Not enough feats, Pris.

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feel the blood gushing from your anusfeel the blood gushing from your anus

16 rogue is an option, but I'm actually leaning closer to R14 / F7 / WM 7 or 15/6/7

12 rogue pre-epic, pumping the weapon master pre-epic and fighter levels to get into Weapon Master. That gives me 17/12/7/2 BAB, and I can get Crippling Strike, Defensive Roll and Epic Dodge, grabbing two of the feats at level 21 as the lv13 rogue bonus and an epic level, capping with a rogue level.


Going 15 / 6 / 7 means more skill points in epic.

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Unuldor d'Vilrath - Herald of Discipline
Nadrin Vlos - sadistic torturer, physician and
Brognar Steerinsport - crazy dueregar monk
Saul Rephaim - Sane

You won't have crippling strike and epic dodge with only 14 rogue levels; that's just not possible. The only difference between R14 / F7 / WM 7 and 16 Rogue/5 Fighter/7 Weapon Master is a loss of 1d6 sneak and 12 skillpoints and the potential to pick up crippling strike.

To have just barely enough feats for the build you'll need to go 5 Weaponmaster, 19 Rogue, 6 Fighter whether on an elf or a human, or otherwise. The progression is as follows:

1) Fighter, Dodge, Mobility, (Knockdown)
2) Fighter, Weapon Finesse
3) Fighter, Weapon Focus: Rapier
4) Fighter, Weapon Specialization: Rapier
5) Rogue
6) Rogue, Spring Attack
7) Rogue
8) Rogue
9) Rogue, Expertise
10) Rogue
11) Rogue
12) Rogue, Whirlwind Attack
13) Weaponmaster
14) Weaponmaster
15) Weaponmaster, Improved Critical: Rapier
16) Weaponmaster
17) Rogue
18) Rogue, Improved Evasion, (Improved) Knockdown
19) Rogue
20) Rogue
21) Rogue, Defensive Roll, Epic Weapon Focus: Rapier
22) Fighter
23) Rogue
24) Fighter, Epic Weapon Specialization: Rapier
25) Rogue
26) Rogue, Crippling Strike
27) Rogue, Blind Fight
28) Rogue
29) Weaponmaster
30) Rogue, Armor Skin, Epic Dodge

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feel the blood gushing from your anusfeel the blood gushing from your anus

I think I might have asked this before, but that would be at least a half year ago and thus far gone into the long monster of a thread that this is: Exactly what is it that only rogues can do when it comes to traps? Are traps of more than 35 DC impossible to detect if one does not have a level in rogue? And with disable device, only with a level in rogue can a trap be disabled, but any other class can still flag, examine and recover it if of high enough skill?

dit: And also, how do the craft trap skill function on Amia? What can be made?

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

Armor Skin? You have Epic Dodge, shield and Expertise man, you don't need that with 60 AC hasted, 65 on Exp if need arises. I'd take an Epic Skill Focus in something, Hide is the first that comes to mind (108). Spot or Discipline might also be a reasonable choice.


Yes.

With Craft Trap you can make all Deadly traps, but not Epic ones. Master Scout can additionally pimp them up, and is a natural expansion class for any respectable trapper.

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Mark it zero!

The MS pimps them through the craft trap skill, or just by a class ability?

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

Class ability. Adds something on top of each type of trap, like additional damage, damage type or effect.

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Mark it zero!

This may make most people think I'm trippin' or something, but I would personally drop weapon spec in favour of Blindfight pre-epic in a build like that, especially considering dropping spec opens up a feat pre-epic (for Blindfight, ideally) and an extra in epic, plus the one for the absence of epicly taken Blindfight. For a lot of characters (keeping in mind I don't know of any more recent monster additions and/or potential changes) the first/earliest spawns with concealment are the Yuan-ti, usually and people go there around abouts 15th level, which is the level I almost always aim for Blindfight on just about all Meleer's/Ranged attackers and there are very few exceptions to that with my characters, ever since developing the OCD tendency of testing every single build before hand, saving different instances of the character with whatever variation(s) and using LETO to check the build log (Because I eventually got too lazy to type up the builds in documents when I wrote down over 100 separate ones... ).

I've managed before while not knowing even half as much about building and mechanics in the past as I do know about it all now, with relatively failed builds and no Blindfight, but once you taste the feat, even if it's only a small noticeable difference you (well I, atleast) wouldnt really want to go without it for that long with a head on combatant, or even a flanker/side support that doesn't just boom blast everything with offensive spells.

