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Bactérie
 
PostPosted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 22:38 PM 

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http://www.dotd.com/mm/MM00020.htm Beholder kin here we go.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 22:58 PM 

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2e stuff but I don't see why it can't work.

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QPR
 
PostPosted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 23:57 PM 

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I can only recomend you to play Baldurs Gate II; there are som very memoreable encounters with a certain Spectator there. I think that one is my favourit monster NPC of all time.

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Bactérie
 
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 26 2010, 0:06 AM 

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QPR wrote:
I can only recomend you to play Baldurs Gate II; there are som very memoreable encounters with a certain Spectator there. I think that one is my favourit monster NPC of all time.


*reinstalls the game*

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Merrien
 
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 26 2010, 2:18 AM 

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I found more info on beholders at the D&D wiki and Forgotten Realms wiki, plus what is on this board already; were you wanting more than that?

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Charles1810
 
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 26 2010, 2:31 AM 

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Am currently looking for lore on the following:
Paladins
Bahamut
Divine Dragons

Believe I am looking for Faiths and Patheons, Dieties and Demigods, and Dragonconio.

Pardon spelling. If anyone has information or those actual sources could you PM me. Thanks in advance

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QPR
 
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 26 2010, 11:10 AM 

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About Bards: are there any lore on just why, and in what way their song is magical? And where do they get their arcane power from? is it innate like sorcerors, or is it bits of knowledge they pick up on the way (ie; the lore bonus)?

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Gers
 
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 26 2010, 11:23 AM 

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Sorcerers and bards share the same source for their arcane power: their blood and heritage. Oftentimes, a bard is a member of an innately magical race (such as an elf or fey) or has dragon blood in them, or from some other innately magical race. Their magic utilizes the Weave like any other mage's, but they control it through innate talent for the most part, though study and learning spells similar to how a wizard does is not excluded, at least to my knowledge.

As for bardic song magic, it's a channelling of the Weave just like any other spell. It's just done in a different manner than your regular waving-the-hands-and-abra-cadabra spellcasting. There's no lore-wise ruling on it, other than a target needing to be able to hear and sometimes see you. Essentially, it takes a spell and turns the gestures into those used in playing an instrument (this was done in the novel Elfsong), or eliminates them altogether, in the case of purely singing or oratory use of the ability.

Their lore bonus comes from things they pick up on their travels, and their tendency to study things that catch their fancy.


Last edited by Gers on Fri, Mar 26 2010, 11:37 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 26 2010, 11:31 AM 

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Different takes from different authors, different editions and different settings. Sometimes bards are dabbling in wizardcraft, which is my favorite take on it. Other times it's some connection to the Weave and possibly magical bloodline. (2e Bards couldn't be elves, and they learned and prepared spells like a Wizard did; many canon NPCs are still 2e bards, of course that wasn't retconned.) It might be an archaic form of magic, similar to Spellsong. Their songs might be magical and connected to any of these sources, or they might just be damn good and inspirational; 3.5e does make the various songs Supernatural or Spell-Like, though, which means Anti-Magic Fields affect them.

I'd check the Complete Bard's Handbook for inspiration. No need to bind yourself to any one interpretation as long as you're within the mechanics of NWN and general FR, IMO.

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Mathias of Constantinople
 
PostPosted: Sat, Mar 27 2010, 21:44 PM 

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Hello all,

I'm trying to find out information on the Old Order monks. Can someone tell me more about the deity they worship/follow, or any other information that would aid in constructing a background for a monk of this order? About all I've found is the little thing about them in the campaign setting.

Thanks in advance!

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Gunz
 
PostPosted: Sat, Mar 27 2010, 22:36 PM 



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All I can tell you right now is that they're an order that prides themselves on neutrality. They also don't worship any specific deity. It's up to each member to worship whoever they wish as they're a secular order. I'll see what else I can find for you, I'll have to look around books.

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Mathias of Constantinople
 
PostPosted: Sat, Mar 27 2010, 23:00 PM 

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Thanks for the help gunz!

One of the main reasons I was asking is because the campaign setting suggests good aligned monks can join the order too. Also, where could I read more about it, especially that they can follow any deity?

Thanks again, heaps!

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sat, Mar 27 2010, 23:33 PM 

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As far as I'm aware, the Old Order is purposefully left vagye. There is an NPC in Amia you might try talking to. I'm not aware of what his dalog is, but Panthalo, inthe Skull Crags Monastery, as a FR canon NPC, and the last living Grandmaster of the Old Order.

