The factor that might have to do with popularity is that when I was approached regarding this IC rule, it was not in a friendly manner, it was not in a "RP" manner. It was basically two words - "Weapon away" - uttered in a nearly ooc manner, in such a way as though it were more a chore than part of ic rp.

I personally tried to make rp out of the nearly ooc two words, and instead was instantly threatened with pvp. And, I've seen it happen exactly the same way with other players, quite frequently. Frequent being nearly every time I'm in Bendir. This would include when I played my Hin. Which I stopped. When I was on the receiving end of this, I felt like someone who was being accosted for ooc rulebreaking, not someone who was participating in friendly (oocly friendly) rp.

Things like that make us seem like a griefer-friendly, might makes right, server. If I'd been a brand new player, I'd have left and tried elsewhere. Luckily for me, nothing like that happened to me when I *was* brand new (although I did get into two of the only pvp incidents I've ever been in, way back then - but both were much better played out, with rp before and after, and ooc friendliness. THAT is something that seems to have changed for the worse, despite the many many changes for the better).

_________________
Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!

Grymia: I can't even be arsed to look away from the chat screen when I RP, let alone inspect what PCs are wearing/holding. When my wizard is told to remove his helmet, I just say he casts Invis on it and keep it on. >_>

To be fair though, Mago: it's perfectly valid if there's RP about it. Just like you can PvP a race that's banned from a city, if they don't leave. And I daresay race is a valid reason in the wilderness, too: if an elf comes across a drow, it's certainly kosher and outright desireable to get into conflict that will sooner end in bloodshed than compromise, I reckon. Basically any IC reason is valid, provided sufficent RP.

Cori: I can relate with the chore part. I get so annoyed if I feel I'm being bossed around or patronized on an OOC level, that I do my best to apparently concede but in an infuriating manner. See above: making my helmet invisible.

_________________

An unsheathed weapon could potentially be used to harm someone.

A non-Banite could potentially turn into someone who would oppose and harm the followers of Bane.


So... we got rights to start telling people "Convert to Bane or die" -> *PK* now?

_________________
Darthion Illys

Join the Banites!

Within PvP rules, why not? Of course, the appropriate IC out provided will most of the time be more viable than converting to Bane: unless you've already been caught, or driven into a corner for some reason, you can just run for your life. Or something. If you're continuously an ass about it, you'll probably be reported and told to tone it down.

But in general: why wouldn't it be cool to kill in the name of religion?

_________________

Uh....Mago seems more in line with the rules in this matter, in this instance Iron.

While "realistically" an elf and drow meeting would/should "get into it" and possibly result in a fight, it's always been pretty standard in the pvp rules that race is not sufficient reason to pk someone.

Seriously, the pvp rules infer that a lot more than "weapon away or die" is supposed to be needed to get into pvp.

And related - regarding the bit about telling people with a spear or large wep to unequip it and rply leave it with the militia - it's a Hin town... who the hell would trust a Hin to not steal their weapon when they willingly leave it with one? Hin do have rather a set stereotype, which no few players play into with their Hin characters.

That's not rp. Yes, this is one time I'll outright criticize other players' rp, something I don't regularly do. "Weapon away", followed by "weapon away or die", is not rp.

_________________
Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!

So, if the laws of an area say you "remove your helmet," and there are NPC guards... you meta them?

Just asking.

_________________
Playing:
Marcus Valis

In most situations, Vaelmith will give a second warning if the first time a person doesn't comply to his request to disarm. (be mindful: This is where he'd be in the Monolith where he is basically for all intents and purposes, a Guardsman)

However: If you're already in a situation which is somehow tense (Imminent attack, an incident has happened very recently *IE 10-15 minutes RL time) , then honestly, you might not be getting as many warnings.

Theres already a thread about that weapon sheathe thingy in Bendir when I was really annoyed I couldn't RP my hin to lean his warhammer on his shoulders. Can't find it though.

Edit, there it is: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=32910

Grymia, if you give warnings about weapons consisting of "Weapon away", followed by "Weapon away or die", then my opinion of you will drop immensely.

I hope you are better than that.

I'm not exaggerating about the above in any way.

