AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

No, it doesn't stack.

and if the AC vs alignment or race or class is +5 i still get 1 AC bonus on top if my regular AC on armor is +4?

This is only tangentially a build question, but I didn't think it deserved its own thread.

Does Bioware-standard True Seeing defeat blindness? i.e., if my SD somehow manages to blind your pseudodragon familiar, will it still be able to see normally (not with the screen blacked out, I mean) and spot me freely through my stealth?

EDIT to add that yes, I did RTFW, and I see that Bioware TS does allegedly beat blindness. I'm asking just to confirm, since I've been told that lots of things related to darkness and blindness are massively glitchy.

So. Trying to make a melee cleric and for the life of me I cannot get it work work right! At least, I think so. Maybe I am doing it right after all?
Human, Cleric 25/Fighter 4/Rogue 1

I can see advantages of taking the fighter levels in both pre and post epic levels. Pre epic nets four APR and a discipline dump (Bard is a no-go for this, btw, -maybe- Monk) yet post epic nets the ability to snag Great Wisdom (for ending 24 WIS), Epic Weapon Focus, and Epic Weap Spec. However, not quite sure if that matters. So here's the build with pre and post epic feats:

Abilities
STR: 13
DEX: 10
CON: 10
WIS: 16 (24)
INT: 14
CHA: 13

Skills
Concentration 33(33), Discipline 33(44), Heal 17(24), Spellcraft 28(30), Tumble 30(30), UMD 30(31)

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Cleric(1): Power Attack, Divine Might
02: Cleric(2)
03: Cleric(3): Weapon Focus
04: Cleric(4): WIS+1, (WIS=17)
05: Cleric(5)
06: Cleric(6): Extend Spell
07: Cleric(7)
08: Cleric(8): WIS+1, (WIS=18)
09: Cleric(9): Maximize Spell
10: Cleric(10)
11: Cleric(11)
12: Cleric(12): WIS+1, Divine Shield, (WIS=19)
13: Cleric(13)
14: Cleric(14)
15: Cleric(15): Knockdown
16: Cleric(16): WIS+1, (WIS=20)

FIGHTER PRE EPIC FEATS

Code:

Fighter(1): Improved Critical
Fighter(2): Blind Fight
Fighter(3)
Fighter(4): WIS+1, Weapon Specialization, (WIS=21)
Cleric(17): Epic Weapon Focus
Cleric(18)
Cleric(19)
Cleric(20): WIS+1, Armor Skin, (WIS=22)
Cleric(21)
Cleric(22)
Cleric(23): Epic Spell: Mummy Dust, Great Wisdom I, (WIS=23)
Cleric(24): WIS+1, (WIS=24)
Rogue(1)
Cleric(25)

FIGHTER POST EPIC FEATS

Code:

Cleric(17)
Cleric(18): Blind Fight
Cleric(19)
Cleric(20): WIS+1, (WIS=21)
Cleric(21): Epic Spell: Mummy Dust
Fighter(1): Epic Weapon Focus
Fighter(2): Improved Critical
Fighter(3): WIS+1, Armor Skin, (WIS=22)
Cleric(22)
Cleric(23): Great Wisdom I, (WIS=23)
Cleric(24): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline
Cleric(25): WIS+1, (WIS=24)
Rogue(1)
Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization, Epic Weapon Specialization

In the Post Epic Fighter section, I added ESF: Disc because I was at a loss for what else to take (Epic Prow, perhaps?).
T'would this be the general layout for a melee cleric? Looking for a mix of Dispel immunity, awesome bonus slots, and enough BAB in the end.
As far as I know, Divine Power will offset the lack of STR (though maxed Bull's does as well, plus gear), same with CHA.

I should also state that the UMD is just base what I put in a build concept. I can easily lower it to 15/20 and be happy (or drop it entirely for Monk). I do believe the char I am thinking about will be LG/LN anyways sooooo Monk would work. And make more sense with a cleric in general.
And for the stats, I'm not a fan of min/maxing (unless we're talking a char that's supposed to be a jerk so he's struck with 8 CHA for dickery purposes), so get those 8 DEX's outta here.

edit: Also considering dunking some WIS for more CON and such, say
STR: 13
DEX: 10
CON: 12
WIS: 15 (22)
INT: 14
CHA: 13

Allows me to get rid of Great WIS (unless I drop twp epics for Great WIS x2), gains +30 HP, and an extra epic feat.

Take the three fighter pre-epic and set yourself up for WS and EWS then all you need to do for maximum cheese is take the last fighter level on a feat level I.E 21,24,27,30 and you can use the first feat for weapon spec and the second the fighters one for epic spec.

