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| Reverie and the Drow https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=80935 |
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| Author: | DireCorbie [ Sun, Feb 22 2015, 2:16 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Reverie and the Drow |
I recall reading a while back (forget where) that drow can reverie, but Eilistraeean drow refrain from the practice (or they can't do it, I forget). Is this true? Can drow reverie? Is it naturally disturbing for them to do so? And do Eilistraeean drow choose not to reverie, or can they at all? Or is it the other way around, with evil drow being unable to reverie and goodly drow being able? I will be grateful for the clarification! |
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| Author: | Gers [ Sun, Feb 22 2015, 3:31 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
Well, from what I've read, most Eilistraeen can reverie, but choose not to. When an elf reveries, they replay memories and experiences from their past. For an Eili who turned from Llothism or Vhaerunism, I'd think that could be a horribly traumatic experience, forcing them to return to a time when they commit acts they now consider debased and shameful. The opposite is true for underdark drow. While they have no problems reliving their dark deeds over and over, many of them find it impossible to reverie, either not being able to enter the state or not finding it restful, and instead require dreamless sleep to recuperate. Keep in mind though that I have not seen this in actual sourcebooks, but Forgotten Realms novels, specifically Daughter of the Drow and others by Elaine Cunningham. On the other hand i have not seen it countermanded by other books, and it makes some nice flavor for RP. To me, the idea behind it is that Underdark drow have so diverged from elven nature that they are losing touch with whatever gives elves the ability to enter reverie, and so gradually the ability disappears from them. |
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| Author: | Arekkusu [ Mon, Feb 23 2015, 0:24 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
I have not read anything officially saying all drow are unable to reverie, only this small part from the forgotten realms wiki, "Like all elves, drow required no sleep but instead entered a meditative trance throughout which they retained full awareness of their surroundings. This state was half-again more efficient than the way in which most races gained rest. However, many drow appeared to actually sleep because they could not find the peace in themselves to enter this reverie." In the server many drow characters speak normally of their meditation/reverie, so I supposed it's up to your character's resolve whether they can do it or not. |
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| Author: | Xenos [ Mon, Feb 23 2015, 2:27 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
I can't remember where i read it, but it suggested Drow don't Reverie, and likely Evil Elves for that matter, because of the anxiety and danger in their lives. In effect when a Drow tries such, they would relive, vividly, tortures, torments, abuse, anxiety, fear. There would be no restful state to be found, they would be stuck watching 4 hours of murder porn. Though Elves are not free of this issue either as i understand it, an elf that has experienced a great trauma, like say.. drow wiped out their camp and 1 person survived hidden under the body of a dead mother? Yeah, that elf won't be getting much mileage out of Reverie for awhile. Elves that experience war and loss have issues with this. I once read of something called a Dream Eater, an Elf within the community that could take such negativity upon themselves, and free others to find rest in Reverie. Though the Dream Eater can't Reverie because of it. That might have been in Elves of Faerun, but i'm not sure where it came from before that. Edit: Eilistraeen Drow born on the surface that never had to go through the torment of Lolth society likely don't have issues with Reverie, if they were trained to do so. But really, i dont think its a natural thing, you learn to do it, so.. if Drow don't practice it because it sucks for them, why would the knowledge of it have passed down over the years, for an Eilistraeen to teach their surface born child? Would it even occur to them that the should learn it? I mean.. (Rough example) Monks spend hours meditating every day, and i'm sure its great for them, but it never occurred to me that i should learn the same practices. Sort of a cultural thing maybe? |
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| Author: | DireCorbie [ Mon, Feb 23 2015, 3:35 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
Alright, so from what I gather, it's not impossible, but it might be unlikely for either type of drow (and a few elves, even) given their dark histories. It makes sense to me. Thanks for the responses! |
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| Author: | MazeOfThorns [ Mon, Feb 23 2015, 18:54 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
Xenos wrote: I can't remember where i read it, but it suggested Drow don't Reverie, and likely Evil Elves for that matter, because of the anxiety and danger in their lives. In effect when a Drow tries such, they would relive, vividly, tortures, torments, abuse, anxiety, fear. There would be no restful state to be found, they would be stuck watching 4 hours of murder porn. And there are those drow that reverie specifically for this reason. Which is how I treat it for the drow I play. He does it on purpose to desensitize himself to his dangerous life. And to keep his paranoia fueled. Ah, the joys of insanity! |
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| Author: | KairaKitty [ Mon, Feb 23 2015, 20:15 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
