AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Gauging interest: FORCED PERMA DEATH!!!!!!

Why not make it that a DM has the choice to introduce perma-death into his/her event. This way a DM doesn't have to enforce it, but can if they want. Which also leaves the threat of perma-death in DM events present, but not the gaurentee.

The downside to that is players being terrified of even getting started. An NPC begins to talk, and its, "OMG, I'm going to die for realz!"

I prefer just to do everything as normal with zero risk of permadeath as a DM...until it comes to one critical action or scene, at which point I say, "That's fine, but..."

And even then, I'd rather not have to do it. I have in a few instances. I believe someone wanted to go hog wild and start killing people in Cordor Square, and I said, "certainly, if you are willing to forfeit your own life forever, because it will be seen to you that you die and never come back again if you're slain."

Yossarin wrote:

The downside to that is players being terrified of even getting started. An NPC begins to talk, and its, "OMG, I'm going to die for realz!"

I prefer just to do everything as normal with zero risk of permadeath as a DM...until it comes to one critical action or scene, at which point I say, "That's fine, but..."

And even then, I'd rather not have to do it. I have in a few instances. I believe someone wanted to go hog wild and start killing people in Cordor Square, and I said, "certainly, if you are willing to forfeit your own life forever, because it will be seen to you that you die and never come back again if you're slain."

Same, which is why I want the warning ... so if you're there for casual fun, you don't have to panic at every NPC moving, and once you're given the warning you can chose to participate or no.

Last edited by J.G. on Wed, Dec 16 2009, 2:39 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Yossarin wrote:

I believe someone wanted to go hog wild and start killing people in Cordor Square, and I said, "certainly, if you are willing to forfeit your own life forever, because it will be seen to you that you die and never come back again if you're slain."

I'm almost willing to make a character, get him to level 30, and have him do that. Just to see the ensuing events unfold. (a.k.a. Roleplay)

(of course all the victims could be revived so they could Roleplay even more!)

I love it when people go out of there way to do something actually Dynamic to the Server and not just blow up a random building in Cordor.

...I'm unable to understand why people want a warning unless their PC's behaviour will suddenly change because they have been told OOC that the respawn button won't be avaliable. Isn't that acknowledging an OOC feature IC? Something that is against the rules.

J.G. wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

I believe someone wanted to go hog wild and start killing people in Cordor Square, and I said, "certainly, if you are willing to forfeit your own life forever, because it will be seen to you that you die and never come back again if you're slain."

I'm almost willing to make a character, get him to level 30, and have him do that. Just to see the ensuing events unfold. (a.k.a. Roleplay)

Dominate a Balor Warrior (or Coven Leader), buff it, port to Cordor and cast Mindblank on it :twisted:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

...I'm unable to understand why people want a warning unless their PC's behaviour will suddenly change because they have been told OOC that the respawn button won't be avaliable. Isn't that acknowledging an OOC feature IC? Something that is against the rules.

Aaaaaand that question is best answered by those who want to have complete control over their characters and their characters' story.

IronAngel wrote:

You have a set of lives that slowly regenerate.

Every death will have consequences increasing in severity: first a temporary ability/level penalty, maybe. Then a movement speed decrease. (Both increasing in duration after more deaths.)

After you have few enough lives left, you go to the Fugue on resurrection. You cannot leave there until a certain time has passed. This step is crucial: it allows political assassinations to actually work!

Once you lose your last life, you go into the Fugue and can't leave at all until your lives regenerate.

There would be a cap on lives, and the penalties would gradually decrease as you succesfully lay low: if you just spent your last life and regenerate two, you will have to suffer the second-worst penalty for death, should you die before you regenerate more.

Raise, Resurrection and scrolls would affect this penalty as appropriate.'

Now that I've looked at this in more detail, I note that it avoids the issue of permadeath entirely in favour of penalties. However, it really it only penalizes people who die a lot in a relatively short period of time (5-10 times a week, maybe?). Someone who dies once a month will take a minor penalty (-1 to a single stat?) for a few hours and that will be it. The severity of death only adds up when it happens often.