Well yes, though that defeats the purpose of trying for 4 APR. At that point, might as well take all the Fighter levels in post epic. Ends up with the same BAB in the end as well ;D

Well I can see your problem right there.

At end you want

14 STR
10 DEX
10 CON
14 INT
20 WIS
16 CHA

On a Melee Cleric anything over 20 Wisdom is considered pointless.

Mmkay that's what I was wondering, if WIS should be over 20 or not. I was guessing 20.

What about this for the added HP? +30 before equip/buffs is always nice.
STR: 14
DEX: 10
CON: 12
WIS: 15 (20)
INT: 14
CHA: 14

Also, I took the liberty to decide on the build:

Cleric 25/Fighter 4/Monk 1

Power Attack, Divine Might, Weapon Focus, Extend Spell, Maximize Spell, Divine Shield, Knockdown, Improved Critical, Great Fortitude, Blind Fight, Weapon Specialization, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Fortitude, Epic Mummy Dust, Epic Skill Focus: Discipline

Concentration 33(34), Craft Armor 9(11), Craft Weapon 9(11), Discipline 33(45), Heal 25(30), Spellcraft 28(30), Tumble 30(30)

ESF: Disc for the sexy resistance to Knockdown, and Great/Epic Fort for extra DevCrit nigh-immunity
I think that covers it, ends with this as well:
Hitpoints: 278
Skillpoints: 167
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 26/21/11
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +6
BAB: 21

Bumpin my build q.
How's it looking?

Would a build that never reaches epic in a class but nets epic dodge be decent? The idea behind the character can be summed up by the duel in the series Game of Thrones for Tirion's life. The winner fights a man dressed in plate with a shield and wins via moving out of the way and according to the onlookers less than honorably. If more specifics for the build are required I wouldn't mind pming it to someone. I just don't know who would be best to pm it to. The idea isn't to have a super powerful character that can not die and can kill everyone. It is more about a girl who is very hard to hit that can do enough.damage she isn't a liability when not forced to.tank. The classes involved would be rogue for epic dodge dighter for background and divine champion to give her life a depth of purpose.

Edit: Sorry for errors. English isn't my first language and I am using my phone to post.

You'll do just fine. Many great builds don't go epic in a single class, due to multiclassing.

what would be a good spread for a character with shado dancer 6 and maximum wiz/sorc possible?

23 arcane/1rogue 6/sd.

as i suspected, thank you muchly

Lizzie wrote:

[...]Does Bioware-standard True Seeing defeat blindness?[...]

There's no way to completely annul the blind effect, so it is perhaps one of the most reliable ways in which to mar your enemy. Blind is one of the two effects laid by Darkness.

That said, no TS doesn't defeat blindness; the screen is still blacked out, but as with the True seeing spell, you can still target red glowy things in darkness.

On Arcane23/Rogue1/SD6: Bard is plainly better because of Discipline and it fits the theme just as nicely.

I've searched these forums all around is there anywhere to see class progression and abilities for knight commander?

Hasn't been updated on the forum yet, I think. Everything essential is shown in the IG class description when deciding on your level, though.

Naivatkal wrote:

Mmkay that's what I was wondering, if WIS should be over 20 or not. I was guessing 20.

What about this for the added HP? +30 before equip/buffs is always nice.
STR: 14
DEX: 10
CON: 12
WIS: 15 (20)
INT: 14
CHA: 14

Also, I took the liberty to decide on the build:

Cleric 25/Fighter 4/Monk 1

Power Attack, Divine Might, Weapon Focus, Extend Spell, Maximize Spell, Divine Shield, Knockdown, Improved Critical, Great Fortitude, Blind Fight, Weapon Specialization, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Fortitude, Epic Mummy Dust, Epic Skill Focus: Discipline

Concentration 33(34), Craft Armor 9(11), Craft Weapon 9(11), Discipline 33(45), Heal 25(30), Spellcraft 28(30), Tumble 30(30)

ESF: Disc for the sexy resistance to Knockdown, and Great/Epic Fort for extra DevCrit nigh-immunity
I think that covers it, ends with this as well:
Hitpoints: 278
Skillpoints: 167
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 26/21/11
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +6
BAB: 21

le bump for learnins

Say what's that standard 16 weapon master 12 fighter 2 rogue build I was told to ask about?
I need to know the proper line up, was thinking of using it for a shortsword human build

ive dropped the idea of using arcane with SD, instead id like more of a str&dex melee build
i was thinking something along the lines of 6sd/1rog/23ftr
but i really dont know how to optimize this. i basically do not want any more than 6 sd and i would like as much dmg output as it can, which is why i figured a lot of ftw for the Ab? is this even close?

