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Bobo_Underhill
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 Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 1:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Location: The Drone Star State
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No, you really kinda do have to tumble dump. The problem with 'perpetual low AC' is something you're not going to be able to overcome if you don't take tumble.
_________________
Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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Vaul Tarrith
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 2:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Location: 9th Circle of Hell...with the steaks and Rum
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When people post AC numbers like that, it takes into account many things not available to you without assistance. Here's reality on that build:
Base (10), Full plate + tower shield (21), dex bonus (22), +4 deflection, armor, shield, natural, and dodge (42), armor skin (44), cross-class tumble (47).
Without +5 gear, it's 47. That's it.
If you tumble-dump, it's 50. Get a 15+ cleric buddy to cast magic vestment (52), maybe shield of faith (53), then add a bard song &/or mage armor for extra dodge (58-60). Throw Divine Shield and laugh for a few rounds.
If you're a tumble-dump melee character, without assistance, 50-53 is a real, attainable, respectable AC mark.
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psycho
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 4:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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I've got an idea of a concept for a character, in brief it's a - Holy Archer- template where, up till now, i've figured this much out.
Race: Elf
Levels: Paladin15, Sorceror1, Arcane Archer14
Approximate stats:
Str:10 (with items and bull's = 20)
Dex: 18 ( 30 with items)
Con:10 ( maybe 14-16 with items)
Int:10
Wis:14
Cha:16 ( end 40, all level ups put into it)
I've made the calculations, and it -should- net around 51-52 AB with the "meagre" 30 dex with the arcane archer +7 arrows, aid, bless, +5 bow, etc....
Damage wise though, it should be pretty wicked with 1d8+ 15(divine might)+7(AA arrows) +5(mighty) +7(2d6 arrows) for an average of around 38-39 damage per arrow PLUS four if needed with divine favor.
Your thoughts? Could that be a viable build for Amia as a support character?
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 4:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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That works well. You should take Extend Spell, if you didn't already mean to.
Edit to add: Wizard instead of Sorcerer will help you avoid an XP penalty. Up to you if that's worth the few extra True Strikes you'll want.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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O'Raghailligh
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 6:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ
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Analog Kid wrote: So, I'm sorta taking it that with out the tumble dump cheese powerbuilding technique, there really isn't much to solve the perpetual low ac for builds such as the one I'm describing? ....anyone....? O.o Cross-class Tumble for 3 AC as opposed to 6. Not a huge difference, and you don't need to puke all over your keyboard every time you login your character and see that awful "Rogue" word on your character sheet.
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CelestialDante
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 7:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
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I've been playing my paladin for years now and is my main character, he does have a few ac +5 items.
Alamut, 58 ab is pretty good in my opinion *thumbs up*
_________________
Sir Azeriel El'johnson - Tormtar and Triadic Knight
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Murex
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 10:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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This is an unusual build that I've been toying with. It will not have any AC, and it relys on stealth and Knockdown. The AB for this build as it is isn't super great, and I want good AB, but I also want lots of sneak attack damage. If anyone has any suggestions on how to make this build better, feel free to comment.
L16 Rogue
L8 Fighter
L6 Shadowdancer
Earth Genasi: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma,
Bonus Feat: Darkvision, Spell-Like Ability: Stoneskin, Racial Change: Outsider
STR: 17 (19)
DEX: 10-12?
CON: 12-14 (14-16)?
INT: 14?
L1 (R) +1 Dodge
L2 (F) +1 Mobility
L3 (R) +1 Weapon Focus: Greataxe
L4 (R) +1 STR
L5 (R)
L6 (R) +1 Knockdown
L7 (R)
L8 (R) +1 STR
L9 (SD) +1 Improved Knockdown
L10 (SD)
L11 (SD)
L12 (SD) +1 Stealthy +1 STR
L13 (R)
L14 (SD)
L15 (SD) +1 Great Fortitude?
L16 (R) +1 STR
L17 (R) (+1 Rogue:?)
L18 (R) +1 Toughness
L19 (R)
L20 (R) (+1 Rogue:?) +1 STR
L21 (R) +1 Improved Sneak Attack
L22 (R)
L23 (R) (+1 Rogue:?)