I think the incentives to avoid death (the temporary penalties) should be harsh from day one. My idea of 0-3 points lost in each stat + 0-3 levels drained would do this, and repeated deaths while still recovering would result in cumulative penalties, thus accomplishing the same thing you've suggested with more initial oomph. We could replace the 'Dead' label on characters at negative hit points with 'Unconscious' save if one stat was knocked below 3 (or 2, or 1) as a result of the cumulative penalties, at which time the character could then go to the Fugue plane as deceased with whatever consequences that would entail in terms of time to regenerate.

This would stop people from claiming they've 'died 3 times today' - they're just unconscious/comatose and have to be carried off. If they happened to be soloing, it's explained by the fact that they weren't actually dead (though they may have been left for dead) but managed to crawl into cover long enough to heal a bit and regain consciousness. It would also make minmaxing PCs by giving them 6 CHA potentially dangerous. :twisted:

Delete Raise Dead scrolls entirely (if the PC is 'unconscious' then Heal will suffice) and make 'true death' (return from the Fugue) require a Resurrection.

Essentially, rather than adding another layer of complexity (tokens), just apply the penalties directly to the character's stats and have those determine whether s/he's 'dead enough' to go to the Fugue.

To be more specific about my own idea:

:arrow:

Upon recovery (respawn, cure, whatever) from 'death' you lose 0-3 levels (40% chance of no loss, 30% chance of 1 lost, 20% ch of 2, 10% ch of 3) and 0-3 from each stat. Each penalty is rolled for independently

:arrow:

Assess the character's recovery periodically (every reset?) - the chance of gaining back 1 point of stat or 1 level is 10% x the negative amount (-2 means 20% chance of going to -1; you could make it 20%/point and/or check every RL hour if you want to make recovery faster). If you've been 'killed' several times and are suffering severe penalties they'll recover quickly from the worst of it but there may be a long time until recovery is complete.

Don't look at me for that. I'd much prefer a well thought out tale where my role is perhaps limited then hulking mass of a confusion bought about by people who THINK they have good idea's & actions.

Yossarin wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

...I'm unable to understand why people want a warning unless their PC's behaviour will suddenly change because they have been told OOC that the respawn button won't be avaliable. Isn't that acknowledging an OOC feature IC? Something that is against the rules.

Aaaaaand that question is best answered by those who want to have complete control over their characters and their characters' story.

Well, using the jumping in a pool of acid example ... why would that permakill you? My chars have been melted by acid, burned to death and frozen by various monsters throughout the isles numerous times. So what is the IC reason for the permadeath? Or is it acknowledging an OOC feature IC?

Yurell wrote:

Well, using the jumping in a pool of acid example ... why would that permakill you? My chars have been melted by acid, burned to death and frozen by various monsters throughout the isles numerous times. So what is the IC reason for the permadeath? Or is it acknowledging an OOC feature IC?

"Think of it as evolution in action."

Yurell wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

...I'm unable to understand why people want a warning unless their PC's behaviour will suddenly change because they have been told OOC that the respawn button won't be avaliable. Isn't that acknowledging an OOC feature IC? Something that is against the rules.

Aaaaaand that question is best answered by those who want to have complete control over their characters and their characters' story.

Well, using the jumping in a pool of acid example ... why would that permakill you? My chars have been melted by acid, burned to death and frozen by various monsters throughout the isles numerous times. So what is the IC reason for the permadeath? Or is it acknowledging an OOC feature IC?

It would kill you, because your jumping into a pool of acid. Not getting hit by dribbles and drops, not being sprayed with a bit that may be magically protected, your jumping into a giant pool of acid.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

...I'm unable to understand why people want a warning unless their PC's behaviour will suddenly change because they have been told OOC that the respawn button won't be avaliable. Isn't that acknowledging an OOC feature IC? Something that is against the rules.

Aaaaaand that question is best answered by those who want to have complete control over their characters and their characters' story.

Well, using the jumping in a pool of acid example ... why would that permakill you? My chars have been melted by acid, burned to death and frozen by various monsters throughout the isles numerous times. So what is the IC reason for the permadeath? Or is it acknowledging an OOC feature IC?

It would kill you, because your jumping into a pool of acid. Not getting hit by dribbles and drops, not being sprayed with a bit that may be magically protected, your jumping into a giant pool of acid.

Of course it would kill, but why would it permanently kill? Not even Disintegrate permakills.

Well, note the term 'naked', which meant no wardings, no protections, no armor, no preparations, and no one there was actually willing to raise the guy.