I'd go heavy on the rogue for SA and nab IKD at the same time. Add enough fighter for 4APR and dual wield feats if that's the angle you wanna go.

hadeismetirion wrote:

Say what's that standard 16 weapon master 12 fighter 2 rogue build I was told to ask about?
I need to know the proper line up, was thinking of using it for a shortsword human build

Here's one I cribbed from the previous build advice thread, but haven't gotten around to pondering yet.

1 Ftr 1 Weapon Focus, Powerattack, Dodge
2 Ftr 2 Mobility
3 Ftr 3 Expertise
4 Ftr 4 Spring Attack
5 Ftr 5
6 Ftr 6 Whirlwind Attack
7 Ftr 7
8 WM 1
9 WM 2 Improved Critical
10 WM 3
11 WM 4
12 WM 5 Cleave
13 WM 6
14 WM 7
15 WM 8 Great Cleave
16 WM 9
17 Ftr 8 Weapon Spec
18 Ftr 9 Blindfight
19 Ftr 10 Knockdown
20 Ftr 11
21 Ftr 12 Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Spec
22 WM 10
23 WM 11
24 WM 12 Great STR 1
25 WM 13 Overwhelming Crit
26 WM 14
27 WM 15 Epic Prowess
28 Rogue 1 (Tumble / UMD dump)
29 Rogue 2
30 WM 16 Devastating Crit, Armor Skin

@naivatkal

Firefox crashed and I'm drunk and deleted 4 paragraphs of ranting about what you did, so I'll try to just put it as clear as possible:

-Drop dex to 8 and con to 10 to boost cha to 16 so it ends at 18 and you can buff to get +10 AC/bonus damage. (Personal preference)
-Power Attack serves no purpose at all, replace it with IKD which you really really really really need.
-Personal preference again, but I'd drop Great Fortitude for Extra Turning or something like that.
-Epic Mummy Dust is going to be really lame without Epic Spell Focus. Be content with Summon IX or Gate and get a nuke instead (or Epic Prowess, trollface.jpg), or fit in Spell/Epic Spell Focus so your Epic Mummy Dust outlasts Bob Dole.
-It's basically 102% certain with a 2% margin of error you aren't taking monk for the Unarmed AB (wisdom to AC bonus is at level 3 on Amia), so replace it with rogue at say level 29 or so for a skill dump and access to the almighty UMD.
-I'm only counting 4 epic feats on your list, and there should be (?) 5. That'd probably make room for your stuff and things.
-You should also be at 11 feats pre-epic, unless you're not going human. That'd probably make room for Spell Focus at the end of the day.

That being said, you reminded me of my desire for a melee caster, and cleric26/monk3/rogue1 seems to fit just fine. I'm just wondering if anyone can clarify if Divine Power always boosts your strength to 18 base regardless of buffs, or if you simply get nothing out of it should your buffs and gear pass 18 strength.

Arcadence wrote:

-Power Attack serves no purpose at all, replace it with IKD which you really really really really need.

Power Attack is required for Divine Might/Shield

Arcadence wrote:

-Epic Mummy Dust is going to be really lame without Epic Spell Focus. Be content with Summon IX or Gate and get a nuke instead (or Epic Prowess, trollface.jpg), or fit in Spell/Epic Spell Focus so your Epic Mummy Dust outlasts Bob Dole.

Mummy Dust is great even without epic spell focus. My level 23 cleric uses it and it lasts plenty long enough.

If you buff correctly you can get it to increase to 18 then add +5 from maxed strength and then add +4 from Aura of Vitality. It only lasts for aslong as that first casting of Divine Power Lasts for.

Also yeah pretty much ignore everything Arcadence wrote because its. . .ugly.

.Right. So.

Should have mentioned my original stipulations, no 8 DEX and such. Oh well, no big deal. He's not supposed to be uber badass cleric, he will be badass enough without super tweaking the stats lol

Also, I was wondering about the Divine Power thing, too.
So basically don't put STR on gear, use Divine Power first, then other STR boosters? Or does Divine Power only care about base STR (ie ignores gear so if you have +7 STR gear you end up with 25 STR). And does the STR bonus count towards the +12 max? Don't see NWN wiki stating it does or doesn't.

All in all, I think the build is fine as is as far as for what I'm going for.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Power Attack is required for Divine Might/Shield

At least I can blame beer on that one.

Quote:

Mummy Dust is great even without epic spell focus. My level 23 cleric uses it and it lasts plenty long enough.

I remember it lasting through about five mob packs before expiring, but that was a year ago.

Quote:

Also yeah pretty much ignore everything Arcadence wrote because its. . .ugly.

We can't all be pretty, but I don't have a real excuse for the Power Attack mistake. :roll:

That's what I thought on Divine Power though, thanks for confirming it.

