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Cleric
https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=88304		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  robbi320 [ Thu, Jan 26 2017, 13:28 PM ]
Post subject:  Cleric
Hi,
I've looked through the build forums, but I seem to lack an idea for feats. In general, I've always been a bit unsure of feats, at least pre-epic ones. Though, here, I'm not even sure about epic ones.
If I want to make a melee Cleric, How do I do that? 20 Wis? What if I want some KC in there? What feats would I want? It's a good Cleric, if that makes a difference, not sure about deity yet, so I'll keep that free.
Any hints, anyone?
Author:  Tarnus [ Thu, Jan 26 2017, 13:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Cleric
Yup, if you go for battle cleric you want 20 wis and a minimum of 13 strength and charisma (generally want to end up higher there obviously) for divine might and divine shield (which requires in turn Power Attack), you'll want Maximize and Extend spell. You'll want Blindfight and if you go KC you'll need SF Discipline and toughness and at this point (assuming a human btw), you don't have any pre-epic feats left anyway since neither cleric nor KC offer bonus feats, leaving that point moot.

Edit: As for epic feats, you'll want a mummy dust summon, armor skin, Greater Ruin (if you can fit it in), prolly one Greater ability feat since with most setups one will be uneven, an epic weapon focus and Epic Prowess and that will probably already have filled up all slots I think, with the most common setups.
Author:  robbi320 [ Thu, Jan 26 2017, 14:12 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Cleric
Ok, thanks. Huh. Why do feats always kill me... Then 24 Cleric, 5 KC and one dump? So, probably a tumble-dump, since KC gives me discipline.

Stats... On a human, this kind of works. 14Str, 8Dex, 12Con, 16Wis, 12Int, 14Cha. Leveled to 18 Str and 20 Wis. That is four skills... Will I need to re-buff in combat, or can I give up concentration? If yes, that's spellcraft, tumble, discipline and heal. If I take heal away, I'd probably go 14 Con, but I'm not sure. Heal mostly is because that might be a focal point of this character.

I've noticed a (possible) problem with the feats you gave me: Epic Weapon Focus. I need a normal one first. I have five epic feats open, don't have normal weapon focus. I could take fighter intead of a tumbledump, raising my AB, but lowering my AC by three. Worth it?

So feats would be EMD, Armor Skin, Greater Ability, and now two of these three: Greater Ruin, EWS (+ fighter instead of tumbledump, -3 AC) and Epic Prowess.
Which of the three should I drop?

All in all, does that seem good enough? That makes gearing seem pretty easy, since I get a free +5 on weapons, deflection, armour and shields, amulet if I powerbuild as much as going for Barkskin. Wow, saying that seems crazy... It's like EMA, without needing a feat...
Author:  Tarnus [ Thu, Jan 26 2017, 14:28 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Cleric
Oh true, forgot about that. Yeah you'd need that and would have to get rid of one other feat to fit that in:

Class Race Cleric(24), Purple Dragon Knight(5), Rogue(1), Human

Abilies STR: 14 (15)
DEX: 8
CON: 12
WIS: 16 (20)
INT: 12
CHA: 14 (16)

30 Human: (Quick to Master)
Cl 01: Cleric(1): Extend Spell, Power Attack
Cl 02: Cleric(2)
Cl 03: Cleric(3): Divine Shield
Cl 04: Cleric(4): WIS+1, (WIS=17)
Cl 05: Cleric(5)
Cl 06: Cleric(6): Divine Might
Cl 07: Cleric(7)
Cl 08: Cleric(8): WIS+1, (WIS=18)
Cl 09: Cleric(9): Maximize Spell
Cl 10: Cleric(10)
Cl 11: Cleric(11)
Cl 12: Cleric(12): WIS+1, Toughness, (WIS=19)
Cl 13: Cleric(13)
Cl 14: Cleric(14)
Cl 15: Cleric(15): Skill Focus: Discipline
PDK 16: Purple Dragon Knight(1): WIS+1, (WIS=20)
PDK 17: Purple Dragon Knight(2)
PDK 18: Purple Dragon Knight(3): Weapon Focus: Longsword
PDK 19: Purple Dragon Knight(4)
Cl 20: Cleric(16): CHA+1, (CHA=15)
Cl 21: Cleric(17): Epic Weapon Focus: Longsword
Cl 22: Cleric(18)
Cl 23: Cleric(19)
Cl 24: Cleric(20): CHA+1, Blind Fight, (CHA=16)
Cl 25: Cleric(21)
Cl 26: Cleric(22)
Cl 27: Cleric(23): Armor Skin, Mummy Dust
Ro 28: Rogue(1): STR+1, (STR=15)
PDK 29: Purple Dragon Knight(5)
Cl 30: Cleric(24): Greater Ruin

