AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

Only a few (two) rare crossbows with keen out there.

I can't help but restart this thread when neglected.

Someone once asked for a skald build, and I did try to make one that would favor both bard and barbarian equally, getting the best of both worlds and being able to represent either class. Yeah, no Lasting Inspiration, but you can and will kick ass when going lyrically berserk, especially with ferocity attack (not to forget Keen Edge and GMW not being able to be dispelled).

Barbarian 15/Bard 15

Race: Human

Str: 15 - 22
Dex: 8
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 15

AB: 43 (53+ with buffs, rage, etc.)
AC: 67 (tops with unyielding rage etc.)

Skills (198):
Taunt 33
Tumble 30
Perform 21 (24 with +3 cha mod)
Spellcraft 14
Discipline 30
Intimidate 33 (DC-50 fear easily without gear bonuses)
Concentration 20
Use Magic Device 17

SPELLS (what I would pick)
********
Level 1: Balagarn's Iron Horn, Summon Creature I, Mage Armor, Protection From Alignment - (5/day)
Level 2: Invisibility, Darkness, Eagle's Splendor, Clarity - (4/day)
Level 3: Greater Magic Weapon, Keen Edge, Haste, Wounding Whispers - (4/day)
Level 4: Improved Invisibility, War Cry, Neutralize Poison, Legend Lore - (3/day)
Level 5: Mind Fog, Ethereal Visage, Greater Dispelling, Healing Circle - (2/day)

1 B - Feat: Toughness, Extra Music
2 B
3 B - Feat: Lingering Song
4 B - Str: 16
5 B
6 B - Feat: Curse Song
7 BB
8 BB - Str: 17
9 BB - Feat: Weapon Focus: Longsword (Viking swords)
10 BB
11 BB
12 B - Feat: Improved Critical, Str: 18
13 BB
14 BB
15 BB - Feat: Blind Fight
16 BB - Str: 19
17 BB
18 B - Feat: Extend Spell
19 BB
20 BB - Str: 20
21 B - Feat: Epic Weapon Focus
22 B
23 B
24 B - Feat: Armor Skin, Str: 21
25 BB
26 BB - Skill dump (intimidate)
27 BB - Feat: Terrifying Rage
28 B - Str: 22
29 B
30 B - Feat: Epic Skill Focus: Intimidate

Last edited by Ulir on Tue, Aug 28 2012, 17:10 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Might as well post a few other barbarian builds. Ferocity attack + AA + high fear aura DC = happy times? You can switch out the Improved Critical and Weapon Finesse feat, if you don't want the option to go defensive with quite a neat potential. Otherwise Called Shot and Great Fortitude/dodge would be fine replacements. I usually never count trinkets or external spell scrolls that increase AB in the calculation btw.

Barbarian 24/Bard 1/Arcane Archer 5

Race: Wild elf

Str: 10
Dex: 20 - 28
Con: 12 - 14 (assume the con pops up to 14, as the negative con is replaced by negative int)
Int: 14 - 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

AB: 52 (bow without rage) 58 (with standard rage) 46 (rapier) 52 (with standard rage)
AC: 61 (tops w. bow, unyielding rage, etc.) 69 (tops w. rapier, shield, unyielding rage, etc.)

Skills (169):
Hide 23
Tumble 25
Intimidate 33 (DC-40 fear with a certain item. Good for keeping enemies at bay, eh?)
Spellcraft 24
Discipline 33
Use Magic Device 31

1 B - Feat: Point Blank Shot
2 B
3 B - Feat: Rapid Shot
4 B - Dex: 21
5 B
6 B - Feat: Weapon Focus: Longbow
7 B
8 B - Dex: 22
9 B - Feat: Improved Critical: Longbow
10 B
11 B
12 B - Feat: Weapon Finesse, Dex: 23
13 B
14 B
15 B - Feat: Blindfight
16 B - Dex: 24
17 B
18 B - Feat: Improved Critical: Rapier
19 B
20 B - Dex: 25
21 B - Feat: Epic Weapon Focus
22 B
23 Brd - Skill dump
24 B - Feat: Terrifying Rage, Dex: 26
25 AA
26 AA
27 AA - Feat: Great Dex I
28 AA - Dex: 28
29 AA - Skill dump
30 B - Feats: Armor Skin, Epic Prowess, Skill dump

Ulir, I think you and I could have hours of fun together talking about build concepts, keep up the work on irregular builds!

