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No offence to you, but I'm going with what the DM said on this one because in the end they ARE the gods. Was going with a Durpari that believes in the Adama but reveres the tenents of (originally Ohgma) Torm. I was going to do things like protect places of knowledge and spread the teachings of the Adama but I can settle for for a stalwart defender and champion of justice.

A paladin of Adama? That's ...That's some difficult shit

It wouldn't be if he got his powers from Oghma. Oghma teaches to spread knowledge and always let an idea be heard and considered no matter how wrong you think it may be. Adama is a way of thinking. I believe he would want others to hear and consider it. As a pally of Torm, don't think the adama thing will happen, not much at least.

Lore on Salandra, Please
Just a link; Anything suffices

Very_Svensk wrote:

Lore on Salandra, Please
Just a link; Anything suffices

http://amiawiki.shatuga.com/index.php/Salandra

Isaiah wrote:

No offence to you, but I'm going with what the DM said on this one because in the end they ARE the gods. Was going with a Durpari that believes in the Adama but reveres the tenents of (originally Ohgma) Torm. I was going to do things like protect places of knowledge and spread the teachings of the Adama but I can settle for for a stalwart defender and champion of justice.

This is the Lore topic, where your status has no bearing, only your argumentation and use of sources. Gers gave one lore answer: FR lore seems to suggest there are no Paladins of Oghma, because FRCS says LG, LN and NG deities have Paladins, with the exception of CG Sune. Champions of Valor adds Selûne to this list. So Gers is strictly speaking correct. However, all alignments are listed among Oghma's (TN) worshipers, so it seems reasonable that he might have Paladins in his church. Why couldn't a deity who sponsors other LG organizations not sponsor a Paladin order?

Ruleswise, there's no question about it. It's allowed, and that's not what Gers was addressing. You've always been allowed to play Paladins of fitting gods on Amia, even if they're not technically a viable Paladin patron. You got a lore answer, not a rules answer. If you asked whether Corellon Larethian had Paladins, you would've been told no. Yet there are plenty of Paladins of Corellon on Amia.

I have seen the light! Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'm still a noob, so don't mind me when I don't get something right away.

Now to go make a pally of Oghma...

EDIT: before I do, would I be right about Oghma wanting to spread the idea of Adama so that it can be fully considered?

EDIT2: Well not really Oghma wanting, but allowing at least?

I can agree than ogmha would somewhat allow paladins, but, there are cases where lawful and good alowing deitys do not allow paladins, due to lore clashes, usually involving preferance against war or something.

I fail to recall who right now, I just woke up, but i'm pretty sure its salandra or ilmater or something, and they are but one example.

Ilmater has paladins, one order is particular militant even.

Every LG, LN and NG god in FR can sponsor paladins. Whether there are actually any recorded canon NPCs or orders is another matter, but it's always possible. Salandra certainly has her paladins, among other gods. There's no documented case of a god not being able to sponsor paladins if the alignment allows that I've ever seen.

If you're a Durpari who worships Curna, the female manifestation of Oghma in the Adama, you'll probably spread the teachings of the Adama, yes. I'm not sure what exactly is Curna's role (that's the name, right?) in Durpari society, but I think her clergy are goodly and care for the society. You should find more info in some Shining South book.

Edit: some Curna specifics from The Shining South:

Quote:

Curna (The Wise One)
Greater Power of Nirvana, LN
Portfolio: Wisdom, knowledge
Requirements: Wisdom 13, Intelligence 13
Weapons Allowed: Bludgeoning weapons
Armor Allowed: Any non-metal armor or
shields
Major Spheres: All, Charm, Creation, Divination,
Healing, Protection, Summoning
Minor Spheres: Guardian, Sun, Weather
Magical Items Allowed: Any usable by clerics,
plus any that are used to enhance knowledge
(crystal balls, wands of magic detection, etc.)

