what about when taking mythal crafting? Is having a launcher+ammo combo better for crafting or does that not matter.

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Lance battle shifter of Red Knight
Lyle Underburrow...I would watch where you step when he's around, you might go boom

Sling. Darts are 5 pounds a stack, versus .1 for sling and 0 for bullets.

Darts get automatic mighty up to your STR modifier, but you won't have the STR to need it.

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Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess

Okay so I have done about 8 builds so far(Rog/DC,Fig,SD/MS: with MS both epic and pre-epic and SD up to lvl 10) and though I seem to love the DC and Fig builds I created I can't help but worry that HIPS might be vital to the build. So here is the question: Do I need HIPS to effectively lay traps MID-BATTLE. I see this character laying them around pre-battle and then hiding (I assumed with Darkness pellets or whatever they were called) and then laying more. I worry that without HIPS someone with Ultravision will prevent me from hiding and basically hit me on the head until I die. Is this a valid fear or am I crazy...crazier then I need to be.

So summarized: Is HIPS worth losing a fourth attack/higher Saves or Wpn SPec. Take into account I will be really investing in Stealth(ESF: Hide and MS and on some builds SF: Hide and MS). Anyway thank you in advance for all the help you have given me toward this build.

Your all great

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Lance battle shifter of Red Knight
Lyle Underburrow...I would watch where you step when he's around, you might go boom

If you want to really go all out on traps, the fourth attack and higher saves don't really matter; If you end up in melee you've already lost. Considering that, the defensive abilities of SD would probably help more.

And anyways, if that sounds more fun, do that.

Edit: Oh, yeah, like Hackums said, you don't *need* HiPS to use sneak.... it just makes it easier. Like training wheels, that you never take off.

_________________

HIPS is a very easy, very simple thing to use. Of course, its got its RP technicalities, but it makes sneaking rather simple.

However, I have personally seen trappers be extremely effective as non-hips folks. In fact, my favorite trappers (I won't give names, but I've witnessed some unexpected jewels) are all non-hips characters. If you get really good at corner sneaking, which is totally possible, and a lot more fun (In my opinion), then you'll have enemies refer to you as 'Dancer', believing you to be a shadowdancer by how well you corner sneak.

When your traps are going to be most effective, is when they're going to be clustered, and a ton of them. And when you apply your Master Scout upgrades to them. You're not going to be able to cluster traps by using Hips in battles anyway. You're going to bend down, place a trap-- then pop out of stealth, run away, and then hips again. And its pretty obvious where you've just laid a trap, because that's where you appeared from. A trapper will be 100% more effective if he's taken the time to lay a well thought out trap field to the side of a battle, then lured the enemy in. And that doesn't require hips-- It requires planning!

Plus, you have some neat disengages with your MS grenades. You can hit someone, stun'em, flee, and set a bunch of traps behind a corner-- while pegging them with rocks from a distance. And there are some counters to Ultravision too. If I were going to go back and remake Haan into a stronger, more-fun version, it would be without Shadowdancer. I love the challenge of being forced to corner sneak, or find tricky ways to remove yourself from sight.

Okay Hackums you convinced me. So I have 2 to choose from. I personally feel the first one will be more fun since it will give me quicker access to MS and it's items earlier. Also it would be higher Saves with 2 prestige pre-epic.

Anyway here they are for their final check before creation.


Build 1
1 R1 Point Blank
2 R2
3 R3 Wpn Dart
4 R4
5 R5
6 R6 SF: Spot
7 R7
8 R8
9 R9 SF: Listen
10 R10 Imp Eva
11 DC1
12 M1 Great Fort Rapid Shot
13 M2
14 M3
15 M4 SF: Hide
16 R11
17 R12
18 DC2 Imp Crit SF: MS
19 DC3
20 DC4 Blind Fight
21 M5 Armor Great Dex
22 R13 Skill Mastery
23 R14
24 R15 ESF: Hide
25 R16 Def Roll
26 R17
27 R18 Epic Dodge
28 R19 ESF: MS
29 DC5
30 DC6 Epic Wpn Epic Prowess

