AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Neso wrote:

Alright, sorry. You should've just said that your guards transcend d&d rules then. That clears it up.

God, don't even go there. Now yu're just exaggerating and whining because you got told you shouldn't hostile, Wail, GS and leave in front of a guard. I don't care how fast you did it, you still did it and it's still metagaming.

Cordor's dealt with enough adventurer stupidity to have developed their own tactics against them.

Many other settlements have probably had similar experiences, thus why they haven't been wiped off the map yet.

TormakSaber wrote:

Neso wrote:

Alright, sorry. You should've just said that your guards transcend d&d rules then. That clears it up.

God, don't even go there. Now yu're just exaggerating and whining because you got told you shouldn't hostile, Wail, GS and leave in front of a guard. I don't care how fast you did it, you still did it and it's still metagaming.

I don't have a character capable of doing these things, for the record. But these are still things I feel should be up for discussion. If you have a rule that says "don't attack anyone infront of guards" because that is metagaming, then you should put in one that says "don't provoke other characters infront of the guards", because that is equally metagaming.

Would you rather that a script was put in that causes the guards in the area to all become hostile to you the moment you attack someone and kill you on the spot? With no raise or respawn or chance of fixing the problem thats made you fully hostile to the guard faction?

Probably not. Probably not at all.

Edit: Oh and even better. Lets make it so if you beat a Cordor guard, you spawn a Law Knight in it's spot.

Depends on what the provoking is. Most places really aren't going to care if you're taking the piss out of some Drow or Tiefling or known "Evil God Worshipper".

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Would you rather that a script was put in that causes the guards in the area to all become hostile to you the moment you attack someone and kill you on the spot? With no raise or respawn or chance of fixing the problem thats made you fully hostile to the guard faction?

Probably not. Probably not at all.

Yes. If the guard was in vicinity.

Then feel free to attack people inside Wiltun, where exactly that happens. You're decked with 10k unresistable damage and you die on the spot.

Neso wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Would you rather that a script was put in that causes the guards in the area to all become hostile to you the moment you attack someone and kill you on the spot? With no raise or respawn or chance of fixing the problem thats made you fully hostile to the guard faction?

Probably not. Probably not at all.

Yes. If the guard was in vicinity.

Your opinion is in the minority from what I understand.

TormakSaber wrote:

Depends on what the provoking is. Most places really aren't going to care if you're taking the piss out of some Drow or Tiefling or known "Evil God Worshipper".

You misunderstood me. I mean that the player who is doing the insulting is metagaming, because he or she knows that there is a rule in place that makes it impossible for people to attack infront of guards. Your logic applies here. Yes, I can't predict that the sword wielding guard in full plate will not be some overly powerful entity that will decimate my character the second he moves to cast. But in that same way, the person doing the insulting can't predict that the victim is not some lunatic who will shred him to pieces infront of the guards, ignoring all latter consequence. But oh wait, they can, because there is a rule in place that prevents that from happening.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Would you rather that a script was put in that causes the guards in the area to all become hostile to you the moment you attack someone and kill you on the spot? With no raise or respawn or chance of fixing the problem thats made you fully hostile to the guard faction?

Probably not. Probably not at all.

Edit: Oh and even better. Lets make it so if you beat a Cordor guard, you spawn a Law Knight in it's spot.

Sure. Works for me.

TormakSaber wrote:

Depends on what the provoking is. Most places really aren't going to care if you're taking the piss out of some Drow or Tiefling or known "Evil God Worshipper".

Welcome to care bear Amia.

Where you play goody goody, or you're fucked.

Neso wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Depends on what the provoking is. Most places really aren't going to care if you're taking the piss out of some Drow or Tiefling or known "Evil God Worshipper".

You misunderstood me. I mean that the player who is doing the insulting is metagaming, because he or she knows that there is a rule in place that makes it impossible for people to attack infront of guards. Your logic applies here. Yes, I can't predict that the sword wielding guard in full plate will not be some overly powerful entity that will decimate my character the second he moves to cast. But in that same way, the person doing the insulting can't predict that the victim is not some lunatic who will shred him to pieces infront of the guards, ignoring all latter consequence. But oh wait, they can, because there is a rule in place that prevents that from happening.