Skills Concentration 14(15), Discipline 32(37), Lore 4(5), Persuade 4(7), Spellcraft 33(34), Taunt 4(7), Tumble 30(29), UMD 5(8)


Cl 01: Discipline(2), Lore(4), Persuade(4), Taunt(2),
Cl 02: Spellcraft(4),
Cl 03: Discipline(1), Taunt(1),
Cl 04: Spellcraft(3), Save(1),
Cl 05: Discipline(1), Spellcraft(1), Taunt(1),
Cl 06: Concentration(3), Spellcraft(1),
Cl 07: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Spellcraft(1),
Cl 08: Concentration(3), Spellcraft(1),
Cl 09: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Spellcraft(1),
Cl 10: Concentration(3), Spellcraft(1),
Cl 11: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Spellcraft(1),
Cl 12: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(2),
Cl 13: Discipline(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(3),
Cl 14: Spellcraft(1), Save(6),
Cl 15: Spellcraft(1), Save(9),
PDK 16: Discipline(11), Save(2),
PDK 17: Discipline(1), Save(5),
PDK 18: Discipline(1), Save(8),
PDK 19: Discipline(1), Save(11),
Cl 20: Spellcraft(5), Save(10),
Cl 21: Spellcraft(1), Save(13),
Cl 22: Spellcraft(1), Save(16),
Cl 23: Spellcraft(1), Save(19),
Cl 24: Spellcraft(1), Save(22),
Cl 25: Spellcraft(1), Save(25),
Cl 26: Spellcraft(1), Save(28),
Cl 27: Spellcraft(1), Save(31),
Ro 28: Tumble(30), UMD(5), Save(6),
PDK 29: Discipline(10),
Cl 30: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(3),

Something like this should work well enough imo. (just replace PDK with KC). Bit unhappy with the uneven strength, could put a point into Dex instead and use Boots of the Broken One +5 and call it a day on that front.
Author:  lilmarcat [ Thu, Jan 26 2017, 14:43 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Cleric
23 Cleric is the usual go to level for a melee cleric. Ending on 20 WIS and 18 CHA for Divine shield/might.
Some common class combinations are 23Cleric/5KC/2Rogue, 23Cleric/6DC/1Monk or 23Cleric/6Fighter/1Rogue.
Need 4 full BAB levels (Fighter/DC/KC) pre-epic to reach 4 attacks per round.

23 Cleric is the bonus feat level. 2 Rogue gives Evasion which is a life saver.
Author:  robbi320 [ Thu, Jan 26 2017, 14:50 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Cleric
2 Rogue in spite of it making me dispelable? I mean, a Cleric seems like a terrible meleer to me, for some reason... At least without his buffs. (I get that 5% isn't a big deal, but is it worth it?)