L24 (F) +2 Skill Focus: Hide, Skill Focus: Move Silently +1 STR
L25 (F)
L26 (F) +1 Improved Sneak Attack
L27 (F) +1 Improved Sneak Attack
L28 (F) +1 Improved Sneak Attack +1 STR
L29 (F)
L30 (F) +2 Improved Sneak Attack, Improved Sneak Attack
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Ulir
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 12:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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You should be able to get 44 or 45 AB with that build, if you picked EWF and Epic Prowess with a base str of 26.
Why pick skill focus hide in epic? I made a slightly similar build once I have lying around you can look at and compare stuff to.
Rogue 11/Fighter 6/Shadowdancer 13
Race: Air Genasi
Diety: -
Alignment: -
Str: 18 ~ 26
Dex: 16 - 18
Con: 10
Int: 10 - 12
Wis: 8 - 6
Cha: 8 - 6
AB: 44 (with +5 weapon)
AC: 50 (with haste)
1 R - Feats: Luck of Heroes, Toughness
2 R
3 F - Feats: Weapon Proficiency: Exotic, Dodge
4 R - Str: 19
5 R
6 R - Feat: Mobility
7 R
8 R - Str: 20, Skill dump (hide, ms, tumble)
9 SD - Feat: Great Fortitude
10 SD
11 SD
12 SD - Feat: Improved Critical: Scythe, Str: 21, Lesser Shadowjump
13 SD
14 SD - HiPS
15 SD - Feat: Weapon Focus: Scythe
16 SD - Str: 22
17 R
18 F - Feats: Blindfight, ?
19 F
20 F - Feat: Weapon Specialization, Str: 23
21 SD - Feat: Epic Weapon Focus
22 SD - Greater Shadowjump
23 R
24 R - Feat: Armor Skin, Crippling Strike, Str: 24
25 SD
26 SD
27 SD - Feats: Epic Shadow Lord, Great Strength I
28 F - Str: 26
29 F - Feat: Epic Weapon Specialization
30 R - Feat: Epic Prowess, Sneak +6d6
_________________ 
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Vaul Tarrith
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 12:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Location: 9th Circle of Hell...with the steaks and Rum
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Murex wrote: Strength-based Dancer Stuff This is a tough build to pull off, ESPECIALLY as a two-hander. As you sent it, the mechanics are wrong: you can't take Imp Sneak on a Fighter level...and I don't think you can take ANY skill focus feat as a bonus fighter feat, either. You also only get 3 attacks per round as it's built, and your base AB pre-epic is 13. Between that and the abysmally low AC, you'll be a serious liability. I'd consider 4 Fighter / 12 Rogue / 4 SD pre-epic. That gets you to 16 BAB & 4 attacks per round. In epic, go 2 SD / 6 Fighter / 2 Rogue, maybe? That'll end at 10 Fighter / 6 SD / 14 Rogue. I'd suggest going to 16 Rogue but I think the extra Fighter feats will be a better investment. With 26 Strength using a +5 weapon, your ending AB will be 44: this will require you to take EWF and EP on Fighter levels, and you may as well grab EWS while you're at it. That only leaves you 4 other epic-level feats, of which Armor Skin is a must. As stealth-dependent as this build is, I'd also say ESF: Hide & Move are absolutely necessary, as well. That leaves 1 epic feat for Imp Sneak (NOT recommended) or Epic Fort / ESF: Discipline. Also, keep in mind that HiPS has a 6-second cooldown, and with your AC as low as it'll be (chain shirt w/+4 Dex bonus and ALL +5 gear will get you to 46; any other option w/o serious Dex is worse due to skill penalties to Hide)...you'll be on your back and/or looking at the respawn screen quite a bit. **edit** Ulir's build is a much more solid one, but less sneak. The Epic Shadowlord will be a big help in PvM, and the ability to get to 30 Dex buffed lets you wear no armor (so no Hide/Move penalties) and gets you 2 more AC.
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Vaul Tarrith
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 14:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Location: 9th Circle of Hell...with the steaks and Rum
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While I'm posting stuff...
According to The Wiki, Death Attack ignores mind immunity for it's paralyze effect. On Amia, does Braining Blow &/or Blade of Terror ignore mind immunity?
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Murex
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 16:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Thanks.
Just two questions: How good is the Epic Shadow Lord, and What is the AB needed pre-epic to get four attacks?