So, yes, that'd be permadeath IC. Even if a True Ressurection would fix them, that's a pretty costly spell to pull off for someone who no one really wanted to raise in the first place.

There are plenty of relatively mundane situations where the factors will stop you from being raised. 99% of them can be avoided by not being an idiot and thinking beyond 30 seconds into the future, but...

If I may suggest?

Permadeath - I've engaged in it a couple times, it's fun RP, but forced can be an absolute bstrd. Take a current character of mine for example. He recently had thrust upon him a ghostly possession and forced into the service of Bane. Now this is all fine and dandy but my intention for that character was to become a consulate in Tarkuul. My OOC dreams are gone, but do I really care? No, because the RP is fun and frankly IC trumps OOC for me. On the other hand, I am missing out on what I wanted OOC, and I'm aware that most people aren't insanely RP driven as my characters constantly are. Some people, put into such a situation, will not enjoy it in the least as an IC forced death is not something they envisiged for the character.
However, permadeath, when agreed to by the player, can be an excellent thing, the drama and tragedy of it all can be greatly enjoyable to roleplay. Therefore, a suggestion perhaps.
DC for permadeath. Obviously some ruling or standard would have to be enforced in order to ensure people don't just make 30 different characters with the intention to have die, but this could be an option.

Just to bring my suggestion from the other thread into this one..

Jafman30 wrote:

I think there should be something minor'ish, though something that would still harm the character. Like.. Say for instance you die, you lose ability points for x amount of time depending on your classes taken. Also, they stack.

So.
Barbarian -1 strength and constitution
Bard -2 charisma
Cleric -2 wisdom
Druid -2 wisdom
Fighter -1 strength and dexterity
Monk -1 wisdom and dexterity
Paladin -1 strength and charisma
Ranger -1 dexterity and strength
Rogue -2 dexterity
Sorceror -2 charisma
Wizard -2 intelligence

PRESTIGE CLASSES
Even more loss.

Arcane archer -3 dexterity
Assassin -2 intelligence and -1 dexterity
Blackguard -2 strength and -1 wisdom
CoT -2 strength -1 charisma
DwD -2 constitution -1 strength
Harper Scout -2 dexterity -1 intell
Pale Master -3 intelligence
Purple Dragon Knight -1 strength dexterity and constitution (Don't know..)
RDD -3 strength
SD -3 dexterity
Shifter -3 wisdom
Weapon Master -2 strength -1 dexterity

None of these are reversible and last one RL day since death. Die again while penalties are in place, your health is halved. Die again and you cannot be raised/respawn until a day or two has passed.

That's the sort of death sickness I think should be in place. PvM could be a little toned down, if you want...

Yurell wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

It would kill you, because your jumping into a pool of acid. Not getting hit by dribbles and drops, not being sprayed with a bit that may be magically protected, your jumping into a giant pool of acid.

Of course it would kill, but why would it permanently kill? Not even Disintegrate permakills.

It's a spell, you can resist spells from taking place. I imagine if you resist distergrate by succeding the fortitude save then the lethal part is gone and whatever's left is what hits you. So yea, it won't perma-kill. Also if it does hit, well it's a spell, who says that a DM in an event won't turn around and say "Disintergrate = death".

200+ posts since I last looked at this thread.

No way I'll be able to fast track all of those.

Let's just make it simple:

I'm against permadeath caused by players, effecting other players.

I'm against permadeath caused by PvM.

I support harsher death penalties both in regards to PvP and PvM.

I wouldn't mind seeing DMs enforce permadeath. But who and what gets to decide when and how a permadeath should be put in place?

WonWon wrote:

I'd disagree with that one honestly, Kjetta. I understand your reasoning for it, but i'd rather not make it a certain prestige thing. I'd sooner go;

DM Loot (Permadeath risked) = DC Items > DM Loot > Epic Loot > etc.

I think maybe more like.

NPC Loot (Permadeath risked) > DC Items > DM Loot > Epic Loot > etc.

because if they are risking fighting with some guy in overpower items and if they die they stay dead, they should get all the stuff he was using if they win.

A PC fighting an NPC, with the risk of suffering permadeath, requires the NPC to actually be killable.

There are several ridiculously un-killable NPCs in the module atm, who happily tend to enforce their will.

Not necessarily.

The situation need only be obvious to both the character and the player that victory isn't a very likely (or possible) occurance.

