Dm events being 30-centric is only focusing on one thing in order to win the point. Dm's don't automatically make en event the hardest it can be, it is made as hard as it /needs/ to be. And this need comes from everyone automatically logging their 30's so they can be bad asses and win.

The 30-centric is borne of the players being able to churn out max level toons whenever they want. Claiming that it is 'to tedious' is paramount to laziness, and a focus on 'I want more', instead of actually thinking about what others need.

_________________
I Am:
Derrin: 'Nothing to see here'
Beck: Hard working dwarf paladin.
Naela 'Widow': Wandering priestess.
Celinor Triellian: Paladin of Corellon.

Because everyone wants to be the strongest, unbeatable superhero, so they won't rp anything below lvl 30, because it could hurt the ego

I voted no on increasing XP and I stick by that but I've had a terrible time lately finding any parties, even when there are 30+ people logged in. I've also had to skip parties for being 1-2 levels out of range. I would get behind expanding the level range. Start small if you want to be conservative about it but I think it could help. That and increasing quests and buffing quest rewards as I noted previously.

_________________
Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder

This, my friends, is why generalizations are bad.

Removing level cap is also no way to. Amia is designed to be level 30 endgame, removing the cap would throw it in colossal disbalance and would require a lot, A LOT of work done by the staff to fix that.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

I don't imagine that I'm among this recent mention, but I -did- leave for a server with slower leveling. Slower leveling is attractive on a server that has always been doing it. If we took PoTM's leveling speed and applied it to Amia, who has a stark majority of its characters already at max level, there would be incredibly low incentive to introduce new character concepts.

In truth, I left because I could find better conflict elsewhere. More fun. I never had the patience to do a slow, careful, behind the scenes build up that would take years to create. Not due to leveling, but simple playtime investment. So on Amia, I would have to grind a disposable character to level 30 in order to provide a threat (Not all concepts may require this, but let's be real. Many do). I've often thought about returning and trying to create some conflict here again, but I can't be arsed to make a disposable character and grind through the levels.

On the server I'm at presently, there is slow leveling-- but also the option to create a disposable, atmospheric, monster character who starts off at a higher level. It's all done by request, but it's pretty much perfect for what I enjoy about NWN. The server recognizes that some types of conflict require providing mechanical boosts of strength to bad guys. Or that some of the "journey" and buildup of a character being performed as offscreen history isn't all that bad.

All in all, it can go back and forth comparing another server to Amia. But it's my hope that I demonstrated a connection between conflict and level speed, or maybe gave an idea for people to try something here.

Alright, my bad ... 99,99% of players, not everyone.

i imagine an amia where my levelling is mentored by the master i met, tailoring my experience as i learn the trade he has, at a respectable rate


this opposing the circle grind

_________________
bad man

I don't think it is as malicious as this. DM events are largely level 30-centric because the playerbase, especially the established characters, are majority level 30. Sure, a DM event is only ever made as challenging as it needs to be-- but 4/5 plots run will be run in the company of a level 30.

That doesn't mean that the max-level character is malicious or greedy, or purposefully seeking out events to be a hero. It's just statistically likely that he'll be present. And that's all it takes for a lower level to feel completely shrouded and incompetent. This isn't saying that every character needs to be equal, or that every character desires to be a master right away. Just that the difference in Rp potential with a level 3 and a level 30 are in fact potent. It's just embarrassing to have my character die to a single rogue fireball spell when max level players throw them for fun at people. I get that people should experience a journey, sure-- but I don't think characters need to feel that insignificant.

There are recurring negative sentiments against people who seem to rush to 30, or against people who don't enjoy grinding and wish it went by faster. But it's a whole 'nother step to suggest that we're being specifically inconsiderate against other players. It's a kind of chicken and egg dilemma. I wouldn't ever feel compelled to rush to level 30 if the majority of the server wasn't already there. But because they're already there, I end up feeling like I have to get there too. And then, suddenly, I contribute to the problem just as much. It's a cycle, you see?

Try looking for servers that have time based experience. Hopefully it won't be just Czech thing. But be prepared to never get to max lvl, or spend years getting there. Or you can just play your game your way and do lvling accordingly to that.

_________________
Zendaer Amattis
Torgon Crimsonshade
Khalid Athanalo
CET time zone

dont like it leave isnt a mentality amia can afford to have. on the contrary we are in a tied posture with current playerbase dm base where the only things we should be doing are making changes to retain or bring people back.

