AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Murex wrote:

Nobody should need to be OOC friends in order for the experience to be pleasant and fun.

you are right, in a perfect world. Even some ooc friends might get pissy over losing in pvp. I think it was a suggestions to make things go smoother.

Naivatkal wrote:

We're no longer talking about the Church of Bane.

Not specifically, I guess. But we are talking about reasons why we think factions fail, and what the people who want to try to take up the Banite mantle could do differently. I think it's a constructive conversation, and we seem to have managed to keep it civil. All to the good, IMHO.

inprison666 wrote:

Guardian wrote:

Silent2001 wrote:

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Players just need to chit chat more on an OOC level, get to know your enemies, and you may actually like being trounced by them. Hell, I used to serenade the old Banite Church on Skype as they chased Gorthod and his buddies down.

OOC chat ruins my RP mood. Like... always and totally. Can't say I am a fan of the above statement.

I'm in complete agreement of ooc chat ruining good rp, but knowing more of the players on skype at least could lesson any tension that may come from PVP that results between two players for any reason. It's not full proof cause some folks just don't like fair play and always expect to come out on top. Just a fact of life

The majority of complaints we deal with, as a team, is players treating one another like dirt, or less than dirt in some cases. I'm not saying you need to be friends, I'm saying you need to realise the people behind those dastardly Banites are people, not anonymous trolls.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

We're no longer talking about the Church of Bane.

Lock please

I'm not locking a thread that a faction is using to chit chat and organise. Just get back on topic.

It makes me sad that I've now realized there are players that oocly think of Banite characters as Banite players. I suggested to one player who was being somewhat belligerent in emotes towards Banites that it may hurt peoples feelings and is rude and he told me "I don't care about the feelings of Banites."

That said I was witness to some minor RP involving Banites on Ostland in the aftermath of the attack on Osthavn and I have to say bravo.

I've said all this before, but there's a certain core group of people on Amia that do not differentiate between evil characters and evil players. They take their crusade to an OOC, personal level, with rude tells and unnecessarily confrontational emotes. They do everything in their power, both as players and characters, to "win". There was a time when I'd be greeted with tells every time I logged in, along the lines of "Banite!" or more amusingly "BAAAAAAAANE". I'm rather glad that no one mistakes Luca for a Banite any more, though it saddens me that I -am- glad. It really shouldn't effect how someone's treated OOC. In my experience, it's also a very Amia-specific phenomena. The villains of the previous worlds I've played were generally lauded and applauded for being able to "take one for the team" and provide sorely needed conflict RP to break up the carebear campfire RP. The evils were usually appreciated for playing the unpopular choice for the story's benefit. Sadly, organized, overt and tyrannical evil will -never- be able to gain any meaningful foothold here until this core group really gets an attitude adjustment and realizes that a world without conflict has no point.

EDIT: This in no way is trying to support "stupid-evil" characters and pointless PvP or griefing..

NinjaClarinet wrote:

carebear campfire RP..

Hey now, don't knock the campfire, I have a lot of fond memories of that campfire =P

That said I entirely agree with the NC on this one.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

...certain core group...

I don't even know how to convey how strongly I agree with this.

And every time one of them slips up and breaks the rules and gets banned, I am so sorely tempted to crow from the top of Amia Mountain about it.

But I must maintain a semblence of class and discretion.

Yossarin wrote:

I must maintain a semblence of class and discretion.

Who are you and what have you done with Yoss?

Edit: Apologies, posted wrongly. Nothing to see here =)

I thought one shouldnt mention names of characters or players, but still, my bad, will edit. Thanks Svenk.

Edited away because of the above ^.^

Palin489 wrote:

So long as this is the mind of the people cliques will always exist

These "Clieuqs" as you call them are just groups of people who actually worked hard IG for something. Try it.

Silent2001 wrote:

I'm not locking a thread that a faction is using to chit chat and organise. Just get back on topic.

I was only teasing anyway.

*dons an 'I'm with poster* T-shirt and stands next to NinjaClarinet*

My agreement to their post having been stated, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out a couple of different (very possible) scenarios on Amia.