Why he is on Amia and who added him in the first place, I've no idea, but there you go. He's probably the second, and last, FR canon NPC to exist on Amia.

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Mathias of Constantinople
 
PostPosted: Sat, Mar 27 2010, 23:38 PM 

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That's great advice, thanks Tormak.

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Gunz
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 0:54 AM 



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Aye, what Tormak said. They're left very vague. What I told you is pretty much what you learn from the Amia NPC. There's much more to it, I just don't remember.

The only thing I found was in the "Do's and Don'ts" web enhancement that you find on the Wizards website. It reads:

Quote:
Old Order (usually neutral, sometimes good, rarely evil):
rogue, sorcerer, shadowdancer (monk levels must be
higher than total of all other class levels).


The enhancement says that you can find more about them in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book. I don't have that book though.

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Mathias of Constantinople
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 11:21 AM 

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Thanks again!

The alignment stuff seems to be word for word from the campaign setting. I'll type out what it says:

Quote:
Old Order (Neutral, Sometimes Good, Rarely Evil) Monks of the Old Order do not worship any deity, but are devoted to the philosophy espoused by a deity who is either now dead or has never existed on the Material Plane of Toril The monks contradict themselves on this point, but the deity's identity isn't important to them, it's the message that they care about. The Old Order never has huge monasteries, but has spread widely throughout Faerun. Monks of the Old Order can multiclass freely as rogues, sorcerers, and shadowdancers, but must maintain more monk levels than their combined levels of other classes.


So I suppose my main questions are still about the deity. Can an old order monk on amia follow a different deity? If not, what should they say when asked about the deity they follow?

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 12:04 PM 

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I think that would depend on the character. After all, the flavor text does say "the deity isn't important, the message is."

Find a god that espouses that phiolosphy, or follow the Old Orde'rs dead/nonexistent one.

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Mathias of Constantinople
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 12:30 PM 

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Will do, thanks again!

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 20:55 PM 

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Guys ...Does "Roc's" Exist on amia; or in khem?

Rock Intel #1

Roc Intel #2

Why? because i figured that if you had the eye of a Rock, you could do some SERIOUS Scrying, right?

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Hrothmus
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 21:36 PM 

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I have a question about clerics. I was thinking about taking my character and making him a cleric. The problem with this is that he is a bard. I talked to another person about it and they had the thought that Someone who already had some grasp on magic would not need to bed a deity for power.

Would it be possible for a character to be part bard part Cleric? I understand that the Bard as a class carries a typical stigma with it although my character is played more like this:

He was a normal guy who at an early age discovered that his voice and song was innately magical. (Anyone out there having read the Shannara series, I modeled it after the Wish song) That is really the only tie he has with the Bard class. Would it be impossible for him to develop a bond with another deity (say Salandra) and become part cleric part bard?

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 22:06 PM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
Guys ...Does "Roc's" Exist on amia; or in khem?

Rock Intel #1

Roc Intel #2

Why? because i figured that if you had the eye of a Rock, you could do some SERIOUS Scrying, right?


Roc's exist in FR according to FRwiki, but it's just a blurb of info, and it is FRwiki, after all.

I imagine they could, or do, but it's up to the DM's seeing as they're not visable in the landscape. Khem makes sense for a place they would be, though.

And make sure to destinguish between Roc and Rock...


 
      
brooksthegreat
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 22:48 PM 

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Hrothmus wrote:
I have a question about clerics. I was thinking about taking my character and making him a cleric. The problem with this is that he is a bard. I talked to another person about it and they had the thought that Someone who already had some grasp on magic would not need to bed a deity for power.

Would it be possible for a character to be part bard part Cleric? I understand that the Bard as a class carries a typical stigma with it although my character is played more like this:

He was a normal guy who at an early age discovered that his voice and song was innately magical. (Anyone out there having read the Shannara series, I modeled it after the Wish song) That is really the only tie he has with the Bard class. Would it be impossible for him to develop a bond with another deity (say Salandra) and become part cleric part bard?


I don't know that it helps anything one way or another, but the original bard class required you to take levels of fighter, rogue, and druid.. It was a random add-on in AD&D..Bard was based on the celtic lorekeeper type bard, rather than the minstrel - thus originally a divine caster.

In addition, there have been various prestige classes that put a divine bent on the bard's class.. if I get a bit later, I'll look it up.. But the gist of it being that I wouldn't think the two wholly contradictory.

