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[ 35 posts ] |
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 7:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Location: Eastern Washington
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Hello amia. I give you your new strength build! Any strength build made is other than this is inferior. What's that? You wanna play a Barbarian? Well their capstone got nerfed to useless. You're gonna play a WM and you're gonna like it! "But bob! Dex is good too!" said the filthy casual Sure it is but this build will stomp it into the ground. 60 ac? More like 8 THAC0 Are there minor errors in the gear listed? Yes. Could you swap epic spellcraft focus with epic discipline? Yes. Will it be a problem in this meta? Not unless you're fighting another STR WM. You will literally mop the floor with other strength builds. Have fun no longer trying. Quote: RACE: HUMAN THE MASTER RACE SUB RACE: EARTH GENASI WITH SPELLCRAFT LAUGHS AT YOUR PATHETIC BANISH ATTEMPTS SPREAD: FIGHTER 10/WM 19/BARD 1 (EPIC SPECIALIZATION IS FOR MORTAL MEN WITH LESS THAN 52 AB) PRE-EPIC SPREAD: FIGHTER 10/ WM 10 TOASTY GOODNESS
AC: 54 in in gear you can actually get, but your REAL ac is DAMAGE AB: 52 with bulls HP: 446, 506 if you CHUG
Saves: Pre Spellcraft: Fort: 38, Reflex: 27, Will: 25
Post Spellcraft: Fort: 50, Reflex: 39, Will: 37
Self Buffing: Bless/Aid for casual encounters Truestrike for REAL MAN FIGHTS Bulls potion for +2 STR Endurance Potion for +4 CON Freedom Potion (BECAUSE BELT FREEDOM IS FOR PANSIES (belt freedom is not for pansies)) Haste (EPIC DODGE IS FOR POSERS) Flame weapon (MAKE FRIENDS WITH A SISSY ASS WIZARD)
STR 16 (18 after racial, ends at 26) DEX 13 CON 12 (14 after racial) WIS 8 (6 after racial) INT 16 CHA 8 (6 after racial)
Pre-Epic Feats: 1 Strong Soul, Luck of Heroes 3 Mobility 6 Spring Attack 9 Improved Critical 12 Improved Knockdown 15 Blind Fight 18 Great Fortitude
Fighter 1 Weapon Focus Fighter 2 Dodge Fighter 4 Weapon Specialization Fighter 6 Expertise Fighter 8 Whirlwind Attack Fighter 10 Knockdown
Epic Feats: 21 Great Strenght I 24 Epic Fortitude 27 Epic Will 30 Epic Spellcraft (PEW PEW I DODGE LASERS)
Weapon Master 13 Epic Weapon Focus Weapon Master 16 Armor Skin Weapon Master 19 Epic Prowess
Skills: Discipline 33 Concentration 33 Spellcraft 32 Tumble 30 UMD 12 Taunt 33 Intimidate 4 (8 cross class ranks) Heal 21
Gear Helmet: +5 Discipline, +2 STR, Water Breathing (Crab Helmet - Whaftown, mythal comletely) Chest: +5 AC, +2 STR (Any +5 chest, mythal +2 STR) Shield: +5 AC, +1 CON (Any +5 shield, mythal +1 CON ) Cloak: +4 AC, +4 Universal (Fort Cloak +4, lootbin) Gloves: +15 Spellcraft or +15 Discipline, +2 Universal (Situational Skill Gloves - djinn gear, mythal +2 Uni) Ring 1: +2 CON, +1 Univeral, Water Breathing (Gills, Mythal Completely) Rind 2: Evasion, +2 STR, -2 Reflex (Totally mandatory epic loot, get ASAP) Belt: +2 STR, +3 Universal Saves (Gauntlet or Abyss. One of the two) Amulet: +5 AC, +1 CON (Any +5 Amulet, mythal +1 con) Boots: +5 AC, +2 STR, (Djinn Merchant)
NOTE ON GEAR:
This tries to use as few farming epics as possible and just stick to flawless mythal shards where it can and I think it does a good job of that. Despite what people say, flawless shards are still reasonably easy to get. Also just use whatever weapon you want unless you're some pansy who uses exotic weapons. There is an epic wish list but it's superfluous and unnecessary to play this build.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
Last edited by bobofwestoregonusa on Tue, Nov 27 2018, 1:24 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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The1Kobra
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 11:39 AM |
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Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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Just so you're aware, the spellcraft bonus falls within the +20 cap on saving throws from gear and buffs. It means that you're getting only +10 of your projected +12, since you already have +10 unisaves on gear. Similarly, the reflex ring's -2 does not detract from this total, so you only get a +18 to reflex in total.