1) IC hatred: That is to say, single-mindedly attempting to obliterate a person or faction because it's what your CHARACTER would do, not because you have an OOC problem. Very militant paladins or priests of deities very opposed to Bane come to mind, though this scenario isn't restricted to one deity. The different between this and OOC griefing is that you have no problem with the person OOCly, and it's a legitimate IC response.

2) Loss of immunity: I'm going to just say this flat out - if I see someone playing as ANY character who only wants to just run around PvPing everybody with the flimsy excuse of 'oh my deity is a bloodthirsty god of murder and killing everyone durrrrrr' (which I have to point out that Bane is NOT) or similar, I personally will do my darndest to kick their ass. I don't care whether you're a paladin of Torm or a blackguard of Cyric, on an IC or OOC level, PvP-mongers who only exist for that purpose are, IMO, deserving only of scorn. Running the risk of another reprimand, this was my biggest problem with the previous Banite factions in general (with a few exceptions, naturally); To me and numerous others, it seemed very much as though they only wanted to play Banites as an ironclad excuse to kill everyone in sight (while breaking a few rules in the process, might I add).

That being said, if I EVER see anyone playing a Banite correctly (that is to say, an actual, for example, TYRANT instead of a Bhaalite Deathbringer wannabe) I will love them forever and ever, regardless of what my characters think.

DoomKnight wrote:

That being said, if I EVER see anyone playing a Banite correctly (that is to say, an actual, for example, TYRANT instead of a Bhaalite Deathbringer wannabe) I will love them forever and ever, regardless of what my characters think.

You make me want to play a Banite now. Which I have no time for! STAHP!

DoomKnight wrote:

That being said, if I EVER see anyone playing a Banite correctly (that is to say, an actual, for example, TYRANT instead of a Bhaalite Deathbringer wannabe) I will love them forever and ever, regardless of what my characters think.

Glad to hear it. :mrgreen:

Quote:

That being said, if I EVER see anyone playing a Banite correctly (that is to say, an actual, for example, TYRANT instead of a Bhaalite Deathbringer wannabe) I will love them forever and ever, regardless of what my characters think.

What makes you think you know how to RP a Banite properly?

Blanket statements with zero factual bearing are fun. Maybe you'd like to indirectly insult the people who played in the faction some more?

From my perspective I'd like to think the Banite faction has had some of the best RP'ers that ever existed on this server.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

Palin489 wrote:

So long as this is the mind of the people cliques will always exist

These "Clieuqs" as you call them are just groups of people who actually worked hard IG for something. Try it.

^

Needled24/7 wrote:

Blanket statements with zero factual bearing are fun.

To be entirely fair I have seen you ingame maybe 3 times and RPed with you once for you to say something so ignorant is quite astounding. Cliques aren't something I conjured up to be the badguy to my personal problems, they exist and have been discussed on multiple occassions and as far as I can tell they are a problem. But by all means try to get this thread locked by flaming.

I wasn't actually flaming but rather responding to one.

Needled247 wrote:

I wasn't actually flaming but rather responding to one.

I knew this was going to happen.. It was me using your words to respond to bob(the entire post is directed to bob). It literally had no relevance to you(except that you said it in words I wanted to quote), sorry for the lack of clarity.

Here's an interesting thought:

What do people feel is is a proper playing of a Banite?

I'd like to hear that from the next few people. I don't wanna hear the Dogma quoted but if you wanna use that as part of your explanation fair enough..

I've got my own perspective and experience on the subject so just wanna see what other's thoughts on it are.

That's a good question. I'm looking forward to seeing what people think.

Darthion.

So many people will crucify me for that answer, but his portrayal of a Banite was one of many excellent ways to do it.

Yossarin wrote:

Darthion.

So many people will crucify me for that answer, but his portrayal of a Banite was one of many excellent ways to do it.

+1

Yossarin wrote:

Darthion.

So many people will crucify me for that answer, but his portrayal of a Banite was one of many excellent ways to do it.

That was mostly before my time, I think. What was Darthion's "way to do it"?

Last edited by DoomKnight on Sun, Mar 24 2013, 22:11 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Needled247 wrote:

Quote:

That being said, if I EVER see anyone playing a Banite correctly (that is to say, an actual, for example, TYRANT instead of a Bhaalite Deathbringer wannabe) I will love them forever and ever, regardless of what my characters think.