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IronAngel
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 16:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 16:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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O'Raghailligh wrote: Analog Kid wrote: So, I'm sorta taking it that with out the tumble dump cheese powerbuilding technique, there really isn't much to solve the perpetual low ac for builds such as the one I'm describing? ....anyone....? O.o Cross-class Tumble for 3 AC as opposed to 6. Not a huge difference, and you don't need to puke all over your keyboard every time you login your character and see that awful "Rogue" word on your character sheet. Or you can go bard/monk as well. Monk typically is better for a Paladin in my eyes, unless you want UMD as well. Course, Bard fixes that.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Murex
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 17:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Okay, I think this is better, but I don't know if the base attack bonus table calculates strength into the equation or not (I assume it does though).
4 Fighter
19 Rogue
7 Shadowdancer
Skills needed- Hide: 10, Move Silently: 8, Tumble: 5
Earth Genasi: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma,
Bonus Feat: Darkvision, Spell-Like Ability: Stoneskin, Racial Change: Outsider
STR: 17 (19)
DEX: 10-12
CON: 12-14 (14-16)
INT: 14
L1 (R) +1 Dodge
L2 (F) +1 Mobility
L3 (F) +2 Weapon Focus: Greataxe
L4 (F) +1 STR
L5 (F) +1 Weapon Specialization: Greataxe
L6 (R) +1 Knockdown
L7 (R)
L8 (SD) +1 STR
L9 (SD) +1 Improved Knockdown
L10 (SD)
L11 (SD)
L12 (SD) +1 Stealthy +1 STR
L13 (SD)
L14 (R)
L15 (SD) +1 Great Fortitude
L16 (R) +1 STR
L17 (R)
L18 (R) +1 Toughness
L19 (R)
L20 (R) +1 STR
L21 (R) +1 Epic Weapon Focus
L22 (R)
L23 (R)
L24 (R) +1 Epic Weapon Specialization +1 STR
L25 (R)
L26 (R)
L27 (R) +1 Epic Prowess
L28 (R) +1 STR
L29 (R)
L30 (R) +1 Epic Skill Focus: Discipline
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 18:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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That level 24 needs to be Fighter if you want Epic Weapon Specialisation. I'd take the level off of SD rather than Rogue as 19 Rogue is a Bonus Feat and 7SD is nothing important.
You're also better off delaying your 5th and 6th level in SD until Epic Levels in order to maximize your BAB. BAB is based purely on class upto level 20 and in order to get 16 for 4 attacks you need a minimal number of +0 BAB Class Levels (Which is level 1,5,9,13,17 in 3/4 classes such as Rogue and SD). In general that means 4 attacks is only possible with either a shitload of full BAB classes, or 4 fighter levels and other classes taken in multiples of 4.
A 19Rogue/5Fighter/6Shadowdancer (12/4/4 @ 20) would work nicely enough, I think.
Last edited by -Cloak-and-Dagger- on Tue, May 22 2012, 18:34 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Bini
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Posted: Tue, May 22 2012, 18:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Epic Weapon Specialization can only be taken on a fighter or Divine Champion level, you need at least 13 dexterity for dodge or mobility. If your taking human as your base class for the Genasi, make sure to include your racial bonus feat. Your missing your rogue bonus feats at level 30,27, and 24. Your investing heavily into discipline, but lack discipline as a class skill at epic levels. The base attack table does not add strength to calculate for attacks per round. Edit: What Cloak and Dagger said!  _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 1:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Location: The Drone Star State
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Naivatkal wrote: O'Raghailligh wrote: Analog Kid wrote: So, I'm sorta taking it that with out the tumble dump cheese powerbuilding technique, there really isn't much to solve the perpetual low ac for builds such as the one I'm describing? ....anyone....? O.o Cross-class Tumble for 3 AC as opposed to 6. Not a huge difference, and you don't need to puke all over your keyboard every time you login your character and see that awful "Rogue" word on your character sheet. Or you can go bard/monk as well. Monk typically is better for a Paladin in my eyes, unless you want UMD as well. Course, Bard fixes that. I'd be very interested to see how you build a Paladin/Bard.
_________________
Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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Vaul Tarrith
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Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 2:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Location: 9th Circle of Hell...with the steaks and Rum
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Vaul Tarrith wrote: According to The Wiki, Death Attack ignores mind immunity for it's paralyze effect. On Amia, does Braining Blow &/or Blade of Terror ignore mind immunity? Anyone have a clue on this?
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ILoveIceCream
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Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 2:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Location: California
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Bobo_Underhill wrote:
I'd be very interested to see how you build a Paladin/Bard.
you be a pally all the way to level 28 or 29, do something chaotic so a dm makes you CN take some singing lessons then reattone and go back to LG.