Step 1 - Get a DM to possess the guard
Step 2 - See if you are a lunatic capable of ripping the person to pieces before the guard owns you.

Get back on topic please. (*Was posted before Yurells appeared*)

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Neso wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Would you rather that a script was put in that causes the guards in the area to all become hostile to you the moment you attack someone and kill you on the spot? With no raise or respawn or chance of fixing the problem thats made you fully hostile to the guard faction?

Probably not. Probably not at all.

Yes. If the guard was in vicinity.

Your opinion is in the minority from what I understand.

It's not. His opinion is just being stomped on by DMs or those who tend to suck up to DMs.

Contradicting opinions towards the most vocal DMs (Ron and Tormak) usually gets you baited into a flame fest or you're declared as a moron.

Quote:

There's really no point in expressing concerns or opinions, any more, on Amia. Hasn't been for a while.

Yurell wrote:

Step 1 - Get a DM to possess the guard
Step 2 - See if you are a lunatic capable of ripping the person to pieces before the guard owns you.

I suppose I will repeat myself. Implosion.

Yurell wrote:

Neso wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Depends on what the provoking is. Most places really aren't going to care if you're taking the piss out of some Drow or Tiefling or known "Evil God Worshipper".

You misunderstood me. I mean that the player who is doing the insulting is metagaming, because he or she knows that there is a rule in place that makes it impossible for people to attack infront of guards. Your logic applies here. Yes, I can't predict that the sword wielding guard in full plate will not be some overly powerful entity that will decimate my character the second he moves to cast. But in that same way, the person doing the insulting can't predict that the victim is not some lunatic who will shred him to pieces infront of the guards, ignoring all latter consequence. But oh wait, they can, because there is a rule in place that prevents that from happening.

Step 1 - Get a DM to possess the guard
Step 2 - See if you are a lunatic capable of ripping the person to pieces before the guard owns you.

Uhm. How would a level 15 guard be able to "own me", when I play my level 30 character...?

Mr Mago wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Neso wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Depends on what the provoking is. Most places really aren't going to care if you're taking the piss out of some Drow or Tiefling or known "Evil God Worshipper".

You misunderstood me. I mean that the player who is doing the insulting is metagaming, because he or she knows that there is a rule in place that makes it impossible for people to attack infront of guards. Your logic applies here. Yes, I can't predict that the sword wielding guard in full plate will not be some overly powerful entity that will decimate my character the second he moves to cast. But in that same way, the person doing the insulting can't predict that the victim is not some lunatic who will shred him to pieces infront of the guards, ignoring all latter consequence. But oh wait, they can, because there is a rule in place that prevents that from happening.

Step 1 - Get a DM to possess the guard
Step 2 - See if you are a lunatic capable of ripping the person to pieces before the guard owns you.

Uhm. How would a level 15 guard be able to "own me", when I play my level 30 character...?

Well obviously if the guard is incapable of such the guard is incapable of such. My post also assumes that you're capable of killing the victim. It says "before". If the guard is incapable of doing so, it is still 'before'.

Mr Mago wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Neso wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Depends on what the provoking is. Most places really aren't going to care if you're taking the piss out of some Drow or Tiefling or known "Evil God Worshipper".

You misunderstood me. I mean that the player who is doing the insulting is metagaming, because he or she knows that there is a rule in place that makes it impossible for people to attack infront of guards. Your logic applies here. Yes, I can't predict that the sword wielding guard in full plate will not be some overly powerful entity that will decimate my character the second he moves to cast. But in that same way, the person doing the insulting can't predict that the victim is not some lunatic who will shred him to pieces infront of the guards, ignoring all latter consequence. But oh wait, they can, because there is a rule in place that prevents that from happening.

Step 1 - Get a DM to possess the guard
Step 2 - See if you are a lunatic capable of ripping the person to pieces before the guard owns you.

Uhm. How would a level 15 guard be able to "own me", when I play my level 30 character...?

Because there is procedures that happen if guards are suddenly slaughtered. Procedures that could not be adhered to if the entire area was made into a combat zone. Such as Law Knights being called in.

