I'm chewing on a certain concept but I'm not sure how to build it, so I'd like to place it here for the consideration of the builders. The idea would be a giant earth-genasi juggernaught brawler. Immensely tough and strong, but slow. Focused on grappling and hitting like a freight train fired from a cannon.
Monk might seem like an obvious choice but I don't like the idea that he zips around like that. Plus, I'd like for this character to wear full plate. Fighter/Barbarian might work too but doesn't really get a great hand-to-hand, unless he'd be given DC-request approved gauntlets with a huge damage bonus.
Anyhow, what do you lot come up with? Earth genasi is optional but preferable.
_________________ Aernoud Van Brabant: Heir of the House. Proprietor of the Beer Wagon. "Go to the Mayfields, have a pint, and wait for this to blow over." Aurelius: Sunmaster of Amaunator. Contemplative. Aspirant to Transcendance. "Sol Invictus"
Monk could work if you had him encumbered all the time. One level could be good if you want monk gloves for him. Aside from that, I think Fighter/Barb would be good.
Remember the more monk levels you have the higher base damage you do.
I'd say something like 26 monk 4 fighter would be great. Using the golem parts to be encumbered and detect mode + stealth will give you that imposing juggernaut feel.
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"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
Won't the monk damage and unarmed attack bonus be reduced if you wear armor?
_________________ Aernoud Van Brabant: Heir of the House. Proprietor of the Beer Wagon. "Go to the Mayfields, have a pint, and wait for this to blow over." Aurelius: Sunmaster of Amaunator. Contemplative. Aspirant to Transcendance. "Sol Invictus"
The more monk levels you have is not true. 16 is where damage caps out on a monk for unarmed damage. 26 is unnecessary.
_________________
The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
Won't the monk damage and unarmed attack bonus be reduced if you wear armor?
NWNWiki does not say anything about the unarmed damage. I seem to remember it being believed that you could retain your fist damage wearing armor, but then someone discovering/stating that you couldn't and people being disappointed. Test it, though; I could remember wrong.
But yes, monk APR will be lost.
If you just want the look and don't mind being cheap, though, I suppose you could craft some metallic-looking hauberk over your cloth.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
If you just want the look and don't mind being cheap, though, I suppose you could craft some metallic-looking hauberk over your cloth.
I do want the armor to be functional too, so I'm not a fan of 'cheating' with the appearance.
Quote:
I'd like to point out barbarians get a modest speed boost, that persists regardless of armor, so they're not really slow-moving juggernauts.
This is true, but could be easier to justify. And possibly modify with a custom widget or so (would be interesting if he could enter a combat mode that reduces his movement but makes him tougher).
Quote:
Yea, when you put on that armour, you lose the fist damage as well.
Hence why Monk isn't a great option. -- Right now Barbarian/Fighter or even straight fighter looks like the best option, provided the character would be given some DC gauntlets with a large damage increase. Or I need to rethink the concept to be a full monk. Maybe trough a widget that would reduce the movement speed in favor of greater toughness and strength. He's an earth genasi afterall.
_________________ Aernoud Van Brabant: Heir of the House. Proprietor of the Beer Wagon. "Go to the Mayfields, have a pint, and wait for this to blow over." Aurelius: Sunmaster of Amaunator. Contemplative. Aspirant to Transcendance. "Sol Invictus"
Meh, not sure about that build. I just want something unique I suppose.
Anyone know of a good build that includes 20 levels of Shadowdancer??? An SD who doesn't rely on sneak attacks is what I'm after really.
For 20 shadowdancer levels you might consider a strength monk quarterstaff build. Something like Monk 4 / Fighter 6 / Shadowdancer 20. You'll be flimsy, but you won't be wearing armor (excellent hide) and your shadowdancer levels should provide enough survivability to keep you kicking.
The more monk levels you have is not true. 16 is where damage caps out on a monk for unarmed damage. 26 is unnecessary.
I knew it ended in 6...
Quote:
I do want the armor to be functional too, so I'm not a fan of 'cheating' with the appearance.