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Bini
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Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 2:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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I think a DM would catch on to someone abusing the system that way.  _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 2:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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ILoveIceCream wrote: Bobo_Underhill wrote:
I'd be very interested to see how you build a Paladin/Bard.
you be a pally all the way to level 28 or 29, do something chaotic so a dm makes you CN take some singing lessons then reattone and go back to LG. loooool I was thinking Cleric/Bard XD For some reason, I was thinking about my Lolth cleric that will be taking 1 bard later on lol
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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CelestialDante
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Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 20:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
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I'm not sure I'f I've done this monk build right.... I'm at level 27 currently but by level 30 i will have about 60ac and about 42ab buffed and i will be snatching up epic dodge.
My concern in the build is when I hear folks get their ac up to 70 and this is the apparent "standard" for monks. What does everyone else think?
EDIT: when i say buffed i mean with potions etc, not haste and gmw
_________________
Sir Azeriel El'johnson - Tormtar and Triadic Knight
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 21:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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10 Base AC
+ 22 from Dexterity and Wisdom (32)
+ 4 from Monk levels (36)
+ 17 from generic equipment (53)
+ 6 from Tumble (59)
+ 2 from Armor Skin (61)
Final AC without buffs (save for maxed Dexterity and Wisdom) = 61.
This can be raised to 66 with Mage Armor and Haste, to 69 with +5 equipment and if you include the Dodge feat, you're at 70. It's not really a realistic number to shoot for unless you're really well equipped, though.
_________________  "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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PeerlessArch
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Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 1:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2010
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Did I read somewhere in this thread where alignment restrictions were removed for Lawful/Monk or Non-Lawful/Bard where you can multiclass Bard/Monk? Or am I making things up?
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 1:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Location: The Drone Star State
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I play a bard myself. The Lawful requirement is still there.
_________________
Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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Bini
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Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 3:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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It's all that bars Lilia from her destiny.  _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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PeerlessArch
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Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 3:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2010
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Aww, was looking to do strange bard/monk combo but I guess thats out of the question.
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Tacka
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Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 9:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
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Quote: dorf
8ftr/18dd/4cot
pre 7f/10dd/3cot
epic 1dd/1f/3dd/1cot/4dd
S 16 - 20
D 14
C 18 - 22
W 8
I 12
C 6
1+f Luck of heroes, Weapon proficiency (exotic);
2=f Weapon focus;
3 Toughness;
4=f Weapon specialization;
6+f Dodge, Knockdown;
9 Improved Critical;
12 Iron will;
15 Lightning reflexes;
18 Great fortitude;
19=cot Blind fighting.
21 Epic weapon focus;
22=f Epic weapon specialization;
24 Epic damage reduction;
25=dd Epic damage reduction;
26=cot Epic damage reduction;
27 Great strength;
30+dd Armor skin, Epic prowess.
skills 33 Discipline, 15 Tumble, 33 Heal, 1 Pick pocket.
Hp 546
saves 31 20 19
Ab base - 34
Ac w/ +4 gear - 47 Any advise on how to make him more formidable? I'd rather not add rogue levels to the mix, some extra AC and UMD ain't worth it, imo. If this one sucks too much, can anyone give me tips on barbarians?Edit: Scratch the barbarian part, how could I insert 5 or 7 levels of WM into this?
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The1Kobra
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Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 17:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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Tacka wrote: Any advise on how to make him more formidable? I'd rather not add rogue levels to the mix, some extra AC and UMD ain't worth it, imo. If this one sucks too much, can anyone give me tips on barbarians?