Edited for typo goodness

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 23:08 PM 

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Divine magic in the Realms comes from gods. Period. Theres' no way around it: If you're a divine caster, you are courting the deities for their power.

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Selvec Darkon
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 23:31 PM 

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If I remember correctly the fundementals of DnD. Divine magic is very different to Arcane Magic. Your Sorc wouldn't have the same power of a cleric, so IC wise he would be well within' his rights to court a diety for power, because the power is a different kind.

It's why Wizards cannot cast Divine spells from scrolls. (Well in PnP anyway).

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Yurell
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 23:33 PM 

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Selvec Darkon wrote:
If I remember correctly the fundementals of DnD. Divine magic is very different to Arcane Magic. Your Sorc wouldn't have the same power of a cleric, so IC wise he would be well within' his rights to court a diety for power, because the power is a different kind.

It's why Wizards cannot cast Divine spells from scrolls. (Well in PnP anyway).


Well, fairly different, not completely so. Both still use the Weave.

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Hrothmus
 
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 23:38 PM 

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Allright awesome, Just wanted to make sure moving a bard to the cleric side wouldn't present any loreic problems.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 29 2010, 9:45 AM 

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Some fishy lore source wrote:
Chaotic good combines a good heart with a free spirit. In 4th edition mechanics for Dungeons & Dragons chaotic good is found under the umbrella of the "good" alignment.

A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He is kind and benevolent, a strong individualist hostile to the claims of rules, regulations, and social order. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He will actively work to bring down unjust rulers and organizations and to liberate the oppressed. He finds lawful societies distasteful and will avoid them, often living as a nomad or hermit.

Noble rebel leaders fighting corrupt or venal regimes, vigilantes acting for what they see as the greater good, mercenaries who only work for the "good guys" and anyone who "robs from the rich to give to the poor" are all examples of chaotic good characters.


IS there anything else you can say about Chaotic good characters?

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 29 2010, 17:58 PM 

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Play a character that happens to be categorized as generally Chaotic Good, not a Chaotic Good character. That applies to any alignment.

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 29 2010, 18:31 PM 

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Oh gods, the modern western mind. :shock: You don't become a cleric because you want to court power from your god. That's not what religion is about. Granted, that's what some more twisted faiths are about, like that of Lolth, but it's hardly the norm. Of course it makes sense to become a priest if it's your calling, no matter whether you're Elminster or the King of America.

There are faiths where bards are highly valued, too. Oghma comes to mind. But a bard could pretty much become the cleric of any god that he feels a calling to.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 29 2010, 20:44 PM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
Play a character that happens to be categorized as generally Chaotic Good, not a Chaotic Good character. That applies to any alignment.


Explain please :?

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Yurell
 
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 29 2010, 21:11 PM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
TormakSaber wrote:
Play a character that happens to be categorized as generally Chaotic Good, not a Chaotic Good character. That applies to any alignment.


Explain please :?


RP your character who happens to have a CG alignment, don't simply RP a CG alignment.
Remember that you are playing a character, and that character has quirks and oddities, some of which may not fit into the mould of his alignment. However, that doesn't matter - you are RPing your characters personality, not his alignment. Alignment follows personality, not the other way around.

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brooksthegreat
 
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 29 2010, 21:24 PM 

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As a rule, do monks ever serve in the military? In the fashion that a ranger or spellcaster might - an official soldier, but with specific purpose?

Or do they tend to only get involved when their specific order commits to something? And in that fashion, I imagine often enough they act in the background as covert-ops agents more than rank-and-file soldiers.

Thoughts?

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 29 2010, 21:36 PM 

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"Do they ever?" Yes, they probably do. I bet there is or has been at least one monk in every walk of life imaginable, at some point.

I don't see why it would be very common, though. I bet many armies, adventure groups and mercenary bands have monks in their ranks, but probably rarely marching in the front line with the infantry. The same goes for most adventurers, though: people with special skills aren't typically your rank-and-file arrow fodder. You'll find several canon NPCs who're affiliated with some kind of a military organization.

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brooksthegreat
 
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 29 2010, 21:40 PM 

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IronAngel wrote:
"Do they ever?" Yes, they probably do. I bet there is or has been at least one monk in every walk of life imaginable, at some point.

