These effects do stack with like clairaudience/amplify, and they do not meld any skills off gear, correct? And does the 40 listen on the hulk stack with, replace, etc. whatever has been invested in the listen skill on the caster?
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Umberhulk skill counts towards the +50 gear cap and will stack with skills of a character. So in combination with some spells you will hit your max +50 skill cap yes.
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
+40 seems ok but it's really trivial to rock 90+ hide/ms.
so i guess it's good for seeing people that have hide but don't bother gearing for it in any capacity?
The why's of doing this have been discussed over and over. The short version is that people shouldn't get an auto-win from a scroll (w/e) vs a PC that has invested almost all of their skills, ability scores, and even feats so they can be superior at something.
I think feedback here is asking to make sure things are working as intended, and that it didn't break anything.
but thats the thing, w/o epic hide dunbak is undetectable by that thing and he basically wasn't trying. i could get more if i wanted, and he's still dex capped and upper 50's ac so he didn't give up too much for it.
sort of the problem with hide really. it's too easy to max.
in any case it's going to be a lot more fun to hide on dunbak now since i know for sure people can't just pop a button and see me.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
I still would have preferred removing Polymorph items and scrolls to see what the balance was like before stripping Hulk. I still would rather see us do that, just so we won't be so chickenshit to make the spell not-stupid(forms are saves suicide, Hulk has like DC 14 Gaze, Spider has DC 11 1-round Web, yet goddamn DC 34 or so poison). It's a mess and we can't touch it because everyone has access to it.
I can understand the Psuedodragon change, but our whole detector vs hider arms race is and has been out of whack forever. Yeah, it sucks to have an auto-win against any one archetype available. But if you're not a caster with AoE's or someone with Whirlwind, your only alternative is to stack ~90 in a non-combat stat on the off-chance you might fight an SD. Now and until we have some sort of blind swing option, undetectability will continue to = invincibility for a number of PC's, especially if your ping is godsawful. Not that TS really saved you from that before; any stealther worth a bucket of warm saliva knew that as soon as someone Hulks out, you spam KD because they have no saves or skills anything really from equipment.
Nothing seems to be broken mechanically from the change in what I fooled around with Polymoprh. It was a clean amputation.
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Joined: 10 Nov 2015 Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
My instinct comment is "how does this nerf Shadowdancer Casters"
-but y'know. Non-spotter's bias.
As someone who 'knows' the life of a stealther, I can confidently say this'll help a 'lot of people'. Just, you know.
Would look into more ways to balance out the spot vs hide skill arms race if we're letting this stick. Does UMD or a level 1 class feature deserve to trump an entire buildup? Nah. But err'ing on the side of caution at the junction of allowing one buildup to flourish, knowing that it will make another one harder to run with, is wise.
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Spotters by default have the advantage on all rolls. A maxed spotter will always see a maxed hider. It is how the system is designed.
On top of that it is laughably easy to get the max +50 Spot through gear using an assortment of fairly easy to get spells. It does require some investment but the tools are there. It is still less of a commitment to become a spotter than it is a for a SD or Rogue to become a sneak.
casters in general blow compared to non-magic builds.
Its true. Damage from Ruin and hell ball are eliminated by a heal pot and likley won't kill on their own. Nukes like earthquake are half dmg or save for no dmg due to imp evasion on everything and rings all over. Everyone who has half a clue has fourty plus to Fort, making things like horrid wilting really lackluster. And arcane defiance gear takes the meat out of missile storms.
Not to mention non casters that arnt terrible are treated as level 30 for dispelling potions, so good luck getting their mind blank off with your cl 28 or 27 dispell.
Going from dedicated casters to dunbak my weapon master it was alarming how much better and easier it is. Not to mention he never "runs out" of gas and has to stop and rest.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
Maverick00053 wrote:
Spotters by default have the advantage on all rolls. A maxed spotter will always see a maxed hider. It is how the system is designed.
On top of that it is laughably easy to get the max +50 Spot through gear using an assortment of fairly easy to get spells. It does require some investment but the tools are there. It is still less of a commitment to become a spotter than it is a for a SD or Rogue to become a sneak.