I know a lot of people like specialisation, even moreso on Dexers whose main damage source are sneak attacks, but I've often handled characters as such quite well considering the low head on damage when unable to sneak the target, but considering that build is a Rapier, improved crit and will probably be keened later on, even with only 5WM that is still a 12-20 crit range, maximum which makes all the difference (IMO, compared to a 15-20 or worse). So a lot of hits will crit and you shouldn't miss specialisation feats too much due to that.

Even if you have 10 base/none buffered strength you have a x3 multiplier and most Rogues have easy access to flame scrolls and if you play the character consistently enough after buying the rather expensive Rogue specific gear (assuming that's what you go for if at all, even if it's just a piece of clothing with AC, for them) it's likely you'll at some point get to have some more powerful Rapiers with better damage on them, obviously and there are a number of (short durational) damage buffers, too, though they're obviously better served for short burst fights, or Epic Boss bouts etc.. And most may find them a waste of time, especially in a party. Since its the whole 'Cleric-div might/shield-battletide-divine power-divine favour-etc' scenario where people often either charge in and maim, kill, destroy before you get a swing or they get tired of waiting and charge, assuming some, if any of your party members don't rely on others (or you, specifically) to tank and/or damage deal, etc..

Only real problem that would arise regarding the damage would be against things immune to crits, mostly, where the extra spec damage would come in handy. But I suppose the individual making the build has to weigh up the advantages and whatever is more worth it for themselves, aswell as what fits the character best.

For me, this is mostly due to how pre-epic feats in epic make the builder side of me cringe.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

Heya!

Well uh...I'm thinking about trying out a Caster Pale Master and while I think I have an idea how I want to go with it, I'm unsure about a couple of things and I was hoping for some advice.

Race: I first thought about Tiefling, but I'm unsure how that would work out only having 29(?) class levels (I was intending to go 20 PM for the top summons).

Classses: I was considering 10/9 Wiz/ 20 PM but again...Would you say that is a bad call? RP wise it would be cool to have some Rogue or Shadowdancer levels but I am unsure if that would work

Feats: Aside from seemingly obligatory SF Necromancy and possibly extend spell because of the weak non-necro spells, is there anything (amia-setting wise) that a PM "needs"?

And I guess finally...Is a Pale Master really viable as a caster? I'm not overly worried about powerbuilding but it would be nice to know I'm not playing as a wet paper bag too.

Thanks if you can help!

PM is good for PvP but from what I can gather not very worthwhile in PvM. The big problem is that all your non-necromancy spells like Mass Haste, GMW will have a pitiful duration. Even extended it doesn't measure up too well. Your attack spells should work fine, survivability great, summon is awesome. But I avoided caster PM because I occasionally like casting spells that aren't Necromancy.

With 10wiz/19PM you'll still get the top summon but only just, so no rogue/SD there. You won't be able to put in enough SD to get HiPS anyway.

Edit: Weeeell. Better to say that it does work, I just never liked it.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

I'll start off with saying that PM's in general, moreso casters are a pain to level if they go heavy/epic levels PM because of the not so great caster levels and capabilities, even at max (even Melee PM's can have a hard/easy time dependent on having more than 10PM and when the levels are taken in the build influence how hard it is), adding SD to the mix would (in theory, atleast. I've never made a PM/SD and I'm going off of more heavy wizzies/Sorc's who are shooting themself in the foot in numerous ways when taking SD levels, especially if it's pre-epic, furthermore pre-level 15/16 as 15 is the final GMW upgrade.)

A caster PM will always be out-shone by any dedicated caster, such as heavy Sorc/wiz as far as buffers and offensive spells go, though buffers are the bigger down fall for a Pm, they can rely on instant damaging spells more than durational anything-spells (you can access epic spells still, though. That does help some) but you get access to quite a few Nero summons with PM. Also, I believe that PM were given a CL boost in some way with regards t necromancy so they can achieve their classes best(?) summon, the Winter Wight.

Most common caster classes I've heard of/seen include wiz10/20PM, W9/PM20/F1 (and some similar variations, sometimes Rogue or Bard in place of Fighter, Bard usually serves for Tumble, UMD and shield if desired and maybe some other things), generally 16 upward PM levels for epic spells and other class perks. W20/PM10 is not unheard of, either, better durations and spell levels etc, but no epic spells.

