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All Things Monster
https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=70359		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  IronAngel [ Sun, Feb 24 2013, 13:41 PM ]
Post subject:  All Things Monster
I'm starting a general question topic on the monsters of the Realms. I have a few questions that don't fit anywhere else. Feel free to post your own monster-related questions if they're not complex enough to warrant a separate topic.

Monsters are a subject I know very little about. I've never really DMed a PnP game so I haven't had to plan my own encounters from scratch or browse a Monster Manual. As a Realmslore geek, I've mostly sticked with FR products that describe the history, culture and peoples of the setting, whereas monsters tend to be introduced in generic core D&D products. What products are there to look into, apart from the Monster Manuals and Monsters of Faerûn?

1. What knowledge-related, curious, wise etc. monsters can you think of? Neutral and good aligned, in particular. I'm planning an Oghmanyte summon skin, obviously. Sphinxs come to mind. Certain dragon types, as well. What else?

2. What monsters can detect invisible creatures or have an otherwise supernatural eyesight? BioWare dragons have True Seeing, but is that in their eyes lore-wise? What other creatures of any alignment have such eyes?
Author:  slkNihilus [ Sun, Feb 24 2013, 13:49 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
To answer your second question, dragons in PnP have the following characteristics: Blindsense - "Dragons can pinpoint creatures within a distance of 60 feet. Opponents the dragon can’t actually see still have total concealment against the dragon" and Keen Senses - "A dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet".

Blindsense isn't "supernatural eyesight" though. In fact, it's a combination of other senses (smell and hearing mostly) used to pinpoint creatures the dragon can't see. Hence the name. I can't think of other creatures with Keen Senses off the top of my head, but I think there are some in the later "editions" of Monster Manual (2-5).
Author:  Liz [ Sun, Feb 24 2013, 21:15 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
It's a shame there's not (to my knowledge) a good skin in the game to represent a couatl, as that sounds like exactly what you're looking for on both counts.

Maybe a djinn, or a guardian naga? All three are good-aligned, described as relatively brainy in the MM, and have various sorts of magical detection abilities.
Author:  IronAngel [ Sun, Feb 24 2013, 21:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
The two questions are unrelated, by the way. Joon is not going to gouge out the eye of his EMD, and that's exactly what the latter question is about. 8)

But thanks, I'll look into those three. If you think they fit both bills, they'll probably fit at least the other.
Author:  Yossarin [ Sun, Feb 24 2013, 21:37 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
Is this something that would be engaging in combat?
Author:  IronAngel [ Sun, Feb 24 2013, 21:41 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
Question 1 about a knowledge-related thing is, yes. An EMD reskin. Sphinx seems so very fitting and I could exchange riddles with it, but the models are rather ugly.

There's no need for an NWN skin for the latter question, I just need the eye.
Author:  slkNihilus [ Sun, Feb 24 2013, 21:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
If you're entirely unconcerned with the type of creature and just want it to have supernatural eyesight... a good number of outsiders have True Sight. Devils, demons and so on. That's pretty much a PnP equivalent to Bioware's TS.
Author:  IronAngel [ Tue, Feb 26 2013, 15:30 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
slkNihilus wrote:
a good number of outsiders have True Sight. Devils, demons and so on.


Got any example in mind? I checked the 3.5 Monster Manual I for Pit Fiend and Monsters of Faerûn for I think Abishai and some other fiend, and none of them mentioned that. I think the MoF entries did mention the ability to see through invisibility, though.

In fact, I haven't even encountered the term True Sight in the literature and I'm not sure where to check. Monster entries are boring so I didn't want to read through the entire book. Googling it doesn't help much, the results seem to refer mostly to the spell as used by PCs.
Author:  Liz [ Tue, Feb 26 2013, 16:26 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
Erinyes (devil), balor, glabrezu, nalfeshnee (demons). "True Seeing" is in their stat block, under Special Qualities.
Author:  CouncilofAutumn [ Tue, Feb 26 2013, 17:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
IronAngel wrote:
1. What knowledge-related, curious, wise etc. monsters can you think of? Neutral and good aligned, in particular. I'm planning an Oghmanyte summon skin, obviously. Sphinxs come to mind. Certain dragon types, as well. What else?


