I know the NPC "teaches" the abilities to the Blackguard but what exactly are they taught? Is it more of a just to rp ooc'ly getting the abilities or does the character actually recieve some training in divine casting? If so what are the different things taught for each ability or how does the abilities "work"?

_________________
Calypso (Lady Calypso, Caly)
Stormy Dawn (Ar'ellin'ah)
Kisuri'ou Yoru (Ryuko)

Favored Quote:
"This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man." -Shakespeare

Maybe, since he's been dealing with fiends for some time, he can teach you how to get a better hand and earn more powers from your patrons.

That really is fluff up to you. I reckon the standard explanation is that you learn some new rituals, but they might not apply equally to all patrons.

_________________

_________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Login: Narkudauman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ╬ Join the Magisterium Mortis ╬

In a nutshell: Kobra kindly explained to me Blackguard abilities are spells when I wanted to cheat in the Cordor west arena event.

Hope that helps!

_________________
Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

If they are spells shouldn't they be subject to spellcraft checks for identification? ooc vfx aside it doesn't show up in the log. (i'm assuming this is both mechnical since we're talking widgets? and intentional to help blackguards blend in?)

I suppose, but they're not counterspellable anyway. So who cares, really.

_________________

The RP ramifications are still there - exposes the pc's blackguardness (if they had wished to hide it).

Iron is right though. They're 'cast' by using widgets so you can't identify or counter them. Most or even all of them are buffs.
Also, their vfx are mostly flashy and angry red, its not hard to deduct the spell was a wicked one by seeing the widgets being used so they defenitely weren't made so BG's can blend in.
The widgets were made because a Blackguard has no spell book so spells simply can't be added to them (I think.)

The summons and damage spells are the spells the blackguard actually has in 'vanilla' so they can be identified and countered.

_________________
Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

I wasn't being snarky. If you wish to assume technical details not represented in game, you're free to do so but the practical consequences are negligible. In interaction with other players, what you see is what you get: claiming to identify them as a Blackguard because you see them casting Bull's Strength or Darkness in some particularly nasty way is probably metagaming. If you don't get a Spellcraft check, we should hardly make an OOC rule that everyone must pretend there is one.

Then again, Spellcraft check doesn't always matter. If you're casting Demon Flesh, "the caster grows the thick, leather flesh of a demon." That is pretty obvious with or without spellcraft, and you can trust your fellow prayers to RP it accordingly.

_________________

Now where did i say that?
These spells have no descriptor in which to corelate them to evil powers.


Using VFX to identify sounds more like metagaming unless stated otherwise by dm's. which is i why i was looking for a dm answer...
I've seen quite a few blackguards just use the widgets without any rp and all the log showed up was "Item's special power".

It would be funny however if the VFX was the identifier: "YOUR SPELL IS RED I SMITE THEE VILLAIN".

Not sure what you're after, then. If you're saying they should get a spellcraft check scripted to them, you could make a topic in Improving Amia I guess? A DM may give his/her opinion here, but I doubt it's something they want to codify into an authoritative rule. Lorewise, yes you can argue there ought to be a spellcraft check, but there just isn't. If you roll Spellcraft and ask a Blackguard to tell you what they just cast, in a Tell, I am sure they'll comply. They are, in any case, divine spells.

_________________

This is what I was mainly after is how are the abilities rp'd. This is pretty much what I get it as. Correct me if I'm wrong.

These three are not widgets so I would see them as actual spells or prayers that have to follow V,S or M rule for that particular spell if needed, like the use of a holy symbol for example. The magic circle against good seemingly would really be the only spell that would be recognized as "evil" when cast I'd suspect just from the feeling it would promote to those that are good that happen to be standing around it or lol in it when it's cast.

Spells or Prayers:

Eagle's Splendor
Starting at 4rd level, a Blackguard gains the ability to cast Eagle's Splendor.

Magic Circle against Good
Starting at 7th level, a Blackguard gains the ability to cast Magic Circle against Good.

Divine Favor
Starting at 10th level, a Blackguard gains the ability to cast Divine Favor.


These below I see more as "granted abilities" or "Special Abilities" as it would be listed in a monstrous compendium more than some kind of spell or prayer. Something through the vileness and blackheartedness of a blackguard can simply be "willed" or focused into existence an ability granted by the Fiend that granted the powers.

Granted/Special Abilities:

Corrupt Weapon
1 Blackguard level, 11 Wisdom
The caster corrupts a melee weapon to strike true against good opponents, granting a +1 enhancement bonus and 2d6 negative energy damage vs. good for Turns/Level.
I would think this one since it turns the blade glowing red would be IC'ly noticable.

Demon Flesh
1 Blackguard level, 11 Wisdom
The caster grows the thick, leather flesh of a demon, granting a +1 natural armor bonus to Armor Class for every four caster levels (at least +1, maximum +4) for Turns/Level.
This being noticed IC'ly I'd say depends on what is being worn and if any flesh is readily viewable.

