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DustSpray101
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 02 2014, 20:26 PM 

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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale

So far, we have lots of fun stuff coming!

•Nec's plot-produced facelift is just waiting on a few tiny bits of RP and the Hak update and then it will be coming in!

•L'Obsul is getting rehashed to become less sprawled and more starting-player-friendly!

•Increased IC awareness of what the level progression of 'dungeons' in the UD is!

That said, I could use some input:
  • What Dungeons...
    • ...need to be rebalanced?
    • ...could use a face lift?
    • ...leave you wanting more?

  • What kind of Scripted NPC Plots...
    • ...might help explain the setting to a new UD player?
    • ...would feel most fulfilling?

  • What Shops...
    • ...need to be looked at?
    • ...could use new items?
    • ...should be more accessible?

I can't promise that all suggestions will find their way in game, but your feedback will help us get things going in a direction that makes everyone happy!

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Anatida
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 02 2014, 20:40 PM 

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Dusty,

On the dungeons revamping, are you including level progression? I'm going to proceed with my suggestion as if you said, yes. :P

There are a ton of options that all seem to cater to the same ECL group, judging from the xp they give. It has been a long time since I tried, so forgive if my memory is cloudy on the specifics.

Areas that all seem to give the same XP and peter out at the same time:
Ogres
Glory(uhWhatAreTheyCalled)
Svirfs
Duergar
Hostile Drow areas (may be slightly higher)

What I have noticed with every drow I've ever leveled is that once you hit about lvl 10-11 (ECL 12-13) you have to go to the surface, usually to hunt minos with a group. I remember this because I usually end up there after getting frustrated with not being able to progress in the UD, and when I get the mino quest reward (LR 12) I still have 2 levels before I can use it. With a solid group you can head on down to the deeper dark and start leveling there, but it seems like there is a rather large gap in the progression within the UD.

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DustSpray101
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 02 2014, 20:44 PM 

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Yup. This is exactly the stuff we need to know. :)

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Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 02 2014, 23:55 PM 

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Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Location: [st]Ultrinnan[/st] [st]Edonil[/st] Nec'perya

I believe the underdark bartenders are missing some of the old staples we had back in ultrinnan.

Specifically, the bar stocked Quilovestault, Spidervenom Wine, Blood Wine, and Jhinrae. Jhinrae is the one I can never seem to find, and I have I think one bottle in my inventory right now.

I'm sure adjusting the stock carried by bartenders isn't high on the list of things though.

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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
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Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 03 2014, 0:02 AM 

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Location: [st]Ultrinnan[/st] [st]Edonil[/st] Nec'perya

As for dungeon revamps...

In my experience nobody EVER goes to beholders. The dungeon layout on B is just too difficult to fight in. For example, the layout of beholders on A provided the opportunity to utilize tactics (which some might consider abuse of terrain I suppose) to make it not instant death. They'd summon a creature at one end, and then have the rest of the party run around and flank the beholders while they're occupied so proper targets could be assigned and taken out in order. On B, the straight paths are borderline obnoxiously long, making runs take 2-3x longer than really necessary, and then the dungeon layout makes it so everyone is dropped in one room or a straightaway for every fight, so beholders always hit the entire party with multiple antimagic rays each encounter.

Not to mention, after all is said and done I am pretty sure there is no Majesty or comparable epic boss at B-holders, meaning the party would have just gone through a very difficult fight that takes longer than it should to have 0 chance at epic loot.

Compared to illithids, which gets the vast majority of underdark high level traffic, its a no brainer. Sure, the thralls hit for a ton of damage if they get a crit, but even a single support mage makes the whole level super easy (until Domi)

Now I know the beholders give a ton of xp, but its just not worth it to make the trip.

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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words


 
      
Estara
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 03 2014, 6:01 AM 

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If we start an UD day I will probably end up being more active as there's a dependable time to interact!

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 03 2014, 6:20 AM 

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There's actually a good amount of activity going on. EST afternoons/evenings seem to be pretty populated, so that helps! Just check the Player List for drow names and have at it :mrgreen:

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kalcibone
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 03 2014, 6:27 AM 



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Joined: 18 Feb 2013

Maybe have it so a better starting (or more obvious) starting quest? trying to find all the UD starting quests are hard for people who dont keep giant maps of every inch of the servers.