Ulir wrote:

Only a few (two) rare crossbows with keen out there.

There are no bows in existence with the Keen property? To be honest, I had no idea that Keen could even be added as a property to a ranged weapon. Is it possible to Mythal the Keen property onto a bow?

If not, can we make it so?

P.S. Maybe belongs in the Improving Amia thread... :wink:

Keen bows are not going to happen. Best get cozy with the crossbows if you really like those ranged criticals.

NAUX wrote:

Ulir, I think you and I could have hours of fun together talking about build concepts, keep up the work on irregular builds!

I think so too.

A fisting cleric. Wohoo! Need a reversed birth? Call the fisting clerics!

Cleric 23/Monk 6/Rogue 1

Race: Elf
Alignment: LG/LN/LE
Domains: Topperware, Hotdog

Str: 10
Dex: 18 - 22
Con: 8
Int: 14
Wis: 16 - 20
Cha: 8

AB: 55-57? (buffed approximately)
AC: 68 (tops approximately)

Skills (156):
Tumble 30
Open Lock 1 (or wherever)
Spellcraft 28
Discipline 33
Concentration 33
Use Magic Device 31

1 M - Feat: Dodge
2 C
3 C - Feat: Weapon Finesse
4 C - Wis: 17
5 C
6 C - Feat: Weapon Focus: Unarmed
7 C
8 C - Wis: 18
9 C - Feat: Extend Spell
10 C
11 C
12 C - Feat: Blind Fight, Wis: 19
13 C
14 C
15 C - Feat: Improved Critical
16 C - Wis: 20
17 M
18 C - Feat: Maximize Spell
19 M
20 M - Dex: 19
21 C - Feat: Epic Weapon Focus
22 C
23 C
24 C - Feat: Armor Skin, Dex: 20
25 C
26 M
27 C - Feat: Great Dexterity I
28 C - Feat: Mummy Dust, Skill dump, Dex: 22
29 R - Skill dump
30 M - Feat: Epic Prowess, Skill dump

Ulir wrote:

A fisting cleric. Wohoo! Need a reversed birth? Call the fisting clerics!

Cleric 23/Monk 6/Rogue 1

Race: Elf
Alignment: LG/LN/LE
Domains: Topperware, Hotdog

Str: 10
Dex: 18 - 22
Con: 8
Int: 14
Wis: 16 - 20
Cha: 8

AB: 55-57? (buffed approximately)
AC: 68 (tops approximately)

Skills (156):
Tumble 30
Open Lock 1 (or wherever)
Spellcraft 28
Discipline 33
Concentration 33
Use Magic Device 31

1 M - Feat: Dodge
2 C
3 C - Feat: Weapon Finesse
4 C - Wis: 17
5 C
6 C - Feat: Weapon Focus: Unarmed
7 C
8 C - Wis: 18
9 C - Feat: Extend Spell
10 C
11 C
12 C - Feat: Blind Fight, Wis: 19
13 C
14 C
15 C - Feat: Improved Critical
16 C - Wis: 20
17 M
18 C - Feat: Maximize Spell
19 M
20 M - Dex: 19
21 C - Feat: Epic Weapon Focus
22 C
23 C
24 C - Feat: Armor Skin, Dex: 20
25 C
26 M
27 C - Feat: Great Dexterity I
28 C - Feat: Mummy Dust, Skill dump, Dex: 22
29 R - Skill dump
30 M - Feat: Epic Prowess, Skill dump

Ew, get out.

Also,

Cleric 24/Monk 6

edit for clarification: Eww@ min/maxing. Just, no, people need to stop suggesting things like that.

Haha, I don't see it as min-maxing at all. Low con on an elf is true to the race

Being nimble and possessing normal strength is also not out of the ordinary. Above average intelligence and slightly below average charisma.

I think it fits an elf very neatly. You can always adjust points to your liking of course. 23/6/1 is way cooler.

Slightly gimmick, but performs well enough. I'd personally not bother with Dodge or Epic Prowess, however, but rather opt for Knockdown and Greater Ruin, respectively. Greater Ruin is great for the kicks, so I'm utterly biased. Just follow your fancies on that one.

Joon is 24/6, but he's Strength based with a quarter staff. It's actually a bit shitty now that both Monk AC and Divine Power got nerfed (way to get hit on two fronts!), but still very cool and useful enough.

