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DukeDublin
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 Posted: Fri, Jan 06 2017, 22:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 May 2015
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"I'd like to roll for initiative."
It's not perfect but at least it incorporates stats?
*this thread is scary*
_________________
You will likely not see me as:
Fymor Trueshot
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Commie
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Posted: Fri, Jan 06 2017, 22:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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DukeDublin wrote: "I'd like to roll for initiative."
It's not perfect but at least it incorporates stats?
*this thread is scary* you actually do roll initiative in nwn, it's part of the engine. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Initiativeedit; gonna put this on the new page with a minor change Quote: 1. Amia is a role-playing server, not a PvP arena server. 2. All PvP must have a role-playing reason. PvP without a sensible reason is not allowed. Your character's alignment is not a valid reason for PvP. Summons, such as undead, are a valid reason but do not excuse you from the below protocol. 3. IC Actions lead to IC Consequences. If you initiate a conflict (by insults or thievery, for example), you can't expect to get away with it. You cannot ignore other players' RP or declare it null. If you don't allow people to walk away don't expect the gang that comes after you to do the same.Technicalities: 4. You must give the other party clear IC indication of your intentions to attack. 5. You should try and set all members of the opposing party to Hostile before performing hostile actions. You can do this with the tool in your inventory or through the player list, but sometimes things move to fast for this to be enforceable, and pvp will not be undone on the technicality that 'not all party members were hostiled.' 6. If you do not give the other party time to observe the usual protocol, you can't expect them to stick to the protocol. This means that by resting, buffing or other such preperations to hostility, you forfeit your right to a warning: The other party may attack you immediately to stop you. 7. The above goes for fleeing from hostile situations: If you turn tail and run without a word to avoid IC consequence, you can expect to be stopped by any means possible. Always give others reasonable time to react with RP! 8. Subdualing/killing: see http://www.amiaworld.net/about/pvp.html 9. Assassinations: Assassins must inform a DM that they are about to perform a hit. If a DM is unavailable, the assassin must inform the target instead. 10. If you clearly escape scene, you may not continue the ”same” PvP later, unless such behavior is explicitly agreed by all involved parties; If you meet again it is a new encounter. Factions or gangs can work with a DM for a 'mutual aggression' exception for ongoing hostilities. 11. Traps are considered PvP. 12. If robbed, you are not required to hand over items you do not wish to give away OOCly; emoting that they are transferred ICly is sufficient. 13. If your character is captured, and the character who caught him/her wishes to keep your character locked away, they can do so for a period of 24 RL hours, without your OOC consent. However, roleplay with the captive must be provided for those 24 hours. If it is not, then you cannot force the captive character to remain "locked away", unless you come to an OOC agreement on the matter. Keeping a character captive for longer than 24 RL hours requires the OOC consent of the player of the captive PC. In certain instances a DM can enforce captivity, but this is rarely done. 14. You don't remember anything that happened 5 minutes before you died, at all. Unless there's a very good reason, you have no idea HOW you died, outside of pain from where you were struck, or other minor residual effects. As an example, if someone ran up, stabbed you to death, and ran off, accomplishing this in 2 rounds, you remember nothing. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
Last edited by Commie on Fri, Jan 06 2017, 22:46 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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DukeDublin
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Posted: Fri, Jan 06 2017, 22:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 May 2015
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Commie wrote: DukeDublin wrote: "I'd like to roll for initiative."
It's not perfect but at least it incorporates stats?
*this thread is scary* you actually do roll initiative in nwn, it's part of the engine. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/InitiativeThat kind of initiative roll is a limp wet noodle.