I understand as you'll be taking a mainly str-based character, so you don't get the juicy AC bonus that comes with being Dex based.
I'm no expert scripter, maybe it is possible to create a widget that negates a full-plate's nerfing of Monk abilities or perhaps a widget that allows you to scale unarmed combat in some way (Like each weapon foci you do increases the base damage).
I'd really like to see you do this character, partly because Earth Genasi are the best Genasi, partly because it's a really foreboding build (Intimidation ranks maybe?) and partly because if you RP them as well as you RP Marcus, it'd be a great character to interact with!
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"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
Can anyone tell me the best near pure monk they can think of or what they'd rather do besides pure monk? I'm still thinking that the majority of the levels will be monk. Was thinking about Improved SR monk.
_________________
Dying of Thirst.
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Can anyone tell me the best near pure monk they can think of or what they'd rather do besides pure monk? I'm still thinking that the majority of the levels will be monk. Was thinking about Improved SR monk.
Something like a L20 minimum for monk levels, maybe 4 fighter levels, and perhaps one Wizard level for the use of scrolls and wands. Most people may not be a fan of the 1 Wizard level, but scrolls can come in handy along with good wands, and a familiar can boost the rp a bit.
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Last edited by Murex on Mon, Dec 02 2013, 7:30 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Hello everyone, I am an old player who will be making a return to Amia from a couple of months... I am presently pondering on a character base concept, a man who has lost his memory and wakes up on the island of Amia, not knowing anything about himself. A bit of a scaredy cat, he prefers having others fight in his place but has a natural talent with the longsword or maybe bastard sword.
I am kinda looking for a ''cornered cat becomes a lion'' kind of build, resourceful and a good fighter overall. Kind of thinking rogue/fighter base, unless anybody has something else interesting to propose. Thanks ^^
I am wondering on what could my third class be. Rogue/Fighter/WM seems a good choice, but is kind of redundant since it is a typical build.
Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
The White Wolf wrote:
Hello everyone, I am an old player who will be making a return to Amia from a couple of months... I am presently pondering on a character base concept, a man who has lost his memory and wakes up on the island of Amia, not knowing anything about himself. A bit of a scaredy cat, he prefers having others fight in his place but has a natural talent with the longsword or maybe bastard sword.
I am kinda looking for a ''cornered cat becomes a lion'' kind of build, resourceful and a good fighter overall. Kind of thinking rogue/fighter base, unless anybody has something else interesting to propose. Thanks ^^
I am wondering on what could my third class be. Rogue/Fighter/WM seems a good choice, but is kind of redundant since it is a typical build.
Hmm... Cornered cat becomes a lion - Barbarian immediately springs to my mind?
I like the 13/6/7 spread, but barbarian would fit well with what I would intend. Would it make my character weak if I would replace fighter for barbarian? I would be tight with feats, of course... Hmm. Weapon master or rogue brings too much to the build for me to replace them. Thank you for the help in any case ^^
Is a L20 Shadowdacer with an Epic Shadow Lord a disappointing build? I'm asking because I'm making one, but it's really hard to level at the moment, and I just want to know if it pays off in the end. I really want this to be worth the effort. Most of the character is mainly focused on the summon, so no sneak attacks or anything damage-wise from the actual character- just spells from scrolls and whatever consumptive uses of items will be used.
'I basically want a 'leader' type character who is charismatic and forceful, bold and daring etcetc. Fascist ubermensch (hurhur) all prowess and laconic wit. I originally thought Sorc and I like that concept, it has more creep power - yet simultaneously I want to obviously have people to lead and it made me wonder if Bard is better for it But it has less personal offensive power/forcefullness.'
People mentioned KC but I'm unsure as to what/where to go. I'm thinking likely a melee build (battle axe and large shield anyone?)
_________________
Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
555444333 wrote:
'I basically want a 'leader' type character who is charismatic and forceful, bold and daring etcetc. Fascist ubermensch (hurhur) all prowess and laconic wit. I originally thought Sorc and I like that concept, it has more creep power - yet simultaneously I want to obviously have people to lead and it made me wonder if Bard is better for it But it has less personal offensive power/forcefullness.'
