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The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
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Author:  Opustus [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 2:29 AM ]
Post subject:  The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Thumper, Flower, quick! There's a new Bambi in the block. Look how graceful he is, look how deft his fingers and sharp his eyes! He is the purdiest thung we've ever seen!

My never figuring out how to play an elf spawned the most execrable humour relief of a character I've ever played. So, to atone for my many sins, I pass this on to more able hands: The Elfiest AA, featuring Master Scout. It is simply a build too good to forget because it's a perfect match for my idiotic understanding of the elf au naturel.

Level spread: Bard6/MS5/AA19, pre-epic Bard6/MS4/AA10; delay MS5 to level 27 at least for Tumble30 dump.

Abilities are pretty lax. Choose as you damn please, but below are some numbers for reference.
STR -
DEX max
CON -
INT -
WIS -
CHA 12 for level 2 spells*

Feats are lax as well, though I will list some of them here for the prerequisites into the two PRCs and to optimise your levelling.
Lv1: PB
Lv3: Sf:Spot
Lv6: Sf:Listen
Lv7, MS1 bonus feat: to taste
Lv9: Wf:Longbow or shortbow
Lv12: Rapid shot
Lv15: Improved critical
Lv18: Called shot

Epic feats get a bit tricky. Opt for Epic Weapon Focus and Epic Prowess on your bonus AA feats to avoid having to pick something unwanted on them. Spend the bonus MS feat on Great Dexterity to even your DEX modifier if needed, and if not, do what you want with it. One of the general epic feats should be Blindfight, otherwise you will be missing 25% more, and the truest joy of playing AA is to hit high-AC stuff for once in your life. Spend the remaining feats at your most wisest discretion. If a total n00b, it is advisable to ask the thread for advice.

Vital skills (max unless otherwise stated): Discipline, Tumble30, UMD9, Perform11
Good skills (max unless otherwise stated): Spot, Hide, Move silently, Set trap**, Disable trap**, HealX
You need rudimentary calculation to figure out how many skills you will have in your end build. Refer to nwn.wikia.com for the values of each class.

And there you have it! Vanilla endgame stress-free AC should be about 50 and AB about 60. I tried to keep this guide as concise as I could, but ask away if you are a shameful n00b and can't handle all the numbers or enjoy the soapboxing of haughty powerbuilders. Mechanically, AA is for a player who appreciates cleverness in battle, mechanical finesse, and who suffers from a mild OCD to help keep track of the perennially waning arrows. AAs are in general bothersome to play because you need to count your arrows all the time and it's difficult to solo without a burly summon or companion to soak in the damage. MS grants you some survivability: Confusion grenades and Movement speed bonus add to your tools of keep your enemies at bay; Uncanny dodge retains your DEX AC when fleeing (or kiting) the enemy. A nice merit of the build is that you can build it on any race without suffering the XP penalty, which saves you a world of bother if you're not into mindless grind.

Followup ideas: You can use the kernel for more bard or go Ranger5/Bard6/AA19 or Ranger5/Bard7/AA18 for Aragorn references. Let's hunt some orc!


*Level 2 spells are handy to have in the bag. Self-castable Silence, Darkness and Ultravision *drool*! Ability buffs are better drunk off a potion.
**The only usable traps you can disable and, thus, recover are the Deadly Acid Blobs. They have a DC of 35 to set (and disable) and you probably shouldn't set traps amid combat (you are more deadly shooting away), so you only really need 1-2 rank in Set trap: Take20 + 1-2 rank + 14-13DEX = 35. If you want to have the versatility to set traps in combat, take 19 more into Set trap or 9 more and chug Rogue's Cunning for 100% success rate. There is easily accessible gear for disabling traps, but you can invest in it to spare the hassle.
Author:  Commie [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 2:44 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Called shot is a waste as it's vs discipline, and there's a lot of misinformation (it does not ignore epic dodge!) about it, so get blind fight pre-epic. As much 'flavor' as the feat has, it's really trash.

Keep in mind due to your low bard level you're going to be super duper easy to dispel. Fire giants and other dispelling mobs are going to wreck ya, not to mention other players.

Additionally I do not believe you can use MS essences on a bow.

And your AC is going to be very, very low.

Anything with 19 AA is going to be functional, but personally I'm not a fan of MS/AA. I believe there are much better AA builds.
Author:  Opustus [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 2:54 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Well, you can't blame a girl for trying to make it in this big hazy concrete jungle they call Amia, the land of fully optimized builds! Best just squeeze flavour down the drain, everything is easier to swallow in the form of a pill. We even got a Djinni to approve every powerhugnry, numberchasing request so we never need to get creative again and +1 to gear is the sustained norm.

Called shot isn't a waste, it's awesome! You can kite enemies with your whopping AB of 60 something and shame people for gearing poorly! Your AC isn't VERY VERY low, it's mediocre. With vanilla gear you can reach: Base 10 + Deflect 4 + Natural 4 + Armor 4 + Dodge 5 + DEX 14 + Tumble 6 + Armorskin 2 = 49 AC, which isn't piss poor. You can solo stuff if you invest in it and with a party, what does it matter?

