AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Wound and Healing System

Last edited by Pony on Wed, Jul 16 2014, 12:35 PM, edited 4 times in total.

PvP and PvM Standard and Advanced Consequences Toggle System

The basic idea is to give players and DMs the option to adjust the PvP and PvM settings for encounters. Players have the option to change the setting once each reset. DMs can override the settings for events if they wish to. If the same type of light wound is inflicted twice, it instead activated the corresponding serious wound.

So the players can choose if they want to play Amia in the way we all know, or if they might want to spice things up with adding a bit of risk. DMs have the option to toggle the options for players, if they want, to give certain events or plots a bit more risk when the stakes are higher.

You can select one option for which PvM you want to play on, and one option on which PvP mode you want to play on. Here would be the options:

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1.) PvM Mode I - Standard

- As it is now. Characters do not suffer wounds upon death inflicted by NPCs.
2.) PvM Mode II - Advanced

- If this option is activated, characters can suffer wounds upon death from NPCs.

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1.) PvP Mode I - Standard

- As it is now. Characters do not suffer wounds upon death inflicted by other player characters.
2.) PvP Mode II - Advanced, Limited

- If this option is acticated, player characters can suffer wounds upon death from other player characters who have this mode activated.
3.) PvP Mode II - Advanced, Complete

- If this option is activated, characters can suffer wounds upon death from all other player characters. Regardless of what modes their opponent has activated.

Wounding System:

If a player character is killed in a manner corresponding to his advanced settings, a wound roll is made. A wound is a penalty that the character suffers for a duration of a time, which can stack if characters suffer more than one death.

Light Wounds last for one week unless removed. If three light wounds are already in effect, a serious wound is instead inflicted.

Serious Wounds last for two weeks. They can not be removed. If three serious wounds are already in effect, a character is critically wounded. If the same type of serious wounds are inflicted twice, it instead inflicts a critcal wound. The same occurs if a serious wound is already inflicted (like Severe Head Trauma), and the corresponding light wound is inflicted (Head Trauma).

Critical Wounds last for three weeks. A character suffers -3 to all attributes, -5 to saves, - 5 to skills and -20% to movement speed. If another wound is inflicted, the time refreshes.

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1. Wounding Table PvM (d100)
>= 0 No Wound
1-80 Light Wound
81-99 Serious Wound

2. Wounding Table PvP (d100)
>= 0 No Wound
1-30 Light Wound
31-90 Serious Wound
91-99 Critical Wound

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1. Light Wounding Table (d100)
1 - 20 Mildly Impaired Sight and Hearing (-10 to Spot and Listen)
21 - 35 Head Trauma (- 1 intelligence, - 1 wisdom, - 5 concentration)
36 - 50 Broken Arm (- 1 strength, - 1 dexterity, - 1 attack bonus)
51 - 65 Broken Leg (-1 dexterity, - 1 constitution, - 1 armor class, -10% to movement speed)
66 - 80 Broken Rib (-1 constitution, - 5 discipline)
81 -95 Broken Jaw (-1 charisma)
95 - 100 Serious Wound

2. Serious Wound Table (d100)
1 - 5 Light Wound
5 - 20 Severe Head Trauma (-2 intelligence, -2wisdom, -5concentration)
21 - 35 Shattered Arm (-2strength, -2dexterity, -2attack bonus)
36 - 50 Shattered Leg (-2dexterity, -2consitution, -2armor class, -20% to movement speed, -10 to MS and Hide)
51 - 65 Shattered Rib (-2constitution, -5 discipline)
66 - 80 Shattered Jaw (-2charisma)
80 - 95 Impaired Sight and Hearing (-20 to Spot and Listen)
95 - 100 Critical Wound

Healing System, Introduction:
The Healing aspect of the wound system has been expanded and revised to support medical oriented characters and support roleplay to a greater degree.

The wounds, including light wounds, are now harder to remove if completly untrained. But at the same time all wounds (light, serious and critical) are much easier to remove through healing focused characters when regularly attempting to do so.

This should both make healing focused characters more important both to raise dead characters to avoid wounds and to heal already wounded characters, as well as encourage healing focused roleplay.

As a small incentive to conduct such rp at the medical facilities of amia (such as the Salandran Temple, Temple of the Triad, Cordor Hospice, Caraigh Asylum, etc.) these also now grant a small bonus in the attempt to remove wounds.