Last edited by tsukasa1991 on Sun, Oct 09 2011, 5:15 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

I'd go heavy on the rogue for SA and nab IKD at the same time. Add enough fighter for 4APR and dual wield feats if that's the angle you wanna go.

im looking for less of a hips spamming ftr as i want a meleer with the ability to sneak away/ shadow away from battle for dramatic effect.
i should elaberate my idea, im planning on making a desert warrior, someone who wears loose clothes and is used to harsh climates where you dont always have the option to win. think arabian knights in look. i want to be using at least one scimitar, though i may take up two if feats allow (for authenticity to the whole arabian idea) and or a large shield. im not too worried for AC though i dont want to die as soon as i get into melee obv. but i would like a high enough AB i can hit most things. i do NOT want to rely on spamming hips to fish for hits, that is the ultimate in lame to me. i know you cant finesse a scimitar but im not too interested in light weapons, he should be more about strength and big cuting edges.
that said, i was looking at ranger, and it looks like if i just went ranger/sd with something tossed in, i should be better suited than fighter, no?

edit : should i throw in 4ftr to get weapon spec?

Arcadence wrote:

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Quote:

Mummy Dust is great even without epic spell focus. My level 23 cleric uses it and it lasts plenty long enough.

I remember it lasting through about five mob packs before expiring, but that was a year ago.

It's at least turns per level, and it's hours per level with epic focus. You need at least 21 caster levels to take it, so it's a 21 minute summon at the very minimum.

You might be thinking of Dragon Knight, which is rounds per level without epic conjuration.

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

i know you cant finesse a scimitar but im not too interested in light weapons, he should be more about strength and big cuting edges.

You cannot finesse scimitars, you're mixing it up with rapier.

Is there any difference between 9 DD and 10 DD?

Really? Look here first!

Also, check this for reference. There is a very stark difference between the two, RP-wise but especially Build-wise. I assume you're looking at the latter, considering you put it in this thread.

(That isn't to say they need to be mutually exclusive, of course. The difference is just explained differently for either one.)

On the rare chance my computer actually decided to load NWNwiki, thanks! Im assuming a character definately does not become a half dragon though :lol:

According to Amia lore, that's true. Getting the "Half-Dragon" ability doesn't actually turn you into a biological half-dragon, it just turns you into a really dedicated RDD.

They don't become a true half-dragon. It's not just Amia lore. They only gain the half-dragon template, which means they have all the abilities of a half-dragon. But as has been said a million times before, nothing goes back in time and turns your character's mother into a dragon.

Naivatkal, drop Great Fort for IKD and Epic Fort for Armour Skin.

This is less build-y and more mechanical, but is there a way to set the changes on the Book of Transmutation as permanent, or at least only have them revert back when they're done manually?

Falling Spider wrote:

This is less build-y and more mechanical, but is there a way to set the changes on the Book of Transmutation as permanent, or at least only have them revert back when they're done manually?

Nope. Resets upon server reset :/

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Naivatkal, drop Great Fort for IKD and Epic Fort for Armour Skin.

... I forgot to list Armor Skin. Safe to say I have that haha

And is IKD really that much better than the extra fort? Guessing so, just checking.

It opens up being able to knock over huge monsters and actually gives you a bonus to your roll against discipline on other medium-size critters (and pcs). +4 and being able to knock over giants doesn't seem like much, but you'll feel it as you go higher in levels (I know I do).

Wisely spoken. Definitely worth +2 scrubby Fort. I'd even contemplate on having Greater Ruin into the mix.

Guys, Do you know if there's been a change to the Cooldown of the Cleric 'Prayer' ? Is it still once every IRL Hour?

Just checked. It's not working as it should, at least. I think. Chris, go fix.

I think you have the wrong guy there. It'll be fixed later on today, anyway.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

I think you have the wrong guy there. It'll be fixed later on today, anyway.

Yeah OK.
But will it still be 1 IRL hour cooldown?

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Wisely spoken. Definitely worth +2 scrubby Fort. I'd even contemplate on having Greater Ruin into the mix.

I was considering that, I'll see what I can come up with.
Greater Ruin, I mean

just a question, i heard something about the unique spells on another topic.. do you need to take them on level up to be able to utilize them for custom spells? or what, ive never really understood what those placeholder slots were for but in the case that theyre needed that will greatly aid me when i rebuild

Two questions, three actually. Dex Monk with high 60s AC and epic dodge.

1) Does this character need discipline? With low Str and no spare feats its an awfully long road to climb and I'm not sure he'll be getting hit much at all. I remember my fully buffed hin paladin sparring Ukre and barely hitting him ever, even without the AB penalty from spamming KD.

2) Will maxing out parry have any uses for him?

3). Are the two questions above related?

Thanks

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