I'm not sure if you can say it's less of a commitment. Most of the classes that go the stealther route get a good amount of skill points per level, Rogue getting 8 and SD getting 6. Your average meeler has significantly less per level, poor ol' pure fighters getting a base 2 per level(we'll say most get 3 per via 13 INT for IKD, though), Rangers and Barbs at 4. Concentration, Discipline, Tumble Dump, maybe a 4th skill if you're lucky. It's not impossible by any stretch to get spot in there, no, but I wouldn't agree that it's less of a commitment for spotters to become spotters. Anyone other than a sneak class has tons more skill points to fool around with. The few times I've made a sneak on other servers I actually found myself running out things to invest in. Appraise and Bluff ftw. And yeah, we have a good amount of spot spells available, but we've basically counteracted that by now with all SD and sneak equipment out there. When I used the term "arms race" I really meant it in that way. The top spotters and sneaks will always be going at it neck and neck; it's everyone who's not either of those that I am concerned about. That was the, perhaps flawed, point of having Umber Hulk with TS and making it ridiculously easy to access. It might not have been a good or well reasoned point, but there it was.
It's one step at a time, I know, but this is the sort of thing that has a pendulum effect one way or the other. Personally, I liked the idea we had a while ago of scripting an actual "tremor sense" that would only ping moving sneaks or gradually reveal them as they stayed within an aura. Maybe we'll get there once we see how this pans out.
_________________
You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
Oh and let's add everyone having perma freedom all the time to the list. Or getting blanket immunities to some things va the DC request system like a ring of fear immunity to go with the imp evasion ring arcane defiance cloth freedom belt etc
Yep. There is going to be a lot of waiting and seeing.
SDs though do have that cool down on their HIPs which usually means death if they fight a WM or prepared foe. It isn't going to be like back in the day when we had spammable HIPs so I am hopeful. There is still TS out there but it isn't dirt cheap and easy to get.
casters in general blow compared to non-magic builds.
Its true. Damage from Ruin and hell ball are eliminated by a heal pot and likley won't kill on their own. Nukes like earthquake are half dmg or save for no dmg due to imp evasion on everything and rings all over. Everyone who has half a clue has fourty plus to Fort, making things like horrid wilting really lackluster. And arcane defiance gear takes the meat out of missile storms.
Not to mention non casters that arnt terrible are treated as level 30 for dispelling potions, so good luck getting their mind blank off with your cl 28 or 27 dispell.
Going from dedicated casters to dunbak my weapon master it was alarming how much better and easier it is. Not to mention he never "runs out" of gas and has to stop and rest.
The server is bigger than pvp. PVM with summons etc, casters rule the school. They also get access icly to a pleothra of tools that a non caster simply does not have especially in dm plots. Also those things you said above, you can only equip out so many of those at a time, the key is finding which save they didn't take care of. Casters are just fine. Sky has not fallen.
The server is bigger than pvp. PVM with summons etc, casters rule the school. They also get access icly to a pleothra of tools that a non caster simply does not have especially in dm plots. Also those things you said above, you can only equip out so many of those at a time, the key is finding which save they didn't take care of. Casters are just fine. Sky has not fallen.
Hey if you say so. But plots and RP stuff happens when people lose pvp to a weapon master, so yeah i'd say it evens out.
Also it is way easier to boss rush on my solo wm then my various casters.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
Not to digress this into yet another caster vs non-caster thread, but the main reason casters hide behind their summons from what I see is 1) because constantly casting spells has you stopping faster than any group wants to rest and 2) because by epic levels anything else is really unfeasible. Enemy's either got tons of Fort, tons of resistances, or Evasion. Not to say the sky is falling, indeed, but there is a point to saying we've boxed our casters in to a certain corner. The irony of constant question of "why do casters only [insert cheap tactic]?" is that there really is no point to doing anything else half of the time. Usually not in PVM and certainly not in PVP. And regarding what tools are available to mages in DM Plots, it really depends. Half of the time, there's some uber-magic barrier that stops the usual tricks of the trade from working, in my experience. Perhaps necessary so Wizards don't auto-solve every problem in 24 hours like in P&P, but I honestly think by this point and when it comes to plots at least, our DMs handle every class just about equally... for better or worse.