 
      
Glim
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 03 2014, 7:28 AM 

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Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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Not sure what Dusty might be after here but for my purposes at least as a Dev, specifics are far more helpful than generalizations.


 
      
Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 03 2014, 18:23 PM 

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ok

specifically in terms of deeper dark hunting grounds:

Non-epic
Koa Toa are by far the most efficient in terms of risk/reward. I probably do them from level 14-18, with no real reason to do cave creepers of baphitaur. Like really, there is literally no reason to ever do those two, from memory both of them hit harder and xp gain isn't as efficient.

Koa Toa specifically, I think the clerics should have greater sanctuary removed. It does nothing to help the spawn groups and only makes it obnoxuous because after a spawn group is killed you have to wait around for the GS to fall so the one or two isolated clerics can be dealt with.

Baphitaur, they always cast a bunch of darkness over the groups. Although they were given natural ultravision, this still stops them from engaging more than half the time. Good thematic ability, but mechanically i don't think it works very well.

Cave creepers, they're either too hard or too easy, really no inbetween there. The poison is strong but once you have the saves for them they're a cakewalk and don't give that much XP anyway. Its basically always preferable to Koa Toa, especially if you take advantage of walls so you don't have to engage everyone at once.

I've never actually done a run of with the... I don't even know their names. Ice Wraiths? Like, ever. Even at level 28 max'd out melee cleric with summons. I never got past the first spawn because of their aura or something.

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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words


 
      
Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 03 2014, 21:11 PM 

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Oh God the Ice Wraiths.

Cave Creepers are basically FoD range XP I believe, with Koa's being around there and Baphitaurs after the CCs. It's been a few months, though, I could be mistaken.

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MazeOfThorns
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 03 2014, 22:29 PM 

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The messenger quest in Cordor is great. You end up with supplies and equipment that is useful for the first few quests.

I don't mind having to talk to every NPC or having to roam around the mines (all levels) and L'Obsul top, bottom, half way. But getting a stack of 10 +1 bandages, rope etc would be more helpful than getting all gold for my characters troubles.

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Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 03 2014, 23:00 PM 

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ROPE

yes, something that ends with rope. There are like, 3 places on the server that you NEED rope and 2 of them are underdark hunting areas or just outside of them.

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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words


 
      
Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 04 2014, 5:43 AM 

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Lobsul: Bottom

there is a line of 5 NPCs who provide services, perhaps they could be set up into a sort of bazaar? It just seems, well, bizarre.

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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words


 
      
Genar_Detkasa
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 04 2014, 7:05 AM 

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Location: Melbourne, Australia [GMT +10]

They used to be Edonil PCs, it'll be cool to have them moved to Nec'perya.

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Aeqvinox
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 04 2014, 15:28 PM 

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Location: Underdark

Shops.

Both L'Obsul and Nec'perya have some nice and unique shops, for example Failed Wizard has a great selection of scrolls, Potion guy has great selection and prices, Container Merchant has well.. containers. Then there's this one drow male in Nec'perya that sells weapons and armors that are a mix of items from Zanshibon, Tarkuul, and a few items unavailable anywhere else - i love that guy (and his Galundur's Crossbow of Murder).

That said, for anything inbetween tier 0 and 1 items, and 1 merchant of tier basically "pre-epic" you have to go to the surface to gear up (or to Underport, but they don't have everything there either). We could use a generic merchant that sells plain +2 and +3 gear at the very least, if only so that people don't have travel to weird places, but personally i hate those generic shops. If at all possible, a mid-level tier merchant with a (semi)unique selection of non-generic items would be great. I mean weapons, armor and jewellery of tiers 1-3.

Again, the overall availability of items in the Underdark is rounded down to tiers 0-1+ (Underport, L'Obsul, Necperya) with one exception of more premium gear merchant in Nec'perya, who doesn't even fulfill all the needs of all classes. For example there is no premium gear for casters, both arcane and divine. For scrolls past level 3'rd you need to go to Endir's Point or Gauntlet, which is hardly ideal for a drow.

I don't have any more specific suggestions, reason being i have no idea what the DM's would see appropriate to make available for players in terms of gear. Bottom line is, UD'ers are gearing up outside of UD at this time.