What makes you think you know how to RP a Banite properly?

Blanket statements with zero factual bearing are fun. Maybe you'd like to indirectly insult the people who played in the faction some more?

From my perspective I'd like to think the Banite faction has had some of the best RP'ers that ever existed on this server.

I honestly wish you had also quoted the rest of my post, or at least this this;

Quote:

(with a few exceptions, naturally)

So that I wouldn't have to repeat that no, not everyone is like that, as evidenced by you specifically, someone who is, from my experience, one of those exceptions. But, sure, I'll go ahead and knock out two birds and reply to both you and Grymia, here.

Grymia wrote:

Here's an interesting thought:

What do people feel is is a proper playing of a Banite?

I'd like to hear that from the next few people. I don't wanna hear the Dogma quoted but if you wanna use that as part of your explanation fair enough..

I've got my own perspective and experience on the subject so just wanna see what other's thoughts on it are.

When you chose to worship a deity, to act upon their word and allow it to dictate your interactions with people (while this can be especially true for clerics, I'll concede that for your average fighter, a deity can be seen to not mean as much), you're essentially also chosing to shape yourself, at least partially, into their image. Bane is the god of fear, hatred and tyrrany. Therefore, my prefix justification for the following relies upon that his followers will also want to monger fear and hatred, and act as tyrants.

Fear: This is a matter that I'd prefer be recognized by players, rather than characters. When what we think of as 'fear' can be handwaved by paladin levels, a mindblank, or recognizing that you are separated from it by a screen, it becomes much less powerful. But what do people fear, anyways? When one thinks of traditional 'fear', they think of a list of simultaneously broad and specific things: Spiders (creatures that, to us, are strange and alien), the dark (wherein you have no idea what is there, and so your brain automatically creates a worst-case scenario), death (religion aside, the only people who can tell us for absolute certain what's there aren't in a position to tell us)...

In short, we tend towards fearing the unknown, or strange, or incomprehensible. Being gutted with a giant sword is jarring, sure, and the shock if it's unexpected might make you jump on instinct, but that's a fairly earthly thing (even if the result is usually one of the fears on my list up there). Another point that particular bit brings up, as a counter to my 'think as a player' part - Amians have no reason whatsoever to fear death. None at all. Die in a fight? Two thousand gold (which is also a pittance for an adventurer). BOOM. No problem.

What real fear involves in such a case is that feeling you get when you honestly have no idea what might happen, or venturing into the grasp of the unknown. It's the effect that horror mazes use all the time. Is that corner going to lead me to a murderdeathface hobo clown? Will this turn end with a nest of spiders? You don't know. That's what makes it scary. Fear-mongering, then, by extension, should be an exercise of finding (hopefully clever) ways of tapping into the innate and primal fears of an individual. Usually, this is up to the victim and what they are actually afraid of. But living in, say, a militarily-controlled state where you, your cousin, or your neighbor might be called in for questioning at any moment for no reason at all (also, incidentally, one of the hallmarks that I, at least, think of when someone mentions 'tyrrany', which I'll get to later)...THAT'S scary. Not ambushing some random wizard and asking them to kneel or die. Because they know what's going to happen.

Hatred: Why do we hate things? Well, let's take a person (and this is about to get dark, so if you're squeamish about crime I recommend scrolling down). If you hear on the news that someone raped and brutally murdered a dozen people, it's pretty hard not to hate them. I mean, that's a basic depravation of human rights. But what does it do for us? That red at the edge of your vision when you just want to haul off and punch someone? Well, that leads to another question; Are you more likely to punch some random Joe, or someone you have something against? We all know the answer to that one, but why?

When we really hate someone, it allows us to think of them as less than human. And if someone isn't human, then, well, it's pretty okay to just haul off and punch them, eh? This is essentially how racism works. 'Oh, hey, that guy, he's got pretty dark skin, and I don't like him! It's perfectly all right to deny him, say, a job'. Well settle down, made-up stereotypical racist guy.

However, YOU hating someone is a personal experience. If you're trying to PRODUCE hatred, you need to make somebody look inhuman and therefore more easy for other people to hate. Once other people hate them, you can get them under your personal banner under the excuse that 'hey, we all hate this guy, let's do something (what I say) about it'. Where else do we see this? Propaganda, for one.