Neso wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Step 1 - Get a DM to possess the guard
Step 2 - See if you are a lunatic capable of ripping the person to pieces before the guard owns you.

I suppose I will repeat myself. Implosion.

What's stopping the guard from killing you before you cast the spell? Or counterspelling the spell?

Mr Mago wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Would you rather that a script was put in that causes the guards in the area to all become hostile to you the moment you attack someone and kill you on the spot? With no raise or respawn or chance of fixing the problem thats made you fully hostile to the guard faction?

Probably not. Probably not at all.

Edit: Oh and even better. Lets make it so if you beat a Cordor guard, you spawn a Law Knight in it's spot.

Sure. Works for me.

Can that be done? I thought NWN had problems with teams insofar as whether an NPC is hostile, neutral or ally?

Yurell wrote:

Neso wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Step 1 - Get a DM to possess the guard
Step 2 - See if you are a lunatic capable of ripping the person to pieces before the guard owns you.

I suppose I will repeat myself. Implosion.

What's stopping the guard from killing you before you cast the spell? Or counterspelling the spell?

Mr Mago wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Would you rather that a script was put in that causes the guards in the area to all become hostile to you the moment you attack someone and kill you on the spot? With no raise or respawn or chance of fixing the problem thats made you fully hostile to the guard faction?

Probably not. Probably not at all.

Edit: Oh and even better. Lets make it so if you beat a Cordor guard, you spawn a Law Knight in it's spot.

Sure. Works for me.

Can that be done? I thought NWN had problems with teams insofar as whether an NPC is hostile, neutral or ally?

It can be done. It does have issues. Every NPC in the faction goes hostile to you. Which means, every single NPC in the guard faction everywhere would go hostile. I believe the issue may be in relationships between factions. Such as ally's tend to then become hostile to you as well.

It also doesn't work because if some dickhead attacks a merchant NPC he suddenly gets hostiled by both the guard faction, then whatever faction the merchant NPC is designated to. Meaning every NPC in that faction on the entire server will suddenly become hostile.

Furthermore, it would require a complete review of the faction setup on Amia, a number of massive dramatic changes to the faction system, and would probably cause a lot of other systems that rely on the faction system to go completely bonkers and break. Meaning even more work. From what I understand about it, the job would be as big, if not bigger, then adding haks to the server or creating Amia-B.

This is all rely's on how Amia works with the faction setup of course, that in itself being something I don't know or have access to. Nor would I want access to it as it would mean I'm probably expected to work with it, and god knows how complicated the setup is for such a large server as Amia. Espically if someone originally started by using just the default faction setup and relationships.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

It can be done. It does have issues. Every NPC in the faction goes hostile to you. Which means, every single NPC in the guard faction everywhere would go hostile. I believe the issue may be in relationships between factions. Such as ally's tend to then become hostile to you as well.

It also doesn't work because if some (censored) attacks a merchant NPC he suddenly gets hostiled by both the guard faction, then whatever faction the merchant NPC is designated to. Meaning every NPC in that faction on the entire server will suddenly become hostile.

Furthermore, it would require a complete review of the faction setup on Amia, a number of massive dramatic changes to the faction system, and would probably cause a lot of other systems that rely on the faction system to go completely bonkers and break. Meaning even more work. From what I understand about it, the job would be as big, if not bigger, then adding haks to the server or creating Amia-B.

This is all rely's on how Amia works with the faction setup of course, that in itself being something I don't know or have access to. Nor would I want access to it as it would mean I'm probably expected to work with it, and god knows how complicated the setup is for such a large server as Amia. Espically if someone originally started by using just the default faction setup and relationships.

Yeah, I thought it maybe difficult. The only circumstance I've had where I've seen it needed was the drow battle with Baenre, where half the players were with the NPCs and the other half against, so the game needed to be frozen and dice rolled

Yurell wrote:

What's stopping the guard from killing you before you cast the spell? Or counterspelling the spell?

Again, with the rule transcending guards.

