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Ranger is -Not- a melee druid...

GreatPigeon is probably right about Dragonshape being the only viable route, although when you're pure-ish Druid you can run 3 Extended Auras of Vitality, thus topping out your STR to 48 so you hit like a truck and with decent AB(I think high 40's), and of course your massive HP and Sneak immunities make you the party* tank all of a sudden, so it's not completely true that your pets are doing all the rough stuff. Now that high Druidic Blood Frenzy is good, this will be even more true.

On the way up, you are nothing like a melee Druid, though. Well, I wasn't. Evocation focus and Earthquake/Sunburst spam - a status mage with better summons, basically.

Blood Frenzy's change may or may not be enough to burlify a Druid up to viable melee levels(I haven't used it since the tweak), but as buffertank you're a pale, pale shadow of a Cleric or Bard - really what you are doing is just hanging tough as another frontliner while your pets do most of the work, but as just mentioned, that's what Dragonshape is awesome at.

*'A party', also a valid description of a soloing Druid, will have to have some pretty damn chewy DwD, Barb, Epic Dodger, or somesuch in it before the Druid isn't the best tank.

25 druid, 4 fighter , 1 rogue would be a very adequate melee druid. (take your 4 fighter pre-epic, obviously). Your discipline will be iffy since you won't have a fighter level to max it with post-epic. Go tower shield and scimitar. Leave Dex and Cha at 8-10, take as much INT as you need for the skills you want. Raise your WIS to about 20 and send the rest down to STR. Pick up Extend Spell. You can GMW and Flame weapon your stuff, as well as use extended Aura of Vitality and Extended Blood Thirst. I'd -personally- recommend going for Imp Combat casting so you can Spam Heal, Mass Heal, and Earthquake mid fray like a badass without worrying about defensive casting, but opinions on that vary.

If you go 25 Druid 4 Fighter 1 Tumble you are better of forgoing four attacks and gaining six damage from Epic Weapon Spec and getting full discipline ranks. It costs you 1 AB but that bottom attack really isn't anything to write home about.

Or go 24 druid/5 fighter/1 rogue and get them both.

Basically the same as a melee Cleric one would think, just with the obvious restrictions on metal gear solids.

Some mildly built numbers:

Base 20
STR of 30 = 30
WF+EWF = 33
GMW = 38
Blood Frenzy = 43, or 44 if going pure(don't)
If Outside = 45

Unless you're going Mielikki for the metals, or there's still lore-wise nonmetallic armour and towershields, then you're getting stiffed down to 49AC, with Barkskin recovering one point for 50.

Both those are numbers are at the bottom end of the Acceptable AB/AC Scale for a meleer, buuuut, they *are* on it.

And it'd daft to ignore the presence of the two or three furry (or fiery/icy) friends coming along and the party buffs.

It's easy enough to get more STR and base attack onto the numbers above, although I think Mosh is onto something regarding the bottom attack when your top is already 10 less than a good AB build.

Yeah, it's viable, and if you've spare feats for Evo, then you can still do reasonable status maging, but I do suspect a person watching from outwith the party would find it very hard to tell the difference between a dedicate melee Druid and a caster Druid that changes from a spellslot/WIS gearset into an AC/STR fightin' armour and mucks in with the big hitters, if only to stay out of flatfoot.

25 is one of the landmark levels for your pet and some buffs.

Uberuce wrote:

25 is one of the landmark levels for your pet and some buffs.

This. Below 25 your pet isn't going to do much good, 25's the lowest viable point for it to be used in epic dungeons, naturally 30's going to have the killing machine with +6 Enhancement.

True. Companion combined with EMD though, 24 can still work.

Else you can go 25 druid/5 fighter. Still pretty nice. More street cred.

Drow Archer build, any suggestions?

Pulawski wrote:

Drow Archer build, any suggestions?

5 Bard 10 PM 13 AA

*Sits back*

Huh. Does it actually manage to get 4 attacks?

Pulawski wrote:

Huh. Does it actually manage to get 4 attacks?