Edit: Scratch the barbarian part, how could I insert 5 or 7 levels of WM into this? I actually had a fighter/WM/DD build planned, it should be reasonably solid. It won't get DV crit, or the EDR, but it should hit reasonably hard and the DD damage reduction should help you stay on your feet. Personally I think stacking DD with EDR is going a bit -too- much for defense, you sacrifice a lot of offense to do that. Anyways, here it is: 8/7/15 Fighter/Weapon Master/Dwarven Defender 17/13/16/14/8/6 Pre-epic: 6 Ftr, 6 WM, 8 DD Epic: 8/7/15 Feats: Pre-epic(7+4F): Weapon Focus, Dodge, Mobility, Expertise, Spring Attack, WW Attack, Toughness, IMPR Crit, Blind Fight, Knockdown, Weapon Specialization Epic(4+1DD+1F): G-Str 1, G-Str 2, Epic Weapon Focus, Armor Skin, Epic Prowess, Epic Weapon Specialization 26/13/16/14/8/6 Final AB: 20+5+4+1+14+5 = 49 For your weapon, battleaxe and warhammer are the most dwarfey. Personally I'd suggest warhammer, but the axe should work too. EDIT: I modified the build slightly, I made an error. I moved WS pre-epic and removed IKD. I suppose you could get IKD if you want, though you'd have to scrap epic prowess. Sorry about that. _________________ I play: 
Last edited by The1Kobra on Sat, May 26 2012, 15:50 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Tacka
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Posted: Fri, May 25 2012, 16:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
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Ts_
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Posted: Sat, May 26 2012, 14:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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So ... After a long, long break I think I'm about to return to Amia. I want to discover Amia again and for that I thought about starting in the Underdark for the first time. I don't want to be a drow, though. I'd rather play a more brutish character with simpler RP.
Buildwise I thought about a ranged character, because I don't have one of those yet. I still don't care about PvP that much, so the character would need to be only competent enough for party PvE. Now, ranged stuff seems to be complicated, at least without Arcane Archer. I wouldn't mind playing a caster Cleric with a bit of Zen Archery, but then it's not as brutish as I would want it.
So far, I thought mostly about a Devcritting Zen Throwing Axe Cleric Ogrillion. Something like Cleric 15 / Fighter 12 / Rogue 2 seems to have enough feats and can get the STR 25, WIS 18 reasonably well. It's a bit skill-starved, though, even if I dump CHA to 6 ...
It's good enough for self-buffing and should be good in ranged, but could also switch to melee when needed, I think.
Important feats this build gets (I think) should be Devcrit, EWF, EWS, Point Blank Shot, Blindfight, Extend, Maximize. Sadly, it has no KD and no Rapid Shot (because DEX 13 is way too high for me).
But the RP ... While brutish, the high WIS and probably full plate + shield seems a bit too sophisticated for an Ogrillion, although I guess INT 10 or 12 and high WIS does justify it. Also, Orogs are supposed to be the UD Orcs, not Ogrillions, but Orog makes that build pretty impossible ... (Tuigan would be a good choice as well, but how a Tuigan ended up starting in the UD?!)
Any comments/ideas? Thanks!
Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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serbiris
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Posted: Sat, May 26 2012, 15:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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You could go some sort of dragon disciple. Whitekin, or shadowkin might be better (I think shadow dragons do tend to be found deep in the UD, as do deep dragons but that would require a special request which you may or may not wish to pursue). You'd only need 4 levels or something for a decent strength boost (thus you'd be able to get devcrit and still have a respectable wis) but I'd suggest 10 DD levels simply because the RP is fun and you can work the dumbish-dragon into the brute theme.
For race, duergar might be possible except the cha penalty will inhibit sorc/bard for DD.
I don't think high wisdom would get much in the way of your concept though.
I'd post more and with more thought than a vague "Make a DD! DDs are great!" but I have to do stuff. Will edit stuff into this if no one replies.
Edit: nevermind, apparently alcohol makes it difficult to use words and give build advice/.
_________________
@Thanatopsis#6293
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Ts_
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Posted: Sun, May 27 2012, 7:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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First: Thanks anyway.
Now, I think I'm giving up DevCrit for a more average build. This opens up a ton of feats and attributes.
That gives me (after Ogrillion)
STR 16 -> 18
DEX 13
CON 12
WIS 13 -> 18
INT 14
CHA 8
Rogue 1 / Fighter 6 / Cleric 13 (BAB 15)
-> Rogue 2 / Fighter 12 / Cleric 15
Feats:
Blindfight, KD, IKD
Zen Archery, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec (Throwing Axe)
Extend, Maximize Spell
1 more preepic
EWF, EWS (Throwing Axe)
Epic Prowess
Armorskin, Epic Fort
Epic Spot
Skills: 158 points total
Spot 30 (+ Epic Skill Focus)
Disc 32
Conc 30
Tumble 30
Spellcraft 30
leftover 6
By the way: I'm purposefully taking BAB 15 instead of 16 in preepic so that Divine Power adds the 4th attack at a higher AB. But, I already expect a second sequence of attacks from Rapid Shot and Haste, so it's really a third attack again and more AB and less reliance on Buffs wouldn't hurt either.