I'll actually probably have to post his current build here to make sure my last levels go right. I've completely forgotten my plan for him.

I still haven't got an answer about what the Lawful Neutral Outsider from Mummy Dust is? I don't know if I should take it or Magical Beast for an Oghmanyte? Some crazy planar monsters don't seem very fitting, but neither does an angry moose or whatever the magical beast is.

LN outsider is a Githzerai.. or how you spell it. Those that fled to the chaos plane, living in a world of slaad, as far as I recall from the books on planes.

@Opustus: Six monk levels grants you improved knockdown. But yeah, ditching epic prowess is probably a good thing in favor of greater ruin.

Githzerai Savant, some neuter dude with wicked fists and crazy high AC. The damage output of the thing is fairly miserable, so my penchant would be for more muscle from the doggy as far as your build is concerned.

And bugger me sideways. I'll re-educate myself about the basic mechanics of the game before ever entering this arena again.

Reskin ahoy? Githzerai are no fun at all!

I always liked the Invisible Stalker as a creature. That has great potential for ....ahem. Seeking.

Mimics are cool, too. But I don't know why you would have one on a string.

Also, Sphinx. They're intellectual.

Githzerai Savant sounds rather good for someone who wishes to know this world, though. But yes, I've long wanted to get a sphinx. Too bad the NWN models are a little stiff. Magical beast might work better for that. What does the invisible stalker look like in the game? I haven't seen almost any of the creatures (or even the items) added by the HAKs so I don't really know what options I have.

Oh, its not a hak creature. It looks a lot the Shades/Shadows, except it has white eyes instead of red. Its more of a Transparent Stalker OOCly. Which is a shame, because it's one of the coolest critters in the monster manual.

Question.
Spell Focus conjuration increases the duration of summons yes?

No. It simply increases the DC of Conjuration spells. However, Epic Spell Focus in Conjuration extends the duration of Dragon Knight to turns/level from rounds/level, and of two of the Mummy Dust types (Outsider and Magical Beast) from turn/level to hour/level (which is about twice the duration, I think).

Huh. That's a bugger.
Ah well, my PM will have some shortlived summons then.

PM has the winterwight.

Enlisting the aid of whoever feels inclined to do so in helping me fine-tune a concept and make it happen mechanically! (AKA, I have an idea but I'm not sure how to pull it off without gimping myself in the process).

I want to make an explorer type of character. Someone that feels at home both in the city and the wild (though preferring the comfyness of a nice, warm bed over a night spent out in the rain under the threat of being eaten by a pack of wolves) as well as in the presence of both paladin and blackguard - Someone who doesn't lean toward either end of the Good/Evil spectrum.
Basically a character that will aim to compile an encyclopedia of sorts about Amia. The important places, "the" people to know, heroes, villains, where to find some action, where to get drunk.. stuff like that.

For this, I had originally thought of a Bard. From a roleplay perspective it seems to fit: prone to travelling and collect tales, maybe write down their own, dig into the local lore...and still be able to hold their own in a fight, if it comes to that (Oh, and I'm sure it will.. no such thing as peaceful exploration or butting into people's personal lives without consequence).

Race would be Moon Elf (no love for pesky ECL) and, as I said, Bard (30) was my planned class, but seeing how people claim that Pure bard is a bit of a P.I.T.A because of the high perform requirement to get the juiciest bard song, I was hoping that the local builders could help me come up with a build that fits with the theme I described above (No KC, please!).

TL;DR version-

I want to make an elf bard with an explorer theme. What I have planned right now is -
Race: Moon Elf
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral ~Free Spirit~
Class: Bard (30) <- This can, and probably will change. Just no KC levels.
Stats: STR 15 / DEX 10 / CON 12 / WIS 8 / INT 14 / CHA 16 <- Also subject to change

I appreciate any and all suggestions.

Edited for typos.

I definetly agree about 30 Bard. Super cool, but not drastically more powerful than 25Bard and the strain it puts on your gear...I definetely think you can create a more powerful character in two ways, both by not overreaching, and picking up another few class levels. Master Scout?

Master Scout sounds like fun, as a "wild" counterpart to the more urban bard. However, the pre-reqs for it kind of scare me. Can I really afford to spend two feats on skill focuses and several other CC skills when the bard is already so feat starved and has so many skills to raise?