I think a Tiefer PM isn't a bad idea, especially for the extra INT, but the ECL makes me cringe, personally, but it isn't that bad a compromise I don't think, considering a boost in the usual base/major stat of caster PM's. You also need a minimum of 20 in any stat that relates to the casters casting capabilities to use Epic Spells. You can take Epic spell feats as normal before the stat reaching 20, but using the spell feat will do nothing until your base stat achieves 20 from levelling up.

As with most heavy Pm builds you'll mostly rely on your multitude of summons (EMD is nice, even with Winter Wight as you have more to fall back on should one fail and don't necessarily always need to be buffered to the high heavens in every battle, unlike a number of other summons, including EDK.)

EMD is also changed here, by default you get the undead creature, but you're given a scroll of summoning where you can choose another summon according to what fits the character most. It should be listed on the sidebar or somewhere for some more specifics.

If you do go the SD route, take note HIPS has a cool down timer. Wen you can Re-hide a message pops up to remind you. If you unhide, then hide again before the cool down finishes and someone is directly observing your character the whole time (I.E, you're in range of perception and line of sight is not broken) then you will still be visible to them up until you unstealth and re-stealth to initiate the use of HIPS.

And lastly, the PM grafts have been made quite a bit more useful than the standard/vanilla versions. They can be used much more (iirc they don't have a limit on uses, possibly a cool down, though or something).

P.S Sorry for lengthy response.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

For the build experts out there I leave you with this easy to solve conundrum.

I want a Bard build in conjunction with Knight Commander, a total support toon that can make a party completely rock. Mass haste, bard song et al. What am I looking at in terms of starting stats that will maximize this role? How much cha, str, intel? Is longsword, greatsword, or even daggers the way to go for a weapon?

What would a feat progression be? It would also be the first time I'm running a KC so there should be better abilities. What in your experiences are the primo ones?

I would like an AC that allows him to fight even if he doesn't do alot of damage. I don't want him to be taken out easily and can survive a scrap long enough to escape or get out of the way.

I think I'm talking like a Bard 25/KC 5 or a derivative thereof.

Thanks up front,

Baden

PS. My old computer with my familiar build program died. The new computer, well no build program. So is there one out there since I can no longer find the old one that you would recommend?

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I'm BACK!

Just take Mahir's build. It seems to work damn fine. 25/5... I know you are sharp enough to go ahead and build something up first then send it back for inspection. So do that Baden and then I'll compare for you.

18 charisma and 18 strength is my thing.

KC makes you want to be on the front line, as does curse song. So I personally recommend to sword and board it.

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

I'd definitely go shield and sword. And, if you're into that sort of thing, you can try bard 21/KC 5/Fighter 4. Nets you both Lasting Inspiration and Dev Crit. Should end up with decent AB when buffed ~50 and AC of 60+ with +4 gear.

Just take? *confused look* Have I ever seen it? I guess you are not gonna let me off easy. *pulls out the pen and paper* I'll get back to you in a few days, weeks............well someday later, with my build.

If I make up the build I am gonna have to perloin your DC'd armor that you like so much. Mwahahaha.

Baden

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I'm BACK!

I'd imagine he meant the build layout (25/5) more than anything, Baden, rather than all the feats or specific stat scores, possibly.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

You wrote so much, but said so little, however, you're right, it would be perfectly reasonable to substitute either knockdown or improved knockdown, depending on if you're a human or not with blind fight in order to obtain it for the Yuan-ti.

As for weapon specialization you're wholly wrong as the additional damage is also multiplied on a crit, as per the deliberate synergy of weapon master's and fighter's class features. It is extremely valuable on a dexterity or strength weapon master and there is nothing better to substitute for it.

Finally, the builder-side of you should be less pedantic, as pre-epic feats in epic is something to be looked at with a case by case discretion; look at 24 barbarian, 4 fighter, 2 rogue, or 24 paladin, 4 fighter, 2 rogue for instance.



Aeqvinox is right there, taking armor skin wouldn't be optimal. Depending on what your gear looks like later on, epic fortitude is also something to consider instead.