So ...
Did I miss something important? (Besides that I'll have trouble in the Underdark ...)
BAb 16 preepic?
One more preepic feat: Power Attack? Luck of Heroes? Skill Focus Spot?
(I could remove 2 Fighter levels from preepic, lose that 1 extra feat, but gain Level 9 spells. But then I would also need to get WIS 19 from somewhere, mostly from CHA or CON. I suppose I could also swap an epic feat for Great WIS, because WIS 19 is ugly ... But then again, I don't know ...)
Thanks again
Ts
PS: Ogrillion isn't a good choice for this build. I want it, though, as Orog would be even worse. Half-orc might work, but half-orc is only half as brutish.
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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Sun, May 27 2012, 8:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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First issue: Divine Power will not give you a 4th attack like you think it will.
Second issue: I'm not sure if you're aware, but IKD will not work with a ranged weapon.
Third issue: Your caster level is balls. You'll be terribly dissatisfied, trust me.
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Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Ts_
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Posted: Sun, May 27 2012, 9:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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DerkDerkistan wrote: First issue: Divine Power will not give you a 4th attack like you think it will. Huh? Oh, Amia changed that. Well, then BAB 16 is obviously better. Thanks! I guess I should look at the other modified Cleric spells as well ... DerkDerkistan wrote: Second issue: I'm not sure if you're aware, but IKD will not work with a ranged weapon. I am aware of that. It's for switching to melee once in a while and actually being able to do something there. I admit, it could be left out, though. DerkDerkistan wrote: Third issue: Your caster level is balls. You'll be terribly dissatisfied, trust me. I thought Cleric CL 15 is somewhat okay for a fighting cleric? I don't want to cast offensively. But, if I remove KD, IKD, I could probably leave out a lot of Fighter levels and go for a much more casterish cleric ... Back to the drawing board, it is. Thanks Ts
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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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Ts_
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Posted: Sun, May 27 2012, 15:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Char created and unique like a snowflake. Yay! ... No more advice needed because it would just make me feeld bad about my abilities.
Ts
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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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The True Flambomski
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 7:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: On a Chair
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Playing a Wizard, as A lot of people do
Not a necro or evil wizard, and not a Pm either >:)
Im just Dumping all of my Available skill points into INT, But heres the Rundown of what I got Feat-Wise and Skill-Wise
Race: Kobold
Class: Wizard!
(Current Level : 17)
Skills : Concentration
Lore - 28 (Regular usage, and RP)
Spellcraft - 28 (RP and regular usage)
Craft Weapon / Craft Armour - 26 (Both, Mythal'ing)
Appraise - 16 (RP AND getting Hilrash to stop stealing all my Money!)
Persuade - 5 (RP purposes)
Base Abilities - Current Level of 17 abilities
STR - 8 STR - 8
DEX - 12 DEX - 12
CON - 14 CON - 14
WIS - 8 WIS - 8
INT - 18 INT - 22
CHA - 10 CHA - 10
Gear? - Mostly things with INT, (Entirely things with INT) capping mine at 34 now ( I need to remove some INT from some things, im over the Cap)
And Skill Boosters
Feats? (I cant remember which order I took them in, But)
- Spell Pen
- Courtious Magocracy
- Empower Spell
- Extend Spell
- Spell Focus / Greater Spell focus - Conjuration and Transmutation
- Spell Focus - Evocation
Is it Viable to take 4 Levels of Divine Champion (Its Following TEMPUS) For bonus feats in Epic levels? And what could I expect to get from that
Also any Suggestions on what I should Do about the ridiculously low AC and death by Traps? ;(
- OH! and what Spells should I be Taking, I have a lot of low level ones, but any that are non-standard takings, like Mind sap or Scintilating Sphere? (I have Scint not MS)
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Flambom The Evil
Playing as: Meesh The Battlemage
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Ts_
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 10:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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The True Flambomski wrote: Im just Dumping all of my Available skill points into INT Good. Make sure you end on an even number of INT when it's all done. With INT 18 -> 25, you need at least one epic skill Great INT. The True Flambomski wrote: Gear? - Mostly things with INT, (Entirely things with INT) capping mine at 34 now ( I need to remove some INT from some things, im over the Cap) Actually, if you trust your spellcasting abilities, you only need INT +7 during your day gear and use a Maximized spell to buff it to +12. Only during the night you should put up the +12 INT gear (and any extra spell slots). Also, try to arrange the spells so that the rightmost slots are used first, while keeping