Similar to what Maze said, I was always under the impression Lolthite drow preferred reverie. Firstly, to most of them a "dark" past is pretty typical so for the most part I don't see why a (Lolth) drow would have any issue reliving their past. Secondly (and I think most importantly) reverie would allow a drow to be aware of their surroundings even while resting. Why risk a human sleep where you could be assassinated when you could just reverie? Sourcewise: There doesn't appear to be a positive answer as Jud said. It seems there are no source books which say so one way or the other. Basically just up to the players if their drow(s) reverie or not and the personal reasons for that. |
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| Author: | slkNihilus [ Mon, Feb 23 2015, 22:21 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
That's pretty much the "official answer", as far as I know: drow can reverie, some of them just choose not to. |
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| Author: | Estara [ Mon, Feb 23 2015, 22:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
My drow reveried and loved it. She was also insane. |
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| Author: | Xenos [ Wed, Feb 25 2015, 12:29 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
Well, sure they can reverie, but would that count as rest? If all you have is anxiety and nightmares, do you reach a state of restfulness? The argument is sound though, i mean the sociopath does not subscribe to societies normal understanding of things and would be no more swayed by one dream as another. But that gets us into the deeper drow lore i guess. I think it was only recently that a line was drawn that said some drow are good by default, while others are evil and corrupt in nature via their blood (some fiend thing). When drow are born i recall reading that they are reared under special care, now, this might be nobles or what not only, but it suggested they are basically taken away to be raised in bulk and brainwashed to conform to the Lolth enslaved societies ideals. From this i gathered that Drow are not born evil, the are made evil. Some of them this comes easily, and to others its harder. So. Reverie, reliving memories, not a questionable dream state where we fill in the blanks as we wake and think upon it, but real memories, replaying real events like watching a movie. So, sure, some of you have insane or sociopathic drow, or are just so far numb they convince themselves they take pleasure in it. But does reverie take you where you want to go? Will you go to watch that wicked deed over and over again, or will you be taken back to a time before your faith was solid, to memories you might have repressed? But i dunno, i have no means to give sources for my info as i've skimmed and read over so so many different books and material. It is obviously safe to say you can do whatever you want with your own char. It matters about as much as an argument on the lore of elven/drow poops, or lack of! Dun dun dun. |
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| Author: | The Great Equalizer [ Mon, Mar 02 2015, 2:04 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
If your talking about Drow and Reverie there are a number of things you need to account for, foremost the mindset of Drow and the structure of Drow society. First is that while they are surrounded by death and terrors they also surround themselves with sin and luxury. And if anything drives Drow more than Fear or Anger, or any base Emotion they are driven by greed and ambition. And while Drow view their own kind above all others rather openly, most also secretly view themselves as greater than their kin. This naturally leads them to be more likely to see their Reverie as a Time to reflect on past successes and failures and use it to drive their own ambition further. Further you have from a young age a rather structured and guided upbringing, perfect times to shape your people. It is also (given descriptions of Drow upbringing from across the various novels) well within the realm of possibility that they purposefully use that time to create vivid points in their memories, ones that they will be drawn to in Reverie in order to cause even deeper forms of brainwashing. There are lots of great ways that you can RP it and use it in RP especially just beyond them doing it or not. |
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| Author: | Mercedes [ Mon, Mar 02 2015, 18:24 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
Equal put it how I understand it. I've been using it as a good time to sit down and SEETHE AND BOIL ON INCOHERENT RAGE. Perpetual anger reinforced through reliving past events she won't let go of. Perfectly healthy and I don't think anything bad will come of it. |
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| Author: | Xenos [ Tue, Mar 03 2015, 3:13 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
Mercedes wrote: Equal put it how I understand it. I've been using it as a good time to sit down and SEETHE AND BOIL ON INCOHERENT RAGE. Perpetual anger reinforced through reliving past events she won't let go of. Perfectly healthy and I don't think anything bad will come of it. But how does doing that for 4 or more hours leave one feeling rested and refreshed? |
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| Author: | The Great Equalizer [ Tue, Mar 03 2015, 4:15 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
The body is at rest, the act of Reverie involves relaxing all of their muscles and is physically very restful. I like some of the really old elf fluff since a few times they talk about how elves use their meditative trance as a way to review and keep organized hundreds of years of memories and keep from losing track of their of history and memories. (hardly a cannon source but an interesting view). |
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| Author: | Xenos [ Tue, Mar 03 2015, 4:39 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
So unlike normal sleep where you would wake up unrested after tossing and turning all night do to night terrors or anxieties, you suggest that no matter what one experiences in Reverie, they are cool and relaxed? 4-8 hours of reliving being flayed by a demon in perfect detail, or worried you wont get up on time for your first day of work tomorrow, but you are free as bird? Eh, without more detail on how it works or does not work i guess we are just a bunch of nerds arguing in circles. |
