Political intrigue and conflict are both fun, but they're separate entities. One drags on forever and ever and ever (and Gerald is still doing it) and the other is mean, gritty, and actually has people on edge when they leave city walls because they think they might be attacked. It requires you to take risks to participate in, and helps create role play around the solving of a problem in which people are at risk of injury or death.

I play a character who is, in fact, scared to enter some parts of Cordor unescorted by a Law Knight, but part of the problem is that this conflict is only DM based. There is no room for player based conflict because literally everyone hates you OOCly when you do it regularly.

And then we just sort of... emote at each other about progress when the player leaves. And that's all we do. We basically hug each other and tell each other that everything is cool. And it is.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

Telling people how to play their characters is just demanding more of that "racial paragon" nonsense. I would like to see real characters and that attitude does not encourage that. Stop taking everything the player's handbook says as "the only way" and you'll probably appreciate differing concepts more.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

It's actually a pretty funny comment when you remember that a fairly large portion of Elven NPCs in Winya are (allegedly) evil.

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Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand

Discord: Bhaalorian#5715

Already said this but:

We're playing in a specific setting, most Elves follow a general way of life. Playing outside that is your right, but it is also your responsibility to understand, you are playing differently from the norm of the race, and that's going to clash.

I know for a fact Tuomas especially now goes a good way off the rails, because of his fairly serious mood. In spite of that, I still play him that way and recognize he goes off the norm, and instead work to through his actions try to do what Magiros desires, to some failing and some success.

Actually the Winyan NPC are not evil.

That said... I do not want to spoil everyone's "fun" but we get a little off track here. Let's let the topic of how elves should or should not be played rest for now and get back to the original topic. As said there is no policing of alignments for our normal non requestable races. Though it may happen that NPC react to unusual or extremely out of line alignments, if the show obviously.

With that said... let us try to get back onto the original discussion of rules and problems with them. And the above mentioned is not in the to rules as to be requested.

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And I'm not discouraging people who play to that racial archtype, only the people who say "you should not play your <race> or <class> in any way other than <overused stereotype>". In fact, I'm taking it a step further and trying to discourage people who tell a player that they are playing their own character wrong because they play something differing from the canon source on the general attitude of a species.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

Now that his is out... please... back to to the original topic and constructive discussion. I already elaborated that there is no rule about the standard race alignment and the back and forth of personal feel of what is preferred won't get us anywhere.

Cute kitty doesn't want to have to extend her claws tonight.

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Maybe if someone who's been keeping regular tabs on this discussion was to make bullet points of each of the problems and concerns put forward by the playerbase, and even some that have become apparent during the course of this discussion, then we can work towards sorting them out rather than continuously losing track.

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Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand

Discord: Bhaalorian#5715

I second Richard's sidea, grab Bullet points of the most valuable ideas which have come from this and see if we cannot summate to this point and go from that.

Okay so...

- The first concern was a misunderstanding of grandfathered charas having to submit a "late" request.
That one was cleared up.

- Then there was feeling requests are unfair/an uphill struggle/make people uncomfortable.
There is a seperate topic for that now.

- Then there was a more structure ease to how to do requests/limitations etc.
There is a topic for that now aswell.

-Then there was the concern of the classes and PrC which are not default for NWN needing a request.
This seems still open!

-And the concern that there is a player vs. DMs at times and a mistrust towards the staff
That is partly open still... partly meddling with the unease to make requests topic.

I think I got it all. I left some stray discussions out. Though I guess:

-Evil Factions need DM love too

can be added.

*ninja edit*

It was also mentioned the rules, especially PvP rules are due for an overhaul.

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I think what you may have missed is:

- the overall leaning towards higher policing of things in general, not just requests and races, but of "legitimizing" RP and DM intervention being so necessary to do so.

- the discussion of democracy/dictatorship in regards to policing and the structure of the server from admin down to player as a whole

- the apparent disconnect on the DM team of ruling and feelings and how it translates to the player base effectively or not effectively



Just a few I thought might be prudent to keep tabs on! Also, BoB, were you talking about me when you said vitriol? I'm not feeling attacked, but it came after mine, and I actually think I'm so much more calm and relaxed than I have been in years. Maybe I'm wrong though! I know I'm promoting certain points, but I am being respectful I hope.