You are correct, one does not simply use the essences on bows.
Author:  Commie [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 3:03 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Opustus wrote:
Well, you can't blame a girl for trying to make it in this big hazy concrete jungle they call Amia, the land of fully optimized builds! Best just squeeze flavour down the drain, everything is easier to swallow in the form of a pill. We even got a Djinni to approve every powerhugnry, numberchasing request so we never need to get creative again and +1 to gear is the sustained norm.

Called shot isn't a waste, it's awesome! You can kite enemies with your whopping AB of 60 something and shame people for gearing poorly! Your AC isn't VERY VERY low, it's mediocre. With vanilla gear you can reach: Base 10 + Deflect 4 + Natural 4 + Armor 4 + Dodge 5 + DEX 14 + Tumble 6 + Armorskin 2 = 49 AC, which isn't piss poor. You can solo stuff if you invest in it and with a party, what does it matter?

You are correct, one does not simply use the essences on bows.


I think 55 ac is bad, and 49 ac is unacceptably low. Just my opinion. I think some mobs in end-game areas actually have around that much AB so you will get obliterated when they get to you and you are an archer so you'll provoke a lot of AaO's.

Called shot only helps you on people that don't gear, so fights that don't matter because you win anyway.

Monk 10 sorc 1 aa 19 is "beast-mode" stronger if you want AA. I don't see what flavor a MS build gets you when you can't even use it's biggest defining bonus, the essences (you can trap/move fast/just say you're a scout as a monk AA) and you can get preform on gear, to satisfy your bardic 'performances,' which won't be good with only 6 bard anyway. There simply isn't any 'flavor' you can't represent mechanically that you're getting with bard/ms/aa that you can't get with a 'proper' AA build, aside from some very very niche bard spellcasting, but you have sorc levels, so you won't even need UMD to use arcane wands/scrolls.
Author:  Commie [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 3:06 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
edit; if you do monk 10 sorc 1 aa 19, start with sub 8 cha and cast from items or get some cha boosting items so you can cast. Being 'dispel bugged' is a huge boon to this kind of build.

and take sorc at 9, saving one monk in epic for tumble.
Author:  Akhlys [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 3:09 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Called shot is good. The amount of people with discipline gear on this server is minimal. I, playing a monk with 42-45 AB depending on buffs, knock people down all the time. You, playing an arcane archer with 55 to 60 AB will have no problems triggering the called shot's effects.
That being said, movement reduction from legs will be countered by freedom and dexterity decrease will be countered by immunity to negative energy damage (negative energy protection, undeath's eternal foe, etc).
Arm's isn't countered by shit and is one of the best 1v1 tools a person can have, ranged or not.
While it doesn't pierce epic dodge, it will trigger it regardless of it hitting or not. As in, you roll a 1 on your called shot, your attack which ought to have missed, does so, but also activates the epic dodge as if it were able to hit. Now any further attack in the round, called shot or not, will hit as epic dodge had been triggered legitimately.
Author:  Commie [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 3:15 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Akhlys wrote:
While it doesn't pierce epic dodge, it will trigger it regardless of it hitting or not. As in, you roll a 1 on your called shot, your attack which ought to have missed, does so, but also activates the epic dodge as if it were able to hit. Now any further attack in the round, called shot or not, will hit as epic dodge had been triggered legitimately.


tested this specifically, didn't seem to work as you describe. Was epic dodging attack rolls after missed called shots.

Make sure if you test it yourself you're actually 'in combat' or epic dodge itself turns off.
Author:  Opustus [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 3:23 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Commie: In my mind, building a character isn't about finding the best possible builds with the most optimized numbers, to me that is boring and defeats the purpose of the rich and immersive class-system NWN is based on. RPing your class with due respect, for me, is like a paladin's code, and opting for builds that can become the kind of character I want to play is at the core of my enjoyment here. I guess we could dust off the vast archives for talk on the RP Build vs. Powerbuild debate, though I am of the firm opinion that the two aren't mutually exclusive per se and that the correlation isn't related beyond mere coincidence.

Arkhlys: I didn't think Epic Dodge triggers on a miss? The phrasing of the wiki is: "This feat causes a character to automatically avoid the first successful attack or the first (possibly unsuccessful) attack of opportunity or riposte in a round, not simply the first attack in a round." Commie's testing would seem to confirm this. Is there a special rule to Called Shot vs. Epic Dodge? Have you tested this in-game?
Author:  Akhlys [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 3:24 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
ive tested it multiple times because people kept saying shit like knock down/called shot goes through epic dodge, which it doesnt, but it does trigger it
Author:  Opustus [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 3:29 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Weird! Either of you guys has made an error, then; your results contradict each other. The wiki rarely lies, but dunno, anything can happen or then I don't understand the phrasing correctly.
Author:  Commie [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 3:33 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Opustus wrote:
Weird! Either of you guys has made an error, then; your results contradict each other. The wiki rarely lies, but dunno, anything can happen or then I don't understand the phrasing correctly.