Quote:

Granted Powers
Specialty priests of Curna turn undead normally.
They have a 3% chance per level to recognize
any given magical item for what it is. This power
does not bestow exact knowledge; it works as
much as the bard ability. At 10th level specialty
priests of Curna may call upon a blinding flash
once per day. This is a beam of light that erupts
from the priests holy symbol, affecting a single
target. The target must make a successful saving
throw versus spells or be blinded. This blindness
lasts until it is magically dispelled, or until the
priest lifts it by silent act of will.

Quote:

Other Notes
Most Durparians pay tribute to Curna before
making an important business deal, or before
embarking on a new venture. Rich merchants
may have a priest of Curna on their personal payroll.
Such priests are considered to be very wise,
and are consulted frequently. There is a huge
temple of Curna in the mountains that bear her
name, a complex that is home to a library nearly
the rival of Candlekeep on the Sword Coast. The
contents of the Curna library differs from that of
Candlekeep in that is has fewer historical documents,
and more information on the world as it
is now. Teams of explorers and sages constantly
update this information.

http://amiawiki.shatuga.com/index.php/Paladin_Orders_by_Deity

that makes things a bit easier to see, your right with the ilmater one, so I guess its just more rare than a cleric of that faith.

Quote:

Other lawful good, lawful neutral, and neutral good deities that are not listed here can have paladins, but there are no known paladin orders for those faiths (in effect, paladins of those faiths are uncommon enough that rarely are there enough to band together and form an order).

I think I get it now, so if you we're a paladin of oghma for example, its all well and good, but your unlikely to see a faction full of that specific build like the EO, for oghma.

I can however see a few places they could find allys, and so long as they don't renounce their faith for the sake of alliance it could work well.

that said I haven't played a paladin (on amia) and I lack the background on the code and morals and such to figure how it would change to reflect specifically a paladin of oghma. I assume something along the lines of knowledge and communication rather than pure all out smiting. as well as the law abidingness and an unnatural coolness toward threats.

ninja'd...so long as more evil aligned deitys that may support LN don't have paladins I think we got this covered.

ed: just thought, how would a deity that supports LN but not LG work mechanically? you would be smited upon prayer for lack of suitable alignment (because you must be LG.)

No, I mean: gods whose own alignment LG, LN or NG can sponsor paladins, and that falls within the One-Step Rule that the prayer system also adheres to. But then there are some deities, like Oghma, Mystra and Kossuth that sponsor clergy of all alignments. I suggested they, too, might feasibly sponsor paladins. (Well, Mystra is nowadays NG anyway, so she's a bad example.)

But yes, you got it right: not every deity has a paladin order, but not every paladin order is actually documented anywhere. I'm sure there are paladin orders in the Realms that no source book mentions. In either case, even if no orders of even paladins currently exist, any deity of the right alignment can still potentially sponsor a paladin.

Oghmanyte paladins, and specifically paladins of Curna, would adhere to the same basic paladin standards as anyone else. Their additional special rules might be something like this:

Bring dangerous and dark knowledge into safekeeping, but never destroy it.
Let anyone speak in defense of oneself and consider the case with clarity.
Censorship, misinformation and ignorance are the soil in which tyranny grows. Fight them with truth and poetry.

It will also be interesting to see how you'd interpret the Oghmanyte rule "never slay a minstrel" if that minstrel was a villanous Bard/BG.

But then again, I'm not sure Curna's dogma actually has that rule.

[quote="IronAngel"]No, I mean: gods whose own alignment LG, LN or NG can sponsor paladins, and that falls within the One-Step Rule that the prayer system also adheres to. But then there are some deities, like Oghma, Mystra and Kossuth that sponsor clergy of all alignments. I suggested they, too, might feasibly sponsor paladins. (Well, Mystra is nowadays NG anyway, so she's a bad example.)