The exact numbers will certainly require adjusting, only to be considered a guideline at this moment that I scaled by gut feeling. So take those with a grain of salt.

Healing System, Avoiding Wounds:

Healing Spells:

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- 2 modifier on wound rolls when casting Raise Dead, for every 10 levels of cleric
- 4 modifier on wound rolls when casting Ressurection, for every 10 levels of cleric

Healing Domain:

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- 1 on wound rolls when casting Raise Dead, for every 10 levels of cleric.
- 2 on wound rolls when casting Ressurection, for every 10 levels of cleric.
(Note: Deities with Healing Domain are Berronar Truesilver, Ilmater, Lurue, Luthic, Salandra, Sharindlar, Torm)

Healing Skill:

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- 1 on wound rolls when casting Raise Dead or Ressurection, for every 3 ranks
- 3 on wound rolls when casting Raise Dead or Ressurection, for Skill Focus: Heal
- 5 on wound rolls when casting Raise Dead or Ressurection, for Epic Skill Focus: Heal
(Note: Only Skill Ranks, Feat: Skill Focus,and Feat: Epic Skill Focus count)

Maximum Total for Clerics:

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Total possible for Raise Dead: -28 total on wound roll
Total possible for Ressurection: -41 total on wound roll

Maximum Total for Non-clerics:

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Total possible for Raise Dead: -19 total on wound roll
Total possible for Ressurection: -19 total on wound roll

Healing System, Removing Wounds:
Every 24 hours it can be attempted to remove one wound. Light wounds are cured first, followed by Serious Wounds and then Critical Wounds. Light wounds have a 50% chance of being cured, serious wounds a -20% chance, and critical wounds a -40% chance.

Non-Clerics:

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Cure Light Wounds: +0% chance
Cure Moderate Wounds: +1% chance
Cure Serious Wounds and Lesser Restoration: +2% chance
Cure Critical Wounds and Restoration: +4% chance
Heal and Mass Heal: +8% chance
Greater Restoration: +10% chance
+ 1% chance for every 3 ranks of Heal
+ 3% chance for Skill Focus: Heal
+ 6% chance for Epic Skill Focus: Heal
+ 2% chance in areas flagged as 'Lesser Medical Facility'
+ 4% chance in areas flagged as 'Greater Medical Facility'
(Note: Maximum Total + 34% chance)

Clerics and Druids:

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Cure Light Wounds: +0% chance
Cure Moderate Wounds: +1% chance for every 10 levels of cleric/druid
Cure Serious Wounds and Lesser Restoration: +2% chance for every 10 levels of cleric/druid
Cure Critical Wounds and Restoration: +4% chance for every 10 levels of cleric/druid
Heal and Mass Heal: +8% chance for every ten levels of cleric/druid
Greater Restoration: +10% chance for every ten levels of cleric
+ 1% chance for every 3 ranks of Heal
+ 3% chance for Skill Focus: Heal
+ 6% chance for Epic Skill Focus: Heal
+ 2% chance for Healing Domain, for every 10 levels of cleric
+ 2% chance in areas flagged as 'Lesser Medical Facility'
+ 4% chance in areas flagged as 'Greater Medical Facility'
(Note: Maximum Total + 60% chance)

Inflicting Wounds Via Rest Menu

Via the rest menu, you will also be able to select exactly what additional wounds in the three categories you would want your character to carry. Once applied, they can only be removed via the healing system or by recovery time.

While it may look a bit complicated on the surface, it actually falls together very neatly. There are three sets of wounds with different severity, and one system to avoid and one system to remove them. I will try my best to edit to make it easy to understand and read if anything is unclear.

The chances of what will be occuring, as well as the exact penalties are still open to be adjusted. For example, if critically wounded there should be a chance for arcane spell failure.

Aside from a few balance changes, and you having put "rip" instead of "rib" Im SO ok with this, 100% yes.

I personally cannot wait to get my first critical wound, and have Wicket limping around like she's made of glass.

The Salandrian temples going to be a big hub for rp now, and since they are neutral, I think it would be awesome to have apposing faction glaring at each other across the beds.

Changed rip to rib, and also added Yossarin's wish of being able to inflict your own wounds by choice via the rest menu.