Edit: Also, where is the logic behind allowing a wizard/sorc to keep their staff equipped, when it's a virtual guarantee that said staff strongly enhances their spellcasting abilities, but flipping out over someone leaning a spear on their shoulder, which frankly is the best rp/IC thing they can do with said spear? It's FAR less IC, to unequip a spear or trident straight into your inventory. The answer: It's an ooc consideration regarding setting up spellslots, as to why mages can keep their staff equipped.

So an ooc consideration allows something ICly foolish, while an attempt to remain IC is met with hostility and two-word preparation for pvp.

Does this not seem like a problem?

_________________
Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!

The point of that post was to point out that -neither- should be, nor would be sufficient to PvP someone.

We don't stay 100% accurate to the lore because of the fact that we're not playing Banites in a PnP setting with 5 other players and a DM. We make adjustments to ensure that everyone can be given a chance of enjoying this game. And that includes not PKing someone over a flat out stupid and asshatery reason.

_________________
Darthion Illys

Join the Banites!

My warnings tend to be more verbose and try to follow a continum of force.

While it may not be fun RP, one of the functions of the Triadic Knights, the Weave Knights, the Protectorate of Tarkuul, is to serve in defense of an area both at the Civil, and Military levels.

That means, you see someone in the area you are responsible for protecting armed, you have to deal with it.

Nivo: it's pretty irrelevant. I could just as well say it's not a helmet, but rather a hood, hat, crown or circlet that only looks like a helmet because of NWN limitations. As far as I am aware, any and all helmet rules in the game have been player-initiated and left for players to enforce (that's certainly the case in Ultrinnan, which is the only town I know has such laws of the ones I RP in).

Cori: the PvP rules make no mention of race. And it's quite deliberate that any such mention was left out, because it's supposed to be a valid reason. Hells, I would encourage it: duergar and dwarves, elves and drow, goblins and everyone else should be at each others' throats. That's sort of the point of those races.



This is what the rules say. Alignment is not an acceptable reason, because it's OOC. If you happen to be a murderous bigot who hates all gnomes, and it's an actual part of your RP, that's an IC reason and not just because of your alignment. If it's also portrayed in your RP, it would fall under "a sensible reason." That you are the defender of a town whose laws are being intentionally broken by an individual who refuses to co-operate is also a sensible reason.

The chance to back down is reasonable. To sheathe your weapon or step outside town walls is a reasonable chance. Going with you for hours-long RP to convert to Bane is not a reasonable chance.

In case of player disagreement about reasonable, consult DMs.


The situation you describe, Cori, seems quite lame. It may not be against the rules, but it's to be frowned upon, nonetheless. I would expect more RP from my co-players, and would confront any players I see doing that as a DM (especially if they represent NPCs with official authority). But again: can't change what you can't see.

_________________

In regards to your point about Staves, that is a valid point and Vael unless given reason to believe that Staff is gonna suddenly become a weapon (IE: the person through emotes shows intent he's gonna use it or in point of fact DOES use it) doesn't tend to consider them weapons (though he does keep mindful of them all the same)

That's my point - reporting something that's against the rules is one thing. Reporting something because it's absurd and pathetic, is not worth the time or hassle, because it would only (rightly) get the response you gave, Iron.

Hover around Bendir sometimes when you are DMside Iron, when it's got a handful of Hin in it. You'll see virtually exactly what I described. I can very nearly guarantee it, because I see it every time I'm in Bendir on any character. And as all my characters deal with Prescia, some regularly, I'm in Bendir rather a lot, even if it's just a quick passing through, for business.

I will say I've never seen anyone get pk'd over the matter, though. But I'm entirely with Mago on this.

_________________
Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!

I would respectfully disagree. Using Kohlingen as an example. There is a ban on several races. The easiest way to determine if someone entering the city is one of these, is to ask for the removal of their helmet.

And, if the helmet itself is not actually concealing the face, then an explanation of this and an honest answer in regards to facial features. "You'd see a drow." "You'd see an ugly human." And so forth, seem entirely reasonable.

_________________
Playing:
Marcus Valis

And that *IS* entirely reasonable, if you ask someone to remove their helmet and they rp it as being invis, or as being a circlet. If they do this, but refuse to indicate their race/whatever, then they are in teh wrong, and *that* is somethign that should be reported to a dm.