the leftmost slots filled with stuff needed in an emergency. The True Flambomski wrote: Feats? You're missing Maximized spell, which is standard for buffing abilities with a reliable +5. The True Flambomski wrote: Feats? Is it Viable to take 4 Levels of Divine Champion (Its Following TEMPUS) For bonus feats in Epic levels? And what could I expect to get from that[/quote] Well, you can, but I wouldn't. Wizard gets a bonus feat every 3 levels in epic, and you really want to be as much wizard as possible. If you want a cheap bonus feat, try one level of Ranger in epic. It gives an Epic Spell Focus immediately. The True Flambomski wrote: Also any Suggestions on what I should Do about the ridiculously low AC and death by Traps? ;( Traps? Possess your familiar and run over them ... (Or ask a party member to do the same.) Low AC? Tons of buffs. There's also the Epic Mage Armor spell, which solves that problem quite well. Not sure if it that is the best investment of an epic feat, but it is quite comfortable. Also, try not to get hid ... Stay behind, use invisibility etc. The True Flambomski wrote: - OH! and what Spells should I be Taking, I have a lot of low level ones, but any that are non-standard takings, like Mind sap or Scintilating Sphere? (I have Scint not MS) Well ... As a wizard, you should sooner or later have them all. Try shopping around for scrolls. You can ask other players for them as well, they might be able to know where to buy them or can scribe them for you. The low-level spells contain tons of good buffs. Besides the maximized abilities for yourself and teammates/summons/familiars, you want Haste (later Mass Haste). Improved Invisibility is a must. Greater Magic Weapon, Flame Weapon, Keen Edge, Stoneskin, Energy Buffer, (Lesser) Mind Blank ... Offensive, I think the highest-level summon plus some nice buffs on it is better than directly blasting enemies because it will last a lot longer. Of course, a bit of extra blasting doesn't hurt, though. I can't remember good low-level spells, right now, though. Negative Energy Burst on Level 3 is nice for weakening opponents, iirc, but it's not direct damage. That's all that I can think of right now, and take it with a lot of salt because I haven't played my wizard in 2 years ... Have fun Ts
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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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QPR
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 11:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Question about trident: I understand that weapon focus does not give the correct bonus, but is this also true for Epic weapon focus and Epic prowess regarding tridents?
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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 13:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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QPR wrote: Question about trident: I understand that weapon focus does not give the correct bonus, but is this also true for Epic weapon focus and Epic prowess regarding tridents? I believe the other feats work properly. Certainly Prowess should, given that it's a universal bonus regardless of what weapon is being used. I don't know if there is a way around that problem. Perhaps if you take the feat and play the character long enough to be willing to invest a couple of DCs into it, a request for a Trident with Enhancement Bonus +5 and Attack Bonus +6(Or +8 if Epic also isn't working) would be acceptable to the DMs.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 13:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Ts_ wrote: The True Flambomski wrote: Gear? - Mostly things with INT, (Entirely things with INT) capping mine at 34 now ( I need to remove some INT from some things, im over the Cap) Actually, if you trust your spellcasting abilities, you only need INT +7 during your day gear and use a Maximized spell to buff it to +12. Only during the night you should put up the +12 INT gear (and any extra spell slots). Also, try to arrange the spells so that the rightmost slots are used first, while keeping the leftmost slots filled with stuff needed in an emergency. Incorrect, because a Wiz needs to prepare and rest for spells. And when you rest, your buffs are gone, so the +5 from Cunning is wasted. That would only work for a Sorc (I think?). Ts_ wrote: The True Flambomski wrote: Also any Suggestions on what I should Do about the ridiculously low AC and death by Traps? ;( Traps? Possess your familiar and run over them ... (Or ask a party member to do the same.) Low AC? Tons of buffs. There's also the Epic Mage Armor spell, which solves that problem quite well. Not sure if it that is the best investment of an epic feat, but it is quite comfortable. Also, try not to get hid ... Stay behind, use invisibility etc. I seriously cannot believe you suggested that. A good Wiz would never flagrantly risk their familiar like that.
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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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LedaMarie
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 13:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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With any class that uses spell slots, so far as I have noticed, if you buff out your stat with gear, rest, and replace it by buffs of magic, then remove the gear, you still lose the slots. Cleric, pally, sorc, wiz, whatever.