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feel the blood gushing from your anusfeel the blood gushing from your anus

Just pm if you need guidance

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

I never said that weapon specialisation didn't multiply on crit, anyway. But just about everything I said was my own way of doing things and what I consider better from my standpoint, not saying anyone/everyone else should adopt the same view or anything nor do what I say, for that matter. But weapon specialisation has never been a priority feat for me with any build, Dex or otherwise. The only reasons I really ever went for those feats were because others recommended/suggested such and a lot stand by them as essentials for a lot of their builds and back then my knowledge for better builds was very much limited so what they told me they thought I should go with was a lot better than my own combo's at the time, at least. But when I got to grips with how things worked I developed my own mind-list of priorities in building and usually only went against that if it was innapropriate in some way that I could see.

I'm not saying epic spec is a wasted feat or anything, either. Extra 6 damage every hit and 12 every crit is more than it sounds, as consistent damage is better than damage rolls, which is why a 1d4 electric damage sword costs less than a 4 electrical damage sword, usually.

I agree about what you say on being less pedantic. It annoys me that I'm so OCD about it at times. I do realise that there are numerous builds that may require pre-epics in epic, too though, but I can't help but feel a little bad on the inside so to speak if I do that with a build of my own, unless there are no other epic choices on the level I take the pre-epic feat beyond 21st, etc.. By its mostly driven by a seed of thought planted that tells me pre-epic feats belong taken between 1-20 and epic 21+. It's a tough one to shake.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

I'm back. >_> So... I have been missing you crazy people and figured I'd try to cure my altaholicness by picking one character and sticking with it. I had a couple questions that may (probably) have been asked before but here is what I have this is where I hope to be by level 30:

AC: Armor (8 + 5) + Shield (3 + 5) + Boots (+5) + Amulet (+4) + Cloak (+4) + Haste (+4) + Div Shield (+10) + Armor Skin (+2) + Dex (+1) + Tumble (+6) + Being Awesome (+10) = 67 AC correct? The being awesome is just the starting AC of 10.

AB: BAB 25 + 20 Bonus + 3 from Wep Focus and Epic Wep Focus = 48

Are these sufficient to not be a burden on a group? Hopefully the math is correct? Been a while since I calculated by hand instead of letting nwn do it for me. Pulled up the wiki so hopefully I read it correctly.

Quick Edit: And Epic Mummy Dust or Epic Spell: Greater Ruin?

Character concept:

Race: Human
Class: Cleric
Alignment: LN
Deity: Red Knight

Aiming for more of a strategist roll, a'la High Defense, given my unfamiliarity with the server and her own inclination to observe from the front, I figured being skilled at protecting herself would allow her to live long enough to experience the different aspects of War and figure out where her talents would be best applied. On the one hand Epic Mummy Dust would open up strategies and could play into her character quite well. I am still trying to familiarize myself with the different summons to see which one would fit her more precisely. Though Greater Ruin might fit as well, a the Red Knight teaches "Only by focusing one's own strengths on the opponent's vulnerabilities can triumph be ensured." evidenced again in hopefully her ability to survive long enough to identify a key target to Greater Ruin so to speak. Though the Mummy Dust also plays to the teachings of : "Be ready -- and have a contingency plan." I'm a bit torn really.

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Magic? Magic!? Who needs magic!? I have the power of SCIENCE! - me

Office Hours: (When I can be online in Amia) Saturdays only for a while.

Characters: Azurlana Flowers (Main), Alarkadaiel Silversong (Probably Retired), Lydia Grey

Isn't Crippling strike part of the standard list of 'special rogue feats'? Meaning I can get it pre-epic?

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Unuldor d'Vilrath - Herald of Discipline
Nadrin Vlos - sadistic torturer, physician and
Brognar Steerinsport - crazy dueregar monk
Saul Rephaim - Sane

Yes, but you get one of those feats at 10, 13, 16, and 19, as well, you can opt to take it on an epic rogue bonus feat. Thusly, you'd only be able to get two of them on a build with less than 16 levels of rogue, and to get epic dodge and crippling strike without assassin, monk, or shadowdancer levels, you need three of them.

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feel the blood gushing from your anusfeel the blood gushing from your anus

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Magic? Magic!? Who needs magic!? I have the power of SCIENCE! - me

Office Hours: (When I can be online in Amia) Saturdays only for a while.

Characters: Azurlana Flowers (Main), Alarkadaiel Silversong (Probably Retired), Lydia Grey

but on a cleric epic mummy dust is something to pick up before greater ruin, simply because you already have so many tools to obliterate undead with.

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feel the blood gushing from your anusfeel the blood gushing from your anus

I can't get both in my build. Not enough feats, and I have a terrible case of altaholism. Don't judge. I also played on different name than my forum name to keep my characters separate. >_> Unfortunately when I went back to college I forgot a lot of the passwords so I'm back with the one that matches my forum name.