_________________
Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!

If we were to look at it completely IC assuming NWN mechanics, it makes no sense anyhow: a PC can have a cache of weapons invisible in his inventory, which he can equip instantly as a free action. So, if you know something is just tedious and not fun for anyone, there's no compelling IC reason to get involved: your PC could know from experience that the weapon doesn't go anywhere far, and that it can appear in the owner's hand in a split second. This is perfectly valid reasoning IC, and I doubt you could counter it with any credibility.

Of course, I'd rather maintain some suspension of disbelief, but it's not as if you have to do your duty because you'd otherwise be OOC. I think this notion that PCs have to do something unpleasant because it's their job is usually the cause of many problems, because neither the player in question or the targets of his action really enjoy it. Well, not when it's conceived as an OOC chore, anyhow. And then, if the RP is interesting and enjoyable, there should be no trouble to begin with.

_________________

Indeed. You're both correct. I'm more referring to cases where my four-years old epic wizard that everybody knows hangs around in Ultrinnan, and some irritating priestess comes telling him to take off his helmet because she says so, or something.

_________________

Honestly, when people complain like this about following laws ICly it rather kills my drive to do any political RP on Amia. It actually took a hell of a lot of IC politicking, meetings, discussions, campaigning etc. to get the Dale laws set into place. It seems no matter what you do here, people want to rag on it or feel "inconvenienced" by it. If you fight other players a lot, you're a dirty power-building PvPer (or even called a griefer). If you want to get involved with romances, family, or friends you're a Sims-like social player and dismissed. If you want to focus on the job system and work on your business you're not playing real DnD and shouldn't be able to earn any real xp or gold from it. Now I'm hearing if you try to change the world ICly (even only a town's laws) you're apparently forcing your RP style on other people, grabbing for power, and/or nitpicking about supposedly stupid things. I have tried pretty much all of these in some form or another with various characters and all I've seen so far is that the "RP how you like" line basically means go out there blind attempting something, often by yourself, and listen to people whine about it on the forums afterward or basically ignore/avoid you in-game.

What exactly is there then, besides spawn "hunting", loot/gold farming, and the very occasional DM plot (which is only limited to certain characters generally) to do on the server? If somebody is really that annoyed by having to sheathe their weapon that they would leave the server, well, good riddance I guess? I'm not buying the large weapon argument either, unless you're honest-to-goodness only carrying in your inventory what your character could physically keep on his person. Otherwise, say you stuck it in one of your dozen magic bags and realize that although it may not seem like a whole lot of RP to you right then, when told to to sheathe it, it doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't a lot of RP behind it.

_________________
Former characters:
Dawnbringer Goodmane
Gralg Elfbane
Ukre Cobcruncher
Ug Rhalac

Well, that's the thing: if it doesn't seem to me like there's a whole lot of RP there, a genuine desire to entertain me and interact with me for mutual enjoyment, I'm not going to react very positively. It's the basics of RP and human interaction: people give you the attitude you give them. If you annoy me, I'll do my best to annoy you back. (Well, that's the urge, at least; I tend to hold me back and stay civilized as far as possible.)

I doubt anyone has a problem with the IC law. Some people seem to have problems with the OOCly bossy and patronizing attitude with which it is supposedly enforced (and I do not know if it is), and that's what evokes a reaction.

Personally, you could sell me almost any nonsense if you were entertaining, interesting, intelligent and pleasant enough about it. But you'd have a hard time convincing me 2+2=4, if I feel you're patronizing me or RPing half-heartedly. I'm proud and vain, and I'm not the only one with that flaw.

_________________

While we're on the subject, I find the gates where you need to remove your helmet pretty annoying. Playing as a mage, it means I lose some INT and have to re-select and re-memorize a number of spells every time I go through.

_________________
Born to a [wealth level] family, you spent your early years doing [early activity] in [town type]. Your father was [father status], while your mother was [mother status]. You left your homeland at the age of [chosen age], seeking [reason for leaving].