I doubt anyone's going to get permakilled over, for example, poking an innocuous looking object that they would have zero means of knowing about that turned out to be a Lich's Level 50 Sonic Trap.

Alternatively -

If you try and utilize your powerbuild to pwn Mark Dorne multiple times, you're likely to get Perma'ed. Same goes if you try and solo Imperator out of random bloodlust (Imperator being that phantom dragon thing in Kohlingen)

I've been avoiding this thread like the plague, but I suppose it's better to throw my opinion in than not. (maybe,

)

I don't think players should be forced to permadeath. I do however, agree that there is a need for harsher death penalties.

While the issues are not directly linked, I do think they are related.

For instance, if a character died in PvP Combat, a suggestion could be that upon being raised, they are subject to a 20-60 second stun. (If Mechnically possible of course.) During this time, they would still be able to RP, etc, but not continuously get up, and charge around like they never died and ultimately it might discourage in-combat raising. Just a thought.

DMs would also having to stop scaling events based off players if permadeath happens because that would be metagaming.

also befor anyone trys it....dont say DMs cant metagame because changing the size of a force because a group has more/less number then you were betting on is metagaming.

yes I also know they do it to balance it out so its not 20 epics nuking a small group and OOC being like "LOLZ I R TEH ROFLSTOMPED THAZ GI" or two people showing up and seeing a horde of 100 NPCs because DM was thinking 20 would show up.

if the DM wants to give the two people a chance tell them over a shout/chat they see 100 NPC befor they are on screen with them(running is a real IC option, half a army going poof/spawning for no reason is not.)

Allright, perma-death is not that good of an idea, but these are good ideas that can help make Amia more challanging-

I think the best idea is the life token system. 10 lives or whatever to start, -1 with every death. They can regenerate over time, or they can be dropped as often as bone wands or blank scrolls as well perhaps.

A Level drain or curse should take effect after a raise.

Rez scrolls can go up in price too.

Rez at entry shouldn't be allowed. I think most can agree with that.

Adding a challange in the fague plane would be awesome. Throw in some angry spirits that give status effects in an area where the character has to reach a destination in order to come back. That sounds fun.

These ideas would make Amia better in my opinion.

Quote:

I think the best idea is the life token system. 10 lives or whatever to start, -1 with every death. They can regenerate over time, or they can be dropped as often as bone wands or blank scrolls as well perhaps.

Eugh, let's not make the OOC IC

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

I think the best idea is the life token system. 10 lives or whatever to start, -1 with every death. They can regenerate over time, or they can be dropped as often as bone wands or blank scrolls as well perhaps.

Eugh, let's not make the OOC IC

So. It's been almost ten pages. What, if anything, is going to be changed?

Not sure I understand.

Murex wrote:

Not sure I understand.

"Hey guys I found three extra lives today."

"what."

TormakSaber wrote:

Murex wrote:

Not sure I understand.

"Hey guys I found three extra lives today."

"what."

"Hey guys"

"Hey.. *double take* We thought you where dead?!?"

"Nahh its ok i had another guy"

"....."

"Hey guys, I found this weird icon with my face on it above that green tube over there."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUx66ZEDjnQ

Indeed, it could get very absurd.

Crowsterf wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Murex wrote:

Not sure I understand.

"Hey guys I found three extra lives today."

"what."

"Hey guys"

"Hey.. *double take* We thought you where dead?!?"

"Nahh its ok i had another guy"

"....."

As it is now, nobody dies on amia, they just go to sleep and maybe have a fauggy dream. Life tokens are still better. Call them something else if you want to make it more appealing IC.

I love DM sarcasm. I want more.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

It would kill you, because your jumping into a pool of acid. Not getting hit by dribbles and drops, not being sprayed with a bit that may be magically protected, your jumping into a giant pool of acid.

Of course it would kill, but why would it permanently kill? Not even Disintegrate permakills.

It's a spell, you can resist spells from taking place. I imagine if you resist distergrate by succeding the fortitude save then the lethal part is gone and whatever's left is what hits you. So yea, it won't perma-kill. Also if it does hit, well it's a spell, who says that a DM in an event won't turn around and say "Disintergrate = death".

You still haven't explained why the acid permakills you but the Disintegrate doesn't even if you fail the save.