_________________ Plays.... 
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Ts_
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 14:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Naivatkal wrote: Incorrect, because a Wiz needs to prepare and rest for spells. And when you rest, your buffs are gone, so the +5 from Cunning is wasted. Actually, not what I meant nor wrote. You use +12 INT/WIS/CHA gear to rest, but then cast the +5 Buff and switch to +7 gear when you actually do stuff. It might not be worth the trouble, but can make gearing a lot easier. Of course, if you can fit everything and +12 INT on your gear, even better ... The same goes for spell-slot providing items. You might be able to remove them during the day, if you're willing to arrange your spell slots carefully and know what you will use first. Naivatkal wrote: I seriously cannot believe you suggested that. A good Wiz would never flagrantly risk their familiar like that. Well, my familiar can be an annoying loudmouth ... I think he reads the forums while unsummoned, so I won't say what or what not I will do to him. That should keep him at least a little bit in line. (But rest assured, if I want to, I can disarm traps well enough.) Regards Ts
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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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LedaMarie
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 14:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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If you're going to be a spellsword, then splitting your stat boosts might be necessary. If you're a straight caster, I've easily maxed int and also had a good dump of dex for AC.
_________________ Plays....
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QPR
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 17:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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So, pre-epic feats for a pure human bard using a short spear (trident): Blind Fight, Curse song, extend spell, KD, IKD, imp crit, maximise spell, WF
My uncertainty is wether to go for KD/IKD or drop it in favour of skill focus perform and great fort. As WF: Trident does nothing, and base BAB will be 15 at 20, I'm unsure how viable IKD is, even with curse song. Anyone got any thoughts on that?
Second: Just how terrible are tridents in the long run? It saves me a feat, but costs me 1 AB, and I'm unsure if there exist any good ones in the module at all.
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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 18:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Location: The Drone Star State
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I'd go 4 full BAB classes in pre-epic if you're not going pure bard. KD/IKD are pretty useful on a bard. My bard can KD some critters in the Abyss sometimes. Skill Focus Perform isn't worth the spot, imo.
Tridents are that viable. It's pretty much just for style points, though, since there are better one-handing weapons, and there's not a large selection of them in the module.
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Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 18:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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I wonder, if you were to find a nice Spear (Warforged aside, as they are balanced for 2 hands), could you persuade a DM to convert it into a Shortspear? I mean, really, all that it would take in real terms is to take an axe to the end of the shaft and hey presto!
Considering that WF:Trident is non functional, and there are not (many?) nice Tridents, I think it would be a reasonable request.
Alternatively, if you're not willing to forgo a shield and use a proper Spear, why not the Morningstar? Morningstar is worth lots of cool points. Dual damage type too. Very nice.
And I agree that SF:Perform is a waste. Its only +3, which is...meh. I would never take SF unless required as a prerequisite for something or was trying to get 127 in a skill.
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QPR
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 18:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Trident is for style, yus. Second after a longsword, I find it the most suitable for a norse skald type. The reason i consider SF is because of the high perform needed to get the full effect out of the level 30 bard song, and any bit helps there I guess.
Morningstar would work splendidly mechanic wise, and I did consider it, but I found it very.... un-norsy. I would be happy to be proven wrong on that point though.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 18:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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Ah, well, I can understand that.
But! The joy of Bard RP means that your Skald guy is inevitably going to be well travelled. Perhaps, having left home as a naive unarmed youngster, he's forced to pick up the strange and foreign (but super cool) Morningstar somewhere far from home for some reason...and that can be part of your background.
Alas, Maces, Daggers(Unless correctly assigned to an appropiate Cloak) and Clubs are nowhere near as fun.
Have you considered Crossbow?
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QPR
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Posted: Mon, May 28 2012, 18:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Ranged weapons are pretty much out. The idea for this char is a warrior-bard that leads and inspires from the front, both to get first-hand experience to write about, and second to build his own reputation as the warrior he aspires to be. Longbow -could- have worked RP wise, but they are quite 'meh' unless you are an AA. I guess i could just postpone WF to later levels and decide then, since it won't make a difference if I go trident anyway. Morningstar is tempting, but I still think trident beats it when it comes to looks. I guess I will have to play around with different armour and weapon appearence combination to find the most effective and norsy weapon.
Now if only bards had more skil points, I could invest in craft weapon and maybe make something cool. Oh well.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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