Aura of Despair
3 Blackguard levels, n/a Wisdom
The blackguard radiates a malign aura that causes enemies within 10 feet to take a -2 penalty on all saving throws.
Easily this aura when activated I would think would be noticed by anyone around them.

Veil of Shadow
3 Blackguard levels, 12 Wisdom
Swirling wisps of darkness obscure the caster's form, granting a 20% concealment bonus for Turns/Level.
No apparently evil effect that I can see. Questionable yes but not really evil.

Darkness
5 Blackguard levels, 12 Wisdom
As per the default spell.

Deeper Darkness
6 Blackguard levels, 13 Wisdom
As per Darkness, but with a duration of Turns/Blackguard level.
Several classes have the Darkness ability so there really is no way IC'ly to tell the person using this ability is a Blackguard.

Abyssal Might
7 Blackguard levels, 14 Wisdom
The caster summons evil energy from the Abyss and is imbued with its might. The caster gains a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity for Turns/Level.
This seems more like one that might get confused since there is a visual effect to it but technically it's nothing that can be seen IC'ly...as far as I know.

Unholy Sword
8 Blackguard levels, 14 Wisdom
This spell transforms the caster's melee weapon into a powerful Unholy Avenger, a specially blessed weapon that, when wielded by a Blackguard, acts as a +5 unholy weapon that dispels on hit for Rounds/Level.
Much like the corrupt weapon it's pretty obvious the blade is corrupted.

Yeah a I'd like a dm opinion on this as well, thanks for all the info on this thus far too.

_________________
Calypso (Lady Calypso, Caly)
Stormy Dawn (Ar'ellin'ah)
Kisuri'ou Yoru (Ryuko)

Favored Quote:
"This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man." -Shakespeare

It's really up to you, though. We should not dictate how people must interpret the mechanical effects IC. At the very most, we can say that there are supposed to be somatic or vocal components to the spells, but even that is questionable since they can't be metamagiced. What exactly the flavor of their manifestation is, however, is the kind of creative writing players should do themselves. Even something like "Demon Flesh" should be considered an example, and can take different forms for different Blackguards. A BG worshiping Velsharoon or a beholder, or dealing with devils, would probably not grow demon flesh but rather some more fitting, grotesque cover.

Magic Circle against Good doesn't have any effect on good people in it, unless they're summoned creatures. Neither does Aura of Despair have any effect on non-hostile people. The general rule is that people can feel the effects of auras (though that does not imply automatic identification). The wording clearly requires there to be a mechanical effect to be felt. You cannot metagame the aura of a non-hostile Blackguard since it has no effect on you, as far as the letter of the law goes (whatever the intention behind them).

_________________

The VFX is there for a reason. if you see a ray of bright red light decending on someone I hardly would see it as metagaming if you question the user/ caster for wickedness. I think the VFX is quite clear and yes, I agree demon/devil flesh would be quite visible which is my BG never used it so far so I don't know the VFX for it.

And because most of the VFX are clear (those I used are) I don't think a BG has to emote it everytime he uses a widget. It'd be great if one did but it shouldn't be manditory.

_________________
Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

There is a VFX when you cast it. I think its the same as the harm spell. A shaft of angry red light decends from the sky and envellops the BG.
I think everyone can see that light myself but once cast it's no longer easily detectable. So if you cast it away from the party and then rejoin I don't think anyone would notice.
If you cast it in the middle of the party... then they'd likely realise something is going on.

_________________
Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

A fun trick with evil PCs is to purposefully refrain from using any of your particularly telling abilities. If the party goes down (possibly from you not operating at full standard), break out your fancy goodies and lay the smackdown. Then raise your party and ICly they'll be none the wiser, but possibly cursing you OOCly (assuming fair play). Well. If the PC is really evil they can just loot the bodies and walk off, but y'know.

_________________
@Thanatopsis#6293

Yeah I pretty much do this if possible around good aligned characters or at least if they appear to be good.

_________________
Calypso (Lady Calypso, Caly)
Stormy Dawn (Ar'ellin'ah)
Kisuri'ou Yoru (Ryuko)

Favored Quote:
"This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man." -Shakespeare

Red is evil now? Dang, better tell Ilmater, Sune, Lathander, some Helmites, the Red Knight, Tempus....

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Its the same VFX as a harm spell so yes, I could understand that (previously described as angry red) being asociated with evil.

That has nothing to do with the colour red.

_________________
Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

If your character knows how some spells look like. It's fine to recognize them.
A lot of time different spells have the same VFX, so it shouldn't be used as 100% proof. But if the character always see evil character cast 'red beam' and suddenly someone cast 'red beam' it can be proof enough for the character. Of course opinions can differ,barbarian and wizard can think of the VFX differently.

And of course, you can use such hasty conclusions to troll people. Make a paladin with the green skull portrait, and request some holy spell of sanctification or self-sacrifice with a red glow and the Wail of the Banshee VFX, and then sue people for libel when they tell their friends.

_________________