_________________
You will likely not see me as:
Fymor Trueshot
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Akhlys
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Posted: Fri, Jan 06 2017, 22:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2015
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bring back dread
_________________ Ｍ Ａ Ｉ Ｔ Ｉ
Ｔ Ａ Ｔ Ｕ
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Jan 06 2017, 23:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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CratzBlade113 wrote: Commie wrote: lilmarcat wrote: As an additional note to this, some towns like Wiltun have global no-pvp on, so you can litterally run your mouth insulting someone there all day without fear of "PVP" reprisal. This needs to be changed and should have been changed a long time ago. Why? The whole point is that it's a Jarldom, and the rule is "No weapons bared in the Keep. Lest your arms be removed." Removing the global no-pvp setting makes it so that there's NO way for that to be enforced. We're dipping back into the realm of "this upsets me so it should be changed." Wiltun was No PvP because hacking griefers would log in and abuse people there. That's it. That's the only reason.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Jan 06 2017, 23:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Commie wrote: Gribbo wrote: OpenTheRift wrote: It's worth restating that if you are -killed- you are beholden to a five minute mind-wipe, so feel free to defend your name if you feel you got fucked. Unless there was a new ruling this is not actually a rule or enforced sadly. yeah that's not a rule. you remember literally everything up to the exact instant you died, including specific details like who and what and who said what and what they sounded like and if you know who it was. This was discussed while I was a DM and languished and died. It had a lot of support. Please enforce it.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Shadowfiend
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Posted: Fri, Jan 06 2017, 23:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King
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Personally I've seen the dislike as the warning of PvP, that if I didn't back down asap then I could expect PvP soon. I've never really given OOC warnings beforehand, as imo if you have to warn for PvP OOCly to happen then you either: A) don't have a good reason for the PvP, or B) haven't rp'd and made it clear enough that you're going to attack. (This of course doesn't count for assassins, or other characters that are watching from stealth, tho I still expect a dislike from the characters in stealth).
Also, remember, every character and person has a limit. I remember once attacking someone without really warning them before PvP. I remember a moment as Earalenia when some people started arguing with her, and after a while before Earalenia got to say what she felt she had to, they decided to just walk away. I engaged in PvP, it felt natural. I got surprised when a DM was suddenly poking me about it, and I explained my side. It was one of those moments my character had been pushed to the point where PvP was the only right choice, IC consequences lead to IC actions, and I never had any repercussions for it.
Side not I think all the metagaming I am noticing also ties in with this toxicity: People are so mad at each other on a personal level that they feel like they have to use any means possible to win, I just see metagaming being used far too often in conflict.
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I am not weird, I am limited edition
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That Guy
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Posted: Sat, Jan 07 2017, 0:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Quote: Shadowfiend said:
I am noticing also ties in with this toxicity: People are so mad at each other on a personal level that they feel like they have to use any means possible to win, This.
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thunderbrush
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Posted: Sat, Jan 07 2017, 3:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Location: The belly of the beast
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*deleted for posterity*
_________________
Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.
Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.
Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased
Last edited by thunderbrush on Sat, Jan 07 2017, 4:14 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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Commie
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Posted: Sat, Jan 07 2017, 3:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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thunderbrush wrote: It's not in the PvP rules, its in the death rules. OTR is correct. where are the death rules written? this is relevant. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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thunderbrush
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Posted: Sat, Jan 07 2017, 3:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Location: The belly of the beast
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Lemme check. I'll send you a pm.
_________________
Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.
Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.
Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased
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thunderbrush
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Posted: Sat, Jan 07 2017, 8:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Location: The belly of the beast
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So...it's not a rule...just something that tells you how to act before leave the Grey Wastes. More of a strong suggestion? Should be removed or enforced. In my opinion.
_________________
Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.
Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.
Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased
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Commie
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Posted: Sat, Jan 07 2017, 9:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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thunderbrush wrote: So...it's not a rule...just something that tells you how to act before leave the Grey Wastes. More of a strong suggestion? Should be removed or enforced. In my opinion. I whole-heartedly agree. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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robbi320
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 11:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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Wiltun:
Another thing I dislike there is that there is a training ring that even sells practise weapons. There isn't a melee dummy though. If I want to RP practise in Wiltun, I need a PC to spar with him. Except even that won't work because PvP is turned off. So no RP practise in Wiltun.
Death:
Yes. While, again, I have total bias because one of my characters (I used to call him my main, but I'm a bit frustrated with him) is an Assassin, but it screws Assassins up completely. You have to give a metagameable warning, and then your target remembers you. I mean, I know hoods and helmets weirdly are not failsafe. I've been metagamed through a helmet. So even the Assassin who wears a helmet and almost instantly kills his mark with a backstab/KD/Paralysis/Blind and would not even be seen, let alone recognised, will likely be banned for his Assassination.