This is the step in the right direction.

Hats off, Pony and whoever else worked on this.

All serious wounds should have 20% slower movement imo. You don't get to run with a broken rib, or a severe head trauma.

Also, only base healing skill should be counted, no items allowed.

Last edited by Pony on Wed, Jul 16 2014, 13:04 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Yep. "Note: Only Skill Ranks, Feat: Skill Focus,and Feat: Epic Skill Focus count" has that covered. I was thinking the same thing, of not wanting pocket healers who just slip on crafted heal gear to replace that type of characters. Heal gear is still useful to be able to quickly patch up wounded party members with 100+ healpack rolls.

The concept with the wounds is that until you reach the critical wound state, your character is still useful in combat to a very good degree. But the risk rises, which discourages you to simply pvp without a big need for it. The more often you risk your character getting wounded again, the closer you get to the "critical wound state" that will require you to take some serious rest time. I would like players thinking "Alright, we took a beating last night. If we risk another one, we might take a very long time to repurate. Perhaps we should take a few days to heal up, before we risk another encounter. Especially as we are not on our best right now." Or "let us fall back, and regroup to strike when the odds are not against us like this."

That unless you have a healer present, there remains a very small chance of getting a critical wound on a roll, has the purpose of them thinking "Is this fight really worth the risk or is this just a fight that serves no purpose except to shut that anoying git up?"

So a 10%-20% movement speed decrease on a leg wound is something that would make sense, but I would not want it on all serious wounds. The penalties for serious wounds alone should not be so great that it feels like your character will be no use in combat. Especially as you might not only have one, but two or three.

Dead wrote:

All serious wounds should have 20% slower movement imo. You don't get to run with a broken rib, or a severe head trauma.

I might be wrong about this, but something in the back of my mind is telling me that we discovered once upon a time that there can be problems when you screw with movement speeds. Though it may have been in an entirely different context. Sorry I can't say any more than that, it is just a fleeting memory.

Last edited by Pony on Wed, Jul 16 2014, 13:40 PM, edited 2 times in total.

Perhaps "Light - Moderate - Serious" is better suited to represent this than "Light - Serious - Critical". That in addition of us adjusting the names of the wounds, from "Head Trauma and Severe Head Trauma" to "Light Head Trauma and Head Trauma" or from "Broken and Shattered Rib" to "Cracked and Broken Rib" for example. Dead is quite right that a severe head trauma is much worse than what those penalties represent.

Consequences system! yay fully in

Good initiative. I think it's a solid idea.

I think the most important thing we need to get right is what effect the wounds should have, and how to best ensure they have that intended effect.

For example I would like characters with one or two serious wounds to be able to still participate and contribute in combat to a good degree, but have the clear effect that this is a huge risk for them so that they only do so if the stakes are incredibly high. Light wounds in contrast being just a forboding element that you can quickly tended to, but that clearly helps you to undertand there is risk. Characters with critical wound, are those cases where you are seriously penalized in your ability in combat, and where you sure as hell wont seek out another conflict, given another wound will simply refresh the full recovery time. Unless the world is about to come to an end and there hero rises from his bed to stagger into the fight, these characters would need to accept they need time to heal.

That in addition to making sure that given there are consequences, pvp in general is taken more serious and not the first option to every little conflict. As well as helping create an atmosphere where people consider fleeing if the odds are against them, or consider to surrender if they are sorrounded.

And lastly, making healer clerics are viable and very useful support class once more, and encouraging roleplay through that.

My only question is why is this optional? If two people are going into PvP and only one has this "on", the other gets off scott free, isn't that the problem we have with PvP? No consequences? With this, only the person who is willing to have consequences has any.

Great idea, but... let's make it mandatory.

Or... here's a simpler one (semi-stolen from another server I played on): Upon death (any death or PvP only death, up to Devs), Your STR, DEX, and CON are reduced by 4 or 6 points for some amount of time, a RL hour? 2? Until reset? This would allow for some limping around, and probably slow most folks down a little. It would also make them much more vulnerable to go picking a fight again.

The downside to any wounding system is just that... they are now vulnerable. Vulnerable to another attack, even if they weren't the aggressor the first time..

I would prefer to have it mandatory, but the optional aspect I feel is needed to make sure that those who absolutely hate the thought of their characters suffering consequences do not block the option for the rest. A small step in what I believe is the right direction is far better than none. It is a compromise between those who would like none and those who would like some.