4 bard = 3
6 pm = 3
10 aa = 10
=16
yeah it does

To be honest, I'd prefer to avoid dragonshape since it apparently only merges armor, which seems like a bit of a waste. Unless that doesn't really matter.

Is it customary for druids to get EMD/EDK along with their companion? Or does it depend on how many levels of druid your build has?

Last edited by Aeqvinox on Sat, Jan 11 2014, 11:13 AM, edited 1 time in total.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Pulawski wrote:

Drow Archer build, any suggestions?

5 Bard 10 PM 13 AA

*Sits back*

I friggin love this build. Anything unique that is not a wizard, ftr/wm or a shifter is wonderful stuff that people just don't play enough of. This one is probably not a cookie cutter archer, but there's so many flavors in this class mix it's ridiculous. It's very solid though, disregarding the CL 5.

I'll post my version of it, if it helps anyone (not that it's hard to build nor open for much optimization, but...):

STR 11
DEX 20 (28)
CON 12
WIS 08
INT 10 +2
CHA 11 +2

01: Bard(01): PBS
03: Bard(03): Toughness
04: PM(01):
05: PM(02):
06: PM(03): WF
09: PM(06): RS
10: Bard(04):
11: AA(01)
12: AA(02): BF
15: AA(05): IC
18: AA(08): CS
21: PM(07): EWF
24: PM(10): GreatDex I
25: AA(11)
27: Bard(05): EPr/*ESkF:Spot
28: AA(13):

Skills 131: Discipline 31, Tumble 31, UMD 14, Perform 8, *Spot 31, SC 14, 2 left.

HP 268
BAB 20
AB 50
AC 60

Aeqvinox wrote:

GreatPigeon wrote:

Pulawski wrote:

Drow Archer build, any suggestions?

5 Bard 10 PM 13 AA

*Sits back*

STR 12
DEX 20 (28)
CON 12
WIS 08
INT 10 +2
CHA 10 +2

You need 11 charisma at level 1, before drow comes into effect.

Oh yes, i knew there was a good reason for it, but couldn't readily recall what it was, so i changed it. Edited.

Silkelock wrote:

Is it customary for druids to get EMD/EDK along with their companion? Or does it depend on how many levels of druid your build has?

As I understand it, part of being a druid is about having an army of fuzzies. Probably less EDK, though.

Silkelock wrote:

Is it customary for druids to get EMD/EDK along with their companion? Or does it depend on how many levels of druid your build has?

If you have the option to take EMD on a build, do it ;p

kama vs unarmed on pure dex monk?
Pros and cons?

More dmg with unarmed, depending on how high of monk you go.
More mythal slots with kama.

I think that pretty much sums it up, haha. I could be wrong, though (I've only done unarmed monks).

Kamas are more damage and more mythal slots. Unarmed doesn't look silly.

Goldwater wrote:

Kamas are more damage and more mythal slots. Unarmed doesn't look silly.

Kama's free up the gloves slot. Kama's can be mythalled with 4 powers. Gloves only 3

How is kama more damage?

1d20 fists + 1d8 FW scroll + 5 gloves + 1d8 elemental on gloves= 8 to 41 damage twice per round

1d6 kama + 1d8 FW scrolls + 4 enhance + 1d8 on kama = 7 to 26 damage twice per round

Unless my figures are off (assuming non-epic, btw; +6 gloves and +5 kamas are epic).

But yeah, mythal slots are waaaay more abundant with kamas.

More attacks

Muspelkvist wrote:

Gloves only 3

Gloves get 4 slots too. Small weapons, armor and gloves all have 4.

Goldwater wrote:

More attacks

Muspelkvist wrote:

Gloves only 3

Gloves get 4 slots too. Small weapons, armor and gloves all have 4.

My bad

Last edited by IronAngel on Sat, Jan 11 2014, 22:24 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Mind that kamas need a three feat investment to dual wield effectively. But yeah, they're probably stronger. (Though they do need the to be buffed twice; GMW works on gloves these days, right?) They just look retarded.