Build 2
1 R1 PB
2 R2
3 R3 Wpn
4 R4
5 R5
6 R6 SF: Hide
7 R7
8 R8
9 R9 SF: MS
10 R10 Imp Eva
11 DC1
12 DC2 Imp Crit Blind Fight
13 R11
14 R12
15 R13 Skill Mastery SF: Spot
16 R14
17 R15
18 R16 Def Roll SF: Listen
19 DC3
20 DC4 Rapid Shot
21 M1 Armor Skin Great Dex
22 M2
23 M3
24 M4 ESF: Hide
25 M5 Epic Prowess
26 R17
27 R18 Epic Dodge
28 R19 Sneak Attack
29 DC5
30 DC6 Ep Wpn: ESF: MS

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Lance battle shifter of Red Knight
Lyle Underburrow...I would watch where you step when he's around, you might go boom

Was revisiting an old BG build, and while the BAB is pretty good, my base strength only tallies up to 20. With an extra epic feat to toy with, I can't tell if I should dump it onto Epic Prowess, Epic Skill Focus: Spot (like I originally would), or even Epic Skill Focus: Concentration, given the seeming prevalence of Taunt with all the bards and KCs around.

_________________
Who are you. What are you. Why do you scream at me?

Wands. Alchemy is meh, great for RP value,but it lacks in the gold.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

Here's a build I put together for a friend. I'd appreciate comments, critique, etc- what did I miss, if anything?

Leveling Guide for: Ranger 10/Rogue 1/Assassin 19

Final Skills:
Concentration: 9
Disable Trap: 32
Discipline: 33
Hide: 33
Move Silently: 33
Set Trap: 33
Tumble: 30
UMD: 32

Level 1:
Race: Human
Subrace: Water Genasi
Class: Ranger (Ranger 1)
Starting Stats:
Str: 8
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Wis: 12
Int: 14
Cha: 8
Feats:
Luck of Heroes
Weapon Finesse
Favored Enemy: Humans

Level 2: Ranger (Ranger 2)

Level 3: Ranger (Ranger 3)
Feats: Knockdown

Level 4: Ranger (Ranger 4)
Stat: +1 Dex

Level 5: Ranger (Ranger 5)
Skills: +8 hide, +8 Move Silently
Feats: Favored Enemy: Elves

Level 6: Ranger (Ranger 6)
Feats: Weapon Focus: (your choice, handaxe suggested), Animal Companion (Panther suggested)

Level 7: Ranger (Ranger 7)

Level 8: Assassin (Ranger 7/Assassin 1)
Stat: +1 Dex
Feats: IKD

Level 9: Assassin (Ranger 7/Assassin 2)

Level 10: Assassin (Ranger 7/Assassin 3)

Level 11: Assassin (Ranger 7/Assassin 4)

Level 12: Assassin (Ranger 7/Assassin 5)
Stat: +1 Dex
Feats: Improved Critical

Level 13: Assassin (Ranger 7/Assassin 6)

Level 14: Assassin (Ranger 7/Assassin 7)

Level 15: Assassin (Ranger 7/Assassin 8 )
Feats: Blind-Fight

Level 16: Assassin (Ranger 7/Assassin 9)
Stat: +1 Dex

Level 17: Assassin (Ranger 7/Assassin 10)

Level 18: Rogue (Ranger 7/Assassin 10/Rogue 1)
Feats: Skill Focus: Hide

Level 19: Ranger (Ranger 8/Assassin 10/Rogue 1)

Level 20: Ranger (Ranger 9/Assassin 10/Rogue 1)
Stat: +1 Dex

Level 21: Assassin (Ranger 9/Assassin 11/Rogue 1)
Feats: Epic Weapon Focus

Level 22: Assassin (Ranger 9/Assassin 12/Rogue 1)