I also have the feeling that if it is an option, it will actually be able to get some from the no-consequence camp into the yay-consequence camp voluntarily when they begin to see a rise in the quality of conflict rp, and begin to want to affect other characters as well. Regarding your problem between "off" fighting "on", there is an option that only allows the other party to inflict penalties on your character, if they in turn allow you to inflict them upon them. So those who play "off" simply have to accept their victories wont make much of a difference.

As to why I prefer this system over your suggestion 24hour strong penalties system is described in my post above yours. I do not just would like to see consequences, but consequences that have an interresting and contributing effect.

I have to say, I find this idea intriguing. It is a balance stricken between what we have now and what I also think will improve the quality of conflict-RP.

Speaking from a non-PvP standpoint, it also makes it easier to run DM events that are dangerous, without needing to spawn a large number of enemies at the PCs. If a PC falls once, they are already hindered. So there is no need to spawn numbers to present a greater challenge for situations that warrant it. There are plenty of DM events where PCs are raised two, three, four plus times. This would change the way we approach those events, and make them more immersive and believable. Well, the way I would in any events I ran. I'm sure this would be toggled on for them, should this be implemented.

And man, there was a particular event under a certain crypt that I would have loved a certain wizard coming out of with broken ribs and a concussion and head trauma. :twisted:

Pony wrote:

Quote:

but the optional aspect I feel is needed to make sure that those who absolutely hate the thought of their characters suffering consequences do not block the option for the rest.

Wait.... if they're not willing to accept consequences for their actions, why are they on an RP server?

I'm sorry, that sounded snarky... but, while I agree this is a huge step in the right direction, the optional part is just coddling those that want to play the "bad guy" or "hero" with no counterpoint and no consequences. If you're gonna go start a fight with someone IC, you damn well better be prepared to lose, and if you lose, be prepared for "something" to happen, not just skip away and forget the whole thing.

Most other servers (that I've seen) had some sort of consequences for death, here? Nothing. I think that should change, but I think it should be a global change... even something small, something that can be treated with RP. We can build up to more as the playerbase dictates.

Hmm.... maybe I autta have that coffee now... Sorry if I sound bitchy, not intentional.

Curious, Pony: why no -5 to MS and Hide on a Broken Leg?

@ Bidocks

It is just the way it is. It can be bad pvp experiences, being griefed, simply wanting a more casual style, or what ever other reason. But I honestly do not mind if there are some who have the option off. For me, I will pick pvm option 2 and pvp option 3 that everyone (npc and pc) could wound my character, simply because it would enchance my own game experience and those who manage to smack my character. If they want to return the favor great, if not that I am totally alright with that as well. For those who feel cheated if they can affect your character, but you not theirs in turn, there is pvp option 2 that addresses that exact problem.

But I would prefer this not to be a topic about those who might want to keep the option off. I finally get to have my character beaten up, and there will be enough I can beat up in turn. That is great, and that is what we should be focusing on. :wink:

@ Yosarin

The actual penalties are more placeholders right now than anything else, to give an impression of the severity and style. I did not invest the hours of work it will need to perfectly balance everything, because that is not something I am particularly good at and because with the help of the community it is a lot less work. For example, "Arcane Spell Failure" penalties for certain wounds are a must have imo.

I personally find the fail chances to remove wounds far far too high for Professional heal classes like cleric/druid on epic levels with s decent rank in heal.

I see consequences should be there but if you already seem a healer it shouldn't be that hard to remove them.

The system as proposed is optional for players. Should DMs be able to force these wounds onto players as part of their "hardcore serious" mode, even on players who do not otherwise opt in? I don't have an answer for the question, just the question itself, which I see as relevant.

@ Amarice

It depends how you look at it. You can repeat the 'treatment' every 24 hours. That means that your Salandran Healer with everything stocked in heal has a 40% chance to heal the character from a serious wound each day with a greater restoration spell. The length of the stay of a patient will rarely exceed three days when such characters are available.

