AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

I'm curious how the assassin skills/widget work O.o Does the technique you decide to use, replace the original "Death Attack" that cause paralysis? And if so, does it work the same way, Ie only activates if you sneak up and attack someone that is not in combat?

Oooor is it per round, together and activates on normal sneak/death attacks? >.>

Quote:

Assassin Tools:This is a widget automatically gained upon taking an Assassin level. It will impart your weapon (be it glove, bow or blade) with the ability to make a special strike once every turn. The DC calculation is 10 + Assassin level + Intelligence modifier. Note that the ability doesn't have to be reapplied each time; it persists for 1 Turn per Assassin level.

Ah, so lets say one is lvl 5 assassin. After activating the widget, he/she has 5 rounds whiles the attacks will be affected by this? Or is it the length for number of rounds which the target is stunned etc? :mrgreen:

Once you activate it, the special effect will be triggered once every turn for a number of turns equal to your assassin level.

I've been thinking of a cheesy PM build, but only because I like the RP I've thought out for it. Not to say I would have my RP preordained or anything.

My initial plan was to go Bard13/BG7/PM10 but I realised I wouldn't have the feats for all the essential things like Maximise spell to make use of the 13th Bard level or Divine shield to make the divine thing worthwhile, so now I'm thinking if I should go full BG. Bard5/BG15/PM10 is a possibility after all, and not an entirely bad one, though I would appreciate the Curse from bard as well as the bag of tricks along with it. So I'm hanging between the two choices here. My heart says to go with my initial plan and alas I would have to sacrifice Blindfight and Divine shield in order to make it work, but I want it so bad. The second would be simply easier to execute.

I cant recall the requirements... can you do 16 BG Mr. Opustus? For the summon at the very least? I dont thinks so, but not at a computer to double check.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Blooody hells. It seems that the only good spell foci for a sorc are specifically evocation, or necromancy if you want.
Grrr... i HATE the feeling that i have invested feats in a useless school

Perks of each school:
Abjuration:
-stoneskin gets more damage consumed
-spellmantles get more spells consumed
-elements get more damage consumed
-globe of invulnerability gets x10 duration
-immunity from poison
-banishment/dismissal gets a higher DC

Conjuration:
-fog stuff gets higher dc
-black tentacle gets higher dc
-epic dragon knight gets x10 duration

Divination:
-power words get higher maximum values to do their effect
-feeblemind gets higher dc
-premonition gets more damage consumed
-i think you get bonuses to Spot/Listen from the sight spells

Enchantment:
-mind things get higher dc

Evocation:
-blow up stuff at higher dc

Illusion:
-weird gets higher dc
-blind/deaf gets higher dc
-think there are a few spells added from the module that i can't think of off the top of my head that may get some bonuses

Necromancy:
-instant death stuff higher dc
-horrid wilting higher dc
-level drain higher dc

Transmutation:
-flesh to stone is the only thing i can see that benefits

I'd say they're all useful besides Conjuration and Transmutation as far as spell focuses go. Divination may not be that great unless you have spot but being able to kill a single target with <300 health in a round seems like a decent investment (greater ruin+power word kill = unavoidable 300 damage). If you wanna happy birthday people though, should probably stick with evocation or necromancy.

GreatPigeon wrote:

I cant recall the requirements... can you do 16 BG Mr. Opustus? For the summon at the very least? I dont thinks so, but not at a computer to double check.

bard 3 -> pale 8 = 6 ab
yeah he can do 4 bard/10 pm/16 bg

GreatPigeon wrote:

I cant recall the requirements... can you do 16 BG Mr. Opustus? For the summon at the very least? I dont thinks so, but not at a computer to double check.

Oh, good catch there, birdie. I thought I'd be cunning and do BG15 just to spit in the face of the standard. The summon requires only BG15, y'see. But still my internal conflict remains largely unresolved.

You can only actually take the summon on 16, however!

Oh. Fudge dat bro, nwn be mofo, shit ho.

Omfg awesome!!! Feeblemind is like a wizard rape spell!

Shame there is none vs sorcerers!... best research one

Throw cow dung at 'em!

Psionics has Ego Whip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/egoWhip.htm) which should be pretty easy to adapt to Arcane. It's a cool name if nothing else!

serbiris wrote:

Psionics has Ego Whip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/egoWhip.htm) which should be pretty easy to adapt to Arcane. It's a cool name if nothing else!

Quote:

Augment
For every 4 additional power points you spend, this power’s Charisma damage increases by 1d4 points and its save DC increases by 2.

I don't understand how power points work but if it's anything like DBZ I have over nine thousand and that is a disgusting result.