As a side-note, how does murdering witnesses work? Let's say this assassin is seen. It would be totally IC to try to kill the witness, so is that enough RP to warrant the "giving of the outs"? I'm still saying this character would get an OOC out, I might even try to look for an IC one (which would likely be really weird RP), but would standard rules apply?
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Magiros
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 12:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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robbi320 wrote: Wiltun:
Another thing I dislike there is that there is a training ring that even sells practise weapons. There isn't a melee dummy though. If I want to RP practise in Wiltun, I need a PC to spar with him. Except even that won't work because PvP is turned off. So no RP practise in Wiltun.
If you want to request a PLC dummy that you can spar with. I promise to pay the cost of it. Go, spar, fight... Rule!
_________________
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm
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robbi320
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 13:48 PM |
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Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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I appreciate that, I'm just not quite sure how that'd work, I mean, Djinn would be for stuff like this, but the character who would want this did not ever have 100,000 gold, and no chance of spending that for a prop.
Using DCs would imply making it in some way, and he can't craft..
In general, I know sparring can be done well in Kohl and Bendir, but I'd like to do that in a less 'we are good here' place...
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Magiros
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 14:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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They are not that complex nor expensive to make anyhow. For example: Stuffed bag with haycould be for archery. For sparring with melee, would imagine a a piece of wood, if fancier then simply having added "separate" head and hands. Would imagine that every settlement has materials around to make one and not so expensive. Just the fact how fancy it is wanted to be, will make the difference in actual skills to have it made. If the person is a Wiltun militia or a faction there, if there is any. I don't see why they could not simply request one to be "borrowed", dragging it to the field for practice and then "returning" it to the militia. There are ways.  But I do agree, it would make sense there to be one because it is military settlement.
_________________
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm
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Tarnus
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 14:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Aug 2015
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_________________
Playing as:
Aleana Xiloscient: Wherever the winds take her.
Jealesyl Truesong: A voice in the dark
DM Prometheus: Bringing you fire
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Richard_Edmund
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 15:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Location: Western Australia (+8 GMT)
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Those ones are destroyed very easily to the point they're useful for nothing but decoration, the ones you buy from the Djinn are indestructible.
_________________
Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand
Discord: Bhaalorian#5715
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Tarnus
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 15:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Aug 2015
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That bad? Hm, might be worth a look for the devs then.
_________________
Playing as:
Aleana Xiloscient: Wherever the winds take her.
Jealesyl Truesong: A voice in the dark
DM Prometheus: Bringing you fire
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thunderbrush
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 16:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Location: The belly of the beast
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There are several simulacrum spells (for the purpose of trashing as a dummy) premade on the vault that with minimum scripting could be set to idle, rather than hostile. Oddly enough, you could also use them as decoys in pve...but that would be silly..and maybe even a little cool.
_________________
Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.
Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.
Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased
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Strikeclone
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 19:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
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thunderbrush wrote: I can shed some light on this, as I was the one who engaged in questionable pvp. I think the in character reaction was accurate. What's up for debate are the rules in place. Typically in such a setting you would need a dm to assume the role of guard, which none was available. The call was made on my behalf, that the two evil guys being nonstop insulted by two others would not just go on until the clearly stronger bad guys walk away with tails between they're legs, verbally defeated by a game mechanic. It's unrealistic and unsporting to abuse the rules as such. Too much of this goes on. If your character wants to just leave and go level..do that. If you want to RP. That's cool too. But when the RP is combative in nature...as it tends to be when you are arguing with a Banite, RDD Blackguard...at some point if you dont want pvp, you should probably leave. Right around the time he slowly puts his gear on, draws his sword and stares at you. I don't know what else to say. Sorry. I was playing my character the best I knew how, and getting punked by a "Gruff Dwarf" wasn't in his stars. I hope you can understand this is clearly an IC behavior. Again, sorry if feelings were hurt, but