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drahgon
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 Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 2:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 May 2009
Location: Idaho
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and reality potions
_________________
Keelah Se'lai
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 2:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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 Does 25Cleric levels give +6Divine Favor now all of a sudden?
_________________
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 2:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Nope. Terra stated he didn't touch the cap. It's still +5 max.
_________________  "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 2:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Ok. So you reach +5 At level 20 then. Sounds rather ok.
_________________
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 2:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Yea, the five minute wait is a little annoying. Any way it can be changed so it only does that on the raise dead scrolls and not the PvP widget?
At the moment duels are pretty much impossible.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Ramika
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
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Terra_777 wrote: Yeah I can add a message no problem. I thought the whole blinky-redness would be enough indication though.  I was unaware of the blinky red stuff. >.> As for GS, I have already said I agree that it's a touch too short - but that's my only ish with it.
_________________
Logins: Ramika, Li'lMikachu
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ShadowRayne
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2010
Location: I don't even know anymore.
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Maybe make the duration the same as it was, just give it everything else that it does now.
_________________ You may clip our wings, but we will never forget what it was like to fly. Mahtan Tasadur wrote: Puff saved Cordor by climbing in a Golem's ass. <.< All fear the ass goblin.
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Ramika
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
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I can honestly handle it being a bit shorter, really. But ... Yeah. I think 30sec is just a little too short. For people who play clerics, this blows. Especially those who aren't combat oriented. I could handle having to pop a GS every so often if I am forced to heal someone/myself... but seriously sucks that I only have 30sec to pop it and run if I am, say, in the Abyss.
I get why it was done though. Just think it should be a bit longer.
_________________
Logins: Ramika, Li'lMikachu
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:18 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Ramika wrote: I can honestly handle it being a bit shorter, really. But ... Yeah. I think 30sec is just a little too short. For people who play clerics, this blows. Especially those who aren't combat oriented. I could handle having to pop a GS every so often if I am forced to heal someone/myself... but seriously sucks that I only have 30sec to pop it and run if I am, say, in the Abyss.
I get why it was done though. Just think it should be a bit longer. Well the whole thing was to shift it from a protection spell to a escape spell, if I'm guessing the devs correctly. You can still run abyss with invis pretty well, just avoid the overlords. I really see it as a way of bringing back Invisibility as the classic "I need to sneak around" spell. But that shall never be the case until Faded Balls and the bracers become a little bit rarer. As it is, you walk through Cordor and everyone usually has eyes swarming around their head. >.>
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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Palemaster wrote: Im a big fan of the GS nerf.
GS was a mistake by bioware in NWN. In real PnP rules its closest thing is ethreal shift. Which would make attacking/casting spells impossible.
Great escape mechanism still, as it should be. It's not a great escape mechanism. My level 25 cleric has (at maximum) seven level 6 spell slots (28 rounds=168 seconds=2.8 minutes) and seven level 7 spell slots (56 rounds=336 seconds=5.6 minutes) for a total of 8.4 minutes of Greater Sanctuary. For 1200gp, someone can buy 7 minutes worth of Umberhulk shape to chase me in until I use up all my GS. And I can't buff, so I'm dead. I say keep the duration and allow spells, but add a cooldown to the spell so you can't spam it. That forces me to use the 4 rounds I have to choose my buffs and spells very carefully. Or. Increase the duration to turns/level again and have the spell failure. Both is just too much. It is a -terrible- escape mechanism.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Rosencrantz
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Why was Tenser's changed..? I've never seen it cause issues.
Now if you cast it you basically are looking to die. The cons outweigh the hell out of the benefits. +10 AB and +10 Disc with a minor buff on stats isn't worth being a sitting duck able to do nothing. May as well have removed the spell. Now people will just use it unaware and die.
_________________
Main: Riz'rae Faerfyn
Others: Aelron Rilynrae, Aeronor Tel'vyr
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Halecta
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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This how Tensers looks with my 28 sorc/1 fighter with GMW, Epic Mage Armor, and Light Armor:
HP:267
AB: +36/+31
AC: 36
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Wow.
Lame.
_________________
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NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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Yossarin
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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I like all of the changes but I probably like them for the wrong reason: I like change for change's sake.
Since I don't play a PC at all, let alone one that uses any of the above changes, it doesn't affect me beyond knowing the slightly different limitations of PCs in a challenge.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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DerkDerkistan wrote: Palemaster wrote: Im a big fan of the GS nerf.
GS was a mistake by bioware in NWN. In real PnP rules its closest thing is ethreal shift. Which would make attacking/casting spells impossible.