But yes, you got it right: not every deity has a paladin order, but not every paladin order is actually documented anywhere. I'm sure there are paladin orders in the Realms that no source book mentions. In either case, even if no orders of even paladins currently exist, any deity of the right alignment can still potentially sponsor a paladin.
quote]

Are paladins of Sune the only canonical versions of the non-lawfulgood state of paladinhood (racial versioning notwithstanding, eg: paragons)?

Paladins of Sune are LG like everyone else. Sune herself is Chaotic Good, making her the only named exception in the FRCS (or F&P?). It's said that LG, LN and NG gods can have LG paladins (basically One-Step Rule), but that Sune is an exception to this. In another book, paladins of the CG Selûne are introduced. So that's another definite exception. The paladins themselves are LG, of course.

Why I might include Oghma in here is because he's one of the few gods who allow LG clergy even if he's himself more than one step away from the alignment. The same goes for any other deity that allows LG clergy but is of a far-off alignment.

I believe a Gondar Paladin would be possible with the same logic.

I'm really not sure what sort of character that would be.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

I believe a Gondar Paladin would be possible with the same logic.

I'm really not sure what sort of character that would be.

Paladin of gond speaking to a pheasant on the field.
-"So. You use a normal plow, When you could be using a plow on a horse? HERETIC!" [Smite]

I downloaded the Shining South that was mentioned and it said that there are paladins of Adama and for all intent and purposes, follow the tenets of Torm, Gond, Oghma, Waukeen, and Selune. It is pretty interesting stuff. Thanks for pointing me to it.

Question regarding faiths for those with Draconic heritage:

In reviewing all the books I have access to in regards to Tiamat, never once does she make use of undead. Every source book I have only mentions use of undead by Falazure and his underlings. Is this different here on Amia? I am referencing Races of the Dragon, Draconomicon, and Dragons of Faerun ((all of which are 3.0/3.5 DnD)).

I have also looked at the Forgotten Realms Wiki and such practices by her devoted are not mentioned.

I don't see much of an issue with Tiamat followers using undead, as it's one of the "classic" evil things to do. She might be leery of it though, if it involves the Cult of the Dragon, as that group is aligned with Falazure if I'm not mistaken.

I doubt she cares. Most evil gods don't. Falazure totally doesn't.

I see this probably comes from a recent series of IC posts made and I think it's kind of lame to ask the DMs to give an answer to try and prove your PC right, though.

think what you wish. It is something I wish to know for my own sake. It would be ridiculous to run about in game and be like DM so and so says you can't do that. Then again, DM's are to be looked to to make these oh so difficult calls.

Sorry if the job annoys anyone in that position.

If the Weave is supposed to envelop Toril and the immediately surrounding space, I suppose Arcane Magics don't go through the Weave on other Planes, correct?

If so, would it then be possible to cast 10+ level spells on other planes, as they neither go through or are regulated by the Weave and Mystra?

I believe the Weave affects all the planes.

Mystra regulates the Multiverse with the Weave, AFAIK.

It really sucks that Liera is dead. Or could you still make a Lieran cleric? I've always wanted to make a cleric/weapon master/(maybe rogue) with kukri. Are there any other cool neutral deities that are reminiscent of Liera?

Mask, Shar, Cyric. Neutral? No. Her portfolios all passed to evil dudes.

TormakSaber wrote:

Mystra regulates the Multiverse with the Weave, AFAIK.

Ah, it's just what I could remember from FRwiki before it got changed. And as well, Mystrl was created when Selune and Shar were battling over Toril in the Faerun creation myth, at least. So I always assumed like Chauntea, her focus was there on Toril. Like Chauntea doesn't necessarily hold dominion over the vegetation in other Planes either, I would think.

Sucks though ,if that's true. Damn intra-dimensional monopolizing bitch. >_>

Is there a region of Faerun that is comparable to Iron Age Britian and the like? I have a concept for a Celtic Style warrior, but I lack the background. Even if there are known remote areas of races besides humans that have the same clan style structure.