Level 23: Assassin (Ranger 9/Assassin 13/Rogue 1)

Level 24: Assassin (Ranger 9/Assassin 14/Rogue 1)
Stat: +1 Dex
Feats: Improved Evasion, Armor Skin

Level 25: Assassin (Ranger 9/Assassin 15/Rogue 1)

Level 26: Assassin (Ranger 9/Assassin 16/Rogue 1)

Level 27: Assassin (Ranger 9/Assassin 17/Rogue 1)
Feats: Great Dex 1

Level 28: Assassin (Ranger 9/Assassin 18/Rogue 1)
Stat: +1 Dex
Feats: Defensive Roll

Level 29: Assassin (Ranger 9/Assassin 19/Rogue 1)

Level 30: Ranger (Ranger 10/Assassin 19/Rogue 1)
Feats: Epic Dodge, Epic Prowess

_________________
~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.

Why one level of rogue? I could understand it if you wanted to take crippling strike as assassin bonus feat, but you are not. You also need search in there if you want to find the traps you are going to disable, and you don't need that much in disable trap either.

Also, it might be a good idea to get that 9th level of ranger as soon as possible for the second off-hand attack. In addition, you might consider upping the int for higher DC on the assassin sepcial abilities.

_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

He's probably taking the 1 level of rogue so he can skill dump discipline. He could go 11 Ranger/ 19 assassin but he probably wants that extra d6 sneak attack.

EDIT: And more importantly he gets that level 10 ranger bonus feat in epic rather than pre-epic.

_________________
“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.”
-Albert Einstein

Discipline is no rogue skill. I would take one level of fighter more gladly than a single level of rogue, in epics.

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Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

I'm a big fan of Shaundakul and I've been thinking about making a spell sword that follows him and uses his magic for protection and navigation rather than offensive casting. The thing is I've never made a mage, let alone a spell blade.

I would love for it to be an air genasi sorcerer and try to get an air elemental summon, but mechanically air genasi and sorc don't mix well. I could go wizard which would probably be better but I like the feel of a sorc better. I could not be an air genasi but then I won't be an air genasi and that makes me sad.

Needless to say I need some help. IDK a good level spread. IDK what feats to take. I'm assuming fighter feats and extend spell. IDK if I can make sorc work on an air genasi. I appreciate any advice.

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“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.”
-Albert Einstein

This. And Find Traps scrolls are pretty available in the module. Plus, my mage with 0 search can see the traps pretty easily, so theoretically about 15 spot on gear and this build will be fine for trapspotting.

Ranger at 20 is the last point where its BAB will matter and it's there for a skilldump at that point. It could be moved to much earlier with no real problem.

As to the assassin abilities, I've cranked int about as much as I'm willing to on the build without sacrificing other stats. While I think I could do without con I dunno about others so I bump it a little to be safe. Good thought though.

_________________
~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.

There's two changes I'd make.

One, the above highlighted change, 1d6 sneak attack for a different feat, by getting epic dodge on the L19 rogue level. You can take another feat if you like but I like the idea of epic spot.

Next, for pre-epics, I'd drop SF: Hide, SF MS, pick up stealthy, and weapon finesse. You lose only 1 hide/ms but you get the ability to hit things in melee period.

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I play:

Yeah, go wizard. Unless you're dead set on going sorcerer for RP reasons, wizard makes everything much better.

Here's what I would do. Of course, it may not be what you want (no air elemental summon for example), but it might give you some ideas:

Abilities
STR 16 -> 22
DEX (8->)10
CON 16
WIS (8->) 6
INT (16->) 18 -> 20
CHA (8->) 6

Pre-epic classes: Wizard 18 / Fighter 2
Pre-epic feats: Luck of Heroes, Blind Fight, Toughness, WP: Exotic, WF: Bastard Sword, IC: Bastard Sword, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Still Spell, Maximize Spell, Extend Spell, SF: Abjuration, GSF: Abjuration

Epic classes: Wizard 23 / Fighter 6 / Bard 1
Epic feats: Great Strength I, EWF: Bastard Sword, Armor Skin, ESF: Abjuration, Epic Mage Armor, Automatic Still Spell: I to III

Skills: You can max out Tumble, Spellcraft, Discipline, Concentration, Heal etc etc.