If you want a high chance of success to remove these consequences in minimal time and effort, then you do not really want consequences. They are not consequences if they can be removed by the flick of a hand, which is the problem now. At at a certain degree of that, it makes this system reduntant and completly unenjoyable for those who support this idea. You also have to accept there are players for whom these consequences are far from as strong as they would want them. Hence I feel that if the mentality is we should find a solution together, we will also need to meet somewhere in the middle. And if that middle is too harsh for you, you do not even need to turn this system on.

I know I am certainly offering to compromise, and have made it as 'weak' as possible without making it reduntant. But watering it down until it serves absolutely no purpose is nothing more than a death sentance for this.

@ Yossarin

They can enforce perma death, and the concept of "serious mode" for certain plots has been well established. I do not see these consequences as reaching even close to permadeath, so I would say it is a clear yes. They can make use of this system when they feel there is need for a "serious mode" in a plot or event. As long as they let the players know, I do not see a problem. It worked so far.

I personally feel the same way, I just felt it needed to be brought up, at the very least to ensure it is constructed that way. :wink:

Pony wrote:

I would prefer to have it mandatory.

Yes, please. Mandatory.

If this system isn't mandatory I'm not exactly sure what purpose it even serves tbh.

Last edited by Pony on Wed, Jul 16 2014, 15:23 PM, edited 2 times in total.

It does not have to be mandatory to work. The Banites and Triadic Knights (taken as an example as both are dead factions) want to make their conflict more enjoyable and interresting. If they would just "rp" the wounds cosmetically, there would be no mechanic and nothing that was outside of their own control. Now when a good portion of their players turn the pvp option on, they are able to affect each other to a greater extend than just their own players control. There is a real fear of consequences, because there are real consequences. That has an enormous influence on gameplay and atmosphere. I know it would have it on me, because when I have that option activated what will happen to my character will be outside my control. A faction can actually mechanically need to withdraw to recover, an individual hero or villan might decide to stay out of a fight because it is too dangerous he is wounded once more now when a bigger event is ahead.

Edit: Those who have the option on, also do not know who else might have it on or not. This allows you to feel the risk of the possibility of consequences, even if the other side has it deactivated. You will automatically react in the manner as if he did have them activated. That is something else you do not get otherwise.

I understand that many prefer to get what they want and compromise as little as possible. But in this discussion it is essential to find a working middle ground and to be honest. This is the furthest we got in years to actually getting something done. Making this optional will be the only way to get a sensible system in for those who want it. So the question is not do you personally want to have a mandatory or optional system, but do you want to have a system at all? If you do not want consequences, and are trying to simply block for what ever reason, please do not do so. Making it optional is a sign of respect from the opposite side, so please show the same respect in turn. The last thing I want is for this to begin to sink, simply because one side decides it rather waters it down until it is redundant and the other will not agree to anything unless it is mandatory.

IMHO, I think that healers should rather reduce wound time, than heal it instantly and completely. Since even the best doctor can only help to heal the wound faster, rather to make someone healthy instantly (not taking into account healing magics of course).
So, for example, you will not take the wound itself into account, but rather time debuff for that wound. Which healers will be able to reduce (by certain percentage of maximum, up to 90-95% of base wound time - considering the rate of the wound) using those healing skills and spells.

So for example, if you have light wound with basic time of one week - which is 168 hours, and then come to healer, and it successfully heals you for like 60% - those means you will have 168 - 168*0.6 = 67.2 (minus those time you already spent before coming to doctor) hours left. And there should be a cool-down between healing attempts (like once per reset or something).

I like the idea very much!
Especially the increase importance of healing skill

And um... yeah I'd rather see it mandatory.

Great job Pony!

How does Regeneration fall into play with this system?

Currently it does not. Regeneration does not work like the other spells, so it would require it's own mechanic. We have to accept that if introduced, it needs to be done in a basic manner. While I am sure we coud write up an incredibly detailed system that takes into consideration all sorts of things, when it comes to scripting, this as it is would already be quite an undertaking. If it gets green light and would go in, we will always be able to add to it then.

If we make this too big, factoring in regeneration spells and items, influence of constitution stats regarding recovery time, possibility of job system ranks like anatomist contributing to healing attempts, possibilities of dr. frankenstein-ish practices that would allow necromancers to also heal in their own, we will never be able to script it. So at a point we need to focus on the three basic aspects. Everything else will be left for improvement suggestions in the future, if this is added.

The foundation are the basic wound system, avoidance of wounds upon raise and the basic removal of wounds through healing. Once we got that, we can begin to expand the system to take into account other sensible aspects.