These are just some things I would like to say for the purpose of articulating them myself. If the player base has the desire to dispute or refute them, I'm okay with that I suppose. But I'd like to at least state the problems I've felt are pretty glaring as of late.



As an aside, I feel my attitude to things as a player has not been in the best direction. I am going to be trying to remedy this, because I would rather contribute the narrative we're all experiencing than spend my time complaining in the background (which I frankly do a lot).

I've also noticed that a lot of my posts have seemed pretty outright hostile, and I apologize for that. I would, however, like to create an actual dialogue for the problems the server is facing. Threads like this are good for the server, but I think I and people reading this thread need to take a moment to re-read our responses before we post them, and then be ready to edit out jabs at people or the "well fuck you" attitude I've been posting with lately.

And no, I'm not presuming to speak for how anyone in specific other than myself posts. I just realize that threads have been getting locked instead of continuing a dialogue for a reason, and I would like to change that.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

On the topic of conflict; the only way to make conflict enjoyable is make conflict that's worth enjoying and not purely based around your skill in PvP. Which is a common misconception that PvP = conflict, when it isn't. It should be a story between players, factions or whatever else that illuminates the humanity (or lack thereof) of your character(s) and how they respond and act in a given situation where both parties are involved.

Like Laura and Grim in Tarkuul. Two high priests with vastly opposing ideologies. But you don't see me imploding him, even given the chance.

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Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand

Discord: Bhaalorian#5715

On the topic of PvP, I'd like to echo bobofwestoregonusa's sentiments and those posted in his quote; I've partaken in quite a lot of it on Amia, and always found it an enjoyable rush to pit your characters against one another. However, as a long-time player of games like Blood Bowl (one of the most infuriating games you may ever play, praise Nuffle) I've always entered it having considered 'what if this goes horribly wrong?' and come to terms with that before I fight.

And lose I often do, sometimes to tactics that I'd rather not entertain myself, yet it's often as the victor that I feel the worst. I frankly know I can take a hit, I can see my character die, be mutilated/sacrificed/tied up/whatever because I have that level of detachment; I'm here to input a character into a story, not, as bob adequately and hilariously put it, 'masturbate' with my own inventions. I want to contribute, to oil the cogs of the machine and provide a story for more than just myself, and if the cost of that is the sense of pride I've invested in a bag of pixels on a screen then so be it.

Specifics aside, some of the times I've left this server nearly enraged have been after winning PvP and seeing the mental acrobatics people pull to seek petty revenge. Accusations of being dishonest, of using only token RP, ignoring the 'outs' rules, even accusations of cheating, characters immediately returning from the grave to seek vengeance. It saddens me that people take PvP as such a hugely personal affront because I'm here trying to stay detached and immersed and I do not want to deal with OOC hassle from someone who can't handle losing. I want to believe we're all on the same level here, but when it comes to those genuinely edge-of-your-seat situations I've been proven wrong time and again.

So where do we find ourselves? In a sterile environment where many are afraid to engage in real conflict, where OOC bad feeling can lead to questionable second encounters involving other players. Where people will be avoided or shunned for playing abrasive characters who actually have a chance to move things forwards, and will thus be discouraged from doing so because of the controversy and burnout associated with it.

This isn't news to anyone. It's a sentiment that's been thrown around here for years, sparked endless debates and yet still persists as a problem. I'm still unsure how much progress we're making in tackling it.

Only just got on the forum due to being hooked in Diablo 3 for a few hours.

Yeh, and that's great, Amarice, I'm actually in the midst of making one to play with you guys because I've taken note of your enjoyment for the deity and RP.

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MAURICE "THE JUGGERNAUT" GRAFF

Thank you for the feedback on how to better present the idea with less confusions. I mean that genuinely, not with any condescension or snark. I'll repost it in its own thread at some point when I have time, closer to how I intended it and remove some of the distracting elements that detracting from noticing information that was present in it that explained (I thought!) some of the other concerns mentioned.