Great escape mechanism still, as it should be. It's not a great escape mechanism. My level 25 cleric has (at maximum) seven level 6 spell slots (28 rounds=168 seconds=2.8 minutes) and seven level 7 spell slots (56 rounds=336 seconds=5.6 minutes) for a total of 8.4 minutes of Greater Sanctuary. For 1200gp, someone can buy 7 minutes worth of Umberhulk shape to chase me in until I use up all my GS. And I can't buff, so I'm dead. I say keep the duration and allow spells, but add a cooldown to the spell so you can't spam it. That forces me to use the 4 rounds I have to choose my buffs and spells very carefully. Or. Increase the duration to turns/level again and have the spell failure. Both is just too much. It is a -terrible- escape mechanism. No. Just No. I love that no spells can be cast in it. No bloody GS buffing woo! No more days of having Bigby's cast on me from out of nowhere. Least I'll have a fighting chance. Got no argument against the duration being increased slightly though.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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GS: Cry more. The spell was never intended to let you leap frog in an out of HIPS and let you sit in it extended and be able to be invincible for RL hours at a time to let you buff in 100% safety and then pop out catching your opponent flatfooted and then haste casting the spell again.
Now it lets you get away. It does not let you cast GS 30 minutes before a hostile encounter, RP, then click "hostile", immediately blink out of their sight, cast from 75 feet awya, re GS, and continue ad infinitum.
Dev: Cry more, and blame the fact that scimitars, kukris, and rapiers exist for why you will probably not ever get extra damage and for why Dev is what it is now. IF you add extra damage the math works out even more in their favor because they crit more often. Convince the devs to change S/R/K to 19-20 crit range and maybe, just maybe, you have an argument for giving them more damage.
The other solution was basically removing it entirely.
Tenser's: It was too good. t made you better than a cleric, better than a fighter and with no downside other than not casting, but you can still use all your high powered magic items to the point where it didn't matter, and all for one spell slot. You didn't eve nee dto spend an hour buffing like a cleric. One spell. Boom. Rape. +8 Dex, +8 con, +8 dex.
Temp HP if removed from Tensers should be restored.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Rounds/Level.
_________________
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NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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GS is a great escape mechanism. Do you know what Escape means? It means you cas GS and you escape.
As for the IC of spell changing, Nivo, you of all people are most aware of why magic can change, permanently, in the blink of an eye, forever. And so I am very confused as to why you are raising the fuss you are in this topic.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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Selvec Darkon wrote: DerkDerkistan wrote: Palemaster wrote: Im a big fan of the GS nerf.
GS was a mistake by bioware in NWN. In real PnP rules its closest thing is ethreal shift. Which would make attacking/casting spells impossible.
Great escape mechanism still, as it should be. It's not a great escape mechanism. My level 25 cleric has (at maximum) seven level 6 spell slots (28 rounds=168 seconds=2.8 minutes) and seven level 7 spell slots (56 rounds=336 seconds=5.6 minutes) for a total of 8.4 minutes of Greater Sanctuary. For 1200gp, someone can buy 7 minutes worth of Umberhulk shape to chase me in until I use up all my GS. And I can't buff, so I'm dead. I say keep the duration and allow spells, but add a cooldown to the spell so you can't spam it. That forces me to use the 4 rounds I have to choose my buffs and spells very carefully. Or. Increase the duration to turns/level again and have the spell failure. Both is just too much. It is a -terrible- escape mechanism. No. Just No. I love that no spells can be cast in it. No bloody GS buffing woo! No more days of having Bigby's cast on me from out of nowhere. Least I'll have a fighting chance. Got no argument against the duration being increased slightly though. My cleric uses 25 spells to buff. With my suggestion, I have to trim my selection down to...4. 8 if hasted (which my cleric does not have). My suggestion forces clerics to use their mythal slots differently, more wisely. No more +0 weapons and armor. I think it's very fair. 8 spells is not enough to save my life as a cleric. It -may- give me a fighting chance...maybe. But then I have to choose between boosting my AB or boosting my AC. Also, divine power keeps your attacks per round at 3, so it's further weakening clerics (but I am not complaining about divine power).
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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No more +0 wepaons and armor? Bro, just cast your buffs as you rest. Level 30 cleric, extended GMW, you have a +5 sword for a real life hour. Your unobtrustive buffs cna largley be cast at turns or hours per level as you rest and then you're fine. All you cast before combat is the rounds buffs which you do anyways even without this change. The sky isn't falling.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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But the sky 'Is' falling.
The conditions of the game Dramatically changed today, And the majority have not yet decided whether it's good/bad for themselves.