I assure you it could have been settled on the spot with a discussion. You stopped a group of lowbies who were literally gathered around the cart to be taken to Bendir to begin a hunt, you accosted one of the group for some reason and grumpy Charisma 6 Dwarf told you to get on with it and jog on so we could get on with the hunt. You immediately one shotted the dwarf who was around level 10 at the time without preamble not to mention the meta gaming of the guards even after being asked politely not to meta game the guards. You were not subjected to a barrage of insults and neither was anyone else and no one was actively hostile or threatening to your character or anyone else nearby, and when asked oocly why you just attacked your reply was words to the effect ''I'm a red dragon kin''' So let's review the highlights  You randomly stopped a low level party as they were about to use the cart to go on a hunt. But the claimed this party were offered "outs" although in fact you offered nothing of the sort except some aggressive rp which was happily returned in kind for the fun of all involved. You stopped the group because you apparently wanted the players to metagame your level and have that alter the rp of the encounter so that we all bowed and scraped to your character even though if memory serves your character never did bother to mention why he stopped the group in the first place. You deleted what was actually some entertaining role play by your maniacal need to win pvp with you epic level versus a level 10. You then bring it to the forum rather than private messages with those involved. I'm sure there are rules about this but I have to say the fact you put your distorted version up here for approval in the court of popular opinion of those who were not there tells me you know you were in the wrong but seek to paint yourself the victim. If you must discuss it I'd much rather you spoke privately to those involved, there is a reason I didn't vent my spleen on this forum after your actions. Good taste. Edited for spelling and grammar after the original posting was mangled by mobile phone autocorrect.
_________________
Æ special character = ALT+0198
Party chat filtered, RP or it didn’t happen
Last edited by Strikeclone on Sat, Jan 14 2017, 23:55 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Commie
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 19:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Strikeclone wrote: thunderbrush wrote: I can shed some light on this, as I was the one who engaged in questionable pvp. I think the in character reaction was accurate. What's up for debate are the rules in place. Typically in such a setting you would need a dm to assume the role of guard, which none was available. The call was made on my behalf, that the two evil guys being nonstop insulted by two others would not just go on until the clearly stronger bad guys walk away with tails between they're legs, verbally defeated by a game mechanic. It's unrealistic and unsporting to abuse the rules as such. Too much of this goes on. If your character wants to just leave and go level..do that. If you want to RP. That's cool too. But when the RP is combative in nature...as it tends to be when you are arguing with a Banite, RDD Blackguard...at some point if you dont want pvp, you should probably leave. Right around the time he slowly puts his gear on, draws his sword and stares at you. I don't know what else to say. Sorry. I was playing my character the best I knew how, and getting punked by a "Gruff Dwarf" wasn't in his stars. I hope you can understand this is clearly an IC behavior. Again, sorry if feelings were hurt, but I assure you it could have been settled on the spot with a discussion. You stopped a group of lobbies who were literally gathered around the cart to be directed, you accosted one of the group for some reason and grumpy Charisma 6 dwarf told you to get on with it and jog on so we could get on with the hunt. You immediately one shotted the dwarf who was around level 10 at the time without preamble not to mention the meta gaming of the guards even after being asked politely not to meta game the guards. When asked why you did this your reply was words to the effect ''I'm a red dragon kin''' So let's review the highlights You stopped the low level party as they were about to use the cart to go on a hunt. But the claimed you gave ghetto party an out. You deleted what was actually some entertaining role play by your maniacal need to win pvp with you epic level versus a level 10. You then bring it to the forum rather than private message with those involved. I'm sure there are rules about this but I have to say the fact you put your distorted version up here for approval in the court of those who were not there tells me you know you were in the wrong but seek to paint youself the victim. If you must discuss it I'd much rather you spoke privately to those involved, there is a reason I didn't vent my spleen on this forum after your actions. Good taste. Where is this coming from? _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Strikeclone
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 23:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
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Commie wrote: Where is this coming from? I was the dwarf, I was posting from my mobile earlier and seemed to have not made that bit clear in my blurb. P.S. Also you can update your quote text as I had to edit the original to purge autocorrect errors from mobile posting, or leave it as it is as evidence.
_________________
Æ special character = ALT+0198
Party chat filtered, RP or it didn’t happen
Last edited by Strikeclone on Sat, Jan 14 2017, 23:56 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 23:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I strongly subscribe to "talk shit get hit." Ooc level shouldn't be pvp immunity.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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MightNMagic
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 23:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Location: Space Australia
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Rules... Rules... Rules... We've got unnecessary rules for days.