_________________
bad man

Xp gain is not really the concern as much as the dwindling playerbase and a lack of higher-level areas, and quests that are plentiful and fun.

_________________

Yeah, this more than anything.

Beneath are the links to Arelith and Ravenloft server status pages -- notice they have significantly (and consistently) more players online. And while I agree that the "circle grind" is tedious, it is also much harder to level on these servers; which leads me to believe raising the XP rate on Amia likely wouldn't harm the server, but it probably wouldn't solve this issue.

http://portal.arelith.com/
http://www.nwnravenloft.com/serverstatus.php

And I'm not posting the above links to potentially anger anyone; I'm merely pointing out a worrying trend.

_________________
The Grizzly is Back.

Edit: Double post ftw

How would removing the level cap hurt the balance of the server?

How many times can a single character run circles through the Fire Giant Spires, the Forest of Despair, or even the same patch of the Abyss before it becomes a totally OOC exercise? I can understand a lap, maybe two, of the spires to get a level, but running through the place 5-10 times just doesn't make any sense. Not only is it tedious on an OOC level, it makes no sense on an IC level. I don't mean that it's tedious because the areas aren't varied enough or there aren't enough flashing lights. It's tedious because I'd rather be roleplaying with other players.

Some people love grinding for loot, and I can understand that, but how does making it easier for everyone else to level up hurt your quest for loot? I don't think we've talked about lowering the loot drop rate relative to the increase in xp gain.

Someone said earlier that we can't make it easier for people to level up because of 'standards'. What standards? How does making it easier to get to level 30 do anything to hurt a server already full of level 30 characters?

A change in the XP rate won't affect me, but I just don't understand the aggressive and sometimes outright disrespectful opposition to this. It doesn't make any sense.

I have the impression this was a failure in communication only. It seems Guardian is talking about the general server level cap of Level 30, and Krin talking about the Level DIFFERENCE cap between characters in the same party.

_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

What he said.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

All I can say is that we're watching this, and hopefully there will be some improvements, based off of productive ideas to the system soon™. Just waiting for a mod update and testing!

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Would like to opine a little more now that I have spent a couple days in the server and took a character out for a hunt for the second time (different characters) today. Long post, apologies beforehand.

Character in question was a level 10 Bard (now level 11), melee but no WF feats, etc, full plate and tower shield, Ab 18/13, AC 36. Not a powerbuild, but I wouldnt say he is a "gimp". As he had finished last night's RP in Cordor, I took it from there. 3 Encounters in the Swamps near the entrance to Tarkuul (I was a little lost), then back to Lowlands Delta and on to the coast, where he fought 4 more encounters. Entered Forest of Despair, managed 2 groups before he got a spawn with the barbarians and the casters, had to exit transition to not die, but finished that encounter. Went back to the coast, one more encounter, then next coast area, 4 more spawns, then into the storehouse. Cleared storehouse up to boss fight, again had to run for his life due to a combination of a couple well placed Blindness/Poison spells by the clerics and the sheer volume of the encounter (2 archer groups, the melee adds, boss). Made his way to the exit, fought the encounters on the way, and three more before he could go to the Lowlands area proper again. Took the way to Cordor back thru the swamps, 5 more spawns there.

He got +/- 3k XP for that trip, but a lot of gold (over 10k gold). Context given, my impressions:

- In my previous time in Amia I never got to know the "secret stores" some people talk about. I think the bard is wearing pretty good equipment for his level (+2 boots, +3 deflection, +3 full plate, +1 tower, +2 natural, access to PfE, Mage Armor, Bull's, Cat's, etc) but I could be very wrong. For consumables, Cure Critical Potions, heal kits, Flame Weapon scrolls, summon scrolls (he didnt have Summon IV before I took the level up, it makes a world of difference).

- It is NOT easy to level, combat-wise. Maybe this is the impression of people with a very good knowledge of the areas, stores, consumables to take, etc, which are all OOC and carry over characters (we all know it does, we only ever learn once where the Handaxe with TWF feats is sold, the other characters know it by default). Area choice being very important here, there are probably more "efficient" areas than the ones he traveled to, but from the perspective of someone without lots of OOC knowledge of the server, it was a "logical" path. Cordor -> Swamps -> Delta -> Coast, even supported by the present quests (which are very nice).