You'd be looking at amazing survivability with all the abjuration spells, 65 AC, +500 health with Tenser's Transformation and all that stuff. With Maximize Spell and EMA you'll have a great number of item slots available for universal saves and anything else really. AB's a pretty good ~46 and the damage is decent enough, but the main focus is clearly in the defensive abilities.

Like I said, this is just something I would do personally, but there are different ways you can go on about it.

Wizard 24 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2.

_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

If you take the rogue level at level 1, you get 16 more skill points. You'll need to shuffle finesse to level 3 though.

I'd also get stealthy over SF: Hide. (2 Hide, 2 MS against 3 Hide) You'll have camo which gives you +10 hide anyways.

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I play:

Well, if you want an airhead sorc, you can get an airhead sorc . I retooled a build for a kobold for this. Here you go:

8/16(18)/12/14(16)/8(6)/16(14)
You might want to tweak the stats a bit, but I strongly reccommend going with base 16 in both dex and CHA for this character.

Pre-epic: 16/4 Sorcerer/Fighter
Epic: 23/6/1 Sorcerer/Fighter/Rogue or Bard (reccommend rogue)
Feats(8+3F): Extend Spell, Empower, Maximize, Weapon Focus (recommend rapier), Finesse, IMPR crit, Weapon Specialization, KD(Or Spell Focus), IKD(Or Greater Spell Focus), Free feat
Epic(4+1S+1F): EWF, EWS, G-Dex 1, Epic Summon, Epic Mage Armor, Epic Ruin

8/20/12/16/6/20

Personally I think I'd go with the knockdowns rather than the spell foci, you'll have trouble fitting in epic spell focus and your max DC will only be 36 even if, which has it's uses if you want to pop a wail every so often, but I doubt this guy would be into necromancy like that. So I figure your offensive spell core should be evards, ice storm, and IGMs.

AB will be: 12+5+3+11+5+[10] = 36[46]

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I play:

I'd stick Still Spell in there too for casting in armor, and not convinced about Empower. Never really found good use for that myself, a spellsword probably will have even less.

EDIT: Wait... DEX based hmm? I suppose race bonuses and theme calls for it. Imho it will be considerably weaker than the STR+INT way though. -2 AC, but more feats.

EDIT2: Well anyway, here's the wiz version.

Wiz23/FTR6/Rogue1 - pre-epic 16/4/0, epic 7/2/1 level spread.

Pre-epic feats 14: WFocus, ICrit, WSpec, Extend, Maximize, Still, SFocus, GSFocus, BlindF, Toughness, KD, IKD. 2 more feats ;]
Epic feats 7: EWFocus, EWSpec, ESFocus, GInt1, EMArmor, GRuin, Epic Mummy Dust.

STR 18 (24)
DEX 8 (10)
CON 12
INT 16 +2 (20)
WIS 8 (6)
CHA 8 (6)

AC 53 ? [8 plate, 1 dex, 7 shield, 6 tumble, 5/5/5/5 EMA, 10 dodge]
BAB 17
AB 38 (48 Tenser)
HP 218 (398 max con)

For your convenience, epic level progression (so you know when to take feats)

21: Wiz(17): Epic Weapon Focus: Rapier/Scimitar/whatever one-handed
22: Wiz(18)
23: Wiz(19)
24: Wiz(20): Great INT 1, Epic Spell Focus: Evocation?, INT+1 [INT=20]
25: FTR(05)
26: Wiz(21):
27: Wiz(22): Epic Mummy Dust: Air Elemental
28: Rogue(01): STR+1 [STR=24] (Tumble 30, UMD 27 etc)
29: FTR(06): Epic Weapon Spec (Discipline 32)
30: Wiz(23): Epic Mage Armor, Greater Ruin/Hellball

Add to STR on levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 28.
Add to INT on level 24, take GInt feat on 24.