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| Author: | Mercedes [ Wed, Mar 04 2015, 0:50 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
Perhaps it's about as restful as a sleep with nightmares or discomforts. It's better than no sleep at all. |
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| Author: | joe15552 [ Mon, Apr 20 2015, 21:42 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
Reverie, put simply, is restful meditation that is more efficient at restoring energy through rest than normal sleep is. In real life, there are plenty of people that accomplish a restful mindset that is not sleep (you have to be unconscious to be asleep) that works better (meaning one achieves a more restful state of mind for a longer period of time and gains more rest from it) than sleep. Having said that, Reverie would be seen by Drow as a more efficient way to rest than just plain ole sleep. Even if a Drow cannot reverie, they may claim that they can, in order to say something like, "Oh, I'm so in control of my mind, I can Reverie. Thus I am qualified to be a part of the master race (Drow)." As far as the whole dealing with nightmares thing goes: part of all meditation techniques, no matter what discipline, is to associate experiences with some sort of "positive" feeling. The word "Positive" is almost completely subjective, depending on the mindset, and culture, of those seeking positivity. In Drow culture, thinking about "nightmarish" things may be completely positive. Also, there is also the possibility that unsettling experiences can be associated with "positive" feelings through meditation. In short, Reverie can, and probably should, be a claimed habit by all noble Drow. A noble Drow that "sleeps," while they are not a heretic, are considered to be taking part in a "lower level" of rest than Reverie, and thus less desirable than a Drow that Reveries regularly. Remember: Elitism is the norm among Drow nobles. Enjoy. |
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| Author: | GolbezLunar [ Mon, May 11 2015, 15:19 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
joe15552 wrote: Reverie, put simply, is restful meditation that is more efficient at restoring energy through rest than normal sleep is. In real life, there are plenty of people that accomplish a restful mindset that is not sleep (you have to be unconscious to be asleep) that works better (meaning one achieves a more restful state of mind for a longer period of time and gains more rest from it) than sleep. Having said that, Reverie would be seen by Drow as a more efficient way to rest than just plain ole sleep. Even if a Drow cannot reverie, they may claim that they can, in order to say something like, "Oh, I'm so in control of my mind, I can Reverie. Thus I am qualified to be a part of the master race (Drow)." As far as the whole dealing with nightmares thing goes: part of all meditation techniques, no matter what discipline, is to associate experiences with some sort of "positive" feeling. The word "Positive" is almost completely subjective, depending on the mindset, and culture, of those seeking positivity. In Drow culture, thinking about "nightmarish" things may be completely positive. Also, there is also the possibility that unsettling experiences can be associated with "positive" feelings through meditation. In short, Reverie can, and probably should, be a claimed habit by all noble Drow. A noble Drow that "sleeps," while they are not a heretic, are considered to be taking part in a "lower level" of rest than Reverie, and thus less desirable than a Drow that Reveries regularly. Remember: Elitism is the norm among Drow nobles. Enjoy. I'm not sure I agree with any of that. I'm of the mind with what Jud wrote up above. Also Reverie is one of those elven gifts. Not any one can just do it. It's part of being connected to the Weave so intrinsically. I suppose drow can be taught to do it. Though I doubt it's part of any training. Quote: We Elves have certain abilities that the other ‘lesser’ races simply do not possess. N’Tel’Quessir often have to resort to magic to do the things that come to us Elves naturally. The Elves do not gloat, but rather, we feel sympathy for those creatures not blessed with our gifts. Among the more important abilities the Fair Folk are born with are Communion, Elvensight, Manifestation, the Reverie, the Elven Bond, and a natural hardiness that allows for adapting to extreme climatic conditions and resistance to diseases. To offer a quote from pretty good source I like to use when I need some elf rp direction. It's not primary source but someone's report on collection of sources through out forgotten relams when concerning elves. You can refrence some of the bibliography and trace back to primary source. http://lord-karsus.deviantart.com/art/E ... -143874818 Does a drow have these gifts too? Likely, though are they training comminion, and reverie, and soul bonds? ... eh unlikely imo. |
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| Author: | Moogle [ Tue, May 12 2015, 3:04 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
There's a few topics about this already, though they're in Winya's forums. The IC one and the OOC discussion type one that includes tidbits about Drow. Just for reference's sake: |
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| Author: | The Great Equalizer [ Tue, May 12 2015, 6:22 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverie and the Drow |
Elves of Faerun is a Fantastic source and while not a primary source itself every part of it is directly taken from primary sources (and in many cases basically just rephrased to avoid issues with WoTC) the reason it gives so much more than you can find normally is in large part due to them having used all of the dragon magazine references as well which was a cannon source but far rarely referenced due to the nature of it being across a large number of magazines and so harder to reference between players. |
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