A++
Book marked and keeping dice at my desk regardless of whether this gets implemented. This goes a long way in righting the wrongs we see, great work at shifting the paradigm, Pony.

Absolutely not manditory.

For pvp it'd make griefing too much of an issue and not everyone wants to be unable to continue hunting when having a stroke of bad luck in pvm. Not to mention lagdeaths/ crashes etc etc should not be penalized with consequences.

This system would be to augment rp for those willing to have it thus augmented, it's not going to be a forced upon burden for those that don't want it. As pony stated, some prefer Amia casual and some prefer it somewhat more hardcore and I support catering to both groups. Hence the system should be optional.

I do like the idea though, I am very curious to see what the fine tuned table would like like. As exemple I wouldnt support movement penalties as I do think that will glitch but would set toons with a leg wound to encumbered status instead.

I'd like it if others could see which wounds a character has as well. Most wounds are fairly obvious and it'd be very handy if I could see who suffers where in while in the client.

I would like to see this implemented if it can de done scriptwise.

Pony wrote:

Currently it does not. Regeneration does not work like the other spells, so it would require it's own mechanic. We have to accept that if introduced, it needs to be done in a basic manner. While I am sure we coud write up an incredibly detailed system that takes into consideration all sorts of things, when it comes to scripting, this as it is would already be quite an undertaking. If it gets green light and would go in, we will always be able to add to it then.

If we make this too big, factoring in regeneration spells and items, influence of constitution stats regarding recovery time, possibility of job system ranks like anatomist contributing to healing attempts, possibilities of dr. frankenstein-ish practices that would allow necromancers to also heal in their own, we will never be able to script it. So at a point we need to focus on the three basic aspects. Everything else will be left for improvement suggestions in the future, if this is added.

The foundation are the basic wound system, avoidance of wounds upon raise and the basic removal of wounds through healing. Once we got that, we can begin to expand the system to take into account other sensible aspects.

So, if a character has items with Regen, will they be expected to RP the wounds, even though mechanically they show full HP? I'm confused on this.

Hudson wrote:

Absolutely not manditory.

For pvp it'd make griefing too much of an issue and not everyone wants to be unable to continue hunting when having a stroke of bad luck in pvm. Not to mention lagdeaths/ crashes etc etc should not be penalized with consequences.

With this attitude and point of view it is pointless to do anything at all, because anything and everything can be abused and may cause problems when internet black out.

If we remain in "what if" and "it may" zone we're already gone.

Last edited by Pony on Wed, Jul 16 2014, 16:46 PM, edited 1 time in total.

@ Kurdak

Unless there is a wound that will reduce your hp like Liz suggested in the other topic, yes. The game being limited as it is, will show "uninjured" if you move your mouse across your character. You always have the 'hurt me' menu in the rest menu to wound your character if you do not want the "floaty health status" above your head.

If you are expected to rp wounds I am not touching with a ten-foot pole, and certainly not here so it can begin to derail this topic. Just as I aint going to touch upon if it is tasteful to play your 6 int character as if he had Einstein's understanding of physics. I think you can awnser that for yourself if you feel comfortable with it. But if you play with the system on, get a wound, and have the mechanical penalty, I do not see why you would not want to.

The lore side is another aspect. There were two or three suggestions about it in the other topic. But I do not want that in this topic. I will make one just for ideas on how to approach this from the lore in a seperate topic once we get there. It is not that I do not care about that aspect or that it has no influence, but I am careful that this stays on track and does not go up in flames after suddenly jumping from one page to six in an hour.

You may notice I post a lot here, very much expecting this topic to go the way it's predecessors did and trying to keep that from happening. :wink:

Already stated this would take too much time away from other projects that would benefit a greater majority of players. I know you're really keen on this, but it's just not practical at this time.

I think you can decide upon this once we have a good impression on how it would work, and how many would want to see this and feel it is important, Glim. There is no need to try to shut this down before it has been worked out.

If necessary, I will do my best to see to it myself. Will just mean I need to toss hak related stuff and custom content on the back burner.

This system has already been discussed the last couple times its been brought up and the staff won't approve a mandatory change, so it would only ever go in at something that's optional, which right then and there cuts the number of people who would actually make use of it down sufficiently to warrant working on other projects first.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, or attempting to shut down discussion of refinement of the idea, or anything like that. I'm just being upfront about what can realistically be expected of any sort of implementation.