People mentioned KC but I'm unsure as to what/where to go. I'm thinking likely a melee build (battle axe and large shield anyone?)
Paladin 24 KC 5 Monk/Rogue 1 works
Bard 21 Fighter 4 KC 5 works
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
Int for getting KC skills, can be lowered if KC is desired at endgame as opposed to earlier on.
Due to no epic spells, Wis is not really needed. I'm really not sure dumping 6 of the 7 ability increases in to Cha is worth it (as I can reach the +5 mod for KC maximisation through items) and perhaps putting them in to Con instead, maybe even lowering Wis down to 16 Base (making it 18 after racial) and gaining 14 Con (21 after ability scores) or Dex (15 and then 22 respectively)?
If you haven't guessed, this is the healer from hell (an ironic thing to name it, I know). HiPSing with Medicant on, throwing bandages on the fighters as they battle and casting (Mass) Heal if needs must. Unless going against an Elf or someone maxed in spot, they should be rather useful in PvP provided there aren't fireballs being flung in their face.
I doubt I'll be the one to use this build, but I'm curious as to what you all think about it? This is a character who not only relies on a team, but would effectively be the core support, able to hide if they get wiped out by an overwhelming swarm of monsters and cast resurrections.
_________________
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
'I basically want a 'leader' type character who is charismatic and forceful, bold and daring etcetc. Fascist ubermensch (hurhur) all prowess and laconic wit. I originally thought Sorc and I like that concept, it has more creep power - yet simultaneously I want to obviously have people to lead and it made me wonder if Bard is better for it But it has less personal offensive power/forcefullness.'
People mentioned KC but I'm unsure as to what/where to go. I'm thinking likely a melee build (battle axe and large shield anyone?)
Paladin 24 KC 5 Monk/Rogue 1 works
Bard 21 Fighter 4 KC 5 works
Paladin and Monk are both out due to planned Alignment. People mentioned spellsword, I'm leaning more towards Sorc as well just because I can do more 'shock and awe' magicks per se
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Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
Numbers, I think you'll want a Sorc/KC focused on crowd-control spells. Sunburst, Thunderclap, Evard's, maybe Confusion. Mass Haste and other buffs, of course. Those spells are amazing, and adding the cool auras will only make you more useful. Many of the good disable spells don't really scale with level either, so it's no problem grabbing 5 KC. Wouldn't worry about personal equipment so much.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
555444333 wrote:
People mentioned spellsword, I'm leaning more towards Sorc as well just because I can do more 'shock and awe' magicks per se
You can do more shock and awe but the reality is that you'll be more versatile and adaptable as a Wizard/KC simply because of the Wizard pre-epic bonus feats. Even if you roll along with 14 Strength/18 Int on your Wizard/KC you'll still be a half way decent spell-sword and because of those bonus feats combined with human mastery you'll grab in pre-epic:
You can't build a Decent Spellsword Sorceror that can still maintain decent DC's on it's spells if you use a "Melee" class that has a high feat investment for entry.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
Hmm.. is there any sense of doing mix of rogue/SD/assassin build? Perhaps with a focus in longbow/shortbow..?
I was thinking of using tiefling as the race, which has +1 ECL... Or some other race plus +2 to Dex.
Your AB will leave much to be desired but if you micromanage your pre-epic levels and take all the weapon focus feats and prowess you'll manage. Sucky attacks per round. Tiefer is harder but still doable.
I'd go for maybe 6+ rogue, 6SD and 14-18 assassin. But I do kinda suck at this. Oh, people will tell you to drop the SD and pick up fighter and cornersneak etc, which is viable, but I personally prefer having HiPS access.
I see... Alright then, I'm willing to drop the assassin class to prefer SD's ability to Hips. :/
Truth is I don't understand that much of melee builds, as I prefer casters myself, so.. Reason for me asking.