Now, to work for 10 hours! So, I won't be responding to anything that requires more than a very slowly phone-typed paragraph, at best, for that amount of time.

Haha, "Councillor", I like that. It took me a second to realize you were talking to me though. Ahem.

So I agree with the idea of guides, this is totally awesome and I'm encouraging Letum to do it either way. It doesn't clearly answer my question though (and I am going to unashamedly remove any specifics from it so that the topic isn't derailed) - do you think that players should be able to create characters however they like without requiring any knowledge of the lore?

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Mathus, Void Apostle of the New Moon

To answer this:






A few sections are bolded for emphasis. Granted, that's for regular characters produced by neverwinter nights. Special characters of course need to be requested due to the special lore behind them and that the dm staff needs to know what special mechanics would be needed for a character like that. But to start on this server with zero lore, it's possible. It's how I started. The only material d&d wise i had was an old 2nd ed dm guide. You dont need to know the lore, however it behooves you as a player and your character to be able to learn the lore once you step foot on the isles.

Small suggestion... since the rules do seem to be outdated... how about making a new post maybe sticky it.... and let the "players" talk over a few rules at a time or the other crap that needs to be sorted out... rules was an example, many to almost everyone agree's they need to be worked on...

I say this cause, the players/dms.... people here who play Amia -can- discuss things with out ripping each others throats out... and since this is somewhere we (all) enjoy... we can figure and hammer this stuff out rather quickly... and this way, the players get in a say and give suggestions and not just a handful of dms who by the way sound like they do more biting each others heads off...

Oh whats that old saying? Two heads are better then one, and three is even better? something like that...

Example!!!

Existing Rule 1: blah blah blah broken...

Existing Rule 2: blah blah blah broken...

Existing Rule 3: blah blah blah broken...


------------------------------------------------------------------
Player 1: Rule number one isnt bad but ...... example, this that.....

player 2 etc.

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Braller Thunderbeard: The Dwarven mini-Jesus with a porn star name. Blasphemous.
Dante: "He is likely to heal you as he is likely to smite you."

This is a neat question. At first, I'm sure, people will read it either thinking it a loaded question, or having a gut reaction that says, "Well of course a little lore is needed." But I'm actually going to answer your question with a "Yes."

Before I answer, I'm going to read through each of these 'Rules' lists:
1.) Basic Amia Rules

I think some people might find it surprising that it's written so clearly.



This is interesting too, in that it almost seems contradictory to the previous statement. It's difficult to consider and balance the words 'expectation' and 'requirement'. I think the two can be carefully different. And if someone who literally knew nothing of what an Elf was wanted to play Amia, Neverwinter Nights offers a few very basic pointers in the character creation process.

This does also say that there are reasonable limits on what can and cannot be played without approval. I believe that this ends up becoming a matter of debate when we narrow it down to specific cases, at times, but we do have request-necessary races and concepts. And while I wouldn't say that players are required to know lore, they should be welcomed to understand it. And if they still desire to play a character that is separate from the lore-standard (But still within the realms of possibility), that they should at the very least recognize that it's outside of the norm. Of course, outside of the norm isn't the same as bad. And if a player knows that it's outside of the lore, and still desires to play that concept, as long as it's lore-possible, it shouldn't be the subject of chastisement from staff. Players may end up exerting a kind of peer pressure (But we can't really control or account for that), but I've been of the strong belief that the staff in particular should always consider and protect openness and character freedom/choice.

I understand the conclusion you're trying to urge, here: that only Siths deal in absolutes, and that if we're going to require any lore for certain concepts, that there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. And who manages over the line? I get that. I don't think I was personally making any argument otherwise.

