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IronAngel wrote:

You could even say that positive energy would only enhance the growth of the cancer cells, making healing spells quite deadly.

This is actually my generic explanation for why such a thing as "positive energy damage" exists and hurts normal people.

Wait... positive energy damage equals temporary cancer? Which can then be cured by applying *more* positive energy (i.e., healing spells)? DnD makes so much sense!

I'd never really given it a lot of thought before, but I guess if someone had asked me whether, say, a 3rd-level paladin is immune to cancer, I'd have assumed that she is. So by my shaky logic, if disease immunity protects you from cancer, then I have no trouble believing that disease removal removes cancer.

Why aren't curative spells considered necromancy?

NWN Wikia wrote:

Spells from the necromancy spell school manipulate, create, or destroy life.

Wikipedia wrote:

Necromancy spells involve death, undeath and the manipulation of life energy.

SRD wrote:

Necromancy spells manipulate the power of death, unlife, and the life force. Spells involving undead creatures make up a large part of this school.

Furthermore, why is the animation of corpses considered more evil than the animation of plants? I can't find anything that mentions harm to the soul that the body originally housed...

Greater Restoration is Necromancy, actually.

As far as why healing is Conjuration...well... it just is. It's literally just mentioned as one of the subsets of Conjuration. So that it is.

Just like why are Figments considered Illusion, instead of Enchantment, when you're cause a target to feel or perceive a certain sensation.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration

Because healing spells aren't defined as functioning by the manipulation of life or life energy. They're described as functioning by channeling a bit positive energy power; i.e., calling forth the natural energies of the positive energy plane. That's conjuration, just the same as summoning a creature from the positive energy plane would be.

But to a certain extent, yeah, Immolation is right; healing is conjuration basically because the game said so. The lines between spell schools often don't make a lot of sense. For example, why is calling on positive energy defined as conjuration, but calling on elemental fire is evocation? Because handwave, that's why.

I'm sure some reason can be made to say why they are Conjuration and not necromancy, but mostly it would just be ad hoc. The source is "most healing spells are conjuration" and the rest we have to build off ourselves.

My guess at an explanation is the way that the spells work. In that while both necromancy and healing conjuration can have the same effect(restoring, modifying, or repairing life), they do so in different ways. Maybe healing Conjuration works by drawing energy form the Positive Energy plane(slowly) so the target heals. Maybe it works by siphoning directly from the deity itself. In whatever way conjuration healing works, it works in a way characteristic of conjuration magic.

This would differ from Necromancy and the "healing" it offers. Necromancy is said to modify life itself. As in giving life, taking it away, or reshaping it altogether. When you're feeding positive energy into a body, you're just helping life do what it already does, just better: heal. Wounds close up, things regrow and fix themselves, just at a faster pace due to the effects of positive energy(this explains why Healing doesnt...or at least isn't... supposed to work on constructs. They have no "life" in the mortal sense of the word). Necromancy is more like, for lack of a better term, bitchslapping Life around. "Life" says "My heart was torn out. I can no longer pump blood. I am now Dead." Necromantic healing says "*slap* No you're not. Get back up." It rewrites the normal laws that apply to life by pretty much brute force. Not in the gentler, supportive way Conjuration healing does.

So to recap, healing through conjuration may just help mortal life do what it already does, but faster and more effectively. This would explain why conjuration healing also hurts undead(you're helping dead flesh do what its supposed to do in the first place, rot, decay, and return to its base elements). On the other hand, Necromancy takes a more direct approach and re-rigs life to exist in a manner outside of the "original" laws, if you will.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Gur

Right, any other mention of the Gur than this? My Google scrolling skills bore no fruit.

Dark Immolation wrote:

I looked for a while, but I couldn't find any more information than was in the FRwiki article. Good news is all three sources it sites are pre-4th edition, so it should be legit in our own time, what little it is.

I couldn't find anything about the Gurs in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. There's only a 2-paragraph blurb about them in Races of Faerun:

Races of Faerun wrote:

Human, Gur

The Gurs, also known as "Selune's Children" or "the people of the highway," are nomads of the Western Heartlands. Most Gurs are members of extended family groups that travel together from settlement to settlement in motley caravans selling cheap cast-offs and working odd jobs. Others have settled in the poorest quarters of cities such as Baldur's Gate, Elturel, and Irieabor, where they struggle to survive in the face of ancient prejudices. Among those few scholars who have studied their culture, the Gurs are thought to be primarily of Rashemi descent. Although they have certainly intermingled with members of other ethnic groups, they strongly resemble the natives of Rashemen. As fragments of lore dating back to the erection of the Standing Stone refer to the nomadic Gurs, it is thought that they fled their ancient homeland during or immediately after the cataclysmic battle between Raumathar and Narfell.