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Magic? Magic!? Who needs magic!? I have the power of SCIENCE! - me

Office Hours: (When I can be online in Amia) Saturdays only for a while.

Characters: Azurlana Flowers (Main), Alarkadaiel Silversong (Probably Retired), Lydia Grey

Why can't you?
4 general epic feats + 1/2/3 epic cleric feats +x other class epic feats.
epic weapon focus, armor skin, epic spell focus, greater ruin, mummy dust, great wisdom

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THREE

These are my epic feats: IKD (I know pre-epic feat in epic) Epic Wep Focus, Improved Crit, Armor Skin, Great Wis 1, Epic Mummy Dust/Greater Ruin, Wep Spec/Epic Wep spec. Epic class levels after 20 are 4 fighter, 5 Cleric, 1 Rogue

Edit: Well here is my feat list hope it helps-

Pre- Epic: Power Attack, Divine Might, Ext Spell, Max Spell, Divine Shield, Knockdown, Blind Fight <-- 20 levels Cleric.

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Magic? Magic!? Who needs magic!? I have the power of SCIENCE! - me

Office Hours: (When I can be online in Amia) Saturdays only for a while.

Characters: Azurlana Flowers (Main), Alarkadaiel Silversong (Probably Retired), Lydia Grey

Just take epic mummy dust, I didn't mean to suggest that you must have both, just if there's a choice to make, the obvious pick is epic mummy dust.

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feel the blood gushing from your anusfeel the blood gushing from your anus

Cheers mate. <3

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Magic? Magic!? Who needs magic!? I have the power of SCIENCE! - me

Office Hours: (When I can be online in Amia) Saturdays only for a while.

Characters: Azurlana Flowers (Main), Alarkadaiel Silversong (Probably Retired), Lydia Grey

But I only need Defensive Roll and Crippling Strike do I not? That's only 2 rogue feats, 13 levels minimum of Rogue for the build, leaving me only needing one rogue level in Epic to get Epic Dodge

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Unuldor d'Vilrath - Herald of Discipline
Nadrin Vlos - sadistic torturer, physician and
Brognar Steerinsport - crazy dueregar monk
Saul Rephaim - Sane

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_dodge

You need Improved Evasion and Defensive Roll.... meaning you would have to use both Rogue Bonus Feats for those two instead of Crip Strike.

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Magic? Magic!? Who needs magic!? I have the power of SCIENCE! - me

Office Hours: (When I can be online in Amia) Saturdays only for a while.

Characters: Azurlana Flowers (Main), Alarkadaiel Silversong (Probably Retired), Lydia Grey

Ah. I had it in my head that Imp Ev was automatic. Silly me.

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Unuldor d'Vilrath - Herald of Discipline
Nadrin Vlos - sadistic torturer, physician and
Brognar Steerinsport - crazy dueregar monk
Saul Rephaim - Sane

You are thinking about 10 SD.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

@broken damaged yada yada

Decide how based on her roleplay develops. That being said mummy dust

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

On a drow 11 Fighter/16 WM/1 Rogue what is more important:
26 STR (Great Strength x2), Armor Skin, or EWS?
I'm leaning for 26 STR/EWS, personally. Current listed feats are: Great Strength x2, EWF, EWS, Epic Prow

Also, I keep forgetting, but 16 WM is the one you shoot for right? 13 is skipped, I believe, and 7 is the other 'sweet spot'.
Running into a feat-issue, sorta, since those last two levels completely hose builds sometimes.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I'd go EWF myself and 16 WM is nice, yes, though 13 isn't bad either. Every 3 levels after 10 you get a bonus feat and +1 AB.

Well it's having EWF regardless ;p I was trying to choose between the three listed (though dropping to 24 STR means -1 ab/dmg it frees two epic feats which is nifty).

And yeah, 13 WM is usually said to be a waste compared to 16 WM, if the other levels are Fighter since you gain more from the WM. Buuuuut on a drow build, might be worth it.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I meant EWS not EFW.

Yeah that's right you better have! >8U


:3
Though that's a nice thought. Taking EWS means removing both Great Strength feats, so I could take Armor Skin as well. Neat, I didn't think of that lol

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

20 Fighter/7 WM/1 Rogue is superior on the drow subrace.

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"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."