Alternatively, add to INT on levels 4 and 8, rest to STR, and take Great STR feat on 24'th. (around 16 more skillpoints)

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Mark it zero!

Good points! Definite improvement, thank you very much.

_________________
~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.

I think this is a pretty good build for those looking for a blackguard.
5 bard 16 Blackguard 9 Dragon Disciple

Become the Bane of Good.

Starting stats:

Race Human (NE,CE)

Strength 15
Dexterity 10
Constitution 12
Wisdom 14
Intelligence 12
Charisma 14

Level 01 Class: Bard Feats Power Attack, Cleave
Max Skills Discipline, Lore, Hide, Spellcraft,Tumble, UMD
Level 02 Class: Bard
Max Skills Discipline, Lore, Hide, Spellcraft,Tumble, UMD
Level 03 Class: Bard Feat Toughness
Skills Discipline, Lore,Spellcraft,Tumble, UMD Save the extra point
Level 04 Class: Bard +1 STR
Skills Discipline, Lore, Hide, Spellcraft,Tumble, UMD Save the extra point
Level 05 Class: Bard
Skills Discipline, Lore, Hide, Spellcraft,Tumble, UMD Save the extra point
Level 06 Class: Dragon Disciple Feat Blind Fight
Save all your skill points
Level 07 Class: Dragon Disciple
Save all your skill points
Level 08 Class: Dragon Disciple +1 STR
Save all your skill points
Level 09 Class: Dragon Disciple Feat Great Cleave
Save all your skill points
Level 10 Class: Blackguard
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 11 Class: Blackguard
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 12 Class: Blackguard +1 STR Feat Improved Critical
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 13 Class: Blackguard
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 14 Class: Blackguard
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 15 Class: Blackguard Feat Divine Might
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 16 Class: Blackguard +1 STR
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 17 Class: Blackguard
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 18 Class: Blackguard Feat Weapon Focus
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 19 Class: Blackguard
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 20 Class: Dragon Disciple +1 STR
Max Spellcraft bring Tumble up to 10 save the rest
Level 21 Class: Blackguard Feat Epic Weapon Focus
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 22 Class: Blackguard
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 23 Class: Dragon Disciple
Max Spellcraft save all your skill points
Level 24 Class: Blackguard +1 STR Feat Overwhelming Critical and Divine Shield
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 25 Class: Blackguard
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 26 Class: Blackguard
Max Discipline save the rest
Level 27 Class: Dragon Disciple Feat Devastating Critical
Max Spellcraft to 30 save all your skill points
Level 28 Class: Dragon Disciple +1 STR
Bring Tumble to 15 save the rest
Level 29 Class: Dragon Disciple
Save the skill points
Level 30 Class: Blackguard Feat Epic Fiendish Servant and another (Suggest Armor Skin)
Leaves you with 43 skill points to use. Max out your others skills that you want at either 29 or 30
based on what Dragon Disciple or Blackguard offer

There you go. You got a dev critting blackguard who has all the blackguard abilites available to him/her
and if you RP the book of vile darkness you get a powerful summon

Get the usual standard epic items and max Strength and Charisma with items/abilites/spells High Saves

High AC with Divine Shield High Attack and Damage with Divine Might (especially vs good with Smite good)
Also dragon wings.

Need a little help. Quarterstaff Monk. Working on a request, so dont bother talking about low ab. And yes terrible damage and thats not going to change much

14 Str
14 Dex
10 Con
16 Wis -> 24 Wis
14 Int
8 Cha

Luck of Heroes
Disarm
Custom Feat
Zen Archery
Improved Disarm
Weapon Focus
Improved Critical
Blind Fight

Epic Weapon Focus
Great Wisdom
Epic Prowess

I then have 1 open Epic Feat and 2 Bonus Monk Feats. The issue I'm having is there really is not much to use from the monk stuff except armor skin and the spell resistance feats. Is only taking one or two of the spell resistance feats worth it? Should I multi-class to get more feats to play with or more skills to be able to dump into?