Did you even read this topic? >.>

But yes, if necessary I will be working on this myself. There seem to be a good amount of players interrested, even if optional like suggested here. Enough to warrent it not being on the back burner for five years, if we get it figured out and approved.

Considering regeneration. I suppose this can be implemented if there will be so kind of system based on, well... let's call it "injury and healing points" for example.
So, each injury type and so on, will have certain cost of amount of points, that should be filled with healing points over time.
If we'll take (all further things will go just as example) light wound for like 1000 points. So right after you are injured you will have 0/1000 points to heal the wound, and there will be natural regeneration, that will heal one point per minute (there can other cost of injuries and time of natural regeneration of course, as I said - it is all just for example), and wearing regeneration item or having healing skill, or using healing spells will also either speed you receive those healing points, or just will give you a certain amount of healing points instantly. There will be a limit, of course, of how much healing points can be received in certain amount of time (like, just for example, you can receive no more than 5000 healing points per reset), though that limit will represent that so called "body healing limit" already mentioned above and should go as "bonus healing", while it won't affect natural regeneration that will represent "natural body healing over time" - just as we recover slowly from injuries IRL.
Though, even if it'll be somewhat more realistic, I also afraid that will be somewhat hard to impossible system to implement in the first place, considering how much scripts it'll require to run simultaneously.

No, so I do apologize if this was already covered. I did skim over your initial two posts, but nothing beyond that. And I don't mind if you work on it between projects either, but we really do need your talents on the Rejuve stuff as well.

Given I have an enormous distaste for scripting, and I love lego-ing in the toolset, I doubt that would be a big concern. :wink:

We can put that poll option to use. In the end, it's all about what the community wants. If the majority of the players want this to be mandatory, then make it mandatory. If the majority of the server wants this done sooner than some other project, then I see no reason not to.

Last edited by Wolfbran on Wed, Jul 16 2014, 17:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.

I am absolutely behind this idea, whether it's mandatory or not doesn't bother me, but personally, I'd like it to be, and I'd like to see a movement decrease for broken legs, hell if you break a toe you sure aren't going to be as fast, but, if it's glitchy then I guess not, however I still think it should be tried, and if it glitches, change it later.

It would also make a /great/ tool for the DMs, if they were able to toggle it on (they'd tell everyone first of course) that way you'd be fighting a more realistic number of enemies, and still be like "oh shit."

I like the idea, don't get me wrong.
I was just curious how the system would work with Regen.

Dead wrote:

We can put that poll option to use. In the end, it's all about what the community wants. If the majority of the players want this to be mandatory, then make it mandatory. If the majority of the server wants this done sooner than some other project, then I see no reason not to.

I rather not simplify it like that. You may not be wrong, but you are certainly not right.

If enough show they feel this is important and it would be a great addition they feel would encourage them to play more, then it will be something the team will want to work on. There does not need to be a poll that decides what we work on first, because the team will always put matters first that will enchance the gaming experience of our community, But of course we factor in other aspects with a bigger view.

For example, if this requires a massive amount of time that would take us as much as three other important projects, it is likely those get done first. It also depends if those who can make it feel like they want to invest their time in it or if they have people to help them out with it. It is not a paid job, and as much as everyone wants to make it more enjoyable, if you ask me right now to make another huge hak update I will simply say no. I am glad to work on custom content or area design at the moment, but I need a break from hak related stuff or I will go insane.

A poll also puts pressure on the team that is absolutely not needed. We already have enough of that. You honestly do not want to know how much time certain people on the design / development teams put into this kind of stuff for the server.

As for the mandtatory / optional choice, I do not feel a poll would be appropriate. Such choices are made on what is best for the server. Right now we already know there are quite a few people who have concerns if this would be mandatory. Even if that would be just twenty percent, twenty percent of our community are a lot of people. It also depends on how strongly they feel, because if that group could live with it is very different than if they would prefer to play on servers that allow a more casual style. That may seriously impact other players and hubs, if their friends begin to leave. Introducing this as an optional system, we can still consider to make it mandatory down the road. That allows them to get a feel for it, and us to improve upon it. If it gets introduced, perhaps in a year those who say no will be those who will want it the most.

