Now, while I would personally love to see some high end quests (and I know the crew is working on them they just take a while to do!) I also have to say "I am busy" is an odd excuse.

I do level my charas myself (if I happen t have a new one) I do not use DC, I do not even use the job system much.

1. I have a job which has me work at least 40 hrs a week.
2. I DM quite a bit on top of that.
3. I invest quite a bit of time in faction leading.

I have played other RP servers before and all of them were much harder to leveling.

Not rushing the leveling can actually be a quite nice experience. Really you do not have to be 30 to RP and partake in events. It is nice to eventually get there sure. But does it require haste?

I always have lower levels in my events (or often) and they always get quest XP from me for it. And they never seemed to "die all the time". I have seen many events on Amia that do not require fight at all.

And sure... it does look fancy when you flash your 120 spellcraft in an event. Is it necessary? No. Most detect magic stuff and the like has a DC of 25 or 30. Does it look fancy? yeah mayb not that IC anyone sees it. Does it give you more info than a normal pass of the check would? No.

Same goes for most rolls.

Now I am not saying there is nothing to improve to make the leveling a little more exciting and juicy. But "I have little time so I want now with little effort" is not the way and should never be. If you do not work at all for something, it is worthless in the end and nothing nice and great at all anymore.

_________________

No one in this thread has ever said you have to be level 30 to RP, however if you've actually taken the time to put thought into various character types you quickly realize that being 30 is the only way their character concept may hold water. This might not be the case for many, or most characters but it certainly is for some. EX: Eurgiga's minotaur.

More importantly on the journey, the journey to some may be getting to lvl 30 and playing the game to that point with various parties. That's not the case for everyone though, and with increased XP rates those other people would be able to pursue the journey they envisioned, and not the one forced on them by the current system. No one will be forced into being level 30 anymore than they already are with an XP rate increase. Frankly if YOU want to take YOUR time to level be OUR guest. But if WE want to be level 30 that should be OUR prerogative. No one tells you how to play, we shouldn't be told how to play either.


Altitis follows the same storyline, if YOU don't want to play 10 characters be OUR guest. If we want to play 10 characters, LET US. There's a lot of 'this is the right way to play' going on in this thread. And it's very disheartening. We are only trying to provide a system that allows everyone to enjoy NWN as they please and to cut out the frivolous time spent on the weak aspects of this game (grinding, leveling) which personally I don't even play this game for. I play for the RP, it just happens NWN is the best medium to facilitate the RP I want.


And finally, NWN as a game is kind of weak outside of the gems it's really good at, such as customization, RP facilitation, world building, neat combat system. (which only really shines in player to player interactions because frankly AI is always pathetic)

_________________
bad man

Increase the XP from Dream Coins. I found when I'm on a new character, I'm always budgeting my play time between if I want to RP or level. I'll always pick RP if I have a choice, so the newbie characters never get anywhere advancement wise. I hate feeling like I'm missing RP when I'm out killing my 1000th gibberling. If I could eat the DC I get after hours of RP for 2-3 levels a pop, I'd feel a lot better about the whole system.

That I can really agree with too. As it is right now, you earned a DC! What can I do with it???
Nothing, save it until you have at least Five. And using them at low levels is a super waste in regards to time vs XP to level.

I'd support 1-2 DCs per level. Cause what you blow them on is your choice, and lvling on DCs requiring in the range of 100ish DCs is not good considering we can not always be around to DC everyone in all timezones or days of the week. Again though that's just me, not the stance of the team.

_________________

Since it is coming up again, my post that was stickied in this thread regarding the "altitis" issue is not a judgment on how one chooses to play on Amia or how many characters they do or do not have. It was just to point at a possible reason why those who have multiple characters may find that they are not as involved in the overall story as those who focus on fewer characters. That is all. An individual player can do whatever they like on that front. I just wrote the post in the hopes it might help players understand and ultimately manage their expectations.

Indeed if YOU want to be 30 in 4 days then it is YOUR decision and you have to bite the sour apple and either grind or devour DC. *shrugs*

_________________

@ OpenTheRift

Of course there is an expectation of conduct within the community, and expectations on how to play your character. Amia may prefer to give their playerbase a wide range of freedoms and creativity, but there are limitations to that. When you come to Amia, you are expected to follow those limitations. Just like every other server, it has it's own theme and style. There are limitations on what I can play and the community does have influence on how I can play. The rules are the boundaries, and within them there is also playstyles that are more encouraged.