Our assumptions, calculations, Hours spend in RP have been altered.
People don't enjoy getting thrown out of their beds all of a sudden; it hurts to fall on the floor and it sucks to wake up.
So some of us are in Riot. Some of us are in Denial. And some of us have accepted it.
_________________
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Grymia
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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The sky isnt' falling. Yes, some strategies have to be thrown out of the window. Yes, some things will have to be changed in one's tactics.
Still..
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Oh please, save word slike "riot" and "Denial" for when it's actually warranted.
n.b. Restoration completely curing Dev Crit wasn't intended just like it's generally not intended for Curse Song, either, and should probably be fixed.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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ThayanBastard
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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Very_Svensk wrote: But the sky 'Is' falling.
The conditions of the game Dramatically changed today, And the majority have not yet decided whether it's good/bad for themselves.
Our assumptions, calculations, Hours spend in RP have been altered.
People don't enjoy getting thrown out of their beds all of a sudden; it hurts to fall on the floor and it sucks to wake up.
So some of us are in Riot. Some of us are in Denial. And some of us have accepted it. Deal with it. _________________ 
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762
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 3:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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Lovely idea on paper, until some noob hits you with a Mord scroll and you wonder why the hell you just bothered buffing in the first place.
I'm just glad I don't play a cleric anymore.
_________________
Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
Last edited by 762 on Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:01 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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TormakSaber wrote: n.b. Restoration completely curing Dev Crit wasn't intended just like it's generally not intended for Curse Song, either, and should probably be fixed. Thanks. It does not look so bad now.
_________________
BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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ValkinMulgin
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Location: Australia
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In all honesty i think that the nerfs are great, but GS seems a little unfair, well for me, if it only last thirty seconds with the lag i get sometimes the duration will run out before i get to run away lol
_________________ If i am not about when you are, but you would like to RP with Valkin, chose a time in red (GMT+8) / add character name PM me ICLY/OCC : http://teamup.com/ks662ccbfedda01eb0/
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Burningoutbright
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Location: Where the She-Devils roam
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Fixing the Restoration thing would be awesome. I was testing it a bit today with someone in PvP, and I had them test reading a scroll while blind, deaf and silenced and they can. >.> So, that kind of sucks if they can Restore themselves despite having everything wrong with them.  Given they survive the initial KD that is. But still. _________________  "The world takes and takes, even things that aren't offered. Finally, it gave us something back; I wish he was here to share it with me."
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Yossarin
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Very_Svensk wrote: But the sky 'Is' falling.
The conditions of the game Dramatically changed today, And the majority have not yet decided whether it's good/bad for themselves.
Our assumptions, calculations, Hours spend in RP have been altered.
People don't enjoy getting thrown out of their beds all of a sudden; it hurts to fall on the floor and it sucks to wake up.
So some of us are in Riot. Some of us are in Denial. And some of us have accepted it. Quite an exaggeration from my position reading all of the party chat plus what's here.
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:10 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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TormakSaber wrote: Temp HP if removed from Tensers should be restored. Yeah, it's gone. Which is why i was saying I was more bummed about that than anything. The no-items, I can understand, the +4 ac never came into play, the +5 fort was just so you'd have a slight evening against dev(which aint as much an issue now), but the temp hp, extra attack, and AB were what made it palatable. 2 of the 3 are gone now. When you have a set hp and 2 attacks per round, Admiral Ackbar screams his lungs out every time you reach to slot it.
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Ramika
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
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I think once the DevCrit restore thing is fixed, things will be groovy.
Still think GS should be just a -tad- longer if it's a "Oh dear god, run" spell. I'd even settle for a minute. (Why doesn't anyone whine about Acid Sheath being short?)
Tenser's? .... I don't use it, know nothing about it. I guess I'll just nod and agree with Tormak on that one.
_________________
Logins: Ramika, Li'lMikachu
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Its Svensk, he's dramatic.
Anyway, probably the easiest thing would be to block scroll reading when under a blind effect? I mean that for everyone and everything since it seems rather stupid for one to be able to read whilst blinded.
As for Tensers the attacks were removed because it was giving you two, and after i tested it thoroughly the potential for abuse was far to high given the lack of a cap on AB. Its been brought back into line with the other AB increasing spells. Tensers was never meant to be better than all of a clerics buffs in one click.
GS is fine. Its now your one stop escape spell.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Fabian
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
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TormakSaber wrote: Tenser's: It was too good. t made you better than a cleric, better than a fighter and with no downside other than not casting, but you can still use all your high powered magic items to the point where it didn't matter, and all for one spell slot. You didn't eve nee dto spend an hour buffing like a cleric. One spell. Boom. Rape. +8 Dex, +8 con, +8 dex.