I know the majority of the DMs put an enormous effort into your work. I know you need to deal with stupid shit on a regular basis. You need to deal with stubborn hotheads. You need to deal with people who do not want to budge on certain issues. At times, it is likely you can not help but think they are so small that it is difficult to understand why it seems so important to them. I have no doubt, the last three days have been so much trouble it feels it is not worth it. You may have read so many posts, responded so often, that the sentiment that the conduct towards you is unfair, inconsiderate and simply ungrateful can easily pop up in your mind.

It is no fun to have every statement of yours filtered through subjective filters and taken apart piece by piece. I doubt there are many players who currently feel like they’d love to be a DM.

But while Disco may own the server, it belongs to all of the community. DMs, devs and players. You accept the responsibility to run this server. What you say goes, but if you begin to disregard that responsibility, then you are no longer fit to be DMs. Now, I am not saying that has happened, but I want to make it clear I feel there are very clear limitations. If the community has concerns, it is your job to hear them out. It is fully understandable that you put limitations on it, like asking for polite discourse, certain issues not being priority, or asking for patience and consideration. At times, it may require to respond to issues that feel like a waste of time. At times it may need you to suffer through some inconsiderate bullshit. But these topic have a very important purpose. It is a filter, to get to the core issues and causes of feelings of discontent, which will help you make things smooth and fun again. And it makes sure problems are not pushed beneath the surface, to become a storm of issues hard to deal with later on. Like it has with this.

Finally, it is not just a game. For many, it is a community that enjoys a game. For some, it becomes a passion or a way to deal with difficult times in real life. If you begin to get to know members of the community, you will realize how true that is. I am sure most have. It is really nice to think that this place can be that for some people, and hence it should be even more important to us to make sure it remains a place people can truly enjoy. One of the reasons I am so tenacious here, is because there are friends of mine on this server who really could use a spot of enjoyment like Amia at the moment, and it just does not provide it to them anymore.

With that said, I will be taking a break from this topic. I will read it through completely again in the next days, and then I will write a check list of what I feel are the important points the way Amarice did. I am exhausted, my brain no longer functions properly, and I am sure a few of you can use a break from my posts too.

I tried to post this this morning, but the thread lock prevented me from doing so in a timely fashion. Sticking it here for posterity, but apologies for the weird flow.

Haxxor: I appreciate you discussing this topic with me and I am enjoying myself. I agree that those rules are both super clear and unfortunately also very contradictory. So, rather than debate the minutiae of something poorly phrased I'm just going to keep asking you questions about how it should be done so something constructive can be crafted from this discussion rather than just tearing down what is.

So here's question (string) #2. Do you think that as a player I would have any recourse if another player decided to make a "New Moon monk" and acquire the Aura and all that while actively refusing to read anything I've written or ask for in game nor OOC guidance from me? Would I have cause to step in if I had retired Mathus and had somehow become a DM? Would I be required to reason that their lore was valid no matter what, even if they didn't bother to make any of their own?

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Mathus, Void Apostle of the New Moon

Hackums said what I was trying to say much better.

The sky is blue, water is blue, gravity is working, 4X Gold still tastes horrible and the Australian dirt is still trying to kill me. That confirms to me that the apocalypse has not come and everything is right in the world.

Chill people. No point worrying over first world problems.

Now, with that I'm going to log in with my Favoured Soul...



[edit] The above probably requires a little justification, just so that I don't come across as a sarcastic ass.

I've been around for a very long time: Cordor used to have a Temple of Torm. Brogdenstein used to be a town. The Abyss used to have Tanarii shifters who stripped your items. That's how old I am. Because of that, I've got quite a few grandfathered characters. Here's a few examples:

- A human Favoured Soul of Salandra
- An Azer
- An Orog with an original monkey grip widget. I was the second person on the server (the first player however because the first was to a DM's character) to receive it, before the penalties were introduced and the DC cost significantly lowered.

These characters (as well as many other failed characters in my vault) also have items you would never see on amia today: Thayvian crafted items, yowler's eyes, map room portal gems, the fire giant king's sword, rag dolls and explosives to name but a few.

To be quite frank, some of these characters such as the Azer are better left to the server's antiquity: they are the product of the time and are best left in the past for good reason.