Rg/SD
RG/Assassin
Which one is better combination? I think it is the rogue/SD because of sneaks and hips... But Assassin has interesting features in it. With assassin, I think it is more about landing that critical strike, fail at it and your in trouble.
ShadowDancer gives you a lot more RP freedom compared to Assassin, with the whole alignment deal.
In terms of which is the better class combination, both Rogue/Assassin and Rogue/ShadowDancer work extremely well. It depends on you character concept, ultimately.
Assassin isn't restrictive conceptually - You almost never see an Evil character get shifted to Good, you know? It's Good PCs that have to be careful not to go down the slippery slope (and even then, it's hard to get shifted). The alignment is a guide, not a straightjacket.
Majority of your damage will come from sneak attacks, so you need a way to consistently generate those. Usually, ImpKD, although your first flurry out of HiPS does pretty well too. If you're going ranged, you can't reliably KD someone, but you can harry them pretty well with hit 'n run by using the cooldown on HiPS.
Assassin is indeed very neat and those features can be particularly useful for getting sneak damage - I'm pretty sure they work with ranged weapons. But it's a bit of a level investment - min 14 levels to be properly effective, I think? And the more you have, the better your Death Attack DC. SD on the other hand is an entirely defensive class - it can be used to set up sneak attacks with HiPS, daze, shadow companion, but you don't really get much boost to damage (sneak attack only increases in rogue or SD). So you need to take only as many SD levels as you need. To improve AB, splash in some fighter levels - at least 4 pre-epic.
If you're speccing bow, I think overall I'd recommend SD, because HiPS is more reliable than hoping they fail the saves, especially since you can't fall back on Knockdown.
Admittedly my favorite assassin build is Ranger 10/Assassin 18/Blackguard 2. You get a pretty good death attack DC, lots of sneak dice and you get your discipline dump.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
Assassin isn't restrictive conceptually - You almost never see an Evil character get shifted to Good, you know? It's Good PCs that have to be careful not to go down the slippery slope (and even then, it's hard to get shifted). The alignment is a guide, not a straightjacket.
No, it's not restricted conceptually, but actually, mechanically, it is. You must be evil to further advance in the Assassin class. And if you're going to invest 14 + levels in an inherently evil class, then it should have some sort of bearing on your RP.
serbiris wrote:
.....(sneak attack only increases in rogue or SD).....
Shadow Dancer doesn't have any affect on Sneak Attacks. Assassin, Rogue, and Blackguard are the only classes that have Sneak Attack.
...SD on the other hand is an entirely defensive class...
Also have to mention, there are some wicked offensive ShadowDancer builds out there, both melee and caster. It's all about the concept and what you want to do with the character.
Int for getting KC skills, can be lowered if KC is desired at endgame as opposed to earlier on.
Due to no epic spells, Wis is not really needed. I'm really not sure dumping 6 of the 7 ability increases in to Cha is worth it (as I can reach the +5 mod for KC maximisation through items) and perhaps putting them in to Con instead, maybe even lowering Wis down to 16 Base (making it 18 after racial) and gaining 14 Con (21 after ability scores) or Dex (15 and then 22 respectively)?
If you haven't guessed, this is the healer from hell (an ironic thing to name it, I know). HiPSing with Medicant on, throwing bandages on the fighters as they battle and casting (Mass) Heal if needs must. Unless going against an Elf or someone maxed in spot, they should be rather useful in PvP provided there aren't fireballs being flung in their face.
I doubt I'll be the one to use this build, but I'm curious as to what you all think about it? This is a character who not only relies on a team, but would effectively be the core support, able to hide if they get wiped out by an overwhelming swarm of monsters and cast resurrections.
_________________
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
You've got your class spread and stats listed, but no feats or skills, hard to really make a solid comment about it. Judging from stats alone, you've got no attack skills, and magic skills are also pretty lackluster. If you're gonna be a pure healer, then max wisdom as much as you can.