25 Bard 4 Fighter 1 Ranger
24 Bard 5 Master Scout 1 Ranger

Those are my favorites at least.

25/5 bard/ms
So you get the extra bard a.c. from 25bard.

You don't really need the ranger level

LadyJeanine wrote:

25 Bard 4 Fighter 1 Ranger

Very_Svensk wrote:

25/5 bard/ms

Out of curiosity, how would you build these (level order and such) ? Would the stats I posted on my original post work for either build?

Bard30 is ace. Best buffs, long Haste durations to keep up a party of six steamrolling well beyond bedtime. I don't see how the MS5 contributes to the deficiencies of the Bard, though. Bard pays dearly for the pre-requisite feats of MS as it benefits way more from having IKD that works in symbiosis with the skill negation of the song, the +2 AB in wilderness areas is a joke compared to the effective +1 AC +1 AB for the whole party, and the MS Survival Gear is a toy for bards and generally many things already savouring the luxury of UMD. The only genuinely worthwhile feature is Uncanny Dodge I since you'll be prancing around in a chainmail, but truth be told, in contrast to the pros of Bard30 that +4 AC when flatfooted is practically negligible. And yes, Spot and perma-Freedom are nice, but still.

It's not like I was saying it's unthinkable to combine Bard with MS, it is only that you'd gain way more from going Fighter5 since it focuses on some of the areas the Bard doesn't already overperform in.

So I was wondering.

A build involving 11 levels Wizard, 16 PM and 3 Rogue would allow me to take Dragon Knight as a feat.

May be a stupid question, but would 15 Wizard 12 PM and 3 Rogue give me the same?

Fraid not.

You need 21(?) Wiz or 15 PM for Epic Spells.

Thought so. Bugger. Ah well, low duration spells here I come.

I believe this is a question that has been raised a few times already but had no reply if the Search feature is to be believed, but without further hesitation, I would like to clarify if the Knight Champion's Barrier of Swords can be used in conjunction with Damage Shields, such as Death Armour/Mestil's Acid Sheath/etc. I can't see a reason why I wouldn't but at the same time, I am surprised at this hasnt been addressed before, even out of curiosity rather than a build request post reply. Hopefully we can get this cleared up. Thanks.

Yes, it can be used at the same time.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Yes, it can be used at the same time.

<3

Thanks Sune. What a wonderful batch of concepts that's just inspired.

Question about Pick Pocket skill.

I can't make heads or tails of this, i'm reading the article here.

Quote:

You must overcome the target’s DC by performing a skill check against your pickpocket skill

But:

Quote:

Permanent 50-pickpocket skill decrease to disable the built-in Bioware pickpocket system

So, what exactly determines how good my PC is at pickpocketing?

EDIT: I mean, wait...

What confuses me is the "disable the built-in Bioware pickpocket system" bit. How the heck one is supposed to use a skill with a -50 on it, i mean is that the whole point of the change, to nerf the damn thing into oblivion?

What does the widget take into account when calculating my pick pocket skill check? Skill rank, dex bonus, item bonus?

How does this work!?

I think it works like this:

You get an innate -50 to the PP skill, so that ONLY by using the PP tool will you be able to decently pickpocket (getting your 50 points back). Bioware pickpocket was too easily exploited.

I'm godawful when it comes to building. Anyone care to help me puzzle out a human Ranger build? I'm thinking 25-26 ranger levels, but beyond that, I've got absolutely no idea what to do.

Izzzt wrote:

I'm godawful when it comes to building. Anyone care to help me puzzle out a human Ranger build? I'm thinking 25-26 ranger levels, but beyond that, I've got absolutely no idea what to do.

I'd recommend:
25/4/1 Ranger/Fighter/Rogue
Or:
26/2/2 Ranger/Fighter/Rogue

Go STR on both, try to go for DV Crit. Former gets epic weapon specialization.
Following is for the latter build:
17/9/10/10/14/8 (6 free points, put into CON, INT, DEX, and CHA as best fits the character)
Pre-epic(8): WF, IMPR Crit, Blind Fight, Power Attack, Cleave, G-Cleave, Extend Spell, Knockdown
Epic(4+3R+2F): G-Str 1-2, EWF, Eprowess, Armor Skin, OV Crit, DV Crit, Bane of Enemies, ?

Plenty of tweaks that can be made, but this should be pretty solid.