- Still on difficulty: In the areas he visited spawns varied between 5 and 7 mobs per group, sometimes more than half had TWF, Called Shot, and sometimes more than half had Sneak Attacks. In FoD Barbarians could hit him for almost half his HP, damage spells were cast thrice per caster mob. The boss fight in the storehouse was particularly brutal, LOTS of enemies, and as soon as the cleric landed the Blindness spell, the boss dropped him to Near Death in one attack routine. He would have died both times if I hadnt cheesed transitions.

- After hitting lvl 11 at the pirate boss, and getting Summon IV, things got much, much easier. The summon has less AC than he does, so it is usually targeted first, but it has DR so it could all but ignore all the pirates could throw at her. Havent tested in FoD, but it should at least take some pressure off the bard.

- XP per area: Swamps 5 to 10 XP, Coast 15 to 25 XP (45 XP for pirate boss), FoD 30 to 45 XP.

What I am getting at:

- It seems to me the difficulty/XP ratio is set towards well-built characters played by people with good knowledge of the server. Increasing XP (to probably 2x the current) would make it just as fast for veterans, and that much more welcoming/less brutal on players with a less optimized build and less knowledge of the module/server.

- Areas feel like they are meant to be run in circles until XP becomes unbearable to you (taking the above in consideration). As soon as he entered FoD and was almost pulverized, the 10 extra XP meant little if the risk of dying was so much bigger. The 15 minutes between rest times doesnt feel oppressive in itself, but makes it so that, if you do need your buffs to survive, you will try to kill as many encounters as possible with your buffs, thus not giving it much time to type/RP during adventures. This is probably a little too personal opinion and based on how slow I type myself.

- Difficulty and XP being as they are (IMHO) do little to make experienced/veteran players take longer to level. It does however makes it that much harder if you are not, and being in a party will NOT help. If the designated "frontliner" is not in the group mentioned above, they WILL die, and in levels where not everyone thinks of carrying Raise Scrolls or can afford them. Having a "frontliner" will not matter at all in many cases, as enemies will beeline for characters using ranged, or spells, or have lower AC.


Trying to conclude, this is not a post to say I am defending bigger or lower XP only, but rather something I did to test a thought I had. This thread is not really about XP rates per se, but rather, how fast it is for some people to level their characters, and if said people even want to level characters at all. The impression I have is that if you can level a character "easily/fast" with the current system, give your knowledge of the server/module, raising XP rates will matter very, very little, and many people can. Doubling XP rates would probably make the server more welcoming to newer players, and allow for "gimps/RP builds" to obtain levels less painfully.

The other character I got a couple levels with was a brand new Wizard. INT 18, CON 16, otherwise not too optmized (took Courteous Magocracy as an RP background feat, for example). She had very little incentive to do anything other than hide behind her familiar and summon while Invisible. Summons are THAT good, and make THAT much of a difference. And I do feel the areas are balanced with those in mind too, which creates a problem when a lvl 3 Familiar is miles more durable than a level 3 Warrior, albeit dumber.

I would like to add a final comment on some posts in the thread too. I asked about the "DC method" because frankly, the way it was being put is that there is a secret recipe to earn those. it was something that bothered me a little in my last time playing, many people would reply with "Ah just get DCs and request it", and IMHO taking DCs for granted makes then that much less valuable, and, again for newer players, may pass the impression of favoritism when they manage a couple DCs in a month or two playing, and it sometimes sounds that the standard is everyone swimming in them.

Nothing in my post is mean aggressively or in snark, please, if anything comes out as such, I apologise. English is not my first language and I come from a different cultural background linguistically that may cause misunderstandings in my message.

_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

Fair observations though something to take into consideration: Bard is, typically, a support build and not made to go toe-to-toe in melee unless you build it to do so. FoD is also an ECL 12 or so area, so it makes sense that you had issues there (plus you need decent enchantments/AC, I think 30 AC at least consistently which you had at least that), and the crits and spells can hurt. It's definitely easier with a part, especially if you are not a frontliner. It's sorta like playing a sneak in there, only bards will survive better normally.

A good area for the 10-12 range is actually the spawns north of Wharftown; the humans up to the old Uhm map are good for 10-12 unless I am mistaken.

I will agree, though, that we have, over the years, built things for optimized builds. People complain it's too easy so we just make it harder. Then people complain about optimized building. But you have to in order to be effective in PvE (not just PvP) so it's an endless cycle. I've always been irritated with that.