Maybe parts of Rashemen or the Far East where the Tuigan hail. and the barbarian tribes, but I'm not sure. MAgic is its own "technology" that affected things.

The Uthgardt tribes seem to have Celtic or Germanic names, if that's anything to go by. Northmen are Germanic and specifically Norse. The Moonshae, of course, is completely fairytale Celtic. Rashemen is cool too, it's North-Eastern Europe/Asia in flavor but I don't know about their clan structure. Shamanistic spirit religion, Slavic names etc.

I don't know about the Weave. At some point in only envoloped Toril, but that's because the Inner and Outer Planes were the same for every world and the Prime Material extended infinately between spheres that contained individual setting worlds. Oerth and Toril were literally on the same Prime, so the Weave couldn't obviously reach everywhere. Much of that has been retconned, but I don't know what kind of power Mystra has in the Planes. She couldn't come into Hell without risking catastrophe and Asmodeus' anger in Elminster In Hell, but there weren't many specifics.

wuhwuhwolves wrote:

It really sucks that Liera is dead. Or could you still make a Lieran cleric? I've always wanted to make a cleric/weapon master/(maybe rogue) with kukri. Are there any other cool neutral deities that are reminiscent of Liera?

You could make a cleric of Ibrandul.

He was a CN deity of caverns and darkness, etc. Shar killed him secretly and absorbed his portfolio during the time of troubles, but no-one knew. A cleric of Ibrandul is therefore a cleric of Shar. I'm not sure if by now anyone has realised.

....Then, there's Baravar. He's goodly, and gnomish, but awesome.

IronAngel wrote:

The Uthgardt tribes seem to have Celtic or Germanic names, if that's anything to go by. Northmen are Germanic and specifically Norse. The Moonshae, of course, is completely fairytale Celtic. Rashemen is cool too, it's North-Eastern Europe/Asia in flavor but I don't know about their clan structure. Shamanistic spirit religion, Slavic names etc.

I don't know about the Weave. At some point in only envoloped Toril, but that's because the Inner and Outer Planes were the same for every world and the Prime Material extended infinately between spheres that contained individual setting worlds. Oerth and Toril were literally on the same Prime, so the Weave couldn't obviously reach everywhere. Much of that has been retconned, but I don't know what kind of power Mystra has in the Planes. She couldn't come into Hell without risking catastrophe and Asmodeus' anger in Elminster In Hell, but there weren't many specifics.

Novels like to dramaticize and "de-canon" things for effect. Like your example with drow what's his name beheading an illithid in timestop. The spell specifically disallows actions like that to affect the world while you're stopped but the novel lets it go. I can't honestly see a Greater Deity at risk from any arch devil, even Asmodeus, just because he doesn't have divine rank, he's not invested of divinity (at least at that point in time). He's "ungodly strong" but he's still an ungod.

So I chalk it up to "Novel fiat".

That may be true with Time Stop, but I don't think it's the case here. It's Ed's novel and pretty much all about explaining all sorts of details of lore to the point that it's an awkward literary experience.

I think the gods have a deal with Asmodeus anyway, not to stick their noses into his turf. I could be wrong, though. But yes, all this doesn't necessarily mean the Weave doesn't envelope the Hells and other planes. It just means that Mystra herself doesn't have much say there. (I think the danger was actually that the fabric between worlds would tear and the Hells could freely pour into the Prime. I'm not sure, it's been a long time since I read it.)

There's something about the gods and the planes that doesn't add up, anyway. If we are to believe Planescape folklore, the (outer) planes are the stuff of belief based on the existance of sentinent beings on the Prime Material. They aren't "real" in the same sense, and they all exist in relation to the Prime. Gods exist because they have worshipers on the Prime, and the Prime is their object of interest. Any theories about how the gods interact with the outer planes seem a bit difficult to me, because the nature of their existance seems a bit difficult. I don't really know if there is a consistent answer.