The only reason I mention any of that is because our handling of magic in general tangentially deals with the matter of the thread.
Maverick00053 wrote:
There is still TS out there but it isn't dirt cheap and easy to get.
Wizards you have a market to exploit! Go!
Unfortunately, this won't really make that much difference if that was the aim. It's not hard to get Shapechange scrolls; they're still found in our epic stores last I checked. Even if they were not, whether the person had to hike their ass to the Gauntlet to get a scroll or tossed off a blank scroll or two to a mage to scribe is going to matter very little to the sneak that gets auto-spotted by it. I mean, I guess you could thumb your nose at people for shifting into a dragon indoors, but otherwise the protocol is still the same for wanting to auto-spot sneaks. It's just on a slightly higher shelf. And the original shelf wasn't that high to begin with. Chest-level at best. Deep Fried Something is ~3k, a shapechange scroll is probably around ~8k I wanna say. The availability of TS will always be a bigger problem than the price of TS(or anything, really given our gold situation). And if availability is the underlying issue, we should have first removed those damned franken-snacks along with other polymorph items including Polymorph Scrolls and Shapechange scrolls first.
In general, we have a poor habit of solving everyone's problems with magic(mindblank potions, freedom potions, Breach items, easy UMD Scrolls) while simultaneously boxing in our classes that do use magic by limiting what actually works 99% of the time(Fort saves, Arcane Defense and Dragon plates, Improved Evasion, Spell Mantle items). On a certain level it's part of balance, but it's not an ideal situation to say the least. Because what ends up happening, as a couple times in our history, is stuff like this where a spell is so available to all classes that it is balanced or modified for all classes, the original classes that get the spell be damned. A ranger or wizard slotting a spell or making it one of your spells known as a sorc might not be the hugest expenditure, but it was still magnitudes more of a concrete expenditure than throwing handfuls of gold at Kampo's grizzled face for unlimited Polymorph.
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You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
it also had the side effect of making UMD almost essential to every build due to the excessive availability and thus necessity of many wands and scrolls.
why would i play a wizard when my umd wm can do anything they can
Joined: 10 Nov 2015 Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
Commie wrote:
...it also had the side effect of making UMD almost essential to every build...
Going to input, casually, before slipping back into obscurity: UMD actually isn't a necessity here at all. It's laughably easy to get along without it, actually; and it makes building hugely flexible.
This isn't to say that it's not nifty -- and there's some nice token boons it can give you if you've got a reliable scroll scribe and your build happens to have DR/Crit immune/innate tanky-ness.
However, at the core of it?
The only thing you should ever need from a non-potion magical item is Improved Invisibility. Especially when one accounts for the presence of readily available barely-nerfed Healpots.
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why not just change the name to "just tell me the fuckin answer i don't wanna do any work today" the spell
Quote:
Going to input, casually, before slipping back into obscurity: UMD actually isn't a necessity here at all. It's laughably easy to get along without it, actually; and it makes building hugely flexible.
This isn't to say that it's not nifty -- and there's some nice token boons it can give you if you've got a reliable scroll scribe and your build happens to have DR/Crit immune/innate tanky-ness.
However, at the core of it?
The only thing you should ever need from a non-potion magical item is Improved Invisibility. Especially when one accounts for the presence of readily available barely-nerfed Healpots.
dunbak struggles with some content due to my refusal to take umd. having a multi-use haste wand is far better then potions. death ward on a wand is amazing. imp invis is almost mandatory.
Go specialist diviner, get +1 more spell slots lose two very strong protection spell from illusions and your quite screwed. Imp invis is pretty much a must nowadays for summons and your caster to survive PvE or PvP. And please don't take PnP spells as part of the balance discussion, most of the time they do not even work. A specialist diviner by lore should be able to gather information, until you face 'Spell doesn't seem to work' -wall. Secondly, any class can make investments to get something, mine was made to RP power instead of mechanical one, otherwise the build would have been far different. The fact is, mages run our of juice and most of the time enemies have all sort of immunities to anything and everything, thus there is a must for WM or strong melee build that can cut those trash down, because mage can't survive alone in DM events that involve mobs. At least my experience.