_________________

The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

If we're to "not bother talking about low AB", and "terrible damage that's not going to change"... what is it exactly that you want us to help you with? Substitute for Armor Skin?

If you are open for multiclassing, everything can change mate. Specify what is the focus of this build (or request, maybe we can add to the concept, or work around it), and we can help you out.

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Mark it zero!

Thanks for the help with the spell blade. Those builds should help me come up with one of my own.

_________________
“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.”
-Albert Einstein

Pigeon: It's a question of where you want to go.

Quarterstaff is onehand, so don't expect much love in the damage department.

If you want to multiclass, monk meshes really well with most of the classes that rely on wisdom for spellslots- Paladin and Ranger especially. Both are pretty broken with monk, though I'll give some edge to Ranger for not forcing you to delve into a third stat, plus the built-in two-weapon love (though you'll be twohanding your stick!).

The high wisdom as a monk has me scratching my head- I almost always go with Dexterity and Weapon Finesse as a monk to get both AB and AC from the stat I'm pumping. AC alone on a monk seems a little wasteful. However, with a quarterstaff you're not going to be using weapon finesse anyway.

Improved disarm's a good choice for a build using a large weapon, but as a monk you get IKD for free- having two disabling attacks just seems a little superfluous. You could probably drop Disarm for Toughness and a Fortitude feat (your fort save will suck, it needs love).

As a monk you can also get Improved Evasion for free- and Monk 9/Assassin 18 in there somewhere will net you both Epic Dodge and Crippling Strike (I suggest 10 monk / 19 assassin / 1 rogue myself) but you'll suffer some AB loss. However, a good series of Crippling Strikes from a spam monk will debilitate a target very quickly.

Zen archery is a good choice if you're using shuriken- it applies to all ranged attacks (I think), and you'll benefit from the monk's attack schedule with shuriken.

If you're going spell resistance, go all the way- One or two SR feats are more or less a wash and completely not worth it. A couple of Great Wisdom feats wouldn't go awry, nor would an epic feat for whichever one of your saves is weakest (unless you have 20+ monk, in which case ignore Will unless you're deathly afraid of the oddball will save you'll actually have to make).

As built this build looks to be a decent ranged harasser but a poor stand-up combatant. Not sure you'd have a great deal of fun with this. If you can get some sort of disabling Shiruken then that'd help. Additionally, its stunning fist would have a 38 DC if you went 30 monk, though if you chuck all three spare feats at it you'll get a 44 DC stun which bypasses mind protection- nothing to sneeze at. You would also get the same benefit (and possibly a stronger build) out of Monk 20/Divine Champion 9/Ranger 1, as DC has Improved Stunning Fist and Great Wisdom as bonus feats, not to mention saves and a plethora of other fun goodies (assuming you beef up your cha score with items). Ranger should be taken post-epic for its freebie feat at level 1, which can be Epic Weapon Focus or Epic Prowess. It's also a great trapskill dump if you're into that sort of play, and gives you some free dual-wield stuff in case you do decide to mix things up. You can also replace Ranger with Rogue if you want the 1d6 sneak attack and a tumble/UMD dump at 27 (ideally you'll take Monk or DC at 30 for Discipline).

I'm not really sure why you've got strength at 14 to begin with- I'd drop it to 8 and get two more wisdom points if you're going to use it as a ranged attacker. Every bit of AB helps, and melee on this thing isn't really going to be very effective.

How flexible is your friend willing to be? The quarterstaff alone is setting the build back tremendously as a melee combatant. It'd benefit immensely from being shuriken or kama-focused, but sinking feats into quarterstaff is going to be useless. If you're not going to care about the AB, then forget the idea of it going into melee at all, switch the weapon foci over to shuriken, and just carry a quarterstaff around otherwise.