The best RP servers I've been to went by K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid) and their PvP "rules" usually only went like this:
1. Have roleplay reasoning for your RP beyond "I'm evil."
and
2. There is no 2.
And on those servers, player death actually *costs you something*. (Exp, a level, an item, money...)
Here, there is literally *no* penalty for dying in PvP. Wait a few minutes, get up. Ta-da. And yet, people *still* give a sh!t and throw a tantrum when they die for some reason. I do not get it.
I never engage in PvP here, simply because I don't wanna tell the other guy to wait five minutes while I click on that sidebar over there and make a bloody flowchart to ensure someone doesn't declare I fumbled the secret handshake AND after I win, see a five page rant about the other guy losing and getting his feelings and ego hurt about it. No thanks.
_________________
Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind
Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice
(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)
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Budly
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 23:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town
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MightNMagic wrote: Rules... Rules... Rules... We've got unnecessary rules for days.
The best RP servers I've been to went by K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid) and their PvP "rules" usually only went like this:
1. Have roleplay reasoning for your RP beyond "I'm evil."
and
2. There is no 2.
And on those servers, player death actually *costs you something*. (Exp, a level, an item, money...)
Here, there is literally *no* penalty for dying in PvP. Wait a few minutes, get up. Ta-da. And yet, people *still* give a sh!t and throw a tantrum when they die for some reason. I do not get it.
I never engage in PvP here, simply because I don't wanna tell the other guy to wait five minutes while I click on that sidebar over there and make a bloody flowchart to ensure someone doesn't declare I fumbled the secret handshake AND after I win, see a five page rant about the other guy losing and getting his feelings and ego hurt about it. No thanks. A punishment for dying would be devestating if someone just ran aroudn, going rampage without reason. Even if they break a rule, the harm is already done.
_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
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Strikeclone
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Posted: Sat, Jan 14 2017, 23:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
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TormakSaber wrote: I strongly subscribe to "talk shit get hit." Ooc level shouldn't be pvp immunity. This isn't even relevant to the situation, I suspect the rules we are supposed to have about not bringing this shit to the forums is because everyone and their dog wants to get their say in usually in complete ignorance of the facts. I'm not going to go into the details and facts of the encounter if the players feel aggrieved enough they should bring it to the DMs and not the forum, furthermore the grievance I had with the encounter was less the RP which is not something debatable here but the fucks not given about the server rules and good form between players. I though the entire event was nonsense and said as much at the time and everyone agreed or seem to agree to disagree but just get on with their playing, and saw as much point running to the DMs as to the cause of the role play killing pvp in the first place. I.E. No point. Anyone who actually wants to be informed as to the facts is free to PM me to discuss it. Frankly I'm surprised (although I don't know why) that you don't have more of a problem with people metagaming guards. thunderbrush wrote: For the person killed. Sorry bud. It was my character. Like you I was also trying to RP. I was even so much as being polite at first...Your character chose to instigate a fight...I don't know what else to say. Apologies for misreading your intent. The only character "instigating a fight" was your character you came out of the city followed the party and stopped us at the cart to Bendir and was asked in grumpy dwarf terms to get on with whatever it was your character wanted, your response was to end the RP with pvp with a level 30 vs a party of level 10ish characters breaking a core rule about meta gaming the guards. You were not provoked to pvp, you wanted pvp and are revising the facts to support your choices, I thought it was out of order then and frankly I find it despicable that you have used this thread to cast aspersions on the players involved by talking utter shit about what occured Icly. Which you no doubt know will be taken up by readers ignorant of the situation and the case judged as I said before in the court of popular opinion of those who were not there. I now regret not taking screen shots and bringing it up with the DMs and calling you out properly, but at the time I was glad to get on with playing the game, not a mercy mistake I will make again be assured. That is all I have to say here, if anyone wants to know the facts as I have said they can discuss it privately with me. SC.
_________________
Æ special character = ALT+0198
Party chat filtered, RP or it didn’t happen
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robbi320
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 0:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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Again, I'm biased, but but how can you actually say that thunderbrush came in intending PvP?