Others I don't ever wish to log in with again simply because I know they will be streamlined with current trends. (the Orog with the original monkey grip widget) and,

After much review, I have come to the decision that some of these grandfathered characters need adjustments to fit them into the current FR setting (Jack Galenson) to save me from embarassment. I was very young when I made these characters 10 years ago and, to put it simply, with maturity comes retconning the "what the hell was I thinking" points.

Do I think if I approached the DM team for assistance with altering Jack's character that I would lose the character as I know him? Probably not. They may make me alter his build (I wouldn't complain: Amia's changed since his build was developed) and pay some hefty Dream Coins to "drag him into line" but I would still have my character. He would still be grumpy Jack, his soul is still damned to Alicera Veheer when he dies and jerks would still lean on his pillar to make him grumpy (I've noticed Jack's pillar is back. Nice touch with Cordor's update guys.)

It's because of this that I think people are way overreacting. Times change. Come whatever may: The sky is not falling upon us yet.

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Plays:

"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."

To be fair, Gale, not every character that would be "streamlined" is as far out of those of yours you mention. And even so, there are some more out there that won't be streamlined simply because the DMs are, perhaps through no fault of their own, more familiar with them. I use Yoss as an example only because he brought it up himself. The only rubric here seems like personal taste and personal knowledge of the team; and that changes a lot over the years.

That's what worries me. If you were to walk you Azer downtown, the IC reaction would probably be a welcome one. "Oh, what the hell is that?!" "Would you lookit...". A big departure from the "mehs" you would have gotten when we both started out. Being a relic doesn't mean you stop being relevant. In fact, I always thought it was cool to hear these crazy stories of dragons chilling in front of the old temple--and then I would by luck see one of these PCs and be like "oh cool, you're the guy that was...". Now they're only stories and those PCs will probably never be around again for this reason or another. But nonetheless those PCs and those stories are still part of Amia's history and this "streamlining" has the potential to erase that. Maybe I'm the odd man out as usual, but I think having the young and wild days of Amia stay well, wild, doesn't at all limit or diminish our newer serious tone. They're the days of legend and should a PC or two find their way back, they shouldn't suddenly just be "a guy who owned a cat once" when they used to waltz with Feleis in the Temple of Love. Especially not on the rubric of "Feleis who? Nah, that doesn't seem cool. That makes newer players feel XYZ."

So I don't think the sky is falling. But I don't feel comfortable continually having to "check myself out" with, for all their merit, a group who frankly will never know my characters or the effort I put into it as well as I did or as well as past DMs did. Do I feel comfortable bringing Zammi around anyone on the DM team? No. Is she that "out there" in terms of her very extensive story? I don't think so, but I didn't think a lot of things were before I had to change another character. Her original wing, ability, and background requests are long gone from either my inbox or anyone else's. The original request got cleaned out of the forums by now, if that forum crash or whatever didn't already do it. Gers and the other DMs who kickstarted me aren't hanging around anymore. Unless I get in my car, drive 500 miles back to my grandma's house and reboot our Gateway 2000 there likely isn't even a word doc of her original requests. It's my word against the team's, and my word will inevitably be lopped off or shaved down within the bounds of a new "vision of Amia," when originally I fought like hell to match even those small details to that original vision. If she is approved as is, then who's to say I won't be forced to change things anyway down the road when someone inevitably picks fault in something. And if she's not approved, then if I wait a year or two, she might be approved as is because that current team is cool with it. I'm not comfortable with that thought; the very most fundamental background of any PC are increasingly at the whim of people further and further removed from it, good as their intentions may be.

So I just don't see myself hopping in as her much or doing much of anything official with her much, now, despite wanting to. Or if I do, it will be when DMs aren't around or people that I know know her are in. That's wrong, but it's honest. More honest than submitting request that mums up on the older parts and carrying on as usual, like I imagine many would. The only way I wasn't constantly pulled out of character after stuff with my main went down was to avoid DMs and that worked for a while; and that's sad, because I hate the thought that I'm avoiding the very people that are here to help, but I haven't really been given reason not to in a long, long time.