Androsphinx
Couatl
Deva, Monadic (Fiend Folio, Page 56)

The Book of Exalted Deeds is also a very good source for wise, knowledgeable creatures, for instance:

Archon, Owl
Guardinal, Ursinal (My personal favorite - it's described as a wise scholar)

IronAngel wrote:
2. What monsters can detect invisible creatures or have an otherwise supernatural eyesight? BioWare dragons have True Seeing, but is that in their eyes lore-wise? What other creatures of any alignment have such eyes?


Angel, Planetar
Angel, Solar
Nethersight Mastiff (Monster Manual II, pages 160-161)
Runehound (Monster Manual III, although these are always neutral evil)
Demon, Marilith (Just to add to Lizzie's list)
Author:  IronAngel [ Tue, Feb 26 2013, 17:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
Awesome, thank you. One of these is bound to work.
Author:  Yossarin [ Tue, Feb 26 2013, 18:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
I like the Owl Archon idea. Especially if it is more eyes than feathers. Huge gigantic swallow you whole eyes.
Author:  CouncilofAutumn [ Tue, Feb 26 2013, 18:41 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
Yossarin wrote:
I like the Owl Archon idea. Especially if it is more eyes than feathers. Huge gigantic swallow you whole eyes.


Owl Archon wrote:
Eye Rays (Su): Six times per day, an owl archon can shoot twin beams of silvery light from its eyes, striking an opponent within 120 feet. The owl archon must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit, and any creature struck by the eye rays must make a DC 20 Fortitude save or be turned to stone. This ability's save DC is Constitution-based.
Author:  MoshingChris [ Wed, Feb 27 2013, 8:12 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
Ursinals were the first thing to cross my mind, but that's because I have Guardinals on my mind.
Author:  Liz [ Wed, Feb 27 2013, 8:23 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
MoshingChris wrote:
... Guardinals on my mind.

Good song. I love Ray Charles. [/spam]
Author:  IronAngel [ Wed, Feb 27 2013, 9:32 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
Too bad there's no giant owl models in the hak. I'm at work so can't check, but I think there's a werebear though. I imagine that's the closest you can get to Ursinal, unless there's a bear-like Rakshasa model. I do think I've seen something like that somewhere.
Author:  Liz [ Wed, Feb 27 2013, 9:42 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
Doesn't the good-aligned summon 7 look like an anthropomorphic bear in shiny armor?
Author:  slkNihilus [ Wed, Feb 27 2013, 9:43 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
Was about to say, yeah. The Celestial Avenger is the closest model to an ursinal that I've seen in the module. Despite the fact that it wears armour and ursinals don't. So might want to look into that werebear, Iron.
Author:  Sunkin Sheep [ Sat, Mar 02 2013, 0:13 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
Does anyone have any mechanics on what makes a creature: "monstrous"? I feel like it's a very narrow phenotype.
Author:  slkNihilus [ Sat, Mar 02 2013, 0:25 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
That question is a little bit confusing. How about some examples of "monstrous" creatures?

The only thing to fit the bill, that I can think of right away, is the type of creature Monstrous Humanoid. Is this what you were looking for?
Author:  CouncilofAutumn [ Sat, Mar 02 2013, 1:06 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
A "Monstrous" creature is a creature with the "Monstrous Humanoid" type. Bugbears, Orcs, Hobgoblins, et cetera.
Author:  Liz [ Sat, Mar 02 2013, 1:09 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
That's the OOC definition, sure. But given that the thread is in the Lore forum, I'm thinking the original post was more referring to an IC definition, which is a lot more nebulous. Like, for example, pretty much everything with the Aberration creature type would probably be considered "monstrous" by your average adventurer walking down the street. Many Shapeshifters, Undead, and Outsiders, as well. I think there's probably no solid definition of what a character would consider to be a "monster."
Author:  CouncilofAutumn [ Sat, Mar 02 2013, 1:16 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
I saw the word "Mechanics" and got all excited. Yeah, if that's the case, then we'd need to know specifics and context.
Author:  LetumLux [ Sat, Mar 02 2013, 1:18 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
    Monstrous humanoids are similar to humanoids, but with monstrous or animalistic features. They often have magical abilities as well.

    Features

    A monstrous humanoid has the following features.