Secondly, 'grumpy dwarven terms'... A lot of times, this can actually be a very mean statement. Dwarves have a -2 Cha on purpose. Now, piecing together what I know, thunderbrush was playing an RDD. This would mean that you were just mean to something that comes close to one of the most vain creatures in the whole setting... A grumpy dwarf is IC. A vain, aggressive RDD is IC. When they clash, either be the one to back down, especially when your character is weaker. Otherwise, you can expect to suffer the consequences. Quite honestly, when my characters say something mean, I know that at some point they will get their ass handed to them. But when someone who is clearly weaker than my character (and you actually know that IC) isn't super polite to me, my character might just react volatile. And these characters are a WM, a Pale Master and an Assassin. I don't think you'd want to see what a dragon character of mine would do...
On the other hand, if you think it was such a big issue, you can take it to the DMs even without proof. If a single person gets many reports, even without proof, in many cases it will even be a stronger message than a single incident with proof. Is it really fair? No, but it's how the human brain works.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 4:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: Frankly I'm surprised (although I don't know why) that you don't have more of a problem with people metagaming guards. I'm a proponent of less guard power, more PC autonomy. I'd like to see the silver dragons by minmir removed, and the cordor guards in the frontier removed. I don't like the idea of being able to hide behind an NPC that can't be played by a DM to escape the consequences of your actions. As far as I'm concerned, guards in smaller areas, or Roadwardens, couldn't actually interfere in the vast majority of PvP that goes down anyways, and would be relegated to damage control. Basically: If it's not Wiltun, Cordor, Kohl, Tarkuul and maybe Barak Runedar, those NPCs don't have a chance. I'm not advocated ignoring NPCs, but I also don't think NPCs and the lack of DM should prevent people from getting their comeuppance.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 4:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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TormakSaber wrote: Quote: Frankly I'm surprised (although I don't know why) that you don't have more of a problem with people metagaming guards. I'm a proponent of less guard power, more PC autonomy. I'd like to see the silver dragons by minmir removed, and the cordor guards in the frontier removed. I don't like the idea of being able to hide behind an NPC that can't be played by a DM to escape the consequences of your actions. As far as I'm concerned, guards in smaller areas, or Roadwardens, couldn't actually interfere in the vast majority of PvP that goes down anyways, and would be relegated to damage control. Basically: If it's not Wiltun, Cordor, Kohl, Tarkuul and maybe Barak Runedar, those NPCs don't have a chance. I'm not advocated ignoring NPCs, but I also don't think NPCs and the lack of DM should prevent people from getting their comeuppance. Yeah I agree with this. Silver dragons are out by the merc camp too. It's crazy, those guys are everywhere. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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thunderbrush
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 5:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Location: The belly of the beast
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For the record, my character was going shopping. RP had other ideas.
_________________
Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.
Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.
Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased
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RaveN
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 14:15 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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I remember when I first joined the dev team I complained about those silver knights next to the bridge for months. My legacy lives on! Maybe one day people will realize the problem with putting invincible guards everywhere. 
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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robbi320
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 15:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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Minmir and Frontier: Guards really do not need to be there. If Cordor really cares about what is out there, there wouldn't be any goblins right next to the guards.
The same goes for the Silver Dragons by Minmir. I know we have a skewed sense of logistics here, I mean, I don't want to play a city simulator, but why are they there? Why is there a group of maurauding beastmen in between them and Kohlingen? How are they not killed by the beastmen?
Similar for the roadwardens. Those are even worse, because you can't really do anything around them. They are not aligned with the grove. What are they aligned with then? Do they kill goblins on sight? Trolls? Demons? Undead? Celestials? Anything?
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RaveN
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 15:25 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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Honestly it makes no sense. With the vast power they have, it makes no sense why any monster is allowed to live nearby. Why are there bandits next to Wharftown if they've got an army of OP soliders in which one could literally drive the entire population extinct. The power Kohlingen has outside of Kohlingen is akin to a cancerous growth to what's supposed to be an adventure game, imho. The guards don't really appear to be there for any other reason than to police the server in an OOC fashion.