Let's do a scenario here:

Provoker: "Hey, I am going to insult you now."
Attacker: ...
Attacker: *Implosion.*

Now... I am going to walk out on a limb here and say that, unless the guard has the Epic Mindreading feat, he is not going to comprehend the situation, read the intent of the attacker, determine what type of spell was being cast (Is it hostile, or some other spell?), and then finally counter-spell it, all before one simple implosion is cast.

It doesn't really matter what you think, because the rules clearly state you shouldn't metagame the guards. Sorry.

Mr Mago wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Depends on what the provoking is. Most places really aren't going to care if you're taking the piss out of some Drow or Tiefling or known "Evil God Worshipper".

Welcome to care bear Amia.

Where you play goody goody, or you're (censored).

Welcome to Faerun, where the overwhelming majority likes people who AREN'T trying to dominate the world through fear force and murder better than the ones who are! Boo hoo, prejudice.

Neso wrote:

Yurell wrote:

What's stopping the guard from killing you before you cast the spell? Or counterspelling the spell?

Again, with the rule transcending guards.

Let's do a scenario here:

Provoker: "Hey, I am going to insult you now."
Attacker: ...
Attacker: *Implosion.*

Now... I am going to walk out on a limb here and say that, unless the guard has the Epic Mindreading feat, he is not going to comprehend the situation, read the intent of the attacker, determine what type of spell was being cast (Is it hostile, or some other spell?), and then finally counter-spell it, all before one simple implosion is cast.

Have you ever heard of the feat 'Autoquicken'?
How do you know the NPC won't know? You don't know that unless a DM is possessing it.

Also:

In response to Mago's comment about Amia being "Carebear"..

The name Amia was short form for 'Amicable.'

Some of you may not agree with such. But, it is what it is.

Amia's not carebear. But it shouldn't be surprising that in the vast majority of the world, good guys are liked better than bad guys. That's just sort of how it goes.

TormakSaber wrote:

It doesn't really matter what you think, because the rules clearly state you shouldn't metagame the guards. Sorry.

Rules can and have been changed through discussion, but thanks for telling me that my opinions don't matter. It's really encouraging me to further post on these forums.

Yurell wrote:

How do you know the NPC won't know? You don't know that unless a DM is possessing it.

Simple. Because the DM (hence the NPC) doesn't know what I (hence my character) is thinking.

Just thought to ask some questions here seeing its a little relevant. Ive always gone by the WYSIWYG route. PvP in cordor is definitely out cos its well, not PvP enabled. In Wiltun, its available but there's a script in place that kills you so well, no PvP within too ofc.

Ive generally taken to simply following what the engine allows whilst trying to adhere to common sense (No fighting within a guarded city/town like Bendir but outside is ok)

But here is where I have got questions:

-Just in general, if a DM isnt on, is a PC allowed to dictate an NPC's reaction such as abandoning his/her guard post to aid in a scuffle? E.g. I call the militia to help me or I call the rangers to abandon their guard post to come get you now so you best leave asap.

-Now is where it gets abit more complicated I guess, what happens if the crier is not some random fella but perhaps affiliated with the grove or hin city?

p.s. this is just something that I recall seeing before while passing by both areas and it just got me wondering. Never occurred to me specifically.

Neso wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

It doesn't really matter what you think, because the rules clearly state you shouldn't metagame the guards. Sorry.

Rules can and have been changed through discussion, but thanks for telling me that my opinions don't matter. It's really encouraging me to further post on these forums.

"I think I should be able to kill anyone I like anywhere I like because there's no way the guards would react in time."
It could be that your angle is right, and it's something that should be changed, or it could be that others disagree strongly with it.
At present it's a rule for a reason.

Neso wrote:

Yurell wrote:

How do you know the NPC won't know? You don't know that unless a DM is possessing it.

Simple. Because the DM (hence the NPC) doesn't know what I (hence my character) is thinking.

But you also don't know what the guard's reaction would be. You cast implosion, what does the guard do? Launch an attack at you? Order the gates shut? Calls for reinforcements? Counterspell you? Pulls out a Wand of Hellball?

Neso wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

It doesn't really matter what you think, because the rules clearly state you shouldn't metagame the guards. Sorry.