Yes, and that's my thing though. If all you're doing is waltzing into Bendir Dale without a word to hock your l00ts to Jayek cuz he's got the best prices, and you give Ukre crap about sheathing your weapon, which is probably what happens nine out of ten times I see this personally, then yes, ICly AND OOCly I'm going to be very curt with you in telling you to sheathe it or get out. The attitude that you deserve to be entertained by other people just for showing up somewhere, when it's clear there was no real attempt to entertain them in return, is far more annoying to me than any supposedly patronizing attitude on the part of persons who have worked to make a place. It takes half a second to click a weapon or helmet icon, yet I'm supposed to give how much time exactly of mine own before it's acceptable to expend that half a second?

If someone merely shows up and demands "high quality RP" from me, when it's clear to me no like effort will be expended on their part they should be glad they get a "put your weapon away or get out". Especially when I've been standing guard for an hour or more I'm not always going to be in the mood or some lengthy recital of the history of how and why the Dale has a no weapons law, particularly as this is not difficult information to discover on one's own, if they are really interested. Even moreso given how little most people actually appreciate that sort of thing anyway, usually just being agitated at having to take a nanosecond away from running in to sell loot and back out again to another hunting area.

_________________
Former characters:
Dawnbringer Goodmane
Gralg Elfbane
Ukre Cobcruncher
Ug Rhalac

Some people are leaving because quite the opposite reason, which is Amia becoming more ''hardcore''.

There is a lot of conflict, pvp and bullying going on, though there is nothing to report as no actual rules are being broken and dms even seem to favor such. The amia forest is pretty much dead and so is the grove, which is part due to badly executed dm plots, but mostly due to bullies and pvpers coming to crash rp and push their muscles around. See banites, kellies, winyan blockades and patrols.

They don't technically break any rules. But if you put up a checkpoint to stripsearch people and kill those who refuse, in a peaceful area no less, you are forcing yourself upon others, causing characters to be required to engage in conflict rp or have their rp disrupted.

The dms seem to have adopted the stance that this is how it should be, because apparently RP that does not have action or conflict in it is not real rp. You can't even opt out of things anymore, in the past when some banite tried to pvp and capture you, you could just tell them you don't want to occly and they had to leave you alone, now you are forced to suck it up and ''roll with it''.

Things used to be much more free and consent was required for pretty much anything involving another character. Amia got it's huge player base by having a reputation for being a free for all server where you could rp however you liked without being bothered by those who consider fun to be something different than you. Social rpers could have their tea parties while conflict seeking characters had their conflict, and both groups left each other alone, by avoiding eachother and occly bending their rp for the sake of the players fun.

Nowadays the two cultures are forced to clash and it's clear the action gamers and conflict rpers are winning.


Another reason for the fall in numbers are people being more and more unhappy with the events the dms run. The forest has been gradually destroyed by actions beyond the players controll and attempts at renewal were met with failure, if not ending up making things worse.

Ultrinaan is dead because of the plague plot which again got forced onto players with only negative consequences and effects, all the while leaving the players feeling like they were powerless to do anything about it.

I think for the later reason, the problem is that the dms are out of touch with their players and vice versa. Dms aren't running the kind of events players want. Instead of being made to lose or trying to put adventurers into their place, let them win and feel like heroes.

It's quite clear that the dms are trying to make people feel negative consequences, that they don't want to let you win unless you work your arse for it, and trying to teach adventurers that they are not as great and powerfull as they think.


Amia has been changing its direction for some time really, and it's more than clear to many. It's just not the amia it used to be, with a lot of principles changing and things that used to be granted being taken away.

This seems to be a concious push from the staff, in the perma dead thread some even openly admit to wanting a change of server culture. The leaving players are ones that don't want to change or found that amia is no longer what they signed up for.

Amia's high player numbers came from it a server for the casual player, often reffed to as rp lite. It's changing to something more hardcore and ''serious'' rp, so it's only natural the casual players will leave.

The confiscating of weapons(which Bendir does not do, they only ask you put them away) while a person is in a city is of real life historical record. You don't like Bendir's laws? Don't go there. They aren't asking you to drop your drawers & bend over, they aren't asking you to do anything unreasonable, they are in fact enforcing a perfectly legit Bendir law. What happens in Cordor if a guard tells someone to do something & that person doesn't do it? That person is either smashed flat or taken to jail. Bendir has no jail so offenders are escorted out of town(to which they come right back onto Bendir lands) or taken care of by force.