Yeah you'd get 1 more, so dmg is 82 vs 78. I mean, item properties will count into it, I just used rough base figures.

IronAngel wrote:

Mind that kamas need a three feat investment to dual wield effectively.

Good point, forgot about that. Unarmed just needs Weapon Finesse. Kama's need Finesse, Ambidex, TWF, and ITWF for that extra attack.

The three feat investment includes improved two weapon fighting, for 2 extra attacks.

Kamas also get keened so they crit more, adding even more advantage to damage.

IronAngel wrote:

They just look retarded.

Amen.

Kamas sound better so far. More attacks, bigger crit range, more damage, more mythaling.. but it takes -2 ab and 3 feats. Or it takes 0 feats with Gloves of Balanced Hands.. but you don't get that extra attack from ITWF.

Either go full fist Monk20/[Stuff-to-get-Epic-Dodge], or make a Sneak-whoring ITWF Rogue/Ftr with Monk tossed in, also with Epic Dodge.

Other DEX-base Monk builds are available, but they aren't as good and are RPly the same, so...

I've been thinking more in a range of a pure monk. Dat speed + SR is sexy.

The thing is.. pre-epic I do not have many smart choices when it comes to feats with monk. Great Fort, Blindfight.. maybe Lightning Reflex.. and Toughness.. nothing special really. That's where the dual-wielding feats can kick in.

Circle Kick

That's mean, Mosh.

Improved Circle is teh stuff.

Can someone tell me the pro's and cons of monkey grip on this server? My character does not know anyone that uses this ability, and is not one to just up and ask a random passerby about it. I am thinking of taking the feat after sufficient RP to learn the technique... but I would like to know if it is worth it or not.

Blunt and silly answer: There are only Pros.

Serious answer: Most 2-handed weapons with a shield, even with penalties, end up being higher damage than a 1-handed with a shield. There's seldom any bad side to it besides DC loss.

Con: the awkward display when you activate it. That's it!

You deal somewhat less damage than you would if you were two-handing and what ever two flaws you pick, but otherwise, you get mythal slots out the wazoo, AC... Well, it's a little awkward. Thanks to the polymorph fix though, you don't lose your spellslots when going into MG. The only really drawback, aside from the DC buy-in, is that it's unwieldy to equip/unequip.

Actually, the cons are as it follows:

Awkward equip. You can tell somebody in PvP to hold the pants, but monsters aren't as likely to say "// Oh, cool. Go ahead"
2 penalties from dah list.
you gotta have another weapon two-handed, if you want to take the best out of it.
Takes some good time to learn, and you'll have to suffer your mere existence without a shield until then.

That's mostly the bad side of it.

What list of Cons? I could not find a list that tells me anything about monkey grip feat other than word of mouth.

Look in the requests forums under the request topic that Sune wrote!

Dead wrote:

I've been thinking more in a range of a pure monk. Dat speed + SR is sexy.

The thing is.. pre-epic I do not have many smart choices when it comes to feats with monk. Great Fort, Blindfight.. maybe Lightning Reflex.. and Toughness.. nothing special really. That's where the dual-wielding feats can kick in.

I did a pure Monk once. Went STR and Devcrit(the old instakill kind) and still had room for ISR II, I think.

Not having Epic Dodge on a DEXer makes me a very sad panda, and back in the days before Heal potion cooldown, you absolutely had to have something to finish a fight, so yep, went for Devcrit. Like every other STR-base Monk it was a dependable source of 40/hit that could happily be the frontliner against anything but epic bosses.

44SR is pretty tiresome even for a pure mage, and they rarely bother taking Spell Penetration feats.

Never really did much with him, RPly, so I dunno how well he'd actually have done.

On the other hand, when fighting a mage with spell-proof melee, you don't really need str based damage or Devcrit. If your goal is to focus on SR and pvping mages, especially if you're aiming to emulate a Mage Slayer from the Quintessential Monk sourcebooks, regular old dexmonk AC is going to hold up fine through PvE leveling and against mage critters and with dual kamas you'll do acceptable damage for a dexmonk.