I can't see anything on the wiki about ED and called shot.

But this;

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_dodge

Quote:
Epic dodge only applies to a character's current target or latest attacker.


Is the reason a lot of people get erroneous test results. The called shot thing only works if the guy with ED is standing there not doing anything and not in combat and not targeting the guy with the arrows. If you're doing any of those things ED works fine vs called shot.

Test it yourself.
Author:  Jes [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 5:45 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
I'm playing a Bard/AA/MS and I think she's fun as hell. Just sayin'.

Biggest problem is the same problem all dedicated archers tend to have. Low monies if you're not constantly farming easy things with weapon finessed weaponry or unlimited ammo.
Author:  OpenTheRift [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 15:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Can attest called shot is amazing specifically on AAs.
Author:  Akhlys [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 15:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Commie you are wrong. This was done on Sinfar because I can easily run two epic dodge characters there, but unless epic dodge was re-coded on Amia, it is the same shit. I'll get Soren to prove it with me later today if this isn't enough evidence.

These are the characters used. Pachira is a monk tank with 85 AC and epic dodge. Canda is a monk ranger using kamas and flurry of blows to get 10 attacks a round. There is no possible way for Canda to hit Pachira without rolling a 20.

Image

FIRST EXAMPLE
Image

SECOND EXAMPLE
Image

THIRD EXAMPLE
Image

FOURTH EXAMPLE
Image

FIFTH EXAMPLE
Here I make both use knockdown to prove it goes both ways and isn't something fucky with one of them.
Image


EDIT:

Maiti (62 AC) vs Soren (48 AC)

Only Maiti using knockdown.
Image

Both using knockdown.
Image
Author:  OpenTheRift [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 15:30 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
no monks were harmed in the testing of this glitch
Author:  Commie [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 18:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
So missing any special attack (ikd, disarm, called shot, etc) just eats the epic dodge?
Author:  Akhlys [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 19:47 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Using any of them will just activate the epic dodge.
Author:  Commie [ Thu, Feb 02 2017, 20:34 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
That's good to know. I guess I was reading my results wrong.

In that case get Called Shot as it and other alt attacks just blow through ED.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Fri, Feb 03 2017, 3:22 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
I personally find it hard to believe this mechanic has never been documented in the 15 years this game has existed by any server or any wiki or any resource available.

I suppose if I'm wrong I'm wrong, but it just strikes me as odd.

ED: Knock off a few years since Epic Dodge wasn't in vanilla.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Fri, Feb 03 2017, 3:25 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
And for the actual topic: called shot fuckin owns on archers because your AB is sky fucking high meaning it actually takes dedicated discipline investment to make it work more so than any other class' AB rolls on the server save a gimmick earth genasi MS/WM.
Author:  The1Kobra [ Fri, Feb 03 2017, 4:21 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Personally, I'd go with blind fight. Anyone with IMPR Invis or displacement will make this character miserable if you don't pack it. Losing half your shots to concealment isn't worth it.

I'd also go for toughness on the master scout feat. It's easier to gear up Fort than it is to gear up CON/HP, I find. (2 mythal slots is 2 CON for +30 HP and 1 Fort, or +6 fort.)


As for epic feats, depends on if you start with an even or odd DEX. You could go:

10/19/12/14/8/11
OR
10/18/12/14/8/12 (+2 extra STR, WIS, or CHA)

As your starting spread.

For epic feats, you get 7, so you want:
EWF, Armor Skin, Epic Prowess,
I'd probably go with the starting even dex score and get 3 Great dex, and epic skill focus spot. With SF Spot and the elf skill affinity, it would get a good spot, and elves are supposed to have good senses, after all!
Author:  robbi320 [ Fri, Feb 03 2017, 13:15 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
I might be a weird voice in here, but I'd really say that you should take both. Even after one proc of Called shot, it's great, because one less AC, and often also AB, and Blind Fight gives you a 25% higher chance to hit.

Let alone the fact that Called shot makes you faster than the enemy, which, on a ranged guy, is awesome. Kiting!

So, I'd take both, even if that would mean giving up ESF Spot...
Author:  Opustus [ Fri, Feb 03 2017, 14:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elfiest AA (Bard/MasterScout/ArcaneArcher)
Robbi and Kobra: Blindfight is included among the epic feats. It reads in the guide. The build is too cramped to accommodate both as general feats, so it the taking of Blindfight is postponed.

Secondly, I do not want to give fully optimized builds that people can readily copy. I think that this build's most salient features aren't harmed by a little sprinkle of taste here and there; the basic framework is enough to get that baby going. Of course everyone, including you Kobra, is free to fill in the blanks as one sees fit.

Akhlys: A very nice catch, I've never heard of or noticed it myself. And I think anything is possible, even this kind of an oversight of a very central feature of the game.
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