Rules can and have been changed through discussion, but thanks for telling me that my opinions don't matter. It's really encouraging me to further post on these forums.

Yurell wrote:

How do you know the NPC won't know? You don't know that unless a DM is possessing it.

Simple. Because the DM (hence the NPC) doesn't know what I (hence my character) is thinking.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but you're clearly trying to find loopholes in a perfectly defined rule. "Don't attack people in front of the guards without a DM there to play the NPCs". It doesn't matter how fast or slow you do it or how strong you think your PC is. You still did it. Having a level 30 doesn't make you above the metagaming rules because you can cast Implosion or Wail or Dev people on 10-20 dual rapiers.

Lets watch all the baiting and bad attitudes here or people will start getting some vacation time. Seriously people, its a game and Cordor is one city that strictly holds laws due its massive player community. This just proves even more so we can never have the place a free for all.
We can't trust the majority to go leave the place standing with a PVP zone for new players to come see since its the main start zone and the place is laggy enough without scripts to spawn guards to kill the guys that do go and try.

Yurell wrote:

But you also don't know what the guard's reaction would be. You cast implosion, what does the guard do? Launch an attack at you? Order the gates shut? Calls for reinforcements? Counterspell you? Pulls out a Wand of Hellball?

I already established this fact in the post where I said that the provoker also can't know what my character is thinking. It's up there, so you can re-read for a response to this, in the initial point I was trying to make.

Yurell wrote:

"I think I should be able to kill anyone I like anywhere I like because there's no way the guards would react in time."
It could be that your angle is right, and it's something that should be changed, or it could be that others disagree strongly with it.
At present it's a rule for a reason.

Look, you can twist and turn my words in whichever direction you like, but the bottom line is that I feel that the system is flawed, hence I am speaking my opinion in order to achieve a fix. I rarely PvP, this is not about the fact that I feel that I should be able to kill everybody however and wherever I like, and get away with it. It's about the fact that I feel that I should be able to risk the consequences of attacking someone infront of the guards, without there being a rule to prohibit that.

But it is up to everybody to come up with ideas as to how you could implement those consequences, so that this rule could be ditched. For an instance, if the faction thing is a problem, maybe make attacking someone infront of a guard give you a token that will brand you a criminal, prevent you from entering cities, prevent you from trading, take damage when near a guard, get sent to jail when near a guard, etc.

I am going to bed now. Good night.

Oh dear. This topic got big while I was napping, and I'm almost afraid to respond. Whew. Okay. As a PC guard player for Cordor, I don't have an issue with it being a city with an intimidating amount of guards, that are prepared to squelch your attempts if you aren't damn good and prepared, which makes for some amazing, criminal RP that I thank people for. It's fantastic when we get a little gem that legitimately got away for being superb and we have to adjust the Guard RP to being more cautious, carry around different equipment/counters, put out an arrest warrant, etc.

I also don't see a problem with seeing Cordor as a place of refuge, which I think it was ICly intended as at one point. It's a wealthy city, with a lot of guards in its employ to keep things running smoothly. If you're wanted dead somewhere, I imagine you'd want to stay and lay low in a big city with lots of law enforcement to protect you. Though, hey. It looks like it's changing, which is awesome. There is less protection going on, and more discrimination. It's less of a refuge to some nowadays.

Using my PC as an example, she thinks ahead a bit when someone announces they're going to kill her for a bloody revenge and use her guts for decoration at their next tea party. Why would she give them the opportunity? I started thinking this way after the permadeath topics came around again, and we've come to acknowledge that there is only so much you can do, and then the victim is up and at the mall in a few hours.

However, then you do have PCs or NPCs that die forever, and the mortality hits the PC. There is a fear that, hey, I could be next. Instead of removing themselves from the game and opposing people, they plot their moves more carefully. I think this makes the threat of death more real, and some people should be flattered that you are enough of a threat that people alter their RP to not die. They may not admit fear and will talk big, but there must be something that's stuck with them.

That said, I wish criminals would alter their crime style to do something unique and truly cunning or stumping. Where they are cognizant of the things against them, and make up a truly awesome plan that operate on Cordor's weaknesses. Believe me, there are some and people have planned to use them. Yet, I still see people who try to escape through the North Gate with the helmet check, while my PC is running after yelling, "Hold the gates! Criminal!" before the criminal PC gets there.