Dungeons.

This is a tough one, because there are more hunting areas than would normally be necessary to fulfill player's needs from level 1 to 30. And yet as Anatida has said, the majority of them are sub-optimal and a whole bunch of them has similar levels of difficulty/xp. Personally i only hunt the Rats/Bats, Lizards, Trolls, Ogres (the best UD prey, almost as good as FoD), sometimes Duergar (for 5xp more per kill at similar difficulty) - and that's it. That is levels 1-9'ish; after that i go to FoD or Arachnid Forest, then Beastmen and so on.

Low tiers: Svirfneblin, Skellies/Demons, Hostile Drow (driders etc), Gloura and the Frozen Monks of Something on the surface - those areas are a waste of space atm. Also the caves with Spiders and Rothe seem to be pointless.

High tiers: everything except Baphitaurs, Kuo-Toa, Ravaged Stronghold and Contested Caves (squids and behos) is pointless.

There are at least two missing links in UD hunting grounds: first one is after Ogres, and the second one is before Illithids.

My suggestions would be:

1. Duergar - buff them up a little; it's a big dungeon that would be a great place to hunt in for a few more levels after Ogres. Possibly expand and equalize Gloura Har'ol so that duergar players aren't forced to kill their own dudes. Difficulty level similar to: Quagmires Lizardmen/Mylocks.

2. Baphitaurs - these could use some optimization; it's also a great dungeon that has a portal to some place with undead monsters, but spawns in both sections are too few. Perhaps the solution could be: lower difficulty on baphitaurs, increase difficulty on the undead, increase the amount of spawns in both areas. Difficulty level simiar to: Minotaurs, Khem in general, or Beastmen.

3. Cave Creepers - hate these guys. They are too difficult for the amount of xp they're giving. Fighting in the cramped tunnels is always to the PC's disadvantage, because their ugly models have small hitboxes and you'll always get swarmed. Their screeching is infuriating too, it's twice as loud as any other sound effect. I wouldn't shed a tear if they were to be replaced altogether for some other kind of underdark vermin.

Now let's say we have dungeon 1 and 2 sorted, all that we need is more orcs in the Ravaged Stronghold, and another dungeon similar in difficulty to Frost Giants/Yuan-ti, and no drow has to ever venture on surface hunts.

An additional suggestion i have; either:
- optimize the dungeons more towards smaller parties, even solo hunters (i.e. more xp), so that the smaller population of UD'ers has a similar progression (in speed) with small parties or even solo, as surfacers have with larger parties.
- introduce additional quest xp rewards instead of easier hunting grounds

And as a final note, if there are plans commit dev time to rejuvenate the entire Underdark, perhaps it's time we can scrap the travel-transitions in favor of actual linked areas map? It would sort out the "IC awareness of level progression of dungeons" simply by distance traveled from L'Obsul.

I hope my rant can be of help.
Aeqvinox

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Anatida
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 04 2014, 15:53 PM 

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I was going to say that +3 gear is too high for the UD, however, it then occurred to me that you can buy +3 gear in both Kohlingen and Barak Runedar. Certainly there should be /someplace/ in the UD that has +3 gear.

I loved all of Aeqvinox's suggests except - doing away with the travel system. I think it is a unique thing for the UD, and I can't think of any other way to make it difficult for non-UD races to get around (as it should be). They can already take boats to get to L'obsul tradehouse level, bind to the node in L'obsul Top, take a boat to Nec'perya, etc.

With the loss of Udos Dro'xun I wouldn't mind seeing the illithid city expanded just a bit (adding a few more spawns).

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Aeqvinox
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 04 2014, 17:16 PM 

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The area transitions could still check for "is ud race", and it would be the same as the current transitions in making it difficult for surfacers to find their way. I just think an actual Underdark that we can travel through, instead of "take me there" system, would be beneficial and more exciting.