Ranger10/Blackguard2/Assasin 18 gets free two weapon feats for when you have targets with a low enough AC that you could just destroy them with it, or have a group backing you up in PvE as well, I forgot to mention. It's a nice little cherry on top for people who want to do tons of damage in a short amount of time.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
Assassin isn't restrictive conceptually - You almost never see an Evil character get shifted to Good, you know? It's Good PCs that have to be careful not to go down the slippery slope (and even then, it's hard to get shifted). The alignment is a guide, not a straightjacket.
No, it's not restricted conceptually, but actually, mechanically, it is. You must be evil to further advance in the Assassin class. And if you're going to invest 14 + levels in an inherently evil class, then it should have some sort of bearing on your RP.
You misunderstand me. What I'm saying is all that is required to play an assassin concept is a focus on deadly assassin strikes (because it /is/ a major class feature). Everything else is gravy - you can be a cold sociopath or a misunderstood hero or any number of things. The alignment on your character sheet means very little, and for anyone already slapped with Evil it means utter zilch. And why shouldn't it? Plenty of people will argue that the alignment system is a piece of junk anyway.
Quote:
serbiris wrote:
.....(sneak attack only increases in rogue or SD).....
Shadow Dancer doesn't have any affect on Sneak Attacks. Assassin, Rogue, and Blackguard are the only classes that have Sneak Attack.
Well yes, the rest of my post which you kindly excised makes it rather clear that I meant to type assassin instead of SD.
O'Raghailligh wrote:
serbiris wrote:
...SD on the other hand is an entirely defensive class...
Also have to mention, there are some wicked offensive ShadowDancer builds out there, both melee and caster. It's all about the concept and what you want to do with the character.
Builds, yes offensive. The class levels are not - a 3/4 AB and abilities which mainly inhibit enemy attacks, and only create worthwhile offensive options when synergised with sneak attack.
Ranger/SD/Assassin is pretty viable but probably more for melee types.
What're the 2 Blackguard levels for though, Geraldo? You need 3 levels for Aura of Despair.
I've always wanted to mix those two anyhow -- Assassin and BG. I was thinking of using Monk as the base class. Unarmed, kamas - not sure. 8 Monk/3 BG/19 Assassin or 9M/3BG/18ASN, I guess?
I actually was just about to correct myself on this. I made a mistake on that, sorry. Still, ranger/blackguard/assassin could be fun in different combinations. It won't get ITWF sure, bit it's pretty nice.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
7 Fighter 5 Master Scout 18 Assassin gets Improved Two Weapon Fighting and IKD, the Ranger Sneak Feat, Dash, Epic Weapon Specialization, +2 AB in Wilderness Areas, a bonus feat from Master Scout in pre-epic and in epic, crafted weapon essences, +5 Universal Saves for 10 minutes and perma freedom. It outshines any Ranger/Assassin variant you can develop. Aura of Despair just isn't worth the fact that you need to expend feats on power attack and cleave when you won't use them on a Dexterity based character.
9 Monk 3 BG 18 Assassin
Only variant that makes sense, in my opinion, for the Aura of Despair on an Assassin because you net Improved Evasion for "free" from the 9th level of monk which is a prerequisite for epic dodge thus freeing up an epic Assassin Feat for Crippling Strike or something else.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
Thinking about a ftr/wiz/pm; dex-based using rapier and TS, air gen w/ starting stats:
Str 12 Dex 18 (26) lvl ups + grt dex OR (24) - 5 lvl ups +1 grt dex Con 14 Int 18 // (20) 2 lvl ups [if I take only 10 pm and 24 dex] Wis 6 Chr 6
My main question is level split: is it worth it to take 20 pm and go 4/6/20, or should I go 4/16/10 or 4/14/12 (for +2 AC at PM 12)? If I take 20 PM will use PM summon, if 10 then EMD. Main focus will be defense w/ high AC & crit immune, int will be low so no DC spells, right? Am I correct that spell progession is (1/2)PM lvl + wiz lvl so 20pm/6wiz would get lvl 8 spells max? 10 pm also allows for final ftr lvl at 30 for disc dump.
So is this a viable build and if so which version is best?
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