Look at BLACK. They saw that Cordor sewer is highly accessible, without a helmet check coming through the Swamp. They almost blew up the Cordor Guard Watch House, and could have destroyed records/guards. Sometimes, the attempts blow me away too in a good way, but I won't bore you with some of the gem stories that do make it fun for me as a PC guard.

The reality of it that there is sometimes a joke of how textbook some criminals are, because there are busy days where you will see the same crime attempt several times just over the duration of one shift. I won't give an example, to respect forum rules, but the criminals that aren't crafty and fresh tend to be a bit yawn. That said, I encourage PCs to get in touch with a DM and think up something super creative and crafty. There was a ritual murder plot that a DM was helping some PCs with that I was a bit excited about. They left clues, and a calling card, and a couple of the Guards met up and reviewed evidence and discussed a game plan. What's disappointing is that it seems to have dropped off into oblivion.

Another point is that if I'm in Cordor, and you do want to have your PC get ticked because he's a loose cannon and wants to smack someone, but you're afraid of metagaming a guard... send me a tell. I've had a couple people do this, and most of the time I'll agree because it shows that they are aware of the situation and the opposition against them but want to continue anyway. Most of this is in Cordor Square, mind. It's refreshing.

I feel like I should have done drafts of this, since it's large and I'm not keen on upsetting you lot, but regardless. Here is my opinion.

Neso wrote:

Yurell wrote:

But you also don't know what the guard's reaction would be. You cast implosion, what does the guard do? Launch an attack at you? Order the gates shut? Calls for reinforcements? Counterspell you? Pulls out a Wand of Hellball?

I already established this fact in the post where I said that the provoker also can't know what my character is thinking. It's up there, so you can re-read for a response to this, in the initial point I was trying to make.

I still fail to see your point - a DM needs to be there so that the NPCs can respond appropriately.

Should I make another topic to address this doubt, or can it be sated here? Not wanting to be rude or anything, just really trying to know what to think about this situation:

BlackDahlya wrote:

(...)what about the "NPC PC" guards in L'Obsul, in the area of the Houses? Some RP was already barred there and I am still thinking of a way to create RP, but I feel with my hands tied. Not even my PC who is accepted by the drow of Lolth can do a thing there because of that.

When it was mentioned that the PCs would be responsible for guarding their own areas, I think it was meant with IC physical presence of the PCs, not imaginary presence of NPC guards when the PCs were not on.

How do we go about those areas?

EDIT: I am only quoting myself here because I am afraid the thread gets locked without an answer to this question.

"NPC PC"?

Last edited by BlackDahlya on Sat, Mar 20 2010, 4:34 AM, edited 1 time in total.

TormakSaber wrote:

"NPC PC"?

Yes. There are, physically, no NPC guards. But on the forums, the members of the faction RP that there are and it usually serves to bar some actions.

I remember you or someone else saying that in the new drow city (I understand the place where the houses are, since L'Obsul has NPC guards), the PCs that would be responsible for the defenses of their area.

I want to know if that means that the area is only defended when, physically, the PCs are there and if they are not, people can enter there. Or if the PCs are not physically there, they cannot enter because they put NPC (non-existant physcally) guards there.

I am assuming the latter because not everyone can be on 24/7 to guard their factional areas, but in this case, without physical representations of guards (in the shape of NPCs), are we really meant to accept that the NPC guards are there doing as commanded?

EDIT: Gah, forgot to add. If you check the link under "NPC PC", you will know what I mean.

EDIT 2: Apparently, I cannot type correctly today. Fixed missing words.

I always thought the Cordor mage-guards were eveready to counterspell anyone who casts a hostile spell (like implosion). That justification suits me.

I have to say that anyone rping their faction having guards when the guards are not present in game is rping BS. Factions that have guards generally had to pay for those guards at some point in the past, probably quite a bit as well. As such, they get the benefit, and those who do not have them do not.