That's the thing about producing hatred, and for followers of Bane in particular. You're not trying to hate someone, or make people hate YOU. You're trying to make people hate other people for your own ends. If you want to wipe out an elven settlement, start a propaganda campaign about how the elves are stealing our babies (and, heck, actually arrange for a few babies to be stolen; you're Lawful EVIL, after all) and garner enough support that the people in your city will up and wipe out the elves for you. This is vastly simplified of course, but I'd like to think it got my point across.

Tyrrany: What's the definition of Tyranny? Well, let's ask Mr. Webster, who defines it as either a type of rule in which all power is held by one person, or just oppressive power in general. And why not go the whole nine yards and do both, honestly? The trickiest part about being a tyrant is actually keeping your power, since those unruly peasants just love organizing rebellions. How do you counter that? So glad you asked!

See those two explanations up there? Fear and hatred? Guess what methods are awesome for keeping tyrannical power? Yep, those. If your people are A) Scared out of their wits that dissent will be punished in the most severe manner possible (like how treason is usually a death offense) AND busy hating the bemystra out of someone else, you get you lengthen the amount of time during which you have that power. And in the best case scenario, you get to die a god, essentially. But the main part of it is being clever about it. You don't get to be a successful tyrant by making yourself public enemy no. 1. Hatred comes in again; make someone ELSE PE no. 1, and sit there laughing maniacally while everyone focused on fighting your enemies rather than you.

That right there is what irks me about the banites I've had hate-ons for. Their methods for fear end up producing hatred down pat, but against THEM. The biggest part of successfully doing all of this is playing SMART evil. It's gets exponentially easy if society is involved, because Bane is LAWFUL Evil. You don't break the laws because you don't have to. You turn yourself into the ultimate rules lawyer and make the laws suit your purposes. And if you're a real tyrant, you just make the laws themselves. Some of this seems kind of like...ruling under an iron fist or similar. Wait, what was Bane's symbol again?

Bane as a Deity: Let's get to the meat, shall we? Bane is not the god of Murder. He's the god of the above. Which means he HAS to be smart evil to do the things he does. Allow me to include a few quotes straight off the wikis about Big B:

Quote:

Bane prefers to keep to the shadows, allowing his servants to carry out his intricate plans.

Didn't I mention something about letting other people hurt your enemies thanks to your masterminding their hatred or something while you stay safe? Naah.

Quote:

Preferring to plot and scheme, Bane rarely appears to act in a direct manner, instead acting through his worshippers and other various agents.

Same idea, different words, different wiki. This is coming from Amia's and the FR wikis, by the way, in case anyone wants to check it out.

Quote:

Among the evil gods, Bane's church is among the most stable and most powerful. While there was a time when the god encouraged sectarianism and violet disputes, that time has long since passed and today the god's Faithful are as likely to solve their disputes through reasonable debate than through show of force.

Banites not wantonly slaughtering each other, huh? Seems pretty reasonable to me.

My sarcasm and jerkassitude aside, believe it or not, I used to play a Banite. Not on Amia, mind you, because unfortunately, my first experience with the church can be generalized as 'either don't kneel and we kill you, or kneel and we kill you anyways because, why not'. And while I'll freely admit that the reason it feels like this is the only thing I've seen is because I've never been in the faction, it still irks me that it doesn't feel like tyranny. It feels like cyricists masquerading as Banites. Cyric who, by the way, is the god of indiscriminant crazy murder and one of Bane's worst enemies.

The tl;dr version - if you worship Bane, you need to focus on the aspects of his worship that work best for what he stands for. Don't make enemies, make friends who have no idea how evil you actually are or, at worst, unwilling allies who still fight with you because you have them convinced they've got bigger fish to fry because, hey, you're really no threat.

Until you and your vast political power secretly take over the world...

Mind the disclaimer that, as Grymia requested, this is all just my opinion. Everyone has their own style of play, and I'd rather not come off as the guy who runs around telling everyone 'you must do it THIS WAY', even though it likely came off just now that I did. Roleplay well, everyone, and thrive.

Darthion easily made the largest impression on me as an Evil character. I remember him walking into Cordor square, and every conversation would stop. People would whisper, "Shit, that's him." And everyone would find a way to leave. As a player who didn't know anything, it was incredibly impressive.