Last edited by slkNihilus on Tue, Mar 05 2013, 20:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.

And well, since Bioware messed up the spells in NWN beyond what anyone thought humanly possible it might not come as a shock to anyone that Feeblemind should function quite a bit differently and... well, belong to another School altogether.

If anyone's too lazy to check out the link, the short of it is: it should affect CHA and INT both. Also it doesn't do Xd4 ability damage, it automatically reduces the scores to 1.

You generally don't have that many power points to spend and you can't spend more than your level in a single power, so there are checks and balances.

Can't we add those spells then?

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

I've been thinking of a cheesy PM build, but only because I like the RP I've thought out for it. Not to say I would have my RP preordained or anything.

My initial plan was to go Bard13/BG7/PM10 but I realised I wouldn't have the feats for all the essential things like Maximise spell to make use of the 13th Bard level or Divine shield to make the divine thing worthwhile, so now I'm thinking if I should go full BG. Bard5/BG15/PM10 is a possibility after all, and not an entirely bad one, though I would appreciate the Curse from bard as well as the bag of tricks along with it. So I'm hanging between the two choices here. My heart says to go with my initial plan and alas I would have to sacrifice Blindfight and Divine shield in order to make it work, but I want it so bad. The second would be simply easier to execute.

The real choice here is, when going for 16 BG, do you want 4 attacks, or do you want a bard skill dump in the epics.

Bard3/PM8/BG9 pre epic is BAB 15
Bard4/PM6/BG10 pre epic is BAB 16

The latter will be lack of tumble dump, but between PM and BG you get a decent skill repertoire, plus Bone Skin and Divine Shield will already give you tons of AC, so -3 Tumble AC is not going to hurt so much. I'd take the 4'th attack.

Pro tip: consider Brew Potion feat.

Brew Potion for what exactly? Also a thing why I'd like to avert Bard4 is that all of my potions would have the effective CL of 4, which is piss-poor. And uh, yes, the fourth attack was in fact the initial reason why I would have gone Bard5/PM10/BG15, but since the summon is not accessible without level 16 BG, I arrive at the crossroads we see here. I'll post the information of both of the builds with their respective stats to put things into perspective once I find the time.

CL4 or 5 doesn't make any difference, you'll be vulnerable to dispels anyway. And Brew Potion will give you self-reliance and the best use you can make of your spell book. Haste(10), UV, See Inv, Keen Edge(7), Wounding Whispers, Displacement - those and a bunch more, in potions will have longer durations, more "casts" per day, and you can even trade or something...

EDIT: Wait... actually i'm not sure if you'll get to learn any 3'rd level spells... possibly if you take a 5'th bard level in the epics, but don't quote me on that.

So I'm contemplating a build for a new drow character.

Basic concept, he's a sadistic drow, sneaky, duplicitive, corruptive, manipulative etc. But he's also a killer.

So I liked the idea of doing a Fighter/WM/Assassin build.
However, I've recently learned a bit about the Shifter class, and being able to shapeshift into a variety of forms for sneakiness is appealing to me, not least of which being able to take on a dragon form (He has an IC association with dragons).

Any thoughts or recommendations on either of those two builds? Or another build entirely?

If I'm thinking correctly, you'd sacrifice every single epic feat for Great Wisdom to get to 30 for dragonshape. I'm not sure 5 Great Wisdoms and Dragonshape are worth it as your only epic feats.

I would recommend against the Fighter/WM/Assassin as you'd be crossclassing 8 Hide and Move Silently ranks. That's 32 skill points just to qualify for the class.

A fun sneaky type build for a drow would be Rogue 17 / Fighter 6 / Master Scout 5. Lots of utility and very solid.

The dragon is a red herring.

For a shifter build, if I were to guess at your concept you could get away with Divine Champion levels for extra feats, and thus extra GW. You would still be feat-strapped, of course.

Another option would be to get a custom dragon form rather than dragonshape, except the form wouldn't be terribly potent.

Potency is not an issue. So having a customized shapechange would be awesome.

I'll take a look into Master Scout, can someone sumarize its uses/virtes?

To clarify, the shapechanged potency is not of issue, but if I didn't care about overall character potency I wouldn't be posting.

Theander wrote:

I'll take a look into Master Scout, can someone sumarize its uses/virtes?

viewtopic.php?f=20&p=934682#p934682

Alright. I've been tossing around the idea of a 6Fighter/5Master scout/19Assassin, 6/4/10 pre epic.