Speaking of gods and planes: Is there any info on Elder Evils and the Far Realm aside what is on the FR wiki?

And somewhat related; How can mortals become gods? I have a character concept in mind where he/she is obsessed with becoming a god, inspired by the Dead Three. Ofcourse, the character will never become a god, but I imagine that it would be quite interesting to have a character try.

Ao's approval, worshipers and possibly some divine juice from another god, either by stealing it or being granted some, as far as I know. I'm not sure if you need worshipers right away, but you do need a portfolio.

And what of these things would mortals who study be expected to know? I figure trying to get people to worship him/her might be the most straightforward way to get the first step. In her mind anyway.

That, or challenging a god for a shred of their portfolio. I think it's fairly clear to people that every god has some aspect of life they look over. You can't be a god period, you're a god of something.

In order to attempt to enroach upon a portfolio, say that of The Red Knight, I could make him a Blackguard who bargains with evil entities in order to gain powers that, in the eyes of peasents, might make him appear somewhat divine or blessed, yes? He would be playing a game with very high stakes ofcourse, and I would'nt expect his plots to go unnoticed or unanswered, nor for him to survive for very long. But it could be fun.

QPR wrote:

In order to attempt to enroach upon a portfolio, say that of The Red Knight, I could make him a Blackguard who bargains with evil entities in order to gain powers that, in the eyes of peasents, might make him appear somewhat divine or blessed, yes? He would be playing a game with very high stakes ofcourse, and I would'nt expect his plots to go unnoticed or unanswered, nor for him to survive for very long. But it could be fun.

*Purrrrrrs*

I want to see that in game!

for how mortals become gods, I would research cyric and the time of troubles, not a bad read, could make a movie out of the plot there. a short answer would be something along the lines of epic luck. imho.

I don't think challenging a god for a shread of portfolio works, its all or nothing. or the approval method, which requires ao's direct intervention, which is about as likely as a pig learning spaceflight.

there are also ways to lose a portfolio that differ from becoming defeated the usual way, and I don't fully understand this part of the lore, but dead gods seam to not be dead, everyone and their grandma seam to come back after a period of time, and since the spellplague didn't/hasn't yet/won't occur, a few gods even dodged a semi-canon dimise.

would like to find alot more source on the gods, especially divine rules regarding how the power structure works, also regarding demon lords/archdevils/other near deity power beings.

[/quote]I don't think challenging a god for a shread of portfolio works, its all or nothing.[/quote]I don't know about that. I seem to remember reading how Shar's chosen actually had a small portion of Mask's power so wouldn't that mean they shared it to some degree? Plus don't different cultures have different gods of the same portfolio?

What is the Actual ingame year?

I believe it's 1379

For another 2 months, yep.

And Amia's year ends in winter I do believe.

It ends exactly when the real year does.

according to pnp, what i've read, gods in the same pantheon cannot have an identical portfolio to another in the same. if a god from another realm (example if garyx suddenly arrived on amia) they must contest for a portfolio, or join a pantheon that they could fit into without clashes. (or failing these options, be destroyed, or merge with another god or some crazy jazz.) as for sharing power, chosen and other acts like that take some of the deitys power, meaning its a risky choice. full blown gods have a better chance at having a chosen due to that, demigods probably could but it would take alot of their power.

some gods also used to be one god, now split into two forms, and mask is epic, I don't doubt he could spare some divine essence for that, there are a few gods that can.

the rest I still don't know. (ed: also pre-gods and primordials, still figuring that out.)

TormakSaber wrote:

It ends exactly when the real year does.

Yes, which is winter in Amia.

Follow up question.
What time of the season is it on Amia?

Australians can claim it's Summer.
Europeans can claim it's Winter
Californians can claim it hasn't changed.

If the end of year there is at the same time as our end of year, then the season on Amia is in synch with the Northern Hemisphere I do believe.

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