I don't see why it would be very common, though. I bet many armies, adventure groups and mercenary bands have monks in their ranks, but probably rarely marching in the front line with the infantry. The same goes for most adventurers, though: people with special skills aren't typically your rank-and-file arrow fodder. You'll find several canon NPCs who're affiliated with some kind of a military organization.


Which is sort of why I put "as a rule" which I had intended to mean "aside from random exceptions" in the way in which rangers are occasionally employed as scouts, etc.

But, good enough. Heheh. Danke.

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QPR
 
PostPosted: Tue, Mar 30 2010, 11:11 AM 

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I'd imagine that monks do not fit very well on a regular medieval battlefield. They might be sent after spellcasters as their role seem to be mage-killers, but for actual battle, that woudl fall to, well, fighters. Barbs too, and Rangers employed as skirmishers ofcourse. Those three are the warrior classes after all.

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Nathera
 
PostPosted: Tue, Mar 30 2010, 17:21 PM 

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I would think that monks are too rare, in that its too difficult for most people to grasp. I also assume they are more likely to be seen in guerrilla armies and as spies then as front line soldiers.

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Yurell
 
PostPosted: Tue, Mar 30 2010, 21:09 PM 

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QPR wrote:
I'd imagine that monks do not fit very well on a regular medieval battlefield. They might be sent after spellcasters as their role seem to be mage-killers, but for actual battle, that woudl fall to, well, fighters. Barbs too, and Rangers employed as skirmishers ofcourse. Those three are the warrior classes after all.


I should imagine that PC classes would all be rare on a battlefield, and it would be mostly NPC classes.

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HeresyMonger
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 12:47 PM 



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Is it possible for an Aasimar or tiefling to seek out and activate the traces of power in their blood the way one assumes certain sorcerers or bards can activate the traces of dragon-related magic/power in theirs?

For instance, a tiefling taking on greater aspects of whatever demon or devil their forefather happened to be, or an aasimar taking on a greater celestial aspect?


 
      
QPR
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 13:44 PM 

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Yurell wrote:

I should imagine that PC classes would all be rare on a battlefield, and it would be mostly NPC classes.


Except for the warrior classes (Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger and Paladin), yes.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 13:45 PM 

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Is there any Monk/druid orders existing for any druid god? Like, silvanus?

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QPR
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 13:53 PM 

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Only for Eldath and he is pacifist. Then again, monks do not need to belong to a monk order.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 16:54 PM 

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She, and iirc that bit of lore is actually wrong.

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 17:20 PM 

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Yes, it's wrong. It's a belief I've only seen on Amia, and I remember when it was still new.

I don't really know where the belief originated. Eldath has no canon monastic order.

Furthermore, Eldath is Neutral Good. She in fact could not have Druid/Monks as per 3e rules, because Monks have to be Lawful and Druids Neutral, whereas Lawful Neutral is not an acceptable alignment for a divine spellcaster of a NG deity. (Whether Amian DMs choose to enforce that is another matter; they haven't, so far.)

So actually, Silvanus is the only traditional/big Faerûnian nature deity that would technically allow druid/monks. (I bet there are other atypical options, but I can't be arsed to check their alignments; you know what one-step rule means.) There are no such canon orders, however.

All in all, the discussion has often confused Monks, Monastic Orders and Druid/Monks. You can be a Monk in service to a deity that has no monastic orders and isn't even close to your alignment. There may also be monastic orders of nature deities but that doesn't mean they have druid multiclasses in their ranks. Druid/monks are technically subject to stricter alignment rules and deity choice, but don't need a documented order any more than any other monk does.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 17:24 PM 

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So that's a "maybe" iron?

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 17:26 PM 

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At the end of the day you're still a druid monk and no one likes you. :evil:

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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 17:27 PM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
At the end of the day you're still a druid monk and no one likes you. :evil:


Tee Hee, Yeah. But i least i don't get fallen for wearing metal Armor. :!:

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 17:55 PM 

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Why would you wear metal armor if you have monk levels??

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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 18:09 PM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
Why would you wear metal armor if you have monk levels??


No, That's because you take monk levels. So you don't have to wear metal armor as a Cloth.

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Grymia
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 18:09 PM 

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Mechanically, you'd be nuts unless your Wis isn't so hot.

RP wise I could think of a few reasons.


 
      
Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 31 2010, 18:19 PM 

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It's kinda messy. If you wear Metal armor as a druid, you fall. But that's the only thing you can use.

And if you take monk levels, you look like a proper druid, but you're not.

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