Pre-epic feats: Finesse, WF dagger, ITWF, SF spot, SF listen, IKD, Imp crit, and blind fight. (And Gfort with masterscout bonus feat)

Post-epic: EWF dagger, Armor skin, Gdex I, Prowess, Improved Evasion, Defensive Roll, Edodge

Any ideas/advice? Missing out on EWS and kukris makes me a little sad, but I don't see any other way to make it work without sacrificing something more important.

Edit: Also, would this be a better option compared to a 8/3/19 fighter/rog/assassin, 12 sneak dice w/ EWS?

DerkDerkistan wrote:

If I'm thinking correctly, you'd sacrifice every single epic feat for Great Wisdom to get to 30 for dragonshape. I'm not sure 5 Great Wisdoms and Dragonshape are worth it as your only epic feats.

I would recommend against the Fighter/WM/Assassin as you'd be crossclassing 8 Hide and Move Silently ranks. That's 32 skill points just to qualify for the class.

A fun sneaky type build for a drow would be Rogue 17 / Fighter 6 / Master Scout 5. Lots of utility and very solid.

If you go Druid/Shifter/COT you can get all shapes. Use 5 Druid, 6 COT(the sixth level in epic) and you get enough GREAT Wisdom feats.

Very_Svensk wrote:

DerkDerkistan wrote:

If I'm thinking correctly, you'd sacrifice every single epic feat for Great Wisdom to get to 30 for dragonshape. I'm not sure 5 Great Wisdoms and Dragonshape are worth it as your only epic feats.

I would recommend against the Fighter/WM/Assassin as you'd be crossclassing 8 Hide and Move Silently ranks. That's 32 skill points just to qualify for the class.

A fun sneaky type build for a drow would be Rogue 17 / Fighter 6 / Master Scout 5. Lots of utility and very solid.

If you go Druid/Shifter/COT you can get all shapes. Use 5 Druid, 6 COT(the sixth level in epic) and you get enough GREAT Wisdom feats.

Maybe you missed the part where he's drow and loses 2 levels?

Well, if not a Fighter/Assassin/Weapon Master build, how about a Rogue/WM/? build?

I never tried the dex based epic dodging Rogue/Fighter/WM build for a drow.

Rogue 15 / Fighter 6 / WM 7?
Rogue 17 / Fighter 6 / WM 5?

Theander wrote:

Well, if not a Fighter/Assassin/Weapon Master build, how about a Rogue/WM/? build?

Well, then you're looking at a fighter build, most likely, which brings you to fighter/rogue/WM, 10/1/19 or 10/2/16 if you're still going for drow. A dex-based WM is pretty much pointless, imho.

Edit: An STR-based 12/11/7 fighter/rog/WM might be worth looking into, however.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

DerkDerkistan wrote:

If I'm thinking correctly, you'd sacrifice every single epic feat for Great Wisdom to get to 30 for dragonshape. I'm not sure 5 Great Wisdoms and Dragonshape are worth it as your only epic feats.

I would recommend against the Fighter/WM/Assassin as you'd be crossclassing 8 Hide and Move Silently ranks. That's 32 skill points just to qualify for the class.

A fun sneaky type build for a drow would be Rogue 17 / Fighter 6 / Master Scout 5. Lots of utility and very solid.

If you go Druid/Shifter/COT you can get all shapes. Use 5 Druid, 6 COT(the sixth level in epic) and you get enough GREAT Wisdom feats.

Maybe you missed the part where he's drow and loses 2 levels?

Don't be snarky. But yes i missed that.

wolfurt wrote:

Alright. I've been tossing around the idea of a 6Fighter/5Master scout/19Assassin, 6/4/10 pre epic.

Pre-epic feats: Finesse, WF dagger, ITWF, SF spot, SF listen, IKD, Imp crit, and blind fight. (And Gfort with masterscout bonus feat)

Post-epic: EWF dagger, Armor skin, Gdex I, Prowess, Improved Evasion, Defensive Roll, Edodge

Any ideas/advice? Missing out on EWS and kukris makes me a little sad, but I don't see any other way to make it work without sacrificing something more important.

Edit: Also, would this be a better option compared to a 8/3/19 fighter/rog/assassin, 12 sneak dice w/ EWS?

You could go Fighter7/MS5/Assassin18 with Improved Crit sacrificed for WS and Epic prowess for EWS. Or IKD for WS, if you're defiant of losing Imp Crit (a medium-sized creature can knock down quite a lot of things in PvM without IKD). Not sure if it's worth it, though, since you'd be also giving up a sneak die for it, but it is an alternative, nonetheless. MS is great for sneaky builds, I'd definitely hold onto it if it fits your RP.