Can I ask why? The huge number of fighter levels makes me go o.o

For one I can think of the loss of +2 AB from WM 16, can you make that up easily? I know there's a larger spread of feats, but only so many can boost AB.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Because there's not enough feats post-epic to make it worth it. You lose out on your 12th Fighter feat and your 30th level feat. Your build has it even worse because you apparently started with 17 Strength instead of 18 Strength (whyyy), so you can't even take Dev Crit nor Armor Skin. Unless you're using a two-handed weapon, you're really missing out on one of the major perks of being a WM by not bothering with Dev Crit on a strength build. The extra fighter levels will also allow you to take Improved Knockdown pre-epic.

+2 AB is good, yeah, but I'd rather take +2 AC, 2d6 (at least) Massive Criticals, Improved Knockdown and Dev Crit.

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"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."

Well, really the builds -was- going to be Fighter/7 WM/5 KC so I had to toss in extra INT and gave the last two points to CHA. I've been debating changing it.

Sadly it's in progress, so making do haha. There was no way to fit Dev Crit originally
Although... he is low enough level I could rebuild... only just hit 6 ._.

Alternatively I could sacrifice Armor Skin and Epic Fort (or Epic Prowess) for Dev Crit >_> Honestly I would need to sacrifice one anyways with drow because with 18 starting STR you still need 1 Great STR unless you go for only 25 STR, which isn't all that bad I guess.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Why you do dat bro, why you do dat.

Seriously that build is going to wind up on your scrap heap due to unenjoyableness.

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

I try fix, why you no help comrade?

The original build was for something quirky (like my fighter/bg/kc build which I actually enjoy, except that BG are inherently gimped as a class), and it was meant for groups (hence the KC) which still being able to smack things. Dev Crit, always nice to have of course, just couldn't fit it.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Blackguard is a good class, but you're mixing it with two other classes in a combo that doesn't work for it. Too many feats need to go into Divine Shield/Might plus KC requirements, and you get no tumble dump. Thus, you're feat starved, skill point starved and AC starved.

16 Fighter/7 WM/5 KC works I guess, just expect to die a lot. And you're even more feat-deprived than the BG example I gave...

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"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."

You are wrong Sune! WRONG!

I kid, and I know, I do this to myself on purpose sometimes for the purpose of having interesting builds. My BG has worked well in parties so far


But I really need some advice on the drow one. I could drop Armor Skin and Epic Fort (shudder, 14 base Fort, stupid WM ref saves) for Dev Crit, or just say screw it and go with 26 STR (Great Strength x2), Armor Skin, Epic Fort.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I already said what I'd do. 20/7/1 would let you take everything, even with a 17 starter Strength.

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"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."

I'm not seeing how I can get all that, though >_>

3 Epic feats + 4 Fighter feats (from 9 Fighter in epic) = 7 feats

Great Strength, EWS, OverCrit, Great Strength, DevCrit, Epic Prowess, EWS = 7 feats

So I have no room for Armor Skin If I can get Armor Skin shoved in that would be nice, indeed.
Seriously, I think I'm just having a disconnect in my brain somewhere and I'm not seeing the solution hah. Here's what I laid out:

Fighter(20), Rogue(1), Weapon Master(7), Drow

STR: 17 (26)
DEX: 13
CON: 10
WIS: 10
INT: 16
CHA: 12

01: Fighter(1): Dodge, Mobility
02: Fighter(2): Weapon Focus: Longsword
03: Fighter(3): Expertise
04: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: Longsword
06: Fighter(6): Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack <-- Current level
07: Weapon Master(1): Weapon of Choice: Longsword
09: Weapon Master(3): Knockdown
12: Weapon Master(6): Improved Critical: Longsword
15: Fighter(8): Power Attack, Improved Knockdown
17: Fighter(10): Blind Fight
18: Fighter(11): Cleave
19: Fighter(12): Great Cleave
21: Fighter(14): Great Strength I, Epic Weapon Focus: Longsword
23: Fighter(16): Overwhelming Critical: Longsword
24: Fighter(17): Great Strength II
25: Fighter(18): Devastating Critical: Longsword
27: Rogue(1): Epic Prowess
28: Fighter(20): Epic Weapon Specialization: Longsword

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Oh yeah, that 17 Strength does screw you over. If you'd have went 18 Strength like a sensible person (don't even need to dump stat as a drow to get it!) you'd have exactly the right amount of feats for everything. Sucks to be you.

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"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."