10/10/6 (Pre-Epic) 15/15/11 (Epic) 17/16/9 (Stats) 25/17/15 (Feats) 27/17/15 (With CON gear) 37/25/25 (Gear) 47/35/35 (Spellcraft)
_________________ I play:
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Commie
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 15:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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barbarian is still good as you can push 40's with proper feat investment on terrifying rage. you can't just go like 18 barbarian and walk around with a 70 will vs fear. now it's 28 barbarian and 40 vs fear.
edit; also 52 ab buffed on a WM? that's no good. My shifter hits 54/56 (inside/outside) self buffed.
Edited: spelling
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
Last edited by Commie on Sat, May 20 2017, 20:36 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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That Guy
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 15:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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He means 52 ab + buffs. 52 is just with the weapon. BTW Bob? I reaalllyyy hope you're being totally tongue in cheek about the best str build, because... sorry, this is not it, lol.
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robbi320
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 15:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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That Guy wrote: He means 52 ab + buffs. 52 is just with the weapon. BTW Bob? I reaalllyyy hope you're being totally tongue in cheek about the best str build, because... sorry, this is not it, lol. Jus to entertain a fun discussion, what is better then?
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That Guy
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 15:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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The standard 12/16/2 WM is better, they can get Imp Expertise and have evasion built in, as well as EWS, and... get 51 AB. That's worth the -1 AB to get all those things.
There's also the RDD builds, which... yeah, they're good.
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Commie
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 16:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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19 wm fighter bard can also hit like 58+ ab
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Commie
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 16:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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That Guy wrote: He means 52 ab + buffs. 52 is just with the weapon. BTW Bob? I reaalllyyy hope you're being totally tongue in cheek about the best str build, because... sorry, this is not it, lol. well he's got epic will, epic spellcraft, and epic fortitude, those are three feats of exceptional value.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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That Guy
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 16:12 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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And... anyone can take them. If a 12/16/2 WM did, they have 50 AB, still not a bad tradeoff.
An RDD that takes those can have much higher saves.
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robbi320
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 16:53 PM |
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Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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An RDD has a comparatively low AB, at 'only' around 38, or so. And lose WM goodies. (yes, they gain more con and AC, so it comes down to defense vs offense)
Also, ImpExpertise, Evasion and 4 more damage, again, for 2 ab, personally, I'd rather have the AB. 2 AB is a 10% chance on two or three attacks, possibly more, per round. So the chance of dealing more damage through that than through 4 damage is pretty high, I think. ImpExpertise means you're fishing for 1s, in many cases, and even fully buffed, you have one attack with a 25% chance to hit, and all other attacks are ones... Evasion comes down to exactly the same 'tank or dps' thing as RDD. (which actually only clears up a gear slot and 2 ref save)
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That Guy
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 16:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Robbi, sometime when we can do it oocly, duel with Nimi. You might change your mind a little. She wouldn't duel ICly for no good reason, so... it would have to be totally ooc, not sure if that's even legal on Amia, tbh.