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This is a lengthy one. It sums up my view on the subject. I tried to be detailed, but not too detailed, and I hope if you do take the time to read it, it will be of some use to you. Even if it is just coming to the conclusion that this pony should be sent to a farm upstate for "retirement", and return as salami.

Let me start by saying I do not have a fundamental opposition to having rules restricting certain things by requiring request. The general sentiment that prestige classes require a request, or even that membership in the Eldreth Veluuthra (if the Lords of Darkness is used as the lore source) is not that problematic for me. We had restrictions for some time, and that was not a major problem before. It was the way it was suggested it was always a rule that felt dis-genuine. But it is first and foremost the slippery slope and the manner in which these type of things are handled that have become a problem for me. That slippery slope and the manner in which these things are handled weren’t a serious problem for me in the past.

I would also like to preface this, that things I will write about bellow are not always the standard. But they are common enough to be considered contributing factors to the situation as a whole.


Running the Sandbox:
We all know the DM Team in the past has had a few bad eggs. A few clear cases showed that. The DMs choose who they want, effectively are not forced answer to anyone, and can do what they want with little recourse against those decisions. As Dark Immolation put it “Disco has said many times that Amia is not a priority for him right now, so it's a unrealistic to constantly tote him as the guy to go to when this issue continually rears its head. Short of the server catching on fire, I think he's cool. “ There really is no accountability. Yet they in the majority of the years, that also was not a serious problem. But it makes it clear that the DMs have a very important responsibility of keeping themselves in check, because they are the only ones who can.

It is my opinion that the server may be owned by Disco, but it belongs to the community. I also believe that the DMs accept the responsibility not to run the server as it would be their personal preference, or turn it into the sandbox they would wish to play in the most. For that, they should create their own server. The DMs instead should run it in the manner that is most appealing to the community as a whole, while ensuring the identity that has made it successful is not changed. Their digression is that they may implement the method they think is most suitable to achieve that. But they may never shun or lose the contact with the playerbase.

I also think that the current DM Team is far better than many of the previous incarnations we had. It seems we do not have any members who purposefully try to get rid of players and factions due to personal differences, abuse the system for their own advantage, and use their position to metagame, etc. I do think that some of the policies were not well considered, or had a very different effect as intended, and resulted in part in this unintended fall out.


Loss of Confidence:
I believe the primary issues which caused the trust of a considerable amount of players to be compromised. This to very different degrees. Given how diverse the playerbase is, it is certainly not a unified feeling. While the majority of those who posted in these topics expressed such sentiments, it is hard to tell if it would be even close to a majority, in regard to the whole of the playerbase. But there are certainly enough for it to be a concerning sample from the community. I also do not think this compromised trust has anything to do with DMs abusing their position, or things of the like.

This discussion will die down soon enough, however. They always do. Even if nothing is changed and problems were left unresolved. Very few who truly feel this means they can no longer enjoy themselves will leave. More of those with a problem will remain. Unless it would come to a few people capable of handling it seeing to a server split, which would provide an alternative, the fall out will be limited. A split would also be the most dangerous thing for Amia to happen, especially given the state of NWN. Though it is also how Amia came to be in the first place. But even if it will not come to that (I think the chances are pretty low), if the issues are not resolved, they will continue poison the atmosphere. It will remain an underlying issue to discussions and arguments, and hence will continue to be a burden to the server. Even if it is not in the open.


Enthusiasm, Loyalty and Support:
Losing a few players itself is not a major problem. Even if with NWN being so old it certainly is more of one now than it has been five years ago. But the loss of players can become a considerable strain when those who respected them or enjoyed their roleplay very much are affected by it. It will make Amia less appealing to them, and in turn fuel the underlying problems. Especially if the departure occurred in such a difficult manner.