A true Banite, at least in my interpretation, is a character that not only inspires fear in others, but understands that it is a boon to society. That by keeping its people fearful of the Gods, and of the land's human rulers, that they can be safe and flourish.

My /absolute/ favorite style of Roleplay is religious-political roleplay. Church dynamics can be incredible in a Banite faith. Now, I'm going to use a 'real-world' example, but I want you to take it with a grain of salt. I'm in no way trashing religions by comparing them to an evil society:

When I think of a Banite, I think of medieval catholic priests. The kinds of people that inspired great fear of the Lord's wrath into townsfolk. Who could say and do anything they wanted, because THEY were vessels to God. And to cross God was to face fear and wrath. I think I have a more neutral outlook of Bane and his faithful anyway, but this is my favorite take on Bane. If I didn't already have way too fricken many characters, I would have made a Banite like this.

A -really- good example from a series of books and movies is a show called Pillars of the Earth, looking at the Bishop. Pillars of the Eart Trailer -- "For my church dear God, I would do /anything/."

My ideal Banite is actually a non-combatant.

Someone who has so much -fear- involved in harming them that they don't need to raise arms against another being. Because you just don't -kill- a priest.

Last edited by Galenson on Sun, Mar 24 2013, 22:18 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Liz wrote:

That was mostly before my time, I think. What was Darthion's "way to do it"?

Everything about Darthion was intimidating: his appearance, size and build. As a result, when he said do something to his fellow Banites, people did what he said.

Where his predecessors were sly and manipulated events in the shadows, Darthion was the kind of Banite to literally stand in the middle of a major road and say "Fuck off. This is Banite Territory."

Needless to say, Everyone knew him... and everyone was scared of him: you got all the tough shots in Cordor who always said "he's not so tough" but that's because when they went after him, they did it with 10 people at their back. The fact that it required 10 to 11 people to go after him on average says that he instilled fear wherever he walked.

He wasnt stupid however: his Banites had a non-hostile agreement with the Salandrans for example.

The only criticism you could really put on him was that PvP followed him wherever he went. He instigated his fair share, but always gave people a chance to walk away. It was more that everyone wanted to beat him up that PvP was drawn to him like a magnet.

Darthion and the Balmors were the reason my toon Jack has a metal arm. Jack was a tough bastard, but he learnt his lesson against them.

Last edited by Guardian on Sun, Mar 24 2013, 22:13 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Galenson wrote:

The only criticism you could really put on him was that PvP followed him wherever he went.

I hardly see this as a flaw. Especially with the pansy-ass "ask before do" PvP rule.

Galenson wrote:

He wasnt stupid however: his Banites had a non-hostile agreement with the Salandrans for example.

*Smug face* Metalien Sikth made that treaty happen :mrgreen:

lol

Edit: But yeah, that's a very valid point. A smart Banite is one who knows where peace can be of use to him. For example, Darthion understood that being at peace with the Salandrans meant he and his church had easy access to medical aid, without questions asked.

Darthion is indeed how I picture a proper banite. I'll freely admit that I was sometimes frustrated, bordering angry at just how difficult it was to do anything that went against him because he was not only good at PvP, but at everything else too. Over time I realized that he did an incredible job for the server in playing a much needed antagonist who was actually frightening and represented a very real threat to the other characters and players. Every PW needs such a char. Not too many of them, but at least one, in order to thrive with meaningful conflict.

And for that to work, it requires that the commuity as a whole accepts that we can not win in everything. We take and give. If not, things get one sided and the losing side leaves, taking the fun with them.

How does one go about inspiring fear to one who has nothing to lose, even if they die, get decapitated and then 5 minutes later get up and walk away like nothing ever happened?

Maybe back before a large population of players began OOCly hating the Banites (like 3-4 years ago), people were actually willing to keep an open mind about it. They roleplayed things like fear, and stuff.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to make someone fear you, who just wants to kill you or die trying; especially when death means nothing, and right now, that's pretty much most of the server, and on an OOC level too, might I add.

I'm interested to hear how you're supposed to inspire these negative emotions into people when the only methods of providing true loss to someone makes them all call you a cyricist(i.e. killing innocent people). I'm also interested how torturing or any other sort of RP furthers that agenda either.