Last edited by Didi on Wed, Dec 16 2009, 14:05 PM, edited 1 time in total.

What if I as a character run a business as a 9th level cleric. [edit: cleric capable of casting 9th lvl spells]

Each of my customers has to give me some personal information which uniquely identifies them, and money to cover both administration costs and 25,000 gold worth of diamonds. They then have to check in with me on a monthly basis, or I will cast true resurrection on them.

Can characters using this service still be permakilled?

Xaviera wrote:

IronAngel wrote:

You have a set of lives that slowly regenerate.

Every death will have consequences increasing in severity: first a temporary ability/level penalty, maybe. Then a movement speed decrease. (Both increasing in duration after more deaths.)

After you have few enough lives left, you go to the Fugue on resurrection. You cannot leave there until a certain time has passed. This step is crucial: it allows political assassinations to actually work!

Once you lose your last life, you go into the Fugue and can't leave at all until your lives regenerate.

There would be a cap on lives, and the penalties would gradually decrease as you succesfully lay low: if you just spent your last life and regenerate two, you will have to suffer the second-worst penalty for death, should you die before you regenerate more.

Raise, Resurrection and scrolls would affect this penalty as appropriate.'

Now that I've looked at this in more detail, I note that it avoids the issue of permadeath entirely in favour of penalties. However, it really it only penalizes people who die a lot in a relatively short period of time (5-10 times a week, maybe?). Someone who dies once a month will take a minor penalty (-1 to a single stat?) for a few hours and that will be it. The severity of death only adds up when it happens often.

I think the incentives to avoid death (the temporary penalties) should be harsh from day one. My idea of 0-3 points lost in each stat + 0-3 levels drained would do this, and repeated deaths while still recovering would result in cumulative penalties, thus accomplishing the same thing you've suggested with more initial oomph. We could replace the 'Dead' label on characters at negative hit points with 'Unconscious' save if one stat was knocked below 3 (or 2, or 1) as a result of the cumulative penalties, at which time the character could then go to the Fugue plane as deceased with whatever consequences that would entail in terms of time to regenerate.

This would stop people from claiming they've 'died 3 times today' - they're just unconscious/comatose and have to be carried off. If they happened to be soloing, it's explained by the fact that they weren't actually dead (though they may have been left for dead) but managed to crawl into cover long enough to heal a bit and regain consciousness. It would also make minmaxing PCs by giving them 6 CHA potentially dangerous. :twisted:

Delete Raise Dead scrolls entirely (if the PC is 'unconscious' then Heal will suffice) and make 'true death' (return from the Fugue) require a Resurrection.

Essentially, rather than adding another layer of complexity (tokens), just apply the penalties directly to the character's stats and have those determine whether s/he's 'dead enough' to go to the Fugue.

To be more specific about my own idea:

:arrow:

Upon recovery (respawn, cure, whatever) from 'death' you lose 0-3 levels (40% chance of no loss, 30% chance of 1 lost, 20% ch of 2, 10% ch of 3) and 0-3 from each stat. Each penalty is rolled for independently

:arrow:

Assess the character's recovery periodically (every reset?) - the chance of gaining back 1 point of stat or 1 level is 10% x the negative amount (-2 means 20% chance of going to -1; you could make it 20%/point and/or check every RL hour if you want to make recovery faster). If you've been 'killed' several times and are suffering severe penalties they'll recover quickly from the worst of it but there may be a long time until recovery is complete.

By all means, making it more sophisticated like that is fine. I don't have any specific numbers or effects in mind, I just think the general idea should be something like this.

And to answer Didi about the Raise and Resurrection: I don't know about that, either. Perhaps the spell or scroll you used had some effect on your regeneration rate, or somehow affected the penalty (its duration or magnitude). What exactly is the effect is not so important: the goal is to make cleric-cast spells of greater power better than scrolls.

To Yurell and Didi:
You need the remains of the deceased to resurrect them. (I imagine this does not include hair or nails cut and stored before death.) You can Resurrect someone Disintegrated if you identify the pile of dust and cast the spell on it, but you can't cast it into the general direction of a pool of acid and expect the guy spring up from there. True Resurrection only needs identification, but no PC on Amia has True Resurrection. It's not part of NWN, so it can safely be ignored as a normal possibility.