As a few examples: If someone comes to Amia, they are expected to roleplay. Within that, you are expected to roleplay the character you make. If you roll an 6int orog, you are expected to play that 6int and not your character as if he had 14. If your character is level six, your are expected to play your character as if he or she were level six. If you play a cleric, you are expected to play a cleric devoted to the dogma, or you will fall. If you want to play certain backgrounds, prestige classes or races, you need to request it. If you take a faction leader role, you need to demonstrate some activity.

The liberties you have as a player, does not mean this server is to cater to your every whim. There are compromises you are expected to live with, and you are expected to respect your fellow players in order for this community to work. It is also just a reality that Amia caters to a certain range of players. Just like every server does. So players need to make the choice which is the best server for them. Arelith, Sinfar, Cormyr, BG on NWN2, they all do. I have preferences of a server that Amia does not provide, but it provides me with the most of what I do look for. Hence I play here.

Now, I for one summarized what is being done to improve new players having an easier time with the leveling process. I explained what we are doing to improve the quality of dungeons. Members of the playerbase and team have expressed their acceptance or support for revisiting the leveling range issue. In turn, it is expected you listen to other concerns and compromise yourself. There are serious concerns with having the insta-level-30 style available. Concerns that will seriously impact the style for everyone, including those who think leveling is already far too fast.

Why should we change the theme and style of the server to such a great degree, just to cater to your wishes, while ignoring those of the others of this community? Why should we overall Amia and turn it into a completly different server (as insta level 30 will do) just so you can have one of your preferences fully catered to? That is a demand I do not see respecting your fellow players. Amia is not for everyone. We can not be for everyone, as that does not work. We try to improve the experience of the community, but Amia can not be everything at once as else it will fall apart.

Amia does not cater to those who enjoy cybering. Amia does not cater to hardcore survival roleplay. Amia does not cater to those who want level progression to be an enormous effort. Amia does not cater to those who soley want an action server experience. Amia does not cater to those who want a very low-magic setting. Amia does not cater to those who want to have it be necessary to consume food every 8 hours. Amia does not cater to the crowd who wants massive amount of character versus character conflict. There are many things Amia does not cater to. If we began to, we would quickly notice it can not work.

*Stands and slow claps*

_________________
fairdady..

I agree as well, we need to keep in mind the interests of the community as a whole.

Ultimately, I think that we aren't going to all get what we absolutely want, but we might get what we need in the end.

Thank you, Pony, for your last two posts. Pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Also, I heartily share and agree with Maht and Amarice's thoughts.

_________________
I Am:
Derrin: 'Nothing to see here'
Beck: Hard working dwarf paladin.
Naela 'Widow': Wandering priestess.
Celinor Triellian: Paladin of Corellon.

It seems to me that the widely-shared consensus is that the optimal rate of XP on Amia does not need to be increased, but that there are real, situational problems different people have in reaching that optimal rate. These include knowledge of areas and enemies (the idea of "leveling guides" has been tossed around) , build and combat proficiency (addressed by the build forum), efficient use of consumables and other items in the module (ask around and practise, I suppose), and most importantly, timezones and party availability. This last point, I think, is best fixed by removing the party level range cap, as suggested in its own topic. And finally, alternative means of XP gain, which is a huge project and partially underway.

There just isn't any easy fix to this, since it isn't as simple as increasing the total XP rate across the board.

I do think it is a reasonable guideline that you should be able to level a character to 30 in 30 hours. That is a respectable playtime for a single-player game you complete once, let alone a multiplayer game you start over several times and spend much time outside those 30 hours role-playing (i.e. not gaining XP). If that isn't possible for everyone on a relatively consistent basis, there is room for improvement.

_________________

I would like to very quickly point out, Mahtan, that my stance on increasing the actual EXP rate is still a very firm and solid "I have no idea." As I said in a previous post, I have personally always preferred the slow build, the struggle of getting to a destination and overcoming such. (Partly why I continue to play games like Dark Souls in my off-time, despite sucking at them.) I am, personally, not among those who think that the EXP rate is too low; I don't have any real idea if it's too low, too high, or just right, because I rarely grind and I'm pretty new here. Perhaps we should change that a bit, or perhaps not. I think you guys (the server as a whole) know more about that than I.

My opinion is just, very firmly, that something needs to be done. Something that addresses these issues without harming the server for the majority, because, as you guys quite truthfully said, we are a community with many groups, and one group should not be catered to above others. That is precisely my biggest fear with regards to this issue, and the reason for my last post. During that post, I did make a point to explicitly say that I respect disagreeing opinions, including those that disagree with my own, just as long as they acknowledge the issue at hand and consider all sides rather than simply turning it aside and disregarding it as a whole.