I do, however, agree that taking TS out from those forms is a good thing. It was getting to a point that having high spot or other way of detection was pointless. Plus sneaking couldn't be done, I remember joining important and secret meetings where first thing was to check surroundings with umber hulk and then someone either stayed in that or not. Even in public events it happened, which was odd because normally there would be commoners too in such and being in a monster form might have been alarming. This is good for the sneaks out there and makes investing in spot, for example, more worthwhile. While shaoechange remains, I do hope something could be done that it wasn't available for everyone. Because then the spell gets nerfed, like many times does here.
I think it would be fine if shapechange still had it, but there wern't items that had it, so you actually had to cast the spell and dedicate a slot to it in order to do it. Becuase it would then give real utility to casters, which I feel they don't really 'have' at the moment.
Cause essentially any 'dex' build, that is, any martial build that has 1 of the 2 possible physical stats can become a 'hide' monster. The same can't be said of spot as wisdom isn't as common as dex as far as builds go and spot gear isn't nearly as available; you can't just go get +15 spot +15 listen +2 wis gear from some vendor.
And wisdom is one save unless you're a wisdom based character. Even if you arn't a dex based character dex is ac and a save. it's just a better stat.
edit 2; cause that's the problem. caster utility is just on spicy hot chili you buy from kampos or on a wand or on a potion or on some faction item (looking at you battle-tide and true sight casting insignias).
Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Location: Georgia, United States.
Commie wrote:
i agree 100% with Dark Immolation.
it also had the side effect of making UMD almost essential to every build due to the excessive availability and thus necessity of many wands and scrolls.
why would i play a wizard when my umd wm can do anything they can
Wands and Scrolls still limit you on what you can do. There are many spells that a Wizard can only do. (ie / casting Shade for the 25+ CR Shadow of the Void). Can't do that with a simple scroll. As well as, Wizards can cast say.. Horrid Witling with a maximum of 25d8 Dmg. WMs aren't allow to do that either. Scrolls over the minimum ability to a spell. Also, without Wizards you won't have awesome scrolls!
I don't make characters that can't spot all the sneaks. Two of them only have ten wisdom. If you invest in Epic Spot Focus and gear appropriately you can make yourself mathematically impossible to hide from, without a drop of wisdom.
it also had the side effect of making UMD almost essential to every build due to the excessive availability and thus necessity of many wands and scrolls.
why would i play a wizard when my umd wm can do anything they can
Wands and Scrolls still limit you on what you can do. There are many spells that a Wizard can only do. (ie / casting Shade for the 25+ CR Shadow of the Void). Can't do that with a simple scroll. As well as, Wizards can cast say.. Horrid Witling with a maximum of 25d8 Dmg. WMs aren't allow to do that either. Scrolls over the minimum ability to a spell. Also, without Wizards you won't have awesome scrolls!
yeah but wm's will hit harder then horrid wilting and attack 4/5 times a round. remember anyone who has a clue is going to make that save 95% of the time. so 25d8/2 and that's less then some non-crit wm hits.
and with you suggesting beefy summons we're right back at what casters on this server are relegated to do; buff up a summon and hope the AI doesn't go to shit when you need it to fight.
I don't make characters that can't spot all the sneaks. Two of them only have ten wisdom. If you invest in Epic Spot Focus and gear appropriately you can make yourself mathematically impossible to hide from, without a drop of wisdom.
is there a secret spot merchant or did you just mythal the shit out of some gear?
It definitely takes effort to build a spot set, but it's not impossible. Shadowscape, Endir's Point, and West Cordor are good places to get gear with spot on it that you can strip the extra crap off of and then mythal it into something decent.
Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Location: Georgia, United States.