IronAngel wrote:

To Yurell and Didi:
You need the remains of the deceased to resurrect them. (I imagine this does not include hair or nails cut and stored before death.) You can Resurrect someone Disintegrated if you identify the pile of dust and cast the spell on it, but you can't cast it into the general direction of a pool of acid and expect the guy spring up from there. True Resurrection only needs identification, but no PC on Amia has True Resurrection. It's not part of NWN, so it can safely be ignored as a normal possibility.

So if I can find a way to unambiguously separate part of them from the acid, I can raise them? I like challenges

Not that I'd raise anyone that stupid, mind, it's the thought experiment that counts.

Do it!!!!!! This would allow me to really develope my own characters, some thing I really haven't been able to to do since all my time here.

The greater the risk, the greater the reward.

ShortSlasher wrote:

Do it!!!!!! This would allow me to really develope my own characters, some thing I really haven't been able to to do since all my time here.

The greater the risk, the greater the reward.

You can already request it, and have been able to since at least as long as I've been joined.

I know that I can commit any of my characters to permadeath (done so to a few already), but to actually have a fear of dying from just monsters will further any characters story.

ShortSlasher wrote:

I know that I can commit any of my characters to permadeath (done so to a few already), but to actually have a fear of dying from just monsters will further any characters story.

I'm adamantly opposed to having it from monsters, and fear of dying should already be in your characters' stories if character development is your focus. Unless I'm misunderstanding, in which case I apologise.

I don't just mean from monsters, but life it'self as a fictional character in a dangerous, magical world.

Fear seems to be one of the rarest things on Amia, and I just want that to change. So fear of death, fear of injury or pain. Fear of capture, or fear towards a infamous villian, or in the villans case, the fear of a hero.

It would be funny if you could rez the acid pool jumping tard in the acid pool. "Rez acid pool jumping tard.... acid pool jumping tard becomes aware just as he dies -again- from still being in a acid pool... repeat"

Yurell wrote:

You still haven't explained why the acid permakills you but the Disintegrate doesn't even if you fail the save.

Dust from desentigrate was once 'Part of the being.' Just got torn apart, but not chemically altered.

The thurough action of the large vat of acid leaves no useable remains.

From that this says True Raise is required:

From that you must then find a cleric (NPC) capable of doing this, as well as a deity willing to grant this -RARE- boon.

In the intereim the following can happen:

Kelemvor already judged the soul. (DM's call.)

The god of the cleric casting True Raise is unwilling to revive someone who died in such a self-destructive manner. (DM's call.)

Thus far I like the idea of having permadeaths for certain DM events. Death is too cheap on Amia. I like having the fear of death being put back into people. If you don't want your character to die then just make up some excuse for them to move on to another area.

I'm a bit iffy about PvP penalties, I don't like the idea of having my characters at the mercy of people who just know how to build better all the time.

Ask you this, Devil's advocate and whatnot:

Are you not at the mercy of anyone that is a better combatant than you in real life?

They simply choose not to enforce the will. Something some folk in 'civilized' society take for granted.. having grown up in the very poor side of town I can assure you though, that the practice of being at the mercy of someone with more 'power' than you.. be it staring down the muzzle of a gun, or someone that can fight better than you, is still every bit real today, as it would be in times like in Amia's setting.

I don't like random penalties upon death, and attribute penalties are a bit harsh too. Maybe no drastic measures should be taken yet. Perhaps just a higher xp and gold penalty upon death would be a good start. From there, more penalties can be added until the proper balance is achieved.

To me an xp/gold penalty is no penalty at all because you dont 'see' it - it doesnt affect you except that you have to kill 10 or 20% more monsters to get the same effect. But you've just jumped up from being dead and you can still swing your weapon with the same vigour. That makes no sense to me.

If you want death to have some meaning, so that people are afraid to die - or even just plain reluctant - make the penalties mean something. And sitting around pretending to nurse your bandaged leg in an inn could facilitate RP.

The penalties should be stiff but not so stiff that you cant (probably) continue your adventure after going down once. The second time, though, you'd better head home in a hurry, and it should keep you from going out again for a while.

IMO.

That's just not in line with what the magic/spells/potions are capable of doing though. >.<

Amia's in FR right? Its magic heavy. This isn't Greyhawk.

What of assassinations?

Gauging interest: FORCED PERMA DEATH!!!!!!

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