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Commie
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 19:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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robbi320 wrote: An RDD has a comparatively low AB, at 'only' around 38, or so. And lose WM goodies. (yes, they gain more con and AC, so it comes down to defense vs offense)
Also, ImpExpertise, Evasion and 4 more damage, again, for 2 ab, personally, I'd rather have the AB. 2 AB is a 10% chance on two or three attacks, possibly more, per round. So the chance of dealing more damage through that than through 4 damage is pretty high, I think. ImpExpertise means you're fishing for 1s, in many cases, and even fully buffed, you have one attack with a 25% chance to hit, and all other attacks are ones... Evasion comes down to exactly the same 'tank or dps' thing as RDD. (which actually only clears up a gear slot and 2 ref save) Yeah rdd property built is only like two ab behind the 19wm build as well as immunities and flight and breath and more hp and Sr and stuff.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 20:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Location: Eastern Washington
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I'm mostly just memeing but Fighter/WM can get as much as or more AB and damage than any non-caster build and much higher saves short of just running a wizard or cleric and wearing the +6 amulet. It is a very solid all arounder kind of build if anyone wants to play it.
If anyone feels salty... well it's just a meme that I wrote at 4 am lol.
Also to dispel the low ab rdd thing. RDD gets lots of AB. A well built RDD can get 50ish + ab. I'm just meming.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Sat, May 20 2017, 20:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Location: Eastern Washington
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The1Kobra wrote: Just so you're aware, the spellcraft bonus falls within the +20 cap on saving throws from gear and buffs. It means that you're getting only +10 of your projected +12, since you already have +10 unisaves on gear. Similarly, the reflex ring's -2 does not detract from this total, so you only get a +18 to reflex in total.
10/10/6 (Pre-Epic) 15/15/11 (Epic) 17/16/9 (Stats) 25/17/15 (Feats) 27/17/15 (With CON gear) 37/25/25 (Gear) 47/35/35 (Spellcraft) Also yeah I realized that after posting but was to lazy to edit it so I just was like "IS SOME OF THIS WRONG? YEAH BUT WHATEVER THIS BUILD IS SPICY BOI" and you can drink a cat's and owl's when you need more will/reflex I do it all the time on similar builds.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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That Guy
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 3:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Yeah, it's not bad. And, you're funny Bob.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 4:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere
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I rate the RDD build better because of raw stats, better use of dev, built in 32 SR, +5 AC, and favored will saves plus spellcraft as a class skill on more levels. You also end up with more HP than the WM and a better base Fort. You come up a few points shy in AB and raw damage, but sitting 60 AC without any buffs is pretty amazing, and haste/mage armor makes tha 65 - WMs get that while Imp Expertising, and you're doing it at full AB. Which means if they imp expertise, instead of trying to mirror it, you can turn on Power Attack instead and gain even more damage. If they're going to turn it into a 20's game, you should make it so your 20's hurt as much as possible.
but 10/19/1 WM is definitely a bonafide destructor. There is a better version available though. The spice is ghost pepper level, however - far too spicy for the average Amian.
With the changes to the evasion ring, I also think the rogue versino of WM takes a jump up, combined with the Evocation bonuses mages get.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 5:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Location: Eastern Washington
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Rogue can be great if your build already gets spellcraft like wizard or bard but tossing bard in and getting +10 universal is a huge boost and it's worth the -2 the ring adds if you're getting +8 on top of that since you have the feats for it anyway.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 5:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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If he is getting 2 more saves with spellcraft than he can even use, then replace Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft) with Discipline to become even awesomer.
EDIT: Fixed the post
_________________ Osiris Masud
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robbi320
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 12:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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Wait, I mean, just from str, RDD has the same AB gain as WM. So they would be equal AB, apart from BAB, correct? And BAB, WM has 25, RDD has 21. So 4 AB less. Or am I seeing something wrong?
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That Guy
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 13:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Wm has 26 Str, RDD can get 38, 34 if they take epic saves. There's the ab difference.
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 15:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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And 5 AC, immunities, a breath, flight, bonus con, actual class features beyond 'ki strike.'
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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robbi320
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 20:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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WM has 25 BAB, 4 from superior weapon focus, 3 from weapon focus and EWS, +5 weapon, 1 epic prowess, 14 from str. Is 52.
RDD has 21 BAB, 3 from the weapon focuses, 5 weapon, 1 prowess, and 18 from str. Is 38, just like I said. Of course, we could also go full str in epic weapon master, which is why I am basing off the 34 str. RDD has 4 AB less than WM. I mean, I can take four great strength on WM as well, so I can go to 54. And 50 on RDD.