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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The1Kobra
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 15:28 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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As far as I know, the guards on the frontier and bridge do not stop PvP, at least I've never ruled that when I was a DM. They're more there to represent that the cities are actively doing stuff about the monster populations that constantly raid caravans and the cities themselves if they get too bold.
The insides of the towns are another matter.
_________________ I play: 
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RaveN
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 15:32 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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If they don't stop PvP, why are they even there? In my experience, they have stopped PvP, even attacking us. The DM even spam spawned them on us until we ran away, since it was predetermined we were to have no success.
Really, this situation is very similar to Guldurand and now Wharftown. A normal fishing town, or lumber town with no defenses. Now instead of actual RP, it seems someone copy and pastad a bunch of guards, and you might as well have security checkpoints in a medieval setting. Notice Tarkuul guards aren't littered everywhere? They really need to go, and yes, it's been tried IC.
Safe space for dayzzz
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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The1Kobra
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 15:50 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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Actually, the reason for Wharftown's militarization was because the town was under constant threat by forces that would have definitely razed the town had they not gotten serious about the town's defenses, like what had happened to Uhm. Usually, that's how it is, push hard enough and the towns push back. That's why Bendir's walls were expanded too, because they were under constant threat and they wanted to not get stomped into the ground. It's sort of the expected reaction when a small town faces massive threats like what they have had to go through.
In Guldorand's case, it's because Cordor sort of annexed the town, and the provisional government did a 'reassignment to Siberia' for the guards that wouldn't go along with their corruption.
_________________ I play:
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RaveN
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 15:59 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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Militarization is one thing. In the feudal age, that meant people put on their helmets and beg their kings for soldiers to help them hold on to what they have so it doesn't get raided. For me, the fact that these places flick a switch and have the hand of god defending them is a definite immersion breaker. I get that people RP'd for all this stuff, but it's just ridiculous for an adventure server. It's marking areas off limits.. except it's half of the server now. RP or no RP, if you create a safe space for people that ignores everyone else, that's all it is.
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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walnutboy
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 16:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Location: Lincolnshire, United Kingdom
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The guards outside Cordor i can understand, most settlements that border a castle or walled city and provide that castle/city with resources... this case some basic farming and the like, may well expect some level of protections from the outside world such as monsters and the like. The stopping of fights between adventurers and locals though may well be seen as more work than its worth by the guards posted out there... what guard loves gate duty? That said the guards just over the bridge are there to monitor who goes IN to the city and not break up conflict outside of their walls unless Cordors government are planning to expand and take over those settlements which spring up close to the city and provide it with resources. As for the ones round the campfire by the ruin... pretty sure they are grumpy about being there and far less likely to help anyone let alone stop adventurers killing each other! As for the Silver Dragons... yeah that one always confused me as what are they actually keeping safe? The road, preventing the beastmen moving in? Failing somewhat there given that there is a second entrance closer to the city the beastmen can use and bypass them! Then there is the blood trail that leads to the second entrance to those caves... guess that doesn't bother them nor too the ruined cart... further evidence that they are not protecting the road i wager!! From what i understand of the road wardens they would be a better fit there, a camp within the ruins nearby that WARN of the threats like the beastmen and the tunnel under the river as well as inform about the road roads beyond and where they lead. My impression of the Road Wardens Non Player Faction is that they are there to watch the roads and keep travelers and users safe from the monsters and wildlife all while pointing the way to civilisation, not as guards to cities or upholders of law... a light in the night as it were. ... or have i got the feel of them wrong? 
_________________
When it rains, look for rainbows.
When it's dark, look for stars.
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robbi320
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 16:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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While that kind of does solve PvP, it does nothing to help with questionable summons. If an undead walks by there, how will even the Cordor guards react?