Commie wrote:
LibrisMortis_666 wrote:
Commie wrote:
i agree 100% with Dark Immolation.
it also had the side effect of making UMD almost essential to every build due to the excessive availability and thus necessity of many wands and scrolls.
why would i play a wizard when my umd wm can do anything they can
Wands and Scrolls still limit you on what you can do. There are many spells that a Wizard can only do. (ie / casting Shade for the 25+ CR Shadow of the Void). Can't do that with a simple scroll. As well as, Wizards can cast say.. Horrid Witling with a maximum of 25d8 Dmg. WMs aren't allow to do that either. Scrolls over the minimum ability to a spell. Also, without Wizards you won't have awesome scrolls!
yeah but wm's will hit harder then horrid wilting and attack 4/5 times a round. remember anyone who has a clue is going to make that save 95% of the time. so 25d8/2 and that's less then some non-crit wm hits.
and with you suggesting beefy summons we're right back at what casters on this server are relegated to do; buff up a summon and hope the AI doesn't go to shit when you need it to fight.
As for the "beefy" summon, it was just an example that Scrolls don't do absolutely everything. They're no where near equal to a Caster. (Being Divine or Arcane caster).
And sure, for an average caster a WM will hit harder. If they don't use Time Stop + Spam Spells + GS or other ways to fight Melee builds. (Remember, you can't get Timestop scrolls). As well as you're correct, Fort is the most useful save. So if you absolutely know you can't exploit their Fort, then switch to either Reflex / Will. There aren't many Melee builds that have high Universal Saves other than Paladins / CoT. Which goes back to the same argument. An earthquake spell will deal far more damage from a direct caster than being used indirectly from a scroll of a WM.
head +1 con +fort +other torso +5 +1 con +fort broken boots +3 dex +4 dex freedom belt ringx2 +2 con + fort amulet +5 nat +1 con shield +5 +1 con gloves +1 con +2 dex 30 disc
you'll end up 3 points shy of the dex or str cap and 3 pts shy of the con cap. meaning 2 pots and you're at +12 with insane saves, likely pushing 40 in fort if not more.
anyone can make that stuff too. it takes like 0 effort and basically means you have to roll multiple ones to lose a fight. while some people manage to do just that time and time again, it doesn't change the fact that wizards blow when saves can get so high and arcane defiance/freedom/random effect immunities on dc gear/high end spells on factoin items/soup that replicates cornerstone spells/that other shit i named exist.
Quote:
As for the "beefy" summon, it was just an example that Scrolls don't do absolutely everything. They're no where near equal to a Caster. (Being Divine or Arcane caster).
And sure, for an average caster a WM will hit harder. If they don't use Time Stop + Spam Spells + GS or other ways to fight Melee builds. (Remember, you can't get Timestop scrolls). As well as you're correct, Fort is the most useful save. So if you absolutely know you can't exploit their Fort, then switch to either Reflex / Will. There aren't many Melee builds that have high Universal Saves other than Paladins / CoT. Which goes back to the same argument. An earthquake spell will deal far more damage from a direct caster than being used indirectly from a scroll of a WM.
the summons kinda suck though because they die when you do. gs? potion of reality. time stop? ok, you get 3 wards or perhaps you stack a hellball/ruin, meanwhile he has 9 seconds to mash that heal pot button and he's back to 100% health and you're down to wiltings and other shit that don't work. earthquake is also a ref save and since literally everyone has imp evasion as a feature or on one of the many items that grant it, it's always going to be 1/2 dmg save for 0.
some of the hand spells are nifty and you can get a knockdown with some fun tricks but it doesn't change the fact you can't keep up with the 30 or so dmg a round you need to deal in order to actually 'kill' the guy. meanwhile you're one round away from ultradeath.
Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Location: Georgia, United States.
It's 3:05 AM my time. So I'm just going to end on this. I've never had issues in pvp. The majority of my fights I've won. With exception to Corak ans Sullivan. So that must show HoJo sits on a 8 to 2 ratio. Majority of who he fights are melee. Wizards are underestimated because many don't work them properly
It's 3:05 AM my time. So I'm just going to end on this. I've never had issues in pvp. The majority of my fights I've won. With exception to Corak ans Sullivan. So that must show HoJo sits on a 8 to 2 ratio. Majority of who he fights are melee. Wizards are underestimated because many don't work them properly
sall good just a difference of opinion.
also i think you could take sullivan now. cor though? I think he just sort of 'beats' palemasters with his cl 29 sr buff, inane dragon form sr, immunities, and insane knockdown attack bonus. there are some builds just 'hard countered' by other builds.