Some might say.. "oh, why don't you manipulate Cordor, or something; change the game, make powerful NPC's and politics swing your way." Don't you think we've tried to do that? If you don't think so, maybe you shouldn't bother commenting on this thread. It has been done largely unsuccessfully numerous times.

Needled247 wrote:

Unfortunately, it's impossible to make someone fear you, who just wants to kill you or die trying; especially when death means nothing, and right now, that's pretty much most of the server, and on an OOC level too, might I add.

Just before some nitpick points out we're drifting away from the topic I'd like to say that I fully support this.

People will never, ever know fear unless two things happen:

An exceptional character like Darthion shows up again

"Death" will change significantly - Which is something I am fully digging for for some time now.

Last edited by IronAngel on Sun, Mar 24 2013, 22:33 PM, edited 1 time in total.

It's not like you can't ask for DM help and approval in hiding someone's corpse or keeping them in detention until they get rescued - if ever. If it was all kosher, I can't imagine why DMs would refuse. Serious Mode should be available to anyone upon request.

Joon is certainly terrified of Banites. I'll cower when you come, don't worry.

I will admit that I liked Darthion as well. He did play intelligently and provided considerable RP before bringing in the inevitable PvP. Which brings me to the problem that he brought to the Banites and has existed ever since.

Seeing the faction operate from the outside, the majority of Banite RP may be well and good, however the only RP that a majority of non-Banites see is three or four seconds of conversation before PvP ensues. Lets face it, stumbling across a formation of Banites, being told to kneel or die, knowing already that even running away is grounds for PvP and allows them chase you down and kill you anyway, why bother? That sort of thing is the only interaction many players see of Banites, why then do so many Banites cry that they are soooo misunderstood about their RP?

It's gotten so stereotypical that it's really hard to take any Banite seriously anymore. Afterall, it always just boils down to PvP based on the flimsiest of RP, I already know how it turns out. Banites randomly make trouble everywhere they can, and seem to PvP just as randomly. Then the entire server reaches it's limit of Banite asshattery, and pwn's them and the new castle they just built. How many times has this cycle repeated itself in just the last four years? And no one has caught on yet? really?

Now before everyone takes my opinion as a personal attack, it is my own opinion based upon what I see of Banite activities as an observer and not within the faction itself. It a representation of the public image many players and myself have of what the Banites are in general. If anyone doesn't like this image of their faction, it gives those that care a starting point to change that image.

So this may be a kind of tricky question to answer tactfully, I recognize, but... what happened to this guy, who was apparently so awesome at playing a Banite?

There's a 24 hour holding rule, and at that point, you're essentially griefing someone who's going to be let free anyways. And pardon my french, but I think when people lose on amia unfortunately, since theres zero loss of any sort, they just end up getting even more upset and wanting to kill you, rather than what they should be getting (which is afraid) because quite simply put, they lost nothing and they want revenge and it costs them nothing to get it.

Quote:

Seeing the faction operate from the outside, the majority of Banite RP may be well and good, however the only RP that a majority of non-Banites see is three or four seconds of conversation before PvP ensues. Lets face it, stumbling across a formation of Banites, being told to kneel or die, knowing already that even running away is grounds for PvP and allows them chase you down and kill you anyway, why bother? That sort of thing is the only interaction many players see of Banites, why then do so many Banites cry that they are soooo misunderstood about their RP?

I think the "kneel or die" is an extremely brash example that has hardly ever happened. I've never actually seen it myself in any other context then if someone had insulted the church, or otherwise asked for this.

As someone who recruited over 60 players by educating them about Bane, on Audrey, I can safely say, that I would talk to anyone seriously before ever thinking about PvPing them. Over 95% of the time, any PvP that was initiated, was brought upon by the other party. It might've been for me being a Banite, and me standing their little precious forest, or whatever, but I was never the one who was like ARGHGHH GET THE FUCK OUT DIE! I was always like, Well, I'm not going to just roll over and die, I was actually here talking to someone about something.

Quote:

It's gotten so stereotypical that it's really hard to take any Banite seriously anymore.