Speakers of an ancient dialect of Rashemi among themselves, the honor-obsessed Gurs employ the Thorass alphabet and speak Chondathan with non-Gurs. Many of Selune's Children are unusually gifted oracles and find employment as soothsayers and diviners. In addition to the goddess of the moon, many prophetically inclined Gurs venerate Savras. Their secretive faith may in large part account for the continued survival of his faith during his many years of imprisonment.

Sorry, took me a bit to find it, or it would have been posted earlier.

Ie Travelling People or Gypsies

IronAngel wrote:

Unlikely, but feasible in churches like that of Baravar Cloakshadow (Knights of the Shadowy Cloak) whose emphasis is on stealth, deception and mischief as ways to protect the gnomish people. There's nothing metaphysically contradictory or iffy about a paladin/shadowdancer, but few would opt to pursue such a path I guess.

Sounds interesting. Any other Orders you know of? Otherwise can you gimme some links to some information I can get on these Shadowy Cloak Knights?~

It's all in Champions of Valor and originally in Demihuman Deities. Here's the substitution class or whatever:
http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-1625-in ... hadow.html

This is the Demihuman Deities entry, with somewhat outdated information on the order (it doesn't include paladins yet):
http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/gnomegods/Baravar.htm

Couldn't find the proper CoV entry online. It's under the "minor organizations" chapter.

Lizzie wrote:

I'd never really given it a lot of thought before, but I guess if someone had asked me whether, say, a 3rd-level paladin is immune to cancer, I'd have assumed that she is. So by my shaky logic, if disease immunity protects you from cancer, then I have no trouble believing that disease removal removes cancer.

Your logic seems reasonable, but I question your premiss. It seems unbelievable that disease immunity would protect you from cancer. It doesn't protect you from obesity, aging, or alcoholism either, which could all be seen as diseases. And I seriously doubt it will protect you from coronary disease, dementia or liver failure, as consequences of the aforementioned.

"All diseases save magical ones". if cancer is a legitimate disease, then yes, it protects from it. It's fairly clear.

Which age category are the dragons you summon (EDK)?

They appear to be huge, which should mean around adult-mature adult (can range from young adult to very old). Depends on type of dragon of course. I don't know if bioware pondered size being tied to age. My question is directed at the Amian dragons.

yeah cancer is a disease according to wiki
"Cancer /ˈkænsər/ ( listen) (medical term: malignant neoplasm) is a class of diseases blah blah blah"

TormakSaber wrote:

"All diseases save magical ones". if cancer is a legitimate disease, then yes, it protects from it. It's fairly clear.

True, but with huge emphasis on the words if and legitimate. The definition of disease is pretty arbitrary and depends on time and place. Something is a disease if it's classified as a disease. Who decides what's a legitimate disease in the Realms, to the rules of magic and the views of the gods? Probably not the Wolrd Health Organization. In the context of the combat mechanics of heroic adventurers, I think it's reasonable to suppose it means (typically infectious) diseases that you might catch from monsters like rats or undead, or from the plague victims you're helping. I suppose you could maintain that a Ring of Disease Immunity prevents obesity or alcoholism, but that's probably not what the game designers had in mind.

This goes for you too, Speedgrab. Anything from infected wounds and atheism to homosexuality and arachnophobia can and has been classified as a disease at one point or another, legitimately or not, but that says nothing about D&D mechanics.

I don't know one way or another. Cure Disease might treat cancer and other tumor growth, it might not. That's up to the flavor of the moment, I suppose. But I think it's important to realise that the answer is not trivial and obvious, and you can't solve it conclusively by looking up WHO's disease classifications. The WHO is a modern political instance like any other, bound to its context.

We'll only have realism on that subject when someone puts on a ring of Immunity: Disease one day and immediately drops dead, proving that life itself is a disease.

IronAngel wrote:

It's all in Champions of Valor and originally in Demihuman Deities. Here's the substitution class or whatever:
http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-1625-in ... hadow.html

This is the Demihuman Deities entry, with somewhat outdated information on the order (it doesn't include paladins yet):
http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/gnomegods/Baravar.htm

Couldn't find the proper CoV entry online. It's under the "minor organizations" chapter.

Thanks for that.

anoter medical lore thingy,
is it possible to be allergic to spells, or types of damedge

speedgrab wrote:

anoter medical lore thingy,
is it possible to be allergic to spells, or types of damedge

Not if you're a paladin. Paladins are immune to allergies. <rimshot!>

But seriously now, folks...

We're talking about a world in which if, you get infected by certain creatures in certain ways, you turn into a FREAKING BEAR. (Or wolf, or whatever.) A wide array of magical diseases are certainly precedented, and although I don't know of any specific reference to magical allergies, I'd have to say... sure, why not?