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Thanks for thinking the observations are fair, Naivatkal. I do know that FoD was probably out of his reach but I wanted to test it nevertheless as it is not unheard of even to me (very little connections in the playerbase, very little knowledge of the server/module) of veterans bringing level 6/8 Characters there. That is not to say I think that people who have played for longer and learned the ins and outs should magically forget about them, or that any new player/less knowledgeable player should be given a detailed guide of all secret stores, DC making tips, etc. I tried to make an experiment and take notes to highlight that leveling is not really as easy as it is sometimes said in this thread. I do still have this: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BywqydY ... N3V0U/edit from my last playing here, and I can say with certainty that my characters could not follow that suggested leveling order then, and cannot follow it now. The list was written by a veteran, and I am absolutely sure other veterans will go to the suggested areas even sooner, and still be making XP in numbers that newcomers or less connected people cannot dream of.

Edit: Here's the character in more detail for a better understanding of my previous post, no items, straight from Player Tools.

STR: 17
DEX: 10
CON: 12
INT: 14
WIS: 8
CHA: 16

Concentration: 10
DisableTrap: 1
Discipline: 14
Listen: 14
OpenLock: 1
Perform: 14
Spellcraft: 14
UseMagicDevice: 14
Tumble: 14

Armor Proficiency Heavy
Armor Proficiency Light
Armor Proficiency Medium
Gr Fortitude
Shield Proficiency
Still Spell
Weap Prof: Martial
Weap Prof: Simple
Bardic Knowledge
Bard Songs
Quick To Master
Bard Songs 2
Bard Songs 3
Bard Songs 4
Bard Songs 5
Bard Songs 6
Bard Songs 7
Bard Songs 8
Bard Songs 9
Bard Songs 10
Bard Songs 11
Blind Fight
Mount Actions

_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

I'd probably put those bandits on par with the malarites, actually. Sure, most of them are fairly easy to deal with (much like the werewolves and club-wielders among the malarites), and they don't have as much spellcasting or crazy greataxe damage spikes, but a few of them can put out surprising amounts of steady damage.

_________________
Currently playing:
Aven Brinyflask
Safaya Dalai
Riyit
Chsera Hile

(Credits to Raua for the sprite, sauce -here-.)

If your character has UMD, Forest of Despair can be ran at level 6.

_________________

Not really, no, and that is what I meant in my previous posts. If the Summon IV and V scrolls (and other items) where easily accessible by all players (not characters) then that would be true, for example. Hence my opinion that leveling is not easy for all characters, but it certainly is for some players, which is what I arguing here.

Reiterating my point, Amia may be a breeze for characters that are built and played by people who have been in the server long enough, but that is not the case for the average (or below) player such as myself. So when difficulty vs XP rewards is discussed I think it is important to decide if those are set exclusively with powerbuilds and veterans (btw these terms are used loosely, and are not in any way meant negatively) in mind or not. I dont think NWN players can have their cake and eat it too at this height, given the game's and the server's longevity.

For more comparisons, I logged into another server to see things from another point of view. While they do have a leveling system I am not at all a fan of (DM approval to go past a certain level, for example), and my newbie character had to run for their lives on occasion, XP was considerably more generous. I also took the same bard PC to other locations in Amia and found that, barring OOC knowledge, if he cares about adventuring in areas that are not potential death with one or two lucky NPC dice rolls, he will be getting 15 XP per enemy in average.

Also by the way Murex I am in no way judging your particular leveling path or choices, or anyone's for that matter. It is just my perspective coupled with my own experience in Amia and other servers (NWN 1 and 2 alike). I do think that if Amia still hopes to attract potential new players doubling XP rates would not change how fast people who ALREADY level fast do that, while making it so that those new players can accomplish more and feel more rewarded especially when the general difficulty of enemies is considered (as a new example, spawns of 7 spiders with DC 18 1d6 STR Poison coupled with DC 8 Web in a level 10ish area, a breeze for some, unplayable nightmare for others).

_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

After leveling a new character to L6 now, I agree that xp rates should increase to go along with the decrease in players. I couldn't find anyone to party with so far, and the later levels would just be insane at this rate.

_________________

What do our Mighty DM Overlords think of removing the party level cap? I still think the rate of XP gain should be increased by a lot, but if you're all totally against that removing the party level cap will at least make things a little more manageable for some of the people who can't stand the slow XP grind.

... you know what would be kind of awesome? A script that continuously slightly adjusted XP rates, inversely to the number of players in game at a given moment.

_________________
Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026

Character Portraits!

If it's done properly, why not. By that I mean % decrease of earned experience per difference in levels.