But you will of course not be able to keep players from leaving. Amia cannot be for everyone, and I have said it and meant it too. The question becomes if it is at all necessary. If the reasons are perhaps a wrong method. If you cannot simply resolve the underlying issues. You should never allow the threat of players leaving steer you away from a right call. You should never let it be used against you to have something held hostage. But you should also carefully reflect if it is the right call, what the actual problem actually is, if there is actually an underlying issue, and if it can be addressed. Sometimes it will just be a hothead being stubborn and impulsive, who will sneak back into the server slightly embarrassed later. Often enough it is not, hence take the time to reflect.

The idea that players will return “Do not worry, he’ll be back” has been often cases a pretty accurate statement offered with some amusement. I said it too. It should however not be a creed that justifies not reflecting on issues or to ridicule valid concerns. The acknowledgement that the limited competition is perhaps less appealing and NWN remains the only true source for this type of rp is important. Players returning does not always mean quality, or show great support or loyalty. It simply means that Amia remains the only place for that player to at least somewhat get his roleplay fix in. Other servers may simply give even less of what is desired. Other times, it is just the friends within the community that spark a return. A return hence does not always prove you were right.

It is also a big difference when you have a loyal and enthusiastic playerbase, who with their creative input provide such enjoyment the server’s community, other players really love to log in and recommend it. Word of mouth is very important. If the playerbase is enthusiastic, supports the DM Team, and derives a high level of enjoyment from Amia the way the way they treat the DMs and their fellow players will be much better. There will be far fewer times any side will have headaches.

You will also notice that the damaging gossip will decrease considerably, and more often than not people will point out the fallacy of someone else’s unfounded gripes or put in question the rumors spread. That is all very important to the health and climate of a server. Showing loyalty and respect to the players in turn hence is also important, as it is a two way street.


Loss of Dialogue:
The first problem ties directly into that. In my opinion, the simple exasperation regarding and tiring nature of long discussions. Particularly those that often enough turn heated, dirty and fail to deliver an obvious benefit to the server have been cracked down. Individuals who are argumentative, and often bring up such topics of debate, now seem to be on a short leash. Topics are often locked. Bans are handed out temporarily to cut down on those who are argumentative or phrase their feedback in an unbecoming manner. Those can lead to permanent bans from those forums they are most active in, and then just permanent bans when the level of annoyance has risen too high.

Add to that, that topics are often ended with the understandable sentiment “We will look over it when we have the time” and “We will think about what can be done.” Which are not inappropriate at all, but thrown in with the rest, I feel simply help cause the following result: The DM team forfeits a lot of the dialogue with the playerbase, and concerns and issues are swept under the carpet. It also adds to the impression that feedback is not as welcomed. Sweeping it under the carpet, be it inadvertent, on purpose, or a mixture of both, also means that a lot of other topics become poisoned by the underlying problems or discontent.


Loss of Consistency and Consideration:
The second problem is the way enforcement of the rules, and often times just individual DM opinions, are being conducted. They seem less restraint, less considerate, less tolerant, less coordinated, and more impulsive. There is an arbitrary note to it. That, in addition to the dialogue issue, I feel fueled IronAngel’s initial strong critique in reaction to the idea the Prestige Classes were request only as a longstanding rule. I fully supported in what he wrote, because I felt the same way. It was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. If the DMs are not accountable, and have such power with such an incredible leeway, they need to be careful that they make sure they do not abuse it. What the DM says goes may mean they can enforce it, but it does not mean their decision has quality to it that will earn them respect or trust.

Here is where the slippery slope fear for me originates in no small part. I plainly (and that is something I realized through this discussion) do not want them to have the power to enforce those restrictions, because I do not trust them to handle it properly anymore. The restriction themselves not being the problem, but what they may lead to and how they are enforced. My experiences in their actions at times having been less restraint, less considerate, less tolerant, less coordinated, and more impulsive has undermined my trust that they can wield that digression of power to the extend I expect them to. That does not mean it is the majority of the times they overstep their digression, but enough times you begin to feel a lot of unease. A simple lack of confidence.

This also includes things like the additional hoops players need to jump through for requests, revisiting past characters repeatedly, etc. It includes the way the lore is at times handled, and input regarding lore is shunned.