In my opinion (And it is just an opinion), if you don't have guards for your faction, you don't have guards for your faction. You don't get to RP it, and you don't get to bar actions with the non-existant guards. War Knights have guards for example, I'm sure the guy who was leading the faction at the time had to pay for them along with everything else we have. I'd be frankely annoyed to find out another faction didn't have to pay for them, doesn't have them in there faction area, and is still getting the benefits of having them. It would be a little pissy honestly.

Edit: Vayleks reasoning is perfectly sound and likely 100% correct.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Edit: Vayleks reasoning is perfectly sound and likely 100% correct.

Indeed. I always assumed the Cordor NPC Mage Guards to be there for defense, as in, on a constant state of Counterspelling.

Every mage set to counterspell another mage is able to counter the spell because, assumedly they can see and recognize gesturings and spell components being used, and obviously they can identify the words being chanted.

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

BlackDahlya wrote:

Indeed. I always assumed the Cordor NPC Mage Guards to be there for defense, as in, on a constant state of Counterspelling.

lol! you for real?

Why doesn't the DM team just bite the bullet and say something like "no pvp because a magical artifact prevents it". At least then it would make some form of IC sense so we can all RP around it.

Counterspelling isn't IC?

I imagine Cordor would be more then willing to fork out the dough needed to have it's mages aware and knowledgeable of every offensive spell likely to be cast in Cordor. If an offensive spell is to be cast that is not known, well you probably need a DM anyway to ask if you can cast a PnP spell.

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

TormakSaber wrote:

Counterspelling isn't IC?

To my understanding, amia has a bit of a WYSIWYG policy. The mages are not counterspelling, furthermore they couldnt counter spell two mages at once. Its problematic, if you really badly want cordor to be no PVP, just give it a solid reason.

I think the main reason people dislike the no pvp in cordor is because it seems like a city where pvp would be possible. Generally, guards respond after an event not before it. I would just take the extra step and make a really solid reason its no pvp to end the grey area.

Unless you have your whole faction of death mongers with you you are not going to survive an attack on the middle of Cordor. It's got massive golems in the Guard, mega-mages, an army of Law Knights. Cordor is a military city. Added to that it is crawling with volatile and very powerful characters. Would the Mage guards run shifts of Auto-quicken Counterspell? Of course; the more you think of it the more you'd expect it to normal procedure.

Does Bendir Have the same thing? No, not by a long way. Does Kholingen? Well, you may get the spell off but do not expect to get out of the city. Uhm, Wharftown, road wardens? No, silly to think so... an Uber-power PC should tear those militas apart. Their description would spread like wildfire though... they would be meta-gaming to enter any other walled settlement after commiting the crime.

This is JUST MY OPINION but I think this is the kind of clarification people are after. Am I right? Where/why am I wrong?

PS: It would be nice to see PvP return to South Cordor.

PPs: Cordor is alos the primary starting area... having bash-fights all the time is an ugly introduction

Wyjyn wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Counterspelling isn't IC?

To my understanding, amia has a bit of a WYSIWYG policy. The mages are not counterspelling, furthermore they couldnt counter spell two mages at once. Its problematic, if you really badly want cordor to be no PVP, just give it a solid reason.

I think the main reason people dislike the no pvp in cordor is because it seems like a city where pvp would be possible. Generally, guards respond after an event not before it. I would just take the extra step and make a really solid reason its no pvp to end the grey area.

I personally prefer Wiltuns method. Let them duke it out. Winner kills the loser, and then loser gets his ass whacked by the guards.

Locked for pointlessness.

Rules are rules. Follow the rules.

Much like the "Don't murder someone without RP and an Out", it's a rule that does not necessarily make 100% IC sense. It doesn't have to. It's an OOC rule in regards to your conduct as a player and restrictions upon what can be done in certain situations.

You want to play a rapist, but the rules prevent you from doing so? Too bad. Rules say you can't.
You want to play an idiotic criminal in guarded areas, but the rules prevent you from doing so? Too bad. Rules say you can't.
You want to swing your blade in places accustomed and prepared for violent adventurers? Too bad. Rules say you can't.

Very straightforward, guys. This thread is done. Follow the rules as straightforward.

Cordor Guards

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