Temp HP if removed from Tensers should be restored. As a pure mage pre change - I hade a 38ab Now I get around a 31 (and I can't quaff true strikes to improve it, which means anything more difficult than say Illithids, and this is a useless spell anyway) I think the change to the spell stats itself was no great detriment to it's usefulness, aside from the ab drop. Really, the only reason I cannot justify putting it back in my lists now, is the fact i can't quaff a heal potion. Because you have to let this spell run it's course or debuff yourself completely, this makes this spell a potential deathtrap. As for the strategies being altered, my assumption is that coupled with the bigby's change and GS change, most arcane casters will no longer take buffing spells, rather timestops x3-4 and igms's and move wholey into 'global thermal nuclear war'. It takes away the 'i win' of forceful (since everyone stacked fort for dev) *thumbs up* but it removed a way for people to come into conflict RP unbuffed. Before, there were complaints about OOC buffing with 'hostile' clicks. Now, I think BoS (buff on sight) is going to be the new MO.
_________________
~Science Transcript~
Bruce Kesselson: [Talk] Channeling a different color.. Vyashir!
Vyashir lndrire: [Talk] Purple?
Bruce Kesselson: [Talk] Prepare for purple!
Vyashir lndrire: [Talk] yes!
Last edited by Fabian on Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:25 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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But you can't really escape when you have Bioware TS so easily in your grasp.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Nivo
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Location: East of Elsewhere, West of Sometime
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TormakSaber wrote: GS is a great escape mechanism. Do you know what Escape means? It means you cas GS and you escape.
As for the IC of spell changing, Nivo, you of all people are most aware of why magic can change, permanently, in the blink of an eye, forever. And so I am very confused as to why you are raising the fuss you are in this topic. If I was fussy, it was because I disagreed with those saying that such changes should be ICly glossed over or dismissed. That said, perhaps what should have been was asking for the opportunity for the changes to be explored in an IC, lore-wise manner. I do not doubt it 'can' happen a moment, but the sort of things that can cause such changes are well out of the proportion and scope of the players, and tend to be of the realm-shaking variety. However, I have my theories.  And I know more than one theory has been banded about the Monolith tonight by the wizardly folk. So, the chance for RP from the changes was taken.
_________________
Playing:
Marcus Valis
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Cleric is overpowered.
Now it is not. I don't see the problem. You no longer have the perfect power class anymore and that means your a bit more on par with everyone else.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:28 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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MoshingChris wrote: As for Tensers the attacks were removed because it was giving you two, and after i tested it thoroughly the potential for abuse was far to high given the lack of a cap on AB. Its been brought back into line with the other AB increasing spells. Tensers was never meant to be better than all of a clerics buffs in one click. Well couldn't it just be capped to give at most 1 extra attack? At CL 21, I am sure I never got more than one extra attack from it. It is -not- appealing to go into melee with 2 attacks per round, given all the other things prohibited by tenser's.
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Fabian
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Cleric is overpowered.
Now it is not. I don't see the problem. You no longer have the perfect power class anymore and that means your a bit more on par with everyone else. I don't understand this. If you're referring to the change to GS for GS spamming, they can still GS spam as a 'blink' ability. If you're referring to them being able to GS and buff. That's like taking a longsword from a longsword WM and then saying it's balanced. I actually think, coupled with the healing pot change, clerics are More powerful and relevant to the playerbase. You can't spam a heal pot.. they can spam heals.
_________________
~Science Transcript~
Bruce Kesselson: [Talk] Channeling a different color.. Vyashir!
Vyashir lndrire: [Talk] Purple?
Bruce Kesselson: [Talk] Prepare for purple!
Vyashir lndrire: [Talk] yes!
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Ok heres the indepth for Tensers.
Tensers is now capped at level 20 wizard which is the true reflection of the spell given BAB increase is the same for all classes in epic. A pure cleric only recieves 5 AB from Divine Power, thus a Wizard now only recieves +10 to make them as a fighter.
The extra attacks were removed from both the Cleric and the Wizard in the interests of Balance.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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762
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Cleric is overpowered.
Now it is not. I don't see the problem. You no longer have the perfect power class anymore and that means your a bit more on par with everyone else. Cleric looks lovely on paper still, but unless you've played one extensively in PvP you probably have no clue at all how useless a class it is without GS. Before you had a chance against a Mordscroll equipped barb/WM/paladin whatever. Now you will lose 100% of the time.
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Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:41 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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762 wrote: Selvec Darkon wrote: Cleric is overpowered.