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Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 04 2014, 18:07 PM 

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Aeqvinox wrote:
The area transitions could still check for "is ud race", and it would be the same as the current transitions in making it difficult for surfacers to find their way. I just think an actual Underdark that we can travel through, instead of "take me there" system, would be beneficial and more exciting.


so you mean like have a normal transition, but if you aren't a UD race it might spit you out somewhere else

so if I am in deeper dark, for example, and there are three transitions, one to ravaged stronghold, one to contested caves, and one to koa toa. As a drow the place I pick would be the place I end up, as a human, I have a chance to go to the wrong place (or be ambushed and end up somewhere entirely different)

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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
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RaveN
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 04 2014, 23:48 PM 

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I think it would be cool, expanding upon that idea, that we'd have chasms if a tileset allows (like in the FR-Underdark book), as well as areas that require tactics to navigate around. Maybe even some wild portals to who knows where, since there are supposed to be some!

Tall order, I know <.< but yeah, fast travelling through it kind of dulls the whole experience. Our compass doesn't go just 4 directions in the UD afterall!

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Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 05 2014, 3:01 AM 

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I once tried to plot out a 3d map of the amian underdark by using travel times and assumption of constant rate of movement, scaled for percent incline/ decline and then forced into a 'best fit'.

It never got anywhere. Mainly because I don't have any experience with 3d mapping

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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words


 
      
Very_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Wed, May 07 2014, 19:14 PM 

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Simply put; The underdark is 'Hollow' and 'Empty'

Not so simply put:
    # The majority of the underdark areas, hunting grounds and the general space between cities, locations and many transitions are filled with 'dead space' nobody uses.
    We have magnificent areas, massive in size, which contains .. four spawns. This is repeated through the entire underdark.

    # We have the entirety of L'bsoul and Nec'pereya which is composed of ...empty houses, empty mine-shafts and ... long tunnels filled with nothing.
    L'obsul is suppose to be a Bustling community filled with creatures of all races and travellers from all corners of the underdark; even surfacers! But there are none.

    # Nec'pereya is suppose to have a population of 200 (380+ Including slaves), where are they? Where's the common NPC woman and man discussing the recent Illithid problems, the latest duergar traders or the latest trip of the spider bearer? Where's the SOUL of the settlements?


Simple Population Solution
    # Copy the Cordor commoner's script and add a load of new sentences and populate the underdark. We need Drow, duergar, kobolds (LOTS OF THEM), orogs and the occasional svirfneblin who actually talk and discuss things in public.

Simple dead space solution
    # REMOVE the area between L'obsul and the boat to underport/Nec.
    # REMOVE much Of the mine in l'obsul or populate it massively
    # SHRINK the kobold lair and filled it until it nearly bursts with kobolds.
    # REMOVE the stairs to the deeper dark. Put the transition to the epic areas in L'obsul


_______________
A Roleplay Hub
    I want to see a RP hub similar to Cordor in L'obsul; And i know it can be possible if you put 2x things together.
    1x tavern/Inn/pub + 1x Ley line node.

    Combine that and you will have guaranteed traffic, an obvious meeting-place for underdarkers and the Go-to hangout place for weary travellers and drow. The perfect spot for subtle spying, or the ideal location to hire your next mercenary.

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Atmosphere
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    This is how the underdark generally looks like. It's warm, filled with life and ...a lot of dangers ... Our underdark is a cold, EMPTY, cavern

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Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Thu, May 08 2014, 3:57 AM 

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Svensk brings up a good point about the deeper dark.

We can perhaps put in a 16-18 hunting area between lobsul and the epic grounds, with a ruins of edonil node that segways into the other epic grounds.

I mean, the drow settlement at Edonil is gone now, so there is theoretically nothing keeping critter from expanding closer to L'Obsul.

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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words


 
      
Aeqvinox
 
PostPosted: Thu, May 08 2014, 9:40 AM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
# We have the entirety of L'bsoul and Nec'pereya which is composed of ...empty houses, empty mine-shafts and ... long tunnels filled with nothing.
L'obsul is suppose to be a Bustling community filled with creatures of all races and travellers from all corners of the underdark; even surfacers! But there are none.

_______________
A Roleplay Hub
[list][i]I want to see a RP hub similar to Cordor in L'obsul; And i know it can be possible if you put 2x things together.
1x tavern/Inn/pub + 1x Ley line node.



I'm thinking, there could also be merit in trying to draw in more non-UD race visitors to L'Obsul. It would be tricky, but might be worth it. Various folk visit places like Zanshibon or Underport, mainly because there are things of interest to be found there, and nowhere else. Merchants, resources, npc's etc. Could make L'Obsul something close to that too, so that some evil characters would visit occasionally. It would still be necessary to make it difficult for them to find their way around the UD. Just a thought.

