

Muspelkvist wrote:

How can there be 4 Generals and 6 Admirals when there is only 10 people in the faction, for example

The Temple runs into the same issue. Everyone wants to be a Yath'tallar (which makes IC sense lol) or Yathrin. So I had to chop max limits down. Actually, I might just do it again :twisted:

Muspelkvist wrote:

Well. Based on previous experience, I know that big organizations with a lot of sub-ranks and whatnot usually fail when they have a small player number.

How can there be 4 Generals and 6 Admirals when there is only 10 people in the faction, for example

That's what we're trying to figure out. In any case one organization is a lot better than three. Furthermore, the vanguard is not a faction, and should be withheld from becoming a faction. I realize the statement is particularly vague. The vanguard should be considered a group, despite your race, despite your affiliation, any individual of the Underdark who is keen on protecting their homestead should be able to join it. Compare it to the Armathora of the Elven city Winya, they protect the Elven ways on Amia, we attempt to protect the Underdark.

The above is ICly still under development, not everybody views the vanguard this way and the vanguard is far from fulfilling the above description. It could be that with the current role play, the vanguard will change it's ways.

EDIT: This doesn't mean that certain rules shouldn't apply in the same manner they apply on factions though.

>_>

The Vanguard of Nec'perya is for the city, not the protection of the Underdark around it. Certainly it could gradually encompass that, but the only real objective is safety of our IC empire.

Naivatkal wrote:

The Vanguard of Nec'perya is for the city, not the protection of the Underdark around it. Certainly it could gradually encompass that, but the only real objective is safety of our IC empire.

That's the question we're dealing with. As of the moment, such is the view.

Works like this eh?

Edit - And it's not an empire. It's ... A town ...

And what about L'Obsul? What is their "Magthere" ?

Pretty much!

As long as you also take into account noble houses, merchant houses, commoner houses, outcasts who come serve the vanguard, etc

We can pretend that;

House 1 - Is a noble house
House 2 - Is a merchant house
House 3 - Is a Commoner house
House 4 - Is some weird shit nobody understands.

But wait. Isn't the divine branch above the vanguard?

Yeah, but nobody keeps track of the temple!

On my phone:

L'Obsul is run by a council of UD races it's not a drow run place.

As for the Vanguard's purpose we would have to swell in size greatly to be that effective. Also, there are plans in high places I can't divulge that superceed trying to go for that sort of scope yet. Though IC approaches to trying are welcome!

I'll post better when home lol

Last edited by Gondor on Fri, Jul 19 2013, 17:25 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Muspelkvist wrote:

And what about L'Obsul? What is their "Magthere" ?

As Navaitkal said, L'obsul, translated the Pit, is ruled by a council. There is a treaty between Svirfneblin, duergar, probably some other inhabitants and the drow house Zau'tar. The orientation of L'obsul is mainly trade. While the drow house Zau'tar is a big influence, it seems primarily concerned with trade.

I'd be interested to know what the drow contingent of L'obsul is, something Dusty may be able to provide, but personally I'd not underestimate it. The present drow have never created any establishment though. They have their drow oriented area: L'obsul below (I think it is) where house Zau'tar also has its private quarters. The other races are located in caverns around the Pit: duergar in the mines etc

L'obsul does not have academies because it has not developed into a proper city. I do recall some characters who tried to promote L'obsul, but the majority of the drow characters whom arrived in L'obsul preferred their own city which became Edonil and now becomes Nec'perya.

It's not to say that L'obsul isn't a role playing hub, but it is up to the players to make it more than just a trade center. Needless to say, some characters stick to L'obsul. And it'd be nice to see more variety of races in Edonil!

It's a shame l'Obsul wasn't created into a city of sorts. But let's not delve into that discussion. The majority know my stance on that matter.

So who provides defence of l'Obsul?

Muspelkvist wrote:

It's a shame l'Obsul wasn't created into a city of sorts. But let's not delve into that discussion. The majority know my stance on that matter.

So who provides defence of l'Obsul?

The council is an assembly of Duergar clans, Svirfneblins, Kobolds, Goblins, Drow, and other underdark races. I don't know the exact functioning of L'obsul currently, nor the power balance of the council.

If you imagine a combined effort of protection by all these communities, most likely also secured by their trade contracts on which they can rely in times of peril, they're a greater force than the current drow community in Nec'perya. The system of L'obsul protects itself as it is: the neutrality of the council. They are focussed on trade and are very cautious to shake the balance.

EDIT: There may have been notes of the population on the forum, but I'm not sure if I recall a contingent of L'obsul.

Your statement reminds me of another question. How many live in nec'perya? How many lived in edonil?

Also, it is not very easy to make a traditional drow setting fit with the structure of L'obsul. Every house would either stand below the council on the scale of power, or must do a big effort in being accepted by the council. Then there also is the question of how to approach the other underdark races without offending them, yet keeping your 'superiority' as drow;

It'd be an explication why it has never estavlished in L'obsul.

OOC: Vanguard's Primer

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