_________________
YANKEE ROSE
-----------------

I would actually like to Apologize to those that I made specific complaint about when I should have just concentrade on teh actual issues at hand instead. If my OP was taken in offense toward them, again I apologize, the forums are here to *enhance* Amia not to slander.

As far as the issues, most of the posts seem to be hitting on what my original issues were about and that was the "too quick to jump to violence" knee jerk reaction rather than take a few moments to let things transpire and play out. Obviously i don't mean those people that are just asking for it, but those one that may have forgotten or just don't know any better

Hi Valas. Didn't we tell you to stop posting and simply read? Or do you like to continue harassing the forums like you harassed and stalked some of our female players in game and through MSN and Googling them on the web, trying to track them down in RL and leading to your ban that will NEVER EVER be lifted? Yes, that is why Valas was banned. He was sexually harassing and stalking players on Amia. That is his giant vendetta against us, and it is why every account he ever makes immediately has its avatar and PMing abilities turned off: Because he was harassing those players with PMs of sexually vulgar content and massive amounts of obscenities.

This is why he was banned, and why the DM team has zero compunctions about singling him out on the forums for verbal abuse and immediate rebanning, along with toying with his forum names.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Your using OOC logic to justify why the IC is wrong. The IC doesn't have to be right, just fair OOCly. And, frankly, this is fair.

Also, putting your weapon away is nothing like asking someone to change their alignment or race. Alignments are blurred lines in the IC world and races simply are. You can't make yourself a Human if you're an Elf, unless you're a shifter or some such. Almost anyone can put a weapon away though. It's very very different.

You assume that only the PC's that you can see exist. unseen NPC's exist too. Adventurers don't make up the large percentage of Amians, in truth. So yes, weapons out can quiet logically be seen as a threat if a PC chooses to view it that way.

_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth

You're making assumptions without truly knowing here. Who ever said the IC has to be logical anyway? If your character finds it illogical that weapons have to be put away, but not staffs, deal with it IC. Your OOC feelings on that being stupid are irrelevant, 'cause frankly, it is kinda stupid that it is that way. But if the characters ICly feel it's logical, then it is what it is. It has nothing to do with spell slots. And I can say that because I was there when all these rules were made.



Who's to say that's not just how the character is? That's why I try to be nice OOCly, so that people realize that I'm just being true to character and not trying to be a jerk to them OOCly when Willow snaps at people. Not only that, but when you say few words that make come across as a bit OOC or jerk-ish, it's nice to add some emotes or something to it, so they get the picture that you're not just being an ass and trying to get them to follow a little law and then get rid of them. Effort is golden people.

But yeah, I'll agree that it's kinda annoying to get something so short, sure. So I'll give you this. That is kinda lame. I won't lie though, I've caught myself doing something similar before when I was militia. We're human, we do dumb shit.

I'm really only ever short like that with people who are known enemies to my character. That's not to say I'm not willing to RP further, just that my character wants to get rid of you as soon as possible and doesn't care to chit chat since you already know the drill from many times previous.



And here, again, I say, if this is how your character feels, express it. Talking about the fact that a lot of Hin steal OOCly isn't doing anything. Hell, bringing this up when asked to put your weapon away would spark some fun RP, possibly. Probably some sort of conflict RP, but still.



It's amazing how easy it is to know it's you, Valas. Needless to say, I disagree with -almost- everything you said. One thing though, I find it funny how you complain about conflict RP, yet you used to play a protector... Do you see what's wrong there? You -chose- to be a protector. That, by default, puts you in a niche player base that see's conflict often. It's like being Cordor guard, a Triadic Knight, a EO Kellie or a Bendir Dale Militia. Kinda silly to be mad about conflict when you willingly played who you played.

_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth

In spite of Valas' rampant status as an internet predator, he does raise a solid point. There is a huge culture change occurring in Amia. Yes, it the DM team does openly support it. Yes, the conflict and action RP'ers do seem to be winning it.