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Genar_Detkasa
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 09 2014, 11:06 AM 

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I love the expansive L'Obsul mines though I agree it could use some livening up.

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 09 2014, 16:54 PM 

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I would suggest livening up over reducing the mines. They are sprwaling for a reason, and provide a lot of mining resources.

And L'Obsul does have a ley+bar combination. That's part of what the Tradehouse is ;p

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RaveN
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 09 2014, 18:25 PM 

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Aeqvinox wrote:
Very_Svensk wrote:
# We have the entirety of L'bsoul and Nec'pereya which is composed of ...empty houses, empty mine-shafts and ... long tunnels filled with nothing.
L'obsul is suppose to be a Bustling community filled with creatures of all races and travellers from all corners of the underdark; even surfacers! But there are none.

_______________
A Roleplay Hub
[list]I want to see a RP hub similar to Cordor in L'obsul; And i know it can be possible if you put 2x things together.
1x tavern/Inn/pub + 1x Ley line node.



I'm thinking, there could also be merit in trying to draw in more non-UD race visitors to L'Obsul. It would be tricky, but might be worth it. Various folk visit places like Zanshibon or Underport, mainly because there are things of interest to be found there, and nowhere else. Merchants, resources, npc's etc. Could make L'Obsul something close to that too, so that some evil characters would visit occasionally. It would still be necessary to make it difficult for them to find their way around the UD. Just a thought.


I don't know if we should encourage surfacers in the UD personally. Being a surfacer, and navigating the underdark is incredibly difficult and should be rare at best.

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 09 2014, 18:39 PM 

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Agreed. It's annoying enough that we have UD races traipsing around the surface that can lead surfacers around. It really is jarring with how the UD is supposed to be. Sigh.

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Lethaux
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 09 2014, 19:15 PM 

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Beholders need a majesty! More kobolds is good too. I do want to point out that kobolds aren't an underdark race, though some do live there.

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Aeqvinox
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 09 2014, 23:13 PM 

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Location: Underdark

Aw don't dramatize. Evil drow on the surface are a rare sight these days, same as the opposite case. Personally i've met a few surfacers in L'Obsul before, and not once these characters have not delivered decent RP.

I'm not suggesting to make it easier for surfacers to visit the UD, merely that we might want to try giving them a few more good reasons why they should. Keep in mind that currently the transition system is built in a way, that they are not able to leave the L'Obsul areas without wasting a portal wand charge to teleport out in frustration (they can only get back to Underport without getting lost). So when we make it slightly more inviting, whoever decides to visit L'Obsul is more likely to run into us. And we'll be waiting, oh yesss... mwahahaaarr ;>

And yes, this is the first time i'm going to say this, but... more kobolds.

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Very_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 09 2014, 23:26 PM 

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Also please remove one of the crystal nodes. It's silly to have two.
Having one means more people use that and "bump" into each other.

Now also place that bar on top of the crystal like I spoke about and we'll have a rp hub like no other.

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 09 2014, 23:36 PM 

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What are you talking about the bar IS right at the node. In fact, there's a bar at both nodes (I agree, remove one).

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Very_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Fri, May 09 2014, 23:47 PM 

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No idea why I didn't remember that xD

But ye. Remove upper crystal and keep lower node I guess?

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Ts_
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 10 2014, 0:04 AM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
Remove upper crystal and keep lower node I guess?

Remove lower and keep upper? The lower is yet another spider lover bar ...

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joe15552
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 4:26 AM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
Also please remove one of the crystal nodes. It's silly to have two.
Having one means more people use that and "bump" into each other.

Now also place that bar on top of the crystal like I spoke about and we'll have a rp hub like no other.


While it seems that Svensk doesn't know where all the cool bars are in town, he does actually have a point here. Two crystal nodes in L'Obsul is ... too much. Let's decide on one and one only. This will be conducive to role-play.


 
      
Very_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 11:09 AM 

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My omniscient has failed me :(

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Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 16:49 PM 

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ONe of the bars is in a drow only area, while the other is part of the whole cavern/hole that is L'Obsul where all the races are. If anything remove the bottom one? I dunno though

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Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 17:01 PM 

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by no means is the bottom 'drow only'

its drow dominated and drow run.

and way nicer than the bar up top.