Otherwise I can guarantee we'll see a lot of level 30s speedrunning giants with level 3 characters under invisibility tailing them for l4wt XPz0r. Which is BS. And no, it's not an assumption, it's for sure scenario.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

Just so you're not all wasting a little breath, why don't we resume this topic, if necessary in a few days. Like I posted, changes are coming, and maybe as soon as this weekend, so it's probably worth just being patient.

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Sure it would happen, but I don't think that's a big problem on an OOC level and it doesn't raise any red flags on an IC level. If my level 30 character takes an inexperienced character with him to a massive battle against giants, orcs, or whatever else, you can be sure that the character will be more experienced by the end of it.

If we can justify people murdering the same group of bosses every day for epic loot without calling BS, I don't think we'll have a problem justifying this.

EDIT: And Faded with the ninja post!

Oh yeah? Without entering the combat whatsoever?

I forgot. The best way to learn is not practice, but to watch, scratch an ass or two whilst others do the job. 21st century mentality engaged in RP game. Way to go, man, don't forget to roll for the loot too



With all my love and respect to you, Fade... I am worried. Please prove me wrong.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

Perhaps you could give us a rundown of the changes so we can discuss the pros and cons of whatever those are? I'm not seeing any reason to keep them under your hat.

_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

That's how most mages level up right now.

_________________
Currently playing:
Aven Brinyflask
Safaya Dalai
Riyit
Chsera Hile

(Credits to Raua for the sprite, sauce -here-.)

Mages atleast refresh buffs, summon creatures etc. and many use offensive spells aswell. That's how mages always worked (if you don't include spellswords and such).

If casting spells is what earned them xp, I'd agree with you. Unfortunately, what earns xp is killing blows.

_________________
Currently playing:
Aven Brinyflask
Safaya Dalai
Riyit
Chsera Hile

(Credits to Raua for the sprite, sauce -here-.)

That is just sad reality of RPG games. That usually you gain XPs just by finishing quests and killing enemies. You can be "stupid"* about it when it comes to lvling system vs RP, or you can try to see it as necessary evil.

* not meaning to offend anyone, just saying that taking this system literally is not really a smart way how to look at leveling in RPGs, it is this way for many different reasons, mostly I would say to protect system from being abused by someone for example spamming spells to get exps, or laying down traps and picking them up, or any other idea that would fit classes more, but would be hard to control.
Actually I've seen system like this, friend of mine tried to create it, but it is just too problematic.

_________________
Zendaer Amattis
Torgon Crimsonshade
Khalid Athanalo
CET time zone

Well, for example Dungeon Siege I worked that way, Skyrim, Oblivion etc. worked like that too but yeah, once I got 5 levels just by casting the same spell on one spot, so it's exploitable, much like anything. System of gaining exp per killing blow isn't flawless, but still one of the best imho.

I don't think anyone is arguing that we shouldn't have a leveling system or replacing it entirely, so we're all for the necessary evil. What we're saying is that it shouldn't take so long to get through and it should be easier for players to do it together, even if that means you have some people running their lowbie friends through the abyss or around the giants.

We're supposed to be a community. I think we should have a little trust and compassion for our fellow players, especially if it doesn't affect us negatively to make the changes.

Just persay, I'm absolutely not saying this.

The leveling, if anything, should be HARDER. What I am saying is that I understand some people are frustrated by the grind, so we should make it more FUN. More fun does not mean easier. Easier means less fun, if anything. Which means raising Xp rate is nonsense, same as no penalty included level cap removal.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

I'm afraid that would mean low lvl locations would be empty and lower level gear would also go to waste.

Exactly. However most people here seem kinda unskilled or bored, so I guess it won't go this way.
(I think I said this already... but...)However I would try adding quests. Ideally in such a manner that they would navigate character from quest to quest so that new players get to know major locations and also gain extra experience - to shorten time of grinding in one location. That's what I find most annoying. While it is kinda hard to find quests in the world, I feel like it is more by accident. I know this is not MMO, but maybe there should be some hint to tell newcomers that this specific NPC offers quest.

_________________
Zendaer Amattis
Torgon Crimsonshade
Khalid Athanalo
CET time zone

How would you make it more fun? We have plenty of different dungeon types, enemies, and environments to run in circles through. We have a ton of quests. Most people see those dungeons and quests once when they level a character and never go back again, so it seems like a waste of resources to devote time to that when we have such a small chunk of the server actually doing the leveling.