    • 8-sided Hit Dice.
    • Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
    • Good Reflex and Will saves.
    • Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

    Traits

    A monstrous humanoid possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

    • Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    • Proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
    • Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Monstrous humanoids not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Monstrous humanoids are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
    • Monstrous humanoids eat, sleep, and breathe.


Is that what you were looking for?
Author:  Halecta [ Sat, Mar 02 2013, 21:52 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
A monstrous humanoid has deformed or animalistic appearance, Bigfoot would be a Monstrous humanoid
Author:  Sunkin Sheep [ Sun, Mar 03 2013, 20:52 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
LetumLux wrote:
    Monstrous humanoids are similar to humanoids, but with monstrous or animalistic features. They often have magical abilities as well.

    Features

    A monstrous humanoid has the following features.

    • 8-sided Hit Dice.
    • Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
    • Good Reflex and Will saves.
    • Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

    Traits

    A monstrous humanoid possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

    • Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    • Proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
    • Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Monstrous humanoids not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Monstrous humanoids are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
    • Monstrous humanoids eat, sleep, and breathe.


Is that what you were looking for?


Yes.
Author:  Technopath [ Fri, Mar 08 2013, 18:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
What basic info should one have on Constructs as a whole? I OOC know that elemental souls are bound to the golem.. however would my Sorcerer know this as well?
Author:  slkNihilus [ Fri, Mar 08 2013, 18:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
Well, that's up to you more than anyone. Has your character looked into constructs, how they function, how they're built, etc? Basic-basic info should not encompass how they're created, I believe, as that's (at least in theory) the more advanced knowledge regarding them. Of course, that's only my own perspective on it.
Author:  IronAngel [ Fri, Mar 08 2013, 18:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
However, Amia has several libraries well stocked in arcane lore. Whether you have the skill points to show for it, it's not hard to walk into one IC and read up. I bet there's even an IC forum post about it, somewhere. It's the kind of knowledge you'd probably need Spellcraft or Lore to learn "behind the scenes" but even a 10-Int Fighter can investigate through RP. It's very easy on Amia.
Author:  LetumLux [ Fri, Mar 08 2013, 23:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: All Things Monster
IronAngel wrote:
However, Amia has several libraries well stocked in arcane lore. Whether you have the skill points to show for it, it's not hard to walk into one IC and read up. I bet there's even an IC forum post about it, somewhere. It's the kind of knowledge you'd probably need Spellcraft or Lore to learn "behind the scenes" but even a 10-Int Fighter can investigate through RP. It's very easy on Amia.


I wish there was something of a guide for each library to give us an idea of what kind of topics or information might be found there. Like, just as an example:

    [Demiplane of Knowledge] - General history (local, abroad); General information on the Planes; Fey; Living, non-secret languages; Music (theory, instruments, history); Religion (All); Bardic Epics; Mythologies; Culinary recipes for edible books

    [Tarkuul Library] - Magical history; Oceanic fauna and flora; Weather; Necromancy; Undead and Undeath; Palemastery; Religion (Neutral and Evil); Gardening; Ancient civilizations

    [Cordor Library] - Local law; Local history; Sensationalist publications; Seagulls; Mystrans being terrible people

    [Zanshibon] - The Planes (Abyssal); Religion (Evil only) Demonology; Poison; Dark Rituals

    [Shrine of Bahamut] - The Planes (Good-aligned only); Religion (Good only); Dragons; Dragon Disciple Rituals; Medicine

    [Seven Stars] - Arcane spells 0-4; Gods of Magic; Artifice; Mythals; Mustache grooming and care; Bookbinding; Living, non-secret languages

... Etcetera. That way people would have a better idea of what is readily available where, and if something isn't listed, it could be assumed it isn't just up for grabs and then they can ring a DM about it and ask, for instance, "Is there anything on the Deep Imaskari in the Zhum library?"

That way the extent of information gathered could be moderated to a point, instead of people just going around reading books that are too omniscient to be IG for character perusal, such as the IG book that talks about Time of Troubles wherein it states things characters should have no business knowing, or things that are so secret even other gods don't know about them. Independent research would benefit from a bit of moderation; if you want to know if you can find out [insert lore here] then you can PM it to a DM and they can tell you what parts of it you find out, or if you find anything at all, or provide misinformation, and so forth.

Otherwise, the only things than should be safely assumed as being available, I think, are things that are clearly stated as being common knowledge, or are actually posted up for consumption.
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