at the same time cor dies to dev crit (or getting caught not shifted where he has 30 odd ac) because he doesn't have crit immunity and with the gear slots available (and inability to 'stack' stats it only takes the highest) he really can't get dev-crit down to a 1 only; every fight he's lost has been to a dev-crit dc 40+ char.
thats the truth though. hard assassins generally shit on hard clerics because they arn't too good in the reflex save department and spellcraft or improved evasion doesn't help for assassin skills. at the same time hard clerics, even fully buffed, can have a hard time with epic dodgers, they can try and 1 fish with implosion, 1 fish with earthquake (a natural dex class with full prog ref bonus and natural imp evasion isn't gonna eat an earthquake) or try and swing and hope they hit 64+ ac twice in one round.
thats another thing. why does everyone keep saying the planetouched races are 'minmaxed?' you guys know how easily they die to a banishment or word of faith? the earth planetouched weapon master ends up with a will-save of like eight. even if he 100% gears for will he's going to be on the bad side of a 50% save vs banishment. it's not minmaxed when the min isn't removed and is actually made worse by the race choice.
Joined: 08 Nov 2013 Location: Somewhere near the Atlantic (I hope)
Commie wrote:
you can just make some gear like this;
head +1 con +fort +other torso +5 +1 con +fort broken boots +3 dex +4 dex freedom belt ringx2 +2 con + fort amulet +5 nat +1 con shield +5 +1 con gloves +1 con +2 dex 30 disc
you'll end up 3 points shy of the dex or str cap and 3 pts shy of the con cap. meaning 2 pots and you're at +12 with insane saves, likely pushing 40 in fort if not more.
anyone can make that stuff too. it takes like 0 effort and basically means you have to roll multiple ones to lose a fight. while some people manage to do just that time and time again, it doesn't change the fact that wizards blow when saves can get so high and arcane defiance/freedom/random effect immunities on dc gear/high end spells on factoin items/soup that replicates cornerstone spells/that other shit i named exist.
Is this another one of those posts that assumes obtaining bags of epic gear is a walk in the park? If you custom-made all of that it would cost you at least five intermediate mythals, three greaters and three flawless'. And then I see Epic Gloves of Discipline (epic drop), Belt of Agility +4 (epic drop), and +5 armor and shield (removes the need for two flawless mythals but, guess what, epic drops).
Anyone can make that stuff...sure. In theory. A lot of us don't have the time, power, contacts or any combination of those three to make it work.
head +1 con +fort +other torso +4 +1 con +fort broken boots +3 dex +3 dex freedom belt ringx2 +2 con + fort amulet +4 nat +1 con shield +4 +1 con
A reduction of 3 AC and 1 Dex makes the entire list MUCH more easy to obtain, give or take a period of time spent just grinding for mythals unless you know someone with an excess of them willing to sell. The gloves are the only point of contention with me, really.
In short, I don't take issue with your statement that you can gear out specifically to make yourself good at resisting things. That's the point of the mythal system. I do take issue with the insinuation that a full loadout of epic gear is so trivial that everyone should already have an inventory full of the things on their wish list. You're not the first and you won't be the last, but it's quickly turning into a parody of itself.
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Joined: 10 Nov 2015 Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
Commie wrote:
hard assassins generally shit on hard clerics because they arn't too good in the reflex save department and spellcraft or improved evasion doesn't help for assassin skills. at the same time hard clerics, even fully buffed, can have a hard time with epic dodgers…
-but that's because Cleric's reflex save is pretty much its only hole. If you can break a cleric's AC, out AC their AB (discounting EDodged attacks), or outpace their heals/harms/SoV; they're not optimized.
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head +1 con +fort +other torso +5 +1 con +fort broken boots +3 dex +4 dex freedom belt ringx2 +2 con + fort amulet +5 nat +1 con shield +5 +1 con gloves +1 con +2 dex 30 disc
you'll end up 3 points shy of the dex or str cap and 3 pts shy of the con cap. meaning 2 pots and you're at +12 with insane saves, likely pushing 40 in fort if not more.
anyone can make that stuff too. it takes like 0 effort and basically means you have to roll multiple ones to lose a fight. while some people manage to do just that time and time again, it doesn't change the fact that wizards blow when saves can get so high and arcane defiance/freedom/random effect immunities on dc gear/high end spells on factoin items/soup that replicates cornerstone spells/that other shit i named exist.