Like others, I just don't want to see this discussion either get locked without actually being read (which I've actually seen happen here once or twice and it made me very disappointed), or to see everyone to agree on a solution and then not actually do anything about it for another year. My biggest concern would be that we, as a community, would be unwilling to consider changes that would benefit us as a whole for the purpose of saving effort and preserving the status quo. My biggest concern is, quite simply, that we just wouldn't care.

For the moment, however, I'm still pretty confident that we do, as evidenced by the considerable amount of effort by many people in writing the many posts on this topic. Time will tell where this goes, but I can only sincerely hope that, if we all reach a consensus that something is best for the community, we will actually do something about it in a timely manner — for it is an issue that, at least in my and others' opinion, should be addressed soon.


To that end, the one thing I do continue to support wholeheartedly is an ECL Limit change or removal, simply because that seems to be the one issue that most everyone in this thread agrees with, regardless of their thoughts on the EXP rate. I actually do fully concur with Mahtan's assessment of this issue. The only purpose of the ECL system is to avoid powergaming, and there will, honestly, always be powergamers. The system should be designed with the server's majority in mind, not the minority. Powergamers are, I think, a minority, and it isn't even that effective at keeping them from doing their thing, if you can get to max level in 3-4 days by simply knowing what you're doing and how the system works.

And I'll openly agree that, yeah, vets helping low-level characters is definitely a thing regardless. It was something some people did for me when I joined through making alts that they, as That Guy also mentioned, proceeded to never play again once we got up to a level that we could all play together on a regular basis. So, not only does it not prevent powergaming, but it makes levelling into a chore that people have to get around to play with their friends, in addition to all the frequently-mentioned ridiculous hindrances to roleplay that it also causes.

Changing this is an issue most all of us, as a broader community, seem to agree on. So, I say, if no one has a particularly compelling argument against doing something about it, let's... You know, do something about it.

Also, Disclaimer: Once again, Pony, you a supastar. Very well said.

This wasn't actually a disclaimer but now I'm keeping with the joke.

_________________
Currently Playing:

• Krel'xiekiv - Kobold Scout
• Aldriano Alode'tnen - Fabulous Bard

I have not as yet shared my personal stance, but I suppose I can now. My stance is that I am not sure and I would need a lot longer than 72 hours to consider the complexity of the issue before really knowing what I believe to be the best course of action.

Also, sorry for the double-post, but increasing the EXP gain from burning Dream Coins is an agree I also concur with you guys on. First thing I was told when I discovered you could do that was a universally-urged, "Oh dear Lord, don't do that, it's totally useless."

Making it not-useless would be a pretty cool idea. It's another way to reward people for roleplay, after all. And, as Mahtan said, they're really only useful in higher amounts. I'd say they're not even useful at that rate, for EXP gain, unless you're in the upper 20's.

I dunno if I'd support 1 DC per level unless you're, say, below 10. Maybe it could vary depending on what level you are, since... Yeah, I'll agree, they're pretty useless right now except at really high levels. And, even then, not much good for that use. It'd be nice to give people more options to use them.

Perhaps 1-2 DC below level, say, 10 or 15, and then 2-3 after that? I'm providing ranges to discuss, but those seem pretty good in my opinion. Just an idea.

(Edit: jk not a double post)

_________________
Currently Playing:

• Krel'xiekiv - Kobold Scout
• Aldriano Alode'tnen - Fabulous Bard

It is actually possible to increase XP across the board in the module settings, there is an XP scale but I doubt it's going to shift.

_________________
Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand

Discord: Bhaalorian#5715

1 DC = 1 level would be super cool.

_________________
bad man

Yeah, this.

_________________
Saevel Irithyl

1-2 DCs for non epic levels sounds very nice to me. Making Epic levels obviously cost more does make sense.

I was also wrong, 1 DC lets you buy a PLC spawner with one object. DCs XP given is also best put in a different topic.

_________________

The XP gainrate is perfectly fine as it is. Any easier and you might as well start people out at max level. If you're having trouble, I'd say your problems are either build-related, knowledge-related, or time-related, all of which are user-end problems and not reasons to turn the knob to 1.

About the only issues I see with the server as far as progression goes is widening the party level gap a bit and actually having loot at low levels, really.

From about 1 to the teens, loot is so worthless that A) no one in their right mind would wear this stuff and B) it doesn't even sell enough to keep you stocked in healing kits enough to level consistently.

Factor this in with the whole, "well, my buddy who can only play 2 hours today is 5 levels behind so I have to shove my thumbs up my arse and do nothing" and leveling is annoying. Fix these and Amia is golden.

_________________
Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind
Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice

(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)