I think Valas' own explanation of the situation displays very clearly why the change has had to come. The degree of interactive RP has increased over the past three years, PC-to-PC, faction-to-faction. Inevitably, the two camps Valas speaks would meet.

Inevitably, the two camps Valas speaks of would vie for something.

In Valas' idyllic image of what Amia used to be, the anti-conflict players were just as vicious, pernicious, greedy and conniving as the pro-conflict players. Only, as Valas points out, they had a perfect shield they could throw up:

"I don't want to acknowledge your RP."

And so, the anti-conflict players were able to steal the limelight, time and again, engage themselves in a game of capture the flag and go for the flag and when they were close to the flag and the pro-conflict team stepped in to block the way, they said, "No, we ignore your RP because it is unfair to us."

And stole the flag.

What you have now is an Amia teetering and trying to have a balancing act to adjust the inherent unfairness of Valas' camp of anti-conflict players taking all the prestige and glory and refusing OOC'ly to be knocked down by anyone else.

To say that Amia is bending low to lick the boots of pro-conflict players is disingenuous, and ignores the bigger picture. What Valas envisions for Amia is still entirely possible, but it really requires the playerbase to understand and comprehend the bigger picture.

Let me cut to the chase on the heart of the Bendir Dale issue.

It is absolutely, 100% reasonable for a city to have and advertise laws that demand you to have your weapons sheathed. Peace-ties should be a common thing in larger cities - Cordor doesn't use them because, traditionally, the city has attracted the adventuring class...and although the population rallies against them, the laws are very slow in keeping track with their hatred. There is nothing wrong with drawing your weapon in Bendir Dale and having all of the hin and militia go, "Put your weapon away!"

There is a problem with resorting to PvP too hastily, and I believe that is the crux of the problem with those who have a bone to pick in Bendir Dale. As I said, I have never seen it IC, but oh ho ho, I have seen it DMside. I have no nostalgia for a fat and happy hin village. I like Bendir Dale as it is because it is now what you would expect.

It should not be this:

"Put your weapon away."
"No."
"Put your weapon away or we'll kill you."
"Why should I? I don't have to back to you!"

PVP!

It should be something more like this:

"Put your weapon away."
"No."
"You should realize it is against the law to have a weapon out. It implies that you are going to take hostile action."
"No, I just want to make sure you don't take any hostile action against me!"
"We won't, if you put your weapon away."
"Never."
"So be it."

And no PVP...just follow the person around until they put the weapon away. There is no need for PvP until the person with the weapon drawn attacks somebody. Also, yes, I say "should" and "should not" be in a way that sounds like I am telling you how I think you ought to RP. And I am. But don't take offense. It is a take it or leave it thing if you disagree, not trying to force it.

The immediate bum-rush into PvP in that instance begs the question of overkill. There is nothing wrong with having the law and enforcing the law, but there is something squirrely about enforcing the law with open violence.

And there is another alternative, too. Some people get freaked out by PvP mechanics. So surprise them by doing it in emotes, instead, just to see if they play along. What can it hurt?

"Put your weapon away."
"Blow me."
"Blow you? You impertinent ragamuffin, I will! I'll blow you from here to Tarkuul!"
"You're just a blowhard. Get out of my face and leave me be."
"Not until you respect the laws of the Dale and sheathe...that...weapon!"
"NEVER!"
*Reaches out a hand to try to grapple the weapon holder's hand*
// Necessary Grapple rolls...or not. They're not always necessary, if the person just wants to be grappled for the sake of drama, which is cool.
*Has his hand grabbed, and backhands the guard across the mouth, shouting* Let go!
That does it! *The guard doesn't loose his grip, but brings the weapon-holder's wrist down, crushing it and grinding it between his palm and his knee until he is forced to drop the weapon or have his wrist broken*

And soforth and so on. Be creative, people.

The point to the Bendir folks (and to anyone else that leaps to PvP quickly) is that while others ought to roll with your punches, you ought to at least give a little thought to your fellow player's desire to have interaction, and not to merely have a challenge meted out with fastidious PvP so that you can "move on with what you're doing".

We all know the kind of antagonistic little player that comes along just to start shit. Some of them do it to be a prick, and others do it because they don't have any other way to get some prolonged roleplay out of other people, whether because as a player they're limited their options, or the character they play limits their options.