_________________
~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.

Quarterstaff is a two handed weapon so you'll get the 1.5 str mod to damage. Plus, it benefits from the monk UBAB progression and you can get up to 8 attacks with it but only if you take at least 4 levels a full BAB class like fighter.

I agree that maybe going shurikens would be better because your ab will be based your wisdom.

If you're willing to multiclass, I like 21 monk/ 6 fighter/ 3 rogue STR based for staff (which will get very good damage), WIS or DEX based for stars.

For your current build, if you get your DEX up to 19, you can try for improved stunning fist and get a nice DC on that.

_________________
“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.”
-Albert Einstein

I'd say 23 monk/ 6 fighter/ 1 rogue.
20 monk/ 5 fighter/ 5 master scout could work too.

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THREE

He wants too many feats as is for master scout.

21 monk, 6 fighter, 3 rogue is a superior choice as though it isn't dexterity based, uncanny dodge will still help the character retain the reasonable amount of AC from dexterity that it will have from its base 2 modifier and however much it reaches with potions and gear.

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feel the blood gushing from your anusfeel the blood gushing from your anus

4 levels of Barbarian, Standard Rage = +1 or +2 AB/dmg?

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Mark it zero!

How good is cripling strike as a feat?

Also there is no way to take the feat self concealment on our server is there?

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Characters:

Fel'Brin - I am one with the shadows

Crippling Strike is good if you don't have anything more important to take, like Epic Hide/Spot, Epic Fortitude, Armor Skin, etc.

Yeah, certain builds can take it. Only up to like... Self Concealment II or III though.

_________________

"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."

Well at 10th level rogue I get a special bonus feat, Crippling Strike was the only one looking decent to me as several of the others I allready get through SD levels

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Characters:

Fel'Brin - I am one with the shadows

self-concealment is pretty much not worth it considering how prevalent improved invisibility is.

_________________
Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess

Was considering different angles for a character, and recalled the whole 24ranger/4fighter/2rogue. Double checked in on MS now that there's a little more information, and this ended up feeling a tad straightforward. The level 1 and 5 feats for MS being as described in epic levels is what concerns me the most (could use confirmation).

25ranger/5ms (20 ranger pre-epic, 5 ranger 5 MS epic)

18 str, 10 dex, 10 con, 14 wis, 12 int, 8 cha

Feats Pre-epic: Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus: To Be Decided, Improved Crit, Blind Fight, Great Cleave, Skill Focus: Spot + Listen

Epic: Epic Weapon Focus, Great Strength 1, Overwhelming Critical, Great Strength 2, Devastating Critical, Bane of Enemies, Great Strength 3, Epic Prowess

Pros: Extra +1 to damage/skills against Favored Enemies. Extra Feats. The nifty flavor from being a MS.
Cons: Loss of 5 damage from no WS/EWS. No IKD. Lack of any Epic Skill Focus.

Don't know if anyone's tinkered with this before, so was looking at feedback.

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Who are you. What are you. Why do you scream at me?

Go 25 ranger/ 4 fighter/ 1 rogue.
6 damage and 2 feats aren't worth the freedom and 2 strength you get from MS.

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THREE

I respectfully disagree.

Permanent, non-dispellable freedom that doesn't take up a mythal slot; +5 Damage / +5 skills vs favored enemies; +2 AB / +2d6 Damage vs favored enemies; utility items you can create and self-buff with; WM-grade AB, Nature Sense and Trackless Step (+2 AB and +4 Hide/MS in nature); Dash (+10% movement speed in nature); +5 to all saves for 25 minutes; bonus feats. That's what you get from going MS.

Fighter / Rogue nets +6 damage, +1d6 Sneak Attack, Evasion, and UMD. That's it.

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"I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest."

When you make shit up and imply one combination does not get what the other does, you can make anything look good.