In fact, the thought occurs to me of how interesting it would be to play a specialist wizard who's not a specialist because he's enthusiastic about his chosen school, but because he's allergic to his opposition school.

I have a PC with an addiction to a certain spell. I see no reason another PC couldn't have the same sort of thing, but opposite.

Even beyond the idea that the setting is a world of fantasy, even IRL an addiction/allergy can be almost anything. In some cases they are nothing more than psychological responses to stimuli, if you think of them in a certain way. I could be addicted to always touching the number "3" when I see it in print, or I could go into a fit of coughing every time I see the picture of a picture of a bear. Those things aren't addictions/allergies in the completely medical sense of the word, but they're ticks that work just the same in any case.

For instance, my PC physically has no need for the spell. But his body will form a psychosomatic response to the lack of it all the same. If you want to RP your mage having an conniption every time they come in contact with a cold subschool spell, I doubt anyone will have a problem with that.

Khylaria wrote:

Sorry, took me a bit to find it, or it would have been posted earlier.

Repulsive indifference.

not sure if this is lore so much as it is language...

...how do you pernounce "caraigh" ??

I ask because I've just realised this has been driving me bonkers for a while, I was sure at one point there was an L in there >_> and 'kar rah igg' doesn't sound right to me...? >_<

so yea, how does one pernounce that word.

I've always pronounced it in my head like Austin Powers saying the name "Carrie."

KER-ray (baby)

There's no right way, because it's not a canon location and Amia hasn't been in the habit of giving pronunciation advice.

I'd pronounce it "car-righ" as in an informal "right" without the t. But people have completely different ideas, and it would be cool to hear them talk about Amia in person.

As per Kjetta's example, Hoar is not to be pronounced as "whore" but rather "who-are". I also scoff at anyone who says Cordor like "corridor" without an i, when it should clearly be pronounced in a French-like fashion "Cor-dieu".

Except that's not how "or" is pronounced in French.

Svensk is silly. He wants to know which subrace is applied to people from the Shining Plains, or more specifically, Ormath? I told him it's default, but he doesn't have any faith in me.

And I just pronounce it like Durai only starting with Car instead of Dur.

Logicality wrote:

Except that's not how "or" is pronounced in French.

I wouldn't know, I've never studied French. Neither has Montgomery, but that's how you pronounce Cordor!

Well, it's more like something between dieu and d'or (which sounds quite different from the plain or you linked to).

Cordor is French?

That explains a lot.

cordor is like, venice, I thought...same structural properties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Venezia_2004.jpg deffinatly some similarities imo.

hm, Car-ai makes the most sense to me thinking about it, though its been a long time since I said or read anything french, heh. je nais comprende.

Glyph wrote:

cordor is like, venice, I thought...same structural properties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Venezia_2004.jpg deffinatly some similarities imo.

hm, Car-ai makes the most sense to me thinking about it, though its been a long time since I said or read anything french, heh. je nais comprende.

the difference is that the river is a public toilet for goblins and kobolds.

Well, it's just the flavor I've always imagined. Cordor is a backwater melting pot trying to come off as snobbish and cosmopolitan. Of course there's no official statement on how you must imagine things.

Hardly backwater, and it is easily the most cosmopolitian area on the island.

French? No. That's Cormyr. iirc Cordor has its ground in Neverwintan or Waterdhavian settlers, according to Yossarin's very large comprehensive writeup that was unfortunately lost in the recent forum issues.

I say "Cor-dor" because that's how it's said! My defense: Yossarin says "Cor-Dor" and he runs the joint.

I also say "car-righ", for what it's worth!

Cordor is pronounced социализм.

I've always read "Caraigh" as being pronounced like the proper name "Craigh" except with in extra smidge of syllable. So, Ka-RAYG.

I pronounce Caraigh Kar-ai

I also pronounce Cordor Core-door

^-^

Say Care-egg with a Scottish accent and thats what it sounds like to me.

"Cry".

'Caa-ray'.

Or 'Carray'.

I'm looking for information on how magic items are created, namely weapons, armor, anything that starts as a raw material and is crafted/carved/forged with the specific intent to be imbued magically. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm

note the mention of masterwork items being the initial cost, it has been said that this technically means the item must be of decent craftsmanship prior to magical enchantment.

So if you ask a wizard to enchant your bog standard dagger for you they are most likely to say "what is this tat? bring me another one."