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Nalkanar
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 21:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Jan 2015 Location: Central Europe
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No devast?
_________________ Zendaer Amattis Torgon Crimsonshade Khalid Athanalo CET time zone
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That Guy
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 21:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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robbi320 wrote: WM has 25 BAB, 4 from superior weapon focus, 3 from weapon focus and EWS, +5 weapon, 1 epic prowess, 14 from str. Is 52.
RDD has 21 BAB, 3 from the weapon focuses, 5 weapon, 1 prowess, and 18 from str. Is 38, just like I said. Of course, we could also go full str in epic weapon master, which is why I am basing off the 34 str. RDD has 4 AB less than WM. I mean, I can take four great strength on WM as well, so I can go to 54. And 50 on RDD. Check your math there Robbi. That's 48, not 38. And, no, the WM can't get STR higher than that.... really, not without giving up major things. Here's the breakdwn: WM 52 (with 38 maxed out STR)AB, but no EWS 54 AC 450 or so hp RDD 48-50 (with 46-50 maxed str) AB, with EWS 59 AC 600+ hp Damage is different too.... that WM has 14+8 (longsword?)+10 for trueforged +8 for flame scroll +5 for weapon... sure there's other stuff you can add but for this argument, they can both do all that stuff so it's pretty moot. Total max is 45 x 3 on a crit is 135. RDD is 20+6+8+10+8+5=57 x2 crits =114. Sure... the WM -can- do more damage, but really, most hits at this point won't be crits, so the RDD will do better for damage. That said, my money is on the RDD in this instance.
Last edited by That Guy on Sun, May 21 2017, 21:44 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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robbi320
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 21:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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Dev, quite honstly, doesn't do mucj for you. It's basically waiting for a crit on a crit, them rolling a one on the save. You need 37 fort to be viable, so everyone has that. Itonically, the powerfulness of dev kind of makes dev weak. And the fact that so many other spells work off fort, so there is close to no point of going dev in many cases. Not that it really is a bad feat, but the one or two AB you get from that, or the saves, or whatever is, IMO, the better choice.
Also, yes. 48 AB, that was a derp on my brains fault, lol.
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That Guy
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 21:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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yeah, so 52 AB versus 59 AC (with potential for 69)
or 48 AB versus 54 AC with potential for 59.
It's pretty simple, the RDD will win most times, unless the wm gets REALLY lucky with 20's.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 22:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere
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Dev on RDd is solid because you can push 46-48 sTr and have DC 10+15 +18/19 = DC 43/44 Dev, vs the standard Dc 39 WM dev. That's a really big difference - people are used to gearing for 38 fort, and that means you tag those people a good 25 to 30% of the time on a crit, and you still have WM level AB.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 23:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Location: Eastern Washington
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Nalkanar wrote: No devast? Dev crit is a waste of a feat if you just get a weapon with an onhit. If you're going to 1-fish you might as well not spend 4 feats on it. If you go with a build like RDD/BG then it's a different story I suppose, but even that is questionable.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, May 21 2017, 23:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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yeah. 10/2/18 is the s+ tier build for a reason. it has no downside as a build other then forcing an alignment.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Tue, May 23 2017, 10:41 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Location: Eastern Washington
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It's pretty good, I just personally prefer the crit power of the WM my self since survivability generally isn't a huge issue on a good WM build.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Ulir
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Posted: Wed, May 31 2017, 20:21 PM |
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Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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RDD/Bard/BG and you get +2 dev crit dc.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Thu, Jun 01 2017, 17:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Location: Eastern Washington
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Actually you can pull a DC 47 with that build if you do it correctly.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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That Guy
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Posted: Thu, Jun 01 2017, 17:55 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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MisterLich
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Posted: Thu, Jun 01 2017, 18:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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As long as you don't also have garbage AC, then you will eventually get a crit in that fight of attrition, if we're talking pvp = and that crit will be a fight ending maneuver, potentially.
If we're talking pve, you should be able to reliably hit things at 30.
_________________ Osiris Masud
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That Guy
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Posted: Thu, Jun 01 2017, 18:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Yeah, I was just messing with Bob
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