So we have to look at it with the consideration of a lot of factors. The team has done a great job with that. I feel you should continue to show that trust, and just let them know if you feel projects like these have your full support and would enchance your experience on the server. They will take it from there. If the next fifty posts all are supportive from players who want to see it, it may get bumped up in priority.

Oh, and as a footnote, Glim is excempt from this. Feel free to pressure and bug him as much as you want. He is the laziest git of us all, who never lifts a finger in his role as a developer but just hangs out in game wooing wenches.

I agree my concern regarding PvP grief still stands. But, if you take that aside, this system may be the thing we're needing.

If we did go ahead with this, at least for the first while a more vigilant eye might be required on the DMs part. Other changes might need to supplement in with this, but I would say in retrospect, this with work from all involved CAN help mitigate the tendency to not show conflict RP the proper weight, which might help out against the burnout from it people feel (I'm guilty of feeling the burn out from this).

I fail to see how PvP griefing is an issue when there are other rules in place, such as the 24 hour rule, and the requirement of giving an out to pvp if they want it.

Would it be enough to acknowledge that use of the system could be made situationally mandatory? Like, a DM could say, "ok now, PCs, this plot we're about to begin is Hardcore Mode; everybody activate your wound system," or "ok there, PCs whose RP leading up to PvP I have been observing, I think you're not taking this situation seriously enough; either turn on your wound system or avail yourself of the right to walk away from PvP." I think that just knowing that the possibility of being situationally required to use the system might be a step in a positive direction.

A majority vote is the wrong kind of tool to use to determine if this should be mandatory. It's not a quantity issue, it's a quality issue. There may be only 10 or so people that don't want this to happen to their characters for fear of being griefed, and these 10 people -really- don't want it. We would then be imposing this on a minority (If the majority is in favor) of players.

Bear in mind, player griefing is only ever something that happens on a very small scale. Only ever is there a minority group of players who are the target of harassment. That's why the very nature of a majority opinion vote doesn't match. And you ask yourself, "How can this be griefing?" Consider how many players are killed in PvP in hunting grounds. How easy it would be for a group of 'hunter' PC's to stalk a certain few players, find ways to engage in PvP-- and then cripple that group's ability to ever grind and level up. What about when you kill someone, raise them-- and then 'forget' to de-hostile them only so that they die -again- to an attack of opportunity. Or what about when someone is OOCly raised? I often see a victim get killed a number of times in the same sequence of PvP. Original death, OOC raise, followed by accidental death. Or maybe they 'kill' the PC again so others can't just heal the near death player. Or maybe in an OOC raise, your summon is right next to them-- and kills them again.

I'm strictly against a mandatory system. Pony had it right in one of his earlier posts, with I think it was.. the second option? So that your character only receives consequences if killed by another player that has the wound system activated.

That way, if people don't want to have consequences themselves, they can't force it on others. And to those that do, they can happily interact with each other. Tougher to script, but a better PR solution, and a better functional solution.
~~~~

I do want to make something clear, though. Glim's mention of feasibility at this time is said because the DM team, designers, and testers are working full force to create and finish the major plots. Please don't think that the staff is discrediting or uninterested in this idea. It's only that.. well, for the past many months, we've heard players being very upset about particular issues revolving around the Reyes plot, and to conclude it, we need to really dedicate ourselves to it. I think there are very few that would rather say, "Let's have this wound system instead of moving forward and concluding the main server plot and repairing a server paradigm."

It's a cool idea, but we'll probably have to approach it later.

Last edited by Pony on Wed, Jul 16 2014, 21:08 PM, edited 1 time in total.

One idea that now has popped in my head is to use a blacklist system. If there is a specific player you feel regularly breaks the rules or griefs, you would be able to blacklist him so that just that player is unable to affect you with the wound system. This would only apply for your characters, and no one else. This allows you to use the wound system, but to protect yourself from particular offenders. If we go with the optional system this would not be a problem.

The second thing is that it might really be smart to have a cooldown system of say five minutes after being raised, that in that period you can not be 'wounded' again. That way, they can not just raise, smack, raise, smack you until you get the critical wound.

But with both I am unsure if it really is necessary, because you can just screenshot such problems and send them to the DMs.

Wound and Healing System - Topic Split

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