Using the weapon/armour smith jobs ingame combined with a high spellcraft could mean you meet both the initial crafting specs and enchanting specs, becoming the worlds most powerful crafter of arms and or expert in exotic armour. =D

I should also point out as far as pnp goes crafting a wizard staff, a proper one, absolutely requires at least a 12th level caster, if I be remembering correctly. that was however not in the srd but the dungeon masters manual. 3.5 ed.

also it is said that gold is one of the best materials for magical enchantment, but a pure gold weapon is a mighty sketchy prospect since mechanically it -will- snap in battle.

ed: all of the above is roughly speaking, if you we're experimenting to find the right materials for say, an orb of metal that contains a magical spell released on the use of a keyword, you could try different metals, try moulding it with a crystal at the center, enscribe various runes, the skys the limit.

also I found it on the srd after all

Quote:

Craft Staff [Item Creation]
Prerequisite

Caster level 12th.

ed: on a different note, regarding a small argument of lore I noticed the other day ingame, THERE ARE NO DARKELVES IN DND. THATS WOW. thank you and good day.

Glyph wrote:

ed: on a different note, regarding a small argument of lore I noticed the other day ingame, THERE ARE NO DARKELVES IN DND. THATS WOW. thank you and good day.

...Gah? Dark elves have their roots in Tolkien, probably Norse mythology also (which is a clusterflargh when it comes to dwarves/elves and their relationship with modern fantasy conventions if you ask me). If I recall correctly they exist in the FR setting, just they were all turned into drow at some point, which are different, (and I think in 4th ed some of them got better). They're called Ssri'tel'quessir, and they were one of the elven subraces before things got ugly. I think.

Isn't WoW famous for night elves anyway, not dark?

Drow are dark elves. They weren't always drow, they were indeed known as Ssri-Tel'Quessir. That doesn't mean "dark elf" as a name is somehow limited or even typical to to those ancient elves. Your run-of-the-mill peasant is going to talk about the mythical dark elves who come under cover of night, not necessarily drow.

The distinction of redeemed dark elves as a race of their own is a 4e invention, you can ignore that.

Way back in 2.5 I recall there being a distinction between Dark Elves and Drow. Dark Elves being pseudo Draconic in that they could somehow transform into a Black dragon when underground by utilizing the faerzress. I would need to head to my parents house and dig through my old memos in the attic though to find the source. The whole concept was dumped with the advent of 3.0 as memory serves.

how many umber hulks was in the world during 2nd edition?

DustSpray101 wrote:

Way back in 2.5 I recall there being a distinction between Dark Elves and Drow. Dark Elves being pseudo Draconic in that they could somehow transform into a Black dragon when underground by utilizing the faerzress. I would need to head to my parents house and dig through my old memos in the attic though to find the source. The whole concept was dumped with the advent of 3.0 as memory serves.

Never heard of that. There's no mention in Drow Of The Underdark, Elves of Evermeet, Cormanthyr or other elven-related products. It could be a core D&D thing, though. In 3.5 in the War Of The Spider Queen series, there's a group of secretive drow descended from a shadow dragon and working against the Lolthite cities.

Quote:

how many umber hulks was in the world during 2nd edition?

however many you want there to be, 2nd editon is a vastly vague term for alot of different settings. as for types according to wiki there we're undead hulks introduced in 2nd ed, and umber hulks themselves date back to good ol' 1st ed =)

its like asking how many ants live in your garden, unless i'm not getting what you meant

ed: ugh, right the dark elves thing....no...simply no...drow, are not, dark elves. in any way. I would hate to have to dig into elven lore since I usually avoid elves myself but if I must >_> I may be wrong about dark elves existing however.

Glyph wrote:

ed: ugh, right the dark elves thing....no...simply no...drow, are not, dark elves. in any way. I would hate to have to dig into elven lore since I usually avoid elves myself but if I must >_> I may be wrong about dark elves existing however.

Yes, they are. You're wrong. Iron has already explained this. And the Warcraft universe doesn't even have 'dark elves'. Get your sources right before trying to pass stuff off as fact, man!

Glyph wrote:

ed: ugh, right the dark elves thing....no...simply no...drow, are not, dark elves. in any way. I would hate to have to dig into elven lore since I usually avoid elves myself but if I must >_> I may be wrong about dark elves existing however.

Now you're just pulling stuff out of your ass, sorry. Drow are, and have always been, dark elves. This is nothing new or obscure, it's pretty much the standard term every source refers to them as. The first words of the 2e (FR) Drow Of The Underdark are "Drow. The Dark Elves." The title of the race's chapter in Races of Faerûn is "Elf, Drow (Dark Elf)". Try not to spread false information in this topic, baseless misconceptions are the very thing this topic exists to destroy.

If you're talking about a social caste of exiled elves like Dalamar the Dark in Dragonlance, that's a completely different concept for a completely different setting. (Edit: Or, what Sune said.)

this is what you get when you mix mythologies. i'm out, i'm pretty sure a drow would spit at being called a dark elf.

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