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 16:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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RaveN wrote: Militarization is one thing. In the feudal age, that meant people put on their helmets and beg their kings for soldiers to help them hold on to what they have so it doesn't get raided. For me, the fact that these places flick a switch and have the hand of god defending them is a definite immersion breaker. I get that people RP'd for all this stuff, but it's just ridiculous for an adventure server. It's marking areas off limits.. except it's half of the server now. RP or no RP, if you create a safe space for people that ignores everyone else, that's all it is. exactly. it's hard to consider it an 'adventure' when you can likely get to an npc guard within 2 transitions from almost anywhere. not to mention the shit people do around those guards and then tell you that you can't retaliate ooc. shit's dumb. pull em all back inside. make the 'frontier' a frontier again, and step down the silver-dragon babysitting of camps/bridges/whatever. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Kudark
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 16:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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robbi320 wrote: Similar for the roadwardens. Those are even worse, because you can't really do anything around them. They are not aligned with the grove. What are they aligned with then? Do they kill goblins on sight? Trolls? Demons? Undead? Celestials? Anything? The Road Wardens are aligned with no city, or faction, they are their own "faction" per say. Their job is to guide the carts and wagons, and give the occasional direction. It should also be noted on an ooc level, that much of their information is outdated, and could use an update. _________________ 
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robbi320
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 17:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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Yes to Commie, to Kudark: And what happens when a goblin walks up to them? As far as I've understood, they also guard the roads, which would mean clear them of evil goblins and orcs.
And the general stigma of undead. Normal people likely wouldn't react to undead or a demon with 'Oh, I don't really feel like guard duty, I'll let him do what he wants.'
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Kudark
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 21:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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I would assume that the Road Wardens will defend themselves, or a cart, but they generally keep to themselves, from my experience on the server.
_________________
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 21:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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If the roadwardens don't care about seeing PvP, then it might be a good idea of put that in their bios. Preferably in a IC statement, but even OOC confirmation would work. It eliminates the need to check forums and such, so it is a constant IG reminder they can't be arsed to care about your squabbles lol
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 21:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Naivatkal wrote: If the roadwardens don't care about seeing PvP, then it might be a good idea of put that in their bios. Preferably in a IC statement, but even OOC confirmation would work. It eliminates the need to check forums and such, so it is a constant IG reminder they can't be arsed to care about your squabbles lol Would be easier to add a "does care about pvp" to the NPCs that do. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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robbi320
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 21:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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Or just remove them, because if they do not have a function, why have them there? I remeber a quote that almost fits back from when I played Civilization IV Antoine de Saint Exupéry wrote: It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove.
Do we need an NPC that might react to certain things, or if not, do we need an NPC that does completely nothing, not even lore-wise? If he does not care about anything, he just is a weird NPC from something player will not interact with. Where is the point of having him? I always felt that it breaks immersion to have that random NPC that does nothing there, and who does not even even do anything in lore. Do we need a fifth wheel?
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Jan 15 2017, 21:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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robbi320 wrote: Or just remove them, because if they do not have a function, why have them there? I remeber a quote that almost fits back from when I played Civilization IV Antoine de Saint Exupéry wrote: It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove.
Do we need an NPC that might react to certain things, or if not, do we need an NPC that does completely nothing, not even lore-wise? If he does not care about anything, he just is a weird NPC from something player will not interact with. Where is the point of having him? I always felt that it breaks immersion to have that random NPC that does nothing there, and who does not even even do anything in lore. Do we need a fifth wheel? Ultimately I have to agree with this. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Jan 16 2017, 0:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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robbi320 wrote: Minmir and Frontier: Guards really do not need to be there. If Cordor really cares about what is out there, there wouldn't be any goblins right next to the guards.
The same goes for the Silver Dragons by Minmir. I know we have a skewed sense of logistics here, I mean, I don't want to play a city simulator, but why are they there? Why is there a group of maurauding beastmen in between them and Kohlingen? How are they not killed by the beastmen?
Similar for the roadwardens. Those are even worse, because you can't really do anything around them. They are not aligned with the grove. What are they aligned with then? Do they kill goblins on sight? Trolls? Demons? Undead? Celestials? Anything? The Roadwardens actually make sense: they're low power NPCs hired by the ACTF and work independantly to keep its trade interests safe. It's essentially a paid out adventurer style merchant militia. They don't interfere with adventurer squabbles, so PvP can happen by them, and it's not metagaming. They make sense on an IC level: their job is to bhandle trade issues and keep goblins and orcs and shekats away, not police faction problems. They do that swimmingly. If anything, it'd be nice to see the Road wardens walknig big long patrol routes along their areas, since that's what they tend to do. (frankly I was always surprised no PC was ever interested in trying to sign up or court their influence or anything.)
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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