Now it is not. I don't see the problem. You no longer have the perfect power class anymore and that means your a bit more on par with everyone else. Cleric looks lovely on paper still, but unless you've played one extensively in PvP you probably have no clue at all how useless a class it is without GS. Before you had a chance against a Mordscroll equipped barb/WM/paladin whatever. Now you will lose 100% of the time. This.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Fabian
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
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MoshingChris wrote: Ok heres the indepth for Tensers.
Tensers is now capped at level 20 wizard which is the true reflection of the spell given BAB increase is the same for all classes in epic. A pure cleric only recieves 5 AB from Divine Power, thus a Wizard now only recieves +10 to make them as a fighter.
The extra attacks were removed from both the Cleric and the Wizard in the interests of Balance. If tensor's was a carbon copy of divine power, only minus the ability to cast, I'd be thrilled and would slot it again.
_________________
~Science Transcript~
Bruce Kesselson: [Talk] Channeling a different color.. Vyashir!
Vyashir lndrire: [Talk] Purple?
Bruce Kesselson: [Talk] Prepare for purple!
Vyashir lndrire: [Talk] yes!
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:46 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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MoshingChris wrote: Ok heres the indepth for Tensers.
Tensers is now capped at level 20 wizard which is the true reflection of the spell given BAB increase is the same for all classes in epic. A pure cleric only recieves 5 AB from Divine Power, thus a Wizard now only recieves +10 to make them as a fighter.
The extra attacks were removed from both the Cleric and the Wizard in the interests of Balance. I can understand all of that up until the extra attacks thing. It really doesn't balance too much to take the extra attack away from Tenser's, it just makes it suckier in the interest of looking like Divine Power. Which there really is no need to make it look like, as it's not, it just does a similar effect. In the case of Cleric, I understand. Cleric could get 4 attacks per round, then 5 hasted, same as a hasted fighter. So no extra attack meant they'd still be slightly worse off in terms of attack than a fighter, but who cares, they can still use their spells just fine while under the effect. With Tenser's on the other hand, the extra attack would mean they can get 3 attacks per round, 4 hasted, same as cleric now that the extra attack is gone. Without it, it just doesn't make much sense. In addition, mages can't use spell for the duration, so they're worse off in both respects. The two spells don't need to be treated as the same thing beyond the capping of AB at a fighter of the same level. They're two different spells for two different classes.
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:47 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Fabian wrote: If tensor's was a carbon copy of divine power, only minus the ability to cast, I'd be thrilled and would slot it again. ....Why? It would be sheeet for mages at that point. Well, a bigger heap of sheeet. As I said in my last post; two different classes, two different spells, two different sets of needs if they're gonna melee.
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Halecta
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Tensers as it is now is not worth using what it ment to do. HP is too low for Melee, AC is too low for Melee, damage is too low for Melee.
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ainjyll
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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Everything looks pretty interesting, but it does seem like the GS nerf went a bit overboard. It seems almost like it was turned into a regular Sanctuary spell only requiring a higher spell slot. The short duration I like. It keeps people from talking trash behind the curtain of GS. The 100% spell failure I like. It keeps people from Mord'ing and Bigsby'ing you to death in a GS-spam fest... betting that eventually you'll roll a 1.
The question I have is quite simple, though. If all the high level spawns on Amia were balanced to the standards of the old GS, Dev Crit, etcetera, will they be reviewed any time soon?
_________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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drahgon
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 May 2009
Location: Idaho
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I want to bring up the raise dead/resurrection nerf now, since everyone has been focusing on all the rest pretty much.
I have a char with 28 cleric lvls, yet because of this nerf, I am stuck there twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the 5 mins to end in order to ICly raise someone... I can understand nerfing the scroll versions so people dont just run up and raise... but from a cleric who a big portion of their class is healing and bringing people back from the dead? Its just depressing feeling like a failure due to OOC reasons, make it so the nerf is only to raise dead, or strictly just raise dead scrolls... dont nerf resurrection
_________________
Keelah Se'lai
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Ravenovf
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia (in Canada)
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I think Rayne brings up quite a few good points about raise and heal pots in Pve vs PvP, though I don't mind the rest at all. In fact I think the timer on using heal pots and scrolls in PvP should made longer.
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 4:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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The spells work. The scrolls don't.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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drahgon
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Posted: Mon, Oct 25 2010, 5:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 May 2009
Location: Idaho
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DerkDerkistan wrote: The spells work. The scrolls don't. I tried raising someone who was still glowing red, using a Resurrection spell... it failed popping up the message that they arent "ready" to be raised yet or such
_________________
Keelah Se'lai
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