Both:
+6 + 2d6 damage vs favored
+2 ab vs favored
+6 listen/spot/taunt vs favored
full plate
dual wielding
trackless step (they don't double up when you get the MS one)
a 25 minute long freedom that cannot be dispelled

Master scout:
Master scout items
2 epic feats (str/dex/con/prowess)
Permanent freedom
+5 saves for five hours (10 minutes), not 25 minutes
10% faster in wilderness
+2 ab when in wilderness (nature sense)

Fighter/Rogue:
2 feats (because you do not need to get skill focus listen or spot)
3 epic fighter feats (two of which will be specializations)
+6 damage on every hit
1d6 sneak attack
UMD
4 less skill points

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THREE

It's not really fair to credit an option with both three extra feat slots and the benefit from two of them being used on specialization feats. 'S kinda giving them double credit. Good points both ways though.

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~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.

Now that I look, I'll actually be down Prowess in the 25/5 build, which was my mistake in the original posting. I do appreciate the breakdowns, since it let me poke holes here and there.

Having possible access to KD and Craft Wand in the 25/4/1 feels like the deal breaker really.

Edit: Had to bash the 25ranger/5ms build around about 4 separate times, but got it to line up a bit better.

Pre-epic: Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, Blind Fight, Skill Focus: Spot + Listen
Epic: Armor Skin, Great Strength, Epic Weapon Focus, Overwhelming Critical, Bane of Enemies, Devastating Critical, Epic Prowess, <Free Feat>

So yes, it's still a matter of giving up two feats pre-epic, 6 damage, and UMD vs the flavor of being better in ranger-esque locations. Will think on it at work, but I really want to go the 25ranger/5ms at the end of the day.

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Who are you. What are you. Why do you scream at me?

Okay. I am thinking of a monk/Weapon master. In practice, is it better to go heavier on the monk or heavier on the weapon master?

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Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess

Personally, I'd go with a Monk / Divine Champion / Weapon Master, heavy monk. Since you won't be getting Epic Dodge, having the extra AC from Monk levels will be nice. Just make sure to milk it for as much AB as you can pre-epic.

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"I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest."

Monk 21 / Fighter 2 / WM 7 sounds decent.
Monk 12/Fighter 2/WM 6 pre-epic nets you the most BAB but back-ends all the monk goodies.

Alternatively

Monk 21 / Fighter 4 / WM 5 if you want Epic Weapon Spec
Monk 12/Fighter 3/WM 5 pre-epic.

Or, for a bit of a twist:

Monk 15 / SD 10 / WM 5 with Epic Dodge.
(not entirely sure if there are enough feats for this one, however)

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Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

Fighter might actually be better, yeah. Monk doesn't really need the CoT help with saves. There's no kill like overkill, though.

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"I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest."

The items, and the permanent freedom you get from MS beats the +6 damage in my book. In particular because I like the utility of having different weapons for different enemies. As an MS, you get some neat toys that can make any weapon good. Furthermore, as a str ranger, damage will be good enough anyway. Especially with all those crits feats. To get the most out of dev crit, a x3 weapon is a good choice. Hand axes maybe? You'd be a dualwielding beast with those. Or maye go sword and board with a warhammer for lots of blunt pwnage.

Edit: Craft wand is useless on a ranger. They don't get any spells that you need wands for.

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

+6 damage is a very noticeable jump in overall DPS. For most things, a flame blade scroll will work just as well as what ever the MS can craft and everything else related to your weapon comes from your ranger levels.

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Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess

Out of curiosity - I just stumbled upon being able to carry a... fish, next to my wizard's staff. This means that, while being almost a pure wizard I can carry club in the offhand. Dagger possibly too if I remember properly.
While I know it's possible, I forgot about this "trick" since no one is doing it here.
Why - is there no sense in using weapons giving free bonuses while not losing any casting ability?
Or am I missing something?

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Lots of people do, or use a certain shield that is around.

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Signature by Maryn! <3 I am also seen as DM Snuffles.

This counts towards the +12 cap, yes?

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Mark it zero!