Is this another one of those posts that assumes obtaining bags of epic gear is a walk in the park? If you custom-made all of that it would cost you at least five intermediate mythals, three greaters and three flawless'. And then I see Epic Gloves of Discipline (epic drop), Belt of Agility +4 (epic drop), and +5 armor and shield (removes the need for two flawless mythals but, guess what, epic drops).
Anyone can make that stuff...sure. In theory. A lot of us don't have the time, power, contacts or any combination of those three to make it work.
head +1 con +fort +other torso +4 +1 con +fort broken boots +3 dex +3 dex freedom belt ringx2 +2 con + fort amulet +4 nat +1 con shield +4 +1 con
A reduction of 3 AC and 1 Dex makes the entire list MUCH more easy to obtain, give or take a period of time spent just grinding for mythals unless you know someone with an excess of them willing to sell. The gloves are the only point of contention with me, really.
In short, I don't take issue with your statement that you can gear out specifically to make yourself good at resisting things. That's the point of the mythal system. I do take issue with the insinuation that a full loadout of epic gear is so trivial that everyone should already have an inventory full of the things on their wish list. You're not the first and you won't be the last, but it's quickly turning into a parody of itself.
+1
Been here 6 years, not one of my characters has that kind of gearset. Close, but not all of that.
head +1 con +fort +other torso +5 +1 con +fort broken boots +3 dex +4 dex freedom belt ringx2 +2 con + fort amulet +5 nat +1 con shield +5 +1 con gloves +1 con +2 dex 30 disc
you'll end up 3 points shy of the dex or str cap and 3 pts shy of the con cap. meaning 2 pots and you're at +12 with insane saves, likely pushing 40 in fort if not more.
anyone can make that stuff too. it takes like 0 effort and basically means you have to roll multiple ones to lose a fight. while some people manage to do just that time and time again, it doesn't change the fact that wizards blow when saves can get so high and arcane defiance/freedom/random effect immunities on dc gear/high end spells on factoin items/soup that replicates cornerstone spells/that other shit i named exist.
Is this another one of those posts that assumes obtaining bags of epic gear is a walk in the park? If you custom-made all of that it would cost you at least five intermediate mythals, three greaters and three flawless'. And then I see Epic Gloves of Discipline (epic drop), Belt of Agility +4 (epic drop), and +5 armor and shield (removes the need for two flawless mythals but, guess what, epic drops).
Anyone can make that stuff...sure. In theory. A lot of us don't have the time, power, contacts or any combination of those three to make it work.
head +1 con +fort +other torso +4 +1 con +fort broken boots +3 dex +3 dex freedom belt ringx2 +2 con + fort amulet +4 nat +1 con shield +4 +1 con
A reduction of 3 AC and 1 Dex makes the entire list MUCH more easy to obtain, give or take a period of time spent just grinding for mythals unless you know someone with an excess of them willing to sell. The gloves are the only point of contention with me, really.
In short, I don't take issue with your statement that you can gear out specifically to make yourself good at resisting things. That's the point of the mythal system. I do take issue with the insinuation that a full loadout of epic gear is so trivial that everyone should already have an inventory full of the things on their wish list. You're not the first and you won't be the last, but it's quickly turning into a parody of itself.
Well this the problem when you fight some "old money" characters. They got the good old shit. Not to mention DC gear woth questionable stats and abilities that will never be approved again or actually can't due to custom scripting.
hard assassins generally shit on hard clerics because they arn't too good in the reflex save department and spellcraft or improved evasion doesn't help for assassin skills. at the same time hard clerics, even fully buffed, can have a hard time with epic dodgers…
-but that's because Cleric's reflex save is pretty much its only hole. If you can break a cleric's AC, out AC their AB (discounting EDodged attacks), or outpace their heals/harms/SoV; they're not optimized.
Ya that's what I'm saying. Some builds just actuslly hard counter others. It's a fact of life. Not only that you can wait out a sov and whatnot. Or just truestrike ikd and win.
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