Edit: Also, how do I get 18 Cha and 20 Wis and still have decent Str? I mean, yes, Divine Power gets me to 18, but it only raises my Str, not my base Str. So my maximum Str will still be pretty low.
Author:  robbi320 [ Thu, Jan 26 2017, 15:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Cleric
Ok, did the math. My AB is 44+Str bonus. 16 BAB, 5 EpicBAB, 3 WF+EWF, +20 AB cap. So If I only have 13 Str, I'd have a fully buffed AB of 51. I think (?) that's good enough. But I'd lose 33 skill points, or 30 hp.
Author:  lilmarcat [ Thu, Jan 26 2017, 16:00 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Cleric
If your not set on KC, heres a pretty general build that can be adapted to any god. You can take the fighter levels earlier if you wish, especially if your after a Martial weapon early.
Aasimar can solve a lot of your stat issues, especially as a Good cleric.
Note - Human Aasimars still get their Human bonus feat.

Stats - These are before Aasimar adds +2WIS and +2CHA.
STR: 14 (18)
Dex: 8
CON: 10
WIS: 16 (20)
INT: 12
CHA: 15 (18)

1 Cleric (1): Power attack, Toughness
2 Cleric
3 Cleric: Divine Might
4 Cleric
5 Cleric
6 Cleric: Divine Shield
7 Cleric
8 Cleric
9 Cleric: Extend spell
10 Cleric
11 Cleric
12 Cleric: Max spell
13 Cleric
14 Cleric
15 Cleric: Spell Focus Conjuration
16 Cleric (16)
17 Fighter (1): Weapon Focus
18 Fighter (2): Improved Crit, Greater Spell Focus
19 Fighter (3)
20 Fighter (4): Blind Fight
21 Rogue (1): Armor Skin
22 Cleric (17)
23 Cleric
24 Cleric : Epic Weapon Focus
25 Cleric
26 Cleric
27 Cleric: Epic Mummy Dust/Dragon Knight
28 Cleric (23): Epic Spell Focus
29 Rogue (2)

Obtainable AC - 70. (+5 gear/ 1 dex mod / +10 Divine shield / Mage armor / Haste)
AB - 21 BAB +3 Weapon Focus + 10 STR + 5 Enhancement = 39B. 15 temp AB remaining.
Divine favor = 5AB. Divine Power = 4AB. Aid=1AB. Prayer=1AB. Bless=1AB. Battletide =2 AB. Total: 19 out of 20 max bonus AB for 53AB.

Discipline: 23 base + 10STR mod + 5 Shield of the Triad + 30 Epic discipline gloves + 5 Djinn helm = 73. More then enough if your after that. 83 would be max obtainable.

Greater Dispel Magic - 5% is not really worth worrying much about. Most dispels come from Mages using Mords. Abjuration can make Greater Dispel viable, but thats a very rare focus.

Edit - Derped and forgot my Human bonus feat. Toughness makes up for the low HP or take Knockdown to help deal with casters.
Author:  thunderbrush [ Thu, Jan 26 2017, 16:16 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Cleric
Domains: All important. For a melee cleric it is absolutely necessary you take a Deity that supports either the Trickery (improved invis) or Travel (haste) domains. Some Deities, like Oghma support both. If you only want to choose one, I suggest Travel. To be honest a well equipped Melee Cleric can crush the abyss, however in PVP you will suffer to anyone with the means to dispel you. Additionally at any time someone doesn't want to give you three minutes or so to buff. You will also have to explain IC that you suck as a cleric, as almost all of your spells are for you and your summon. All this aside its a fun class to play and very self sufficient in a pve environment.
Author:  Commie [ Thu, Jan 26 2017, 19:24 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Cleric
robbi320 wrote:
Ok, did the math. My AB is 44+Str bonus. 16 BAB, 5 EpicBAB, 3 WF+EWF, +20 AB cap. So If I only have 13 Str, I'd have a fully buffed AB of 51. I think (?) that's good enough. But I'd lose 33 skill points, or 30 hp.


Consider comparing that to a wisdom cleric who uses divine power.

in my opinion 18/19 wis starting and pure wis after that is so much better a 'melee' cleric isn't really viable, you give up so much, and things like auto-quicken 3 and lobbing 2 firestorms/earthquakes a round with a high is amazing, not to mention you're only a few AB behind the pure melee version.
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