Great Fort, Two-Weapon, Finesse, Ambi, WF: Kama, IC: kama, Improved Two-Weapon, Blindfight

Then EWF, Armor skin, Improved Spell Resistance x4

Epic dodge won't help when the maxed IGMS starts flying!

I'm thinking of a nasty biting Strongheart Hin.

11 Fighter/9 Ranger Pre-epic, 14 Fighter/9 Ranger/5 Rogue epic.

Dev Critting Hin using Two Handaxes.

Am I doing it right?

Seems the 'popular' dev-crit handaxe build (or really, ANY handaxe build...) has at least 7 WM to make use of the increased threat range & damage multiplier. 9 Ranger only gets you: 1) Free ITWF (that you could buy with Fighter bonus feats) or 2) Flavor...which can't be underestimated

Uberuce wrote:

Dead wrote:

I've been thinking more in a range of a pure monk. Dat speed + SR is sexy.

The thing is.. pre-epic I do not have many smart choices when it comes to feats with monk. Great Fort, Blindfight.. maybe Lightning Reflex.. and Toughness.. nothing special really. That's where the dual-wielding feats can kick in.

I did a pure Monk once. Went STR and Devcrit(the old instakill kind) and still had room for ISR II, I think.

Not having Epic Dodge on a DEXer makes me a very sad panda, and back in the days before Heal potion cooldown, you absolutely had to have something to finish a fight, so yep, went for Devcrit. Like every other STR-base Monk it was a dependable source of 40/hit that could happily be the frontliner against anything but epic bosses.

44SR is pretty tiresome even for a pure mage, and they rarely bother taking Spell Penetration feats.

Never really did much with him, RPly, so I dunno how well he'd actually have done.

pure mage is 30 + d20 to beat sr right?
so pure monk equals 11+level which is 41 right.
each sr gives plus 2 and... thats 45, then the caster has 25 percent chance to hit his spells

Noct'uul wrote:

Seems the 'popular' dev-crit handaxe build (or really, ANY handaxe build...) has at least 7 WM to make use of the increased threat range & damage multiplier. 9 Ranger only gets you: 1) Free ITWF (that you could buy with Fighter bonus feats) or 2) Flavor...which can't be underestimated

So how would 14 Fighter/7 WM/7 Rogue look? 4d6 Sneak attack with Uncanny Dodge II.

I'll admit, I can't build a WM to save my life, what am I looking at starting ability-wise and feat-wise?

Kamina wrote:

Noct'uul wrote:

Seems the 'popular' dev-crit handaxe build (or really, ANY handaxe build...) has at least 7 WM to make use of the increased threat range & damage multiplier. 9 Ranger only gets you: 1) Free ITWF (that you could buy with Fighter bonus feats) or 2) Flavor...which can't be underestimated

So how would 14 Fighter/7 WM/7 Rogue look? 4d6 Sneak attack with Uncanny Dodge II.

I'll admit, I can't build a WM to save my life, what am I looking at starting ability-wise and feat-wise?

Hell do you stop at 7 rogue. go 13 rogue and net epic dodge instead.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Kamina wrote:

Noct'uul wrote:

Seems the 'popular' dev-crit handaxe build (or really, ANY handaxe build...) has at least 7 WM to make use of the increased threat range & damage multiplier. 9 Ranger only gets you: 1) Free ITWF (that you could buy with Fighter bonus feats) or 2) Flavor...which can't be underestimated

So how would 14 Fighter/7 WM/7 Rogue look? 4d6 Sneak attack with Uncanny Dodge II.

I'll admit, I can't build a WM to save my life, what am I looking at starting ability-wise and feat-wise?

Hell do you stop at 7 rogue. go 13 rogue and net epic dodge instead.

Well, I'd have to go something along the lines of 7 Fighter/7 WM/6 Rogue pre-epic, 8 Fighter/7 WM/13 Rogue epic. Is that going to work out?

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