We have players here in this thread that have told us that leveling is so bad that it leads to them getting burnt out and taking a break from the game. We have other players who have told us that it took so long and was so hard to do that they abandoned characters.

Why should our answer be to make it harder for those people? This isn't Dark Souls, this is a decade old RP game with a small and dedicated player base. We should be doing things that encourage more interaction, not less.

I don't understand the logic behind taking what players actually affected by this have said, processing it, and then doing this to them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAlTOfl9F2w

So? They go to waste now. The only way for them not to go to waste as people level up would be to keep everyone at low levels.

The Dark Souls comparement is just pathetic. Please, for the sake of fair play, do not ever use it again.

Amia right now is NOT hard. It's EASY. If you think it is hard, go on any other RP server and try it. I am telling you right now - you will not find any. Any other at least fairly populated servers are harder than Amia, and that's the fact.

And if you wish to know how to make the server more fun, I will point you to the post Nalkar made and his four points. That's basically where we should start. More quests, more challanges, and by all means - less grind, but no XP rate raising.



Haha, quite a shitty thing to say, especially after the staff invested a lot of time to completely re-design low level areas and loot bins. Below the belt much.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

Not sure if troll...

In every RPG game there are items for lower levels and for higher levels, you can't just get rid of weaker items because you won't use them "end game". With this attitude you could give all players 30th level and epic items, because "they won't be low lvl forever, why not give it to them now"

You earned the Dark Souls comparison when you suggested that we make leveling harder for people already telling us that it's too hard. Sure, it's not hard for you, but you won't be affected by an XP increase anyway, so what do you care?

We have a lot of quests. We have a lot of dungeons and loot. What we don't have is a way for players to help other players without needing to make a whole new character just to help a friend level up. Taking a squat over your fellow players when they raise legitimate concerns isn't a good way to build or maintain a community.



It's the truth. Do you use level 10 gear at level 30 or run through the goblins for loot after you hit epic? Most people will see those things once when they're leveling a character and then never see them again. Devoting more time and energy to that is a waste of resources and it won't do anything to address the problem we're talking about.

@ Bertnard

I never said we should get rid of low level loot. I said we shouldn't devote more time and energy to it. The slippery slope argument is one you and the others have used often in this thread, but it doesn't hold up and isn't helping your case.

alright you two we get your stance, and we also understand you have a penchant for derisive and caustic commentary. keep that shit in check please. take that with a grain of salt since i cant technically moderate you

_________________
bad man

Oh, don't worry, after that last post by Krin I'm not even taking this seriously anymore. It has to be a wind-up.

So not a grain, a pinch of salt, no-moderator , I'll just wait for the announced update eagerly. This thread served it's purpose three pages ago.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

By unskilled do you mean not knowledgeable of OOC mechanics and out-of-the way locations and shops, or poor story-tellers, who make characters that add little to nothing to the server and the other story-tellers' stories?

If it's the former, then this comment sounds to me much like the "kindergarten easy" one a couple pages back. By implying anyone with the slightest difficulty in leveling is comparable to a child in skill and knowledge you are sounding passive-aggressive at least, an asshat at most.

A general standard for difficulty in a numbers game (which D&D is) is that the closer the NPCs are to players in level of power, the closest to a challenge you are getting. Currently, and starting as soon as lvl 3, NPCs have access to many if not most tactics that PCs do, be it combat feats, spell, potions, etc. Their items and stats may be more modest, but that doesnt make it a walk in the park unless you have access to items and consumables that the developers included to areas/shops not meant for that level.

I wont use Dark Souls as I never played the game, but it seems some folks would have fun in Dungeon and Dragons Online. Leveling is slow and hard, you can even set the difficulty to Elite if you are still feeling too close to the kindergarten kids, and you have to level your character to lvl 20 at least 3 times for the best ability scores, and at least 4 times from 20 to 30 if you want the good epic stuff. Of course it is an MMORPG and even the most empty of servers has 20 times the players Amia has in peak times.

But I get it, the server is old and there are people who have been here for a long time. There is nothing short of creating arbitrary RP/story-telling restrictions to level that will make those take more than a few days to level to 30. But for the average player (or "unskilled", "kindergarten" as they were called before) who doesnt posses that knowledge, it is anything but easy, no matter how much some will scream it is so.

_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

I did not mean to offend anyone. I'll answer you in PM, as you said - it was already mentioned in the topic and there is no need to get into some cycle.

_________________
Zendaer Amattis
Torgon Crimsonshade
Khalid Athanalo
CET time zone