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Anatida
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 17:03 PM 

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Sorry, but no. Neither is in a drow only area. The bar in the tradehouse can be reached by anyone because of the access to the boat that goes to Underport. The other one (lemme see if I can get this right for the first time in 3 yrs) on L'obsul top is accessible by any UD race or anyone else that a UDer has brought there (see my next point).

I'm not sure how the leyline nodes are coded, is there a restriction on the one in the tradehouse as to who can bind there? I know that humans (and I am assuming anyone else) can bind to the one beside the outdoor bar. Just wondering if perhaps this is why there were two nodes present. IE So you can get there, but because of the cranes and getting lost in the tunnels you can't go anywhere.

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Very_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 19:15 PM 

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So basically these two things contradict themselves?

A - Ley line nodes doesn't discriminate, but the ley node in l'Obsul bottom:Tradehouse only allow underdark races to bind
B - the crane conductor discriminates surfacers and let's them fall to their death. The boatsman from underport to l'Obsul doesn't.

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Anatida
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 20:00 PM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
So basically these two things contradict themselves?

A - Ley line nodes doesn't discriminate, but the ley node in l'Obsul bottom:Tradehouse only allow underdark races to bind
B - the crane conductor discriminates surfacers and let's them fall to their death. The boatsman from underport to l'Obsul doesn't.

Actually I can see the logic to this. As I said before, surfacers can get there, but they can't go anywhere.
    * So they can take the boat from Underport, but they can't go any farther than the tradehouse level (and possibly can not bind to the leyline node there).

    * They can get a UD race to take them to the L'obsul top where they can bind to the leyline node, but again, they can't go anywhere except that area.

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Very_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 20:06 PM 

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That was the original idea. But c'mon ... A npc who insta-kills new players visiting l'Obsul? Not cool.

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Aeqvinox
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 20:47 PM 

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He will insta-kill an EDR3 dwarven defender, guy's no joke ;p

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 22:10 PM 

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Uh, where is this insta-kill stuff coming from?

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RaveN
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 22:37 PM 

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I think the crane has a chance to drop surfacers off the world (or crush them). I think it's awesome personally.

Though, given that I feel death should mean more, killing someone in this way, and having them inevitably revive anyways sort of does cheapen the impact of death as a whole. So... perhaps if it threw them somewhere, and did % based damage instead?

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Very_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 23:17 PM 

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Remove it And let surfacers go up/down as they please. Let discrimination be at the hands of players and DM'S.

Scripted discrimination works... it really doesnt work.

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Shroud
 
PostPosted: Tue, May 13 2014, 3:43 AM 

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I think you may want to reconsider your verbal presentation. You're in no position to make demands.

The higher the risk a surfacer has meeting some sudden and violent consequences down here, the better. Our Underdark is quite softcore as it is. It's also unrealistic to assume that all (or any) surfacers would specificly request a DM to oversee their little adventures down under-- scheduling is usually a nightmare, after all. Some kind of mechanical, automated representation of the dangers of Underdark is the best we can get without active DM oversight. I agree, though, that most anyone who died to a "crane accident" would come to life five minutes later, making the whole event rather pointless.

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Anatida
 
PostPosted: Tue, May 13 2014, 5:09 AM 

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I have been to L'obsul with one char that was not a UD race. It was an earth genasi. The crane operator refused to take her anywhere, and when she tried one of the social skills she was thrown to the bottom of the shaft and took like 900 HP worth of dmg. I don't know if she just failed the check, or if it is possible to succeed at all.

I agree with Shroud though. I do not think it should be removed. Surfacers shouldn't be allowed to just run all over the UD like they were born to it.

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Tue, May 13 2014, 6:03 AM 

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Ah, so it's basically something that only happens if you try to coerce the operator to take you, then? That makes more sense and seems far more reasonable haha.

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Anatida
 
PostPosted: Tue, May 13 2014, 6:56 AM 

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Naivatkal wrote:
Ah, so it's basically something that only happens if you try to coerce the operator to take you, then? That makes more sense and seems far more reasonable haha.

Indeed!

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