Is it possible to blend a Paladin/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple who has Concentration, Discipline, Lore, Persuade, and Taunt, and doesn't completely suck? I've been at this for a couple days now...

Heavy in sorcerer, or paladin?

CouncilofAutumn wrote:

Is it possible to blend a Paladin/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple who has Concentration, Discipline, Lore, Persuade, and Taunt, and doesn't completely suck? I've been at this for a couple days now...

Paladin 24/Sorc 2/Dragon Disciple 4
Don't know if you want cha or strength based though, so I won't continue.

Bini wrote:

Heavy in sorcerer, or paladin?

I didn't think about that. Heavy in sorcerer might be fun, but I think Paladin meshes better with DD, yeah?

Also, going with base race of Durpari, and Gold Dragon.

Cerpin: What stats?

CouncilofAutumn wrote:

Bini wrote:

Heavy in sorcerer, or paladin?

I didn't think about that. Heavy in sorcerer might be fun, but I think Paladin meshes better with DD, yeah?

Also, going with base race of Durpari, and Gold Dragon.

Cerpin: What stats?

Human: Durpari (-1 str, -1 con, +2 cha)
14/9/10/14/14/16
Get 5 skills. Get 18 str with 23 cha with no feats, or 26 str and 16 cha with no feats.
This is assuming you want to be a melee paladin. If you wanted to be a caster, just get enough paladin to equal your cha mod for divine shield.

Well, I imagine you'd like to go deeper into DD than 4, and to have an effective sorcerer you'd want at least 21 levels, but that doesn't leave much room for dragon disciple or paladin levels at all. As for a paladin-heavy build I think you'd be best served going 10 dragon disciple, 1 sorcerer, 19 paladin, as it will net you the charisma increase of dragon disciple, your precious wings, and enough paladin caster levels to buff yourself silly.

Your skills should be concentration, discipline, taunt, cross-class tumble, and spot (assuming you took Cerpin's sound advice on abilities) if you want to be effective. Keep in mind you'll have a bit of extra left aside from the intelligence increase from dragon disciple, and you can use those towards lore, or junk like persuade as you so choose.

Your pre-epic feats should be: power attack, divine might, divine shield, improved critical, weapon focus, blind fight; and either cleave and great cleave or knockdown and extra turning, depending on whether you're taking enough strength for devastating critical or not.

Epic feats should be: armor skin, epic weapon focus; and either overwhelming critical and devastating critical, or epic prowess and improved critical (or anything of your choice, really).

Hey guys. I'm wondering about a typical cleric build strong enough to be in the front line. Never played once, never did such build before. I would really appreciate inputs about the status and everything else. You can send me PMs if you think that will pollute this thread too much. I thank you !

Any cleric. Especially any cleric with a 1 handed weapon. The end. Even caster clerics get 50 ab, so no worries. And All clerics pull ungodly or "godly" (pun) AC.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Any cleric. Especially any cleric with a 1 handed weapon. The end. Even caster clerics get 50 ab, so no worries. And All clerics pull ungodly or "godly" (pun) AC.

Mr. Pigeon is completely correct here, a cleric can handle alot of situations and come out on top. I've made a number of clerics and I can PM you some stuff and hash up some master plan.

What do you want from the cleric, functionally and aesthetically? Who does he worship and what kind of combatant is he? Cleric is so versatile you can pretty much tailor your build around any quirk and flavor and not be overly gimped.

I have a question... I have a melee cleric with 4 DC levels instead of 4 Fighter levels and I have never reached 50 AB/AC (that I can remember), I only come close (with +5 booties). The only thing I can think of (for AC) is I lack a natural ac ammy, since she uses a +5 WIS one. Though even with Barkskin I don't think she hits 50 AC. AB is like 48 I think, but if a caster can get higher than that, there is something wrong. This is with 24 CL, Bless, Aid, Divine might/Power, Battletide, GMW. Could be a STR mod thing, too, idk.

Is your cleric a charisma build?

My melee cleric gets 54 AB (without the War Domain power bonus) and 70 AC with Divine Shield.

Stats are somewhat spread, so that could be it. 20 WIS, 16 INT, 16 CHA, 16 STR at level 30. I forgot with DivShi she gets over 50, hah. That helps to remember.

Also, I lied, she's 23 cleric (stupid +2 ECL).

It's pretty easy to get over 50 AC on a cleric with no divine shield or +5 gear... I mean considering you can make your armour and shield +5 with Magic Vestment. And well... with a tumble dump. If you didn't do that, it might explain the lack of AC? Missing out on that natural armour also hurts a bit.

Edit: I get nearly the same AB/AC as Derk on a drow (so +2 ECL).

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