Loss of Encouragement and Tolerance:
The third issue I feel ties into all of this is the judgment, instead of encouragement issue. While Amia should aspire to great roleplay standards, that should be done through encouragement. It should not be daunting for those with less lore experiences to play on this server, but they should be enthusiastic about learning about the amian world and delving into it. This also contributes greatly to my concern of the slippery slope, because I feel at some point the idea that Amia should not only be for the “elite” has become lost. Which is also a strong contributor to my feeling that Amia is no longer Amia.


Loss of Storytelling:
Finally, and fourthly, there is far less focus on the enjoyment of the story. There should be far more plots and events. And not only moderating the PC population with tired beaurocrat NPCs when they need a signature. As soon as that story element begins to fall out of primary focus, or simply not to be present enough, it makes everything worse. Amia then simply does not cover the fundamental aspect of roleplay. The focus must be here, and there must be a dedicated effort to it.

All in all, I no longer feel it is just Amia shifting more to servers such as Arelith. I feel there is a disconnect due to dialogue being more difficult, a lack of double-and-tripple checking the way the DM Team handle matters, too much judgment instead of encouragement, and a lack of focus on running stories. This in addition to the rise of quality control simply is the mixture (that for me) has made it very difficult to recognize the server I enjoyed playing on.


“Where do we go from here?”
That really depends primarily on the DMs. The playerbase can mostly only react to these subjects with their behavior and feedback. I have no doubt there are also a great many things that would be good for the players to reflect upon and change. But this post is long enough, and reflections for the playerbase I think are best focused on in its own topic. As it was so often mentioned, the DM Team steers the ship. You will make the most impact, and your actions can change the mood and situation better than anyone else.

It would perhaps help to have a short topic about what we can expect from DMs, and what their own general guidelines are to handling a few things. Something else I think is a good idea is for you to have a topic on your forum listing pending-cases, so those players who have been waiting for something a while are not missed as easily. That way, it is just easier for you.

But in general, I do not think we do not need big changes. Ease up on the quality control and policing, ease up in the request forum, be inviting to input and lore discussions, less hoops to jump through for requests, less horse trading for requests, be more tolerant to those not familiar with the lore and encourage them in a way they enjoy learning the ropes, coordinate with the rest of the staff and with the playerbase, focus more on plots, etc. Be sure to mark when you state your own opinion as a DM, and when you state the facts of DM Rulings to avoid confusion. Regain the confidence and trust by removing the underlying issues. Do not be afraid to admit if you made a mistake, as it will only improve the trust towards the DM Team being considerate and responsible. If those things happen, I strongly believe the server climate as a whole will improve from it pretty quickly, and there will be less worries about slippery slopes.

^ +1 ^

And to add my 2 cents, pence, or whatever the sub unit of your local currency is...

Ultimately what made Amia fun, is that stuff happens. That you could log in and something occurs. It doesn't have to be DM led, but it does have to be absorbed by the world. What's the point in being able to summon divine fire from heaven if you can't try and level a city with it?

I feel a lot of the time and for quite sometime the plot is decided before the event, then we just turn up and speak our lines. Case in point was the end of Ultrinnan. (YES, THAT OLD CHESTNUT). I still don't understand why the areas just couldn't be ported over to B. Instead we spend months trying to cure a plague that was already defined as unbeatable.

Now I know things have changed and time goes on, but at the same time, it does feel sometimes that you are just beating your head against a brick wall when it comes to doing anything on this server. Some of the powers and abilities that the playerbase have means that the terrain should be more flexible, the world more wild and ultimately irrational.

We're playing on a fairly high-magic setting, and concerns about seriousness and viability of player characters are frankly a bit dull when you have wizards who can literally move mountains, and barbarians who can kill them with one swing of a blade (yeah why not, bring back dev crit),

Let anarchy reign, and RP mean something because of it, rather than shuffling around the same circuits day in day out.

(also, I have been playing on this server on and off for 9.5 years now (approx) and part of this forum for exactly 9.5 years. Holy shit)

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Jys'zyne Do'larn

Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?