Be cool and go for 30 ranger

Ranger

Pre-epic Feats:
Luck of Heroes > Pointblack Shot > Weapon Finesse > Rapid Shot, WF Shortsword, WF Longbow, Impcrit Shortsword, Blindfight, KD.

21 Great Dex
23 Bane of Enemies
24 ESF Disc?
25 EWF Longbow
26 Armourskin
27 ESF Hide
29 Epic Prowess
30 ESF Spot EWF Shortsword

Shortswords and Longbow, be cool.

You can do what you want with your stats, so long as you got 14 wisdom and 18 dex. 12 Int is recommended for skills too.

Ranger30 doesn't really pay off in any way. Unless you want "cool", which is silly. For the record, I happen to own one myself.

There is nothing silly about cool. Also, that is the build you made for me. Hah.

Alright, here's a question.

Most interesting build you've seen on Amia. Go.

Cleric/Monk/SD possibly, I dunno, remembering things is not my strong point. :lol:

Why do you ask?

YOu can't copy it. THen it wouldn't be interesting!

Interesting in what way? In terms of clever, power, flavour?

Personally i have to say that the most mindblowing build i've seen so far in here was ILoveIceCream's PM/SD, utterly weird and awkward though certainly bearing an interesting theme.

Again, on the Pick Pocket skill/widget. Please someone knowledgeable tune in and explain, i realized my svirfneblin sneak with Beggar job cover could also use Pickpocketing skill to compliment her overall mischievous nature. I need to plan the skill point distribution all around though, and i'd like to have some knowledge on how much would i need for it.

jimbono1 wrote:

There is nothing silly about cool. Also, that is the build you made for me. Hah.

Yes, there is, but fortunately, being silly is not harmful to others. And I did it for you because you wouldn't have it any other way, you hellbent you. Seriously I would never consider going DEX Ranger without Uncanny Dodge I. Good sillyfun, still.

Crippling strike only works when you have the sneak attack feat.
Will it still work when the sneak attack is given by an item? In other words: Will it make sense for an assassin without rogue/BG levels to pick crippling strike as bonus feat?

Logically it should work since you're getting the feat, also i recall someone already mentioned it in this thread before.

So, it will work, but don't quote me on that cause i haven't personally ever tested it.

hi guys,
this is my first ever post on this build character thread. so hope you guys dont mind assisting me with some tips.

the idea is to make a dex based weaponmaster with epic dodge....and some decent skill points to throw into hide/move silently..etc kinda like a ninja toon rofl...

please do assist.thank you kindly for your help

13 rogue 10 fighter 7 weaponmaster

Race earth genasi:

Abilities:
STR: 16
DEX: 18 (should end with around 38 dex with items etc)
CON: 14
WIS: 10
INT: 14
CHA: 10

Leveling Guide:
Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Rogue(1): Dodge, Mobility
02: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
03: Rogue(3): Weapon Finesse, {Uncanny Dodge I}
04: Fighter(1): DEX+1, Weapon Focus: rapier, (DEX=19)
05: Fighter(2): Blind Fight
06: Fighter(3): Spring Attack
07: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: rapier
08: Fighter(5): DEX+1, (DEX=20)
09: Fighter(6): Expertise, Whirlwind Attack
10: Weapon Master(1): Weapon of Choice: rapier
11: Weapon Master(2)
12: Weapon Master(3): DEX+1, knockdown (DEX=21)
13: Rogue(4)
14: Weapon Master(4)
15: Weapon Master(5): improve knockdown
16: Weapon Master(6): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
17: Weapon Master(7)
18: Rogue(5): toughness
19: Fighter(7)
20: Fighter(8): DEX+1, Improved Critical: rapier, (DEX=23)
21: Fighter(9): Epic Weapon Focus: rapier
22: Rogue(6)
23: Fighter(10): Epic Weapon Specialization: rapier
24: Rogue(7): DEX+1, Great Dexterity I, (DEX=25)
25: Rogue(8)
26: Rogue(9)
27: Rogue(10): Great Dexterity II, Improved Evasion, (DEX=26)
28: Rogue(11): STR+1, (STR=17)
29: Rogue(12)
30: Rogue(13): Epic Dodge, Defensive Roll

Stats:
Should end up with around
AC: 57

AB: 45

some decent amount of skill points...

looking forward to your feedback thanks

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