This happened two years ago, and I think it's largely a root cause as to why fear as a concept of Amia is completely impossible to achieve. It's the immaturity of the players to actually see past maybe one or two bad experiences (which to be honest, I dont even know where your examples are coming from but we did have 50+ players in the faction). I for one, have almost always been a courteous player and the term "Banite asshattery" is something I hear a lot from people who are part of those who lost a PvP they had initiated themselves at one point. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I had nothing to prove. My PC at the time could kill anyone on the server without trying. So could Darthion. Yet we still had people who would just trash talk us into PvP time and time again and then after they did all that, they would whine incessantly like children when they lost.

Liz wrote:

So this may be a kind of tricky question to answer tactfully, I recognize, but... what happened to this guy, who was apparently so awesome at playing a Banite?

I spoke to him a few months ago, and it seems he got mostly caught up in RL but I think we all know there were other contributing factors to it (much like the ones in my post).

Liz wrote:

So this may be a kind of tricky question to answer tactfully, I recognize, but... what happened to this guy, who was apparently so awesome at playing a Banite?

A case of muling stripped his char which lead to him permakilling it rather.. oddly. ..
He was also a designer/ tester. And started to flaunt the updates before the updates were in, he wasn't to co-operative with the dm team on that point. He wasn't even playing on the server anymore and thus the team decided to permaban him. He waa really an awesome player.
But in the end of his career he was just hanging around to cause trouble.

Am I the only person who remembers the side of Darthion that PvP'd constantly for little to no reason at all without even offering IC outs? I nearly quit the server within my first month playing because he and the Banites confronted my character and said "You can either come with us so we can sacrifice you or we'll kill you right now."

Ahh, yes. I've two points to make on this subject!

My first is that for this kind of fear-filled environment to work, it requires some cooperation. Its difficult on a server of player characters, where people are generally heroic and brave.

My second major point is there are a lot of other ways to inspire fear in a person rather than simple physical harm. Involving other players as collateral, in my opinion, isn't Chaotic. Not immediately killing them, but something like, "We'll see how funny you think this matter is when your family is in chains." Or, "If you will not serve the Lord Bane, than your children will." In my experience, characters tend to have a large sense of self-bravery and in most cases don't bend out of fear of their own self-preservation. However, when faced with moral dilemmas such as getting others involved, they tend to be very protective and much more fearful, if not for themselves, for that other person.

With Haan, for example, I would threaten a certain someone's family in order to strike a much more pure sense of fear into a subject. And I often never even had to deliver. Make the threat real enough, and player's imaginations will do the rest for you.

Also, if people are willing to die for a cause, obviously their lives aren't as important as their cause. So find a way instead to jeopardize their cause, rather than their lives.

.................................

The team did not ban him. I did.

... I probably shouldn't have asked. Sorry.

Last edited by RaveN on Sun, Mar 24 2013, 22:55 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Hackums, while your post is largely constructive, and I realize mine is largely destructive, can you really look at this?

Quote:

"We'll see how funny you think this matter is when your family is in chains." Or, "If you will not serve the Lord Bane, than your children will."

How or when is that ever going to work on Amia realistically? I realize you're just trying to give examples, but 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of the time you're going to say stuff like that, people are going to laugh at you since they don't have a family on Amia anyways. Maybe with NPC's it would make sense, because then you actually know someone is going to taken the threat to heart since they know fear, but unfortunately with most people, an invisible pixel is even less important. I agree with others getting involved, you might have your answer, but then you get people who whine about Banites being Cyricists, and then you have a giant cyclical problem.

Why do I need to threaten someone who's not there when you're right there? How does that even make sense anyways. Is everyone supposed to be a superhero who only cares about everyone other than themselves?

We have found how to resurrect the Banite faction: Everyone make a Darthion.

Hackum's point is to be creative and thoughtful with it, Needled. Surely you can grasp that and not fixate on the example he provided.

Palin489 wrote:

We have found how to resurrect the Banite faction: Everyone make a Darthion.

to many chiefs and not enough indians.

Bini wrote:

Hackum's point is to be creative and thoughtful with it, Needled. Surely you can grasp that and not fixate on the example he provided.

We are having a discussion. I'm sure he'll understand my post, as he read the one before it. If he is upset with the discussion, he can discontinue it, and your commentary is not required.

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