One of the sadder things I've seen (and yes, it happened in Bendir Dale) was the player of an obnoxious kobold or goblin or something that was a really nice player and just wanted to be able to interact with what he thought were the "good roleplayers" in Bendir Dale, and to do so without having to make a hin and become part of the club. He was, predictably, somewhat antagonistic. And he didn't mind getting PvP'd. But he wanted more dialogue, more roleplay, more interaction, and not the immediate sword in the guts, lock the gates, and continue to RP without him.

And he really didn't want the flood of nasty OOC tells that came his way, either, when in his own way he was just trying to interact with his fellow players.

That isn't the norm, and that anecdote wasn't intended to guilt anyone. It was meant to express my concern and fear over the dangers of moving to PvP too quickly during an encounter, and what can be sacrificed. And how sometimes you let your want to "return to what you were doing" completely demolish another player's attempt to just get involved and RP with the community.

Or even just with you, because he likes you.

Eugh, I violated my own rule of not making a post so big you have to scroll. Fuck me.

You could always cut it into thirds :>

_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

Regarding Yoss' point about the handling.

In the case of a person solely having their weapon out, but elsewise not doing anything hostile that is actually the best handling of it. Follow and or make sure the situation doesn't degenerate.

If the person just keeps it out but causes no other trouble, fair enough keep an eye. They start attacking people or menacing, then further action is required depending on what is happening.

While I agree just 'Weapon away' .. then followed shortly after (unless the person has made their lack of compliance clear) .. 'Weapon away or die' is bloody stupid.. at the same time, if say a major fight has just occured and pulled away from the area , some new person coming in Weapons drawn that doesn't have the colours of the respective city/area, or is someone recognized to be aiding the city/area's defense forces could very well be another aggressor that'd been in hiding, or an oppritunist.

Any situation involving violence or potential violence isn't something to bandy about with.

Well, that pretty much summed it up for me... It took several responses but this was the true point of the original post I made, this is how I generally try to RP ALL interactions without caring wheather or not I win the dispute, rather to just allow for it to develop to fruition before ending it. Although winning would be nice too

It's my understanding that a large portion of the DM team believe in the WYSIWYG policy. I think that rubs onto the player base.


Some hin are jaded. It gets equally boring to have to repeat the same thing over a thousand times because people don't want acknowledge the rules, whic are written in common by the way, and try to be snark about it.

It's like: "Oh someone here to interrupt RP again."
"Let's just dispatch him and be done with it."

I don't play militia btw, nor do I ever tell people to put their weapons away. But I can understand how some of the hin players feel.

_________________

Prescia the Pristine Voice

As much as I enjoy saying that Torin's helm is a headband/circlet I also understand that the game's mechanics and scripted are written with the fact that "you are wearing a full face helmet" in mind, and that I need to abide by that as far as these things go.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Do you believe being jaded entitles you to be an ass-hat to other players?

I sure don't.


How many hin in Bendir Dale have all the Cordorian Law tablets memorized?


Have I had to run Hin out of Cordor before for breaking rules with my Cordorian Guard PC?

Sure have. Did I ever get terse with the players I run out? Nope. Never no matter how many players I've had to deal with.


Have I ever gotten frustrated with the behavior of other players as a guard PC?

Yep. Part of the job, you deal with it. If the player behavior gets out of hand server rule wise, I screenie it and I get a DM.


To me, being an official militiaman/guardsman is something that should require some level of decent level of OOC responsibility attached to it. It's not an easy, or nice job.


I would offer some advice if people really are -that- jaded for those reasons:

1. Move the hin RP somewhere else in the Dale, like in the inn.

2. Try to be understanding of the fellow player that breaks the 'law', maybe they're new or didn't see the sign, or don't speak english well or just not paying attention.

3. If someone is feeling -so- jaded that they feel their OOC ability to behave respectfully to other players is compromised they -should- take a break from it, ask for a 'vacation' from duty IC.

_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

You know, along with the present two-liners that guard NPCs sometimes speak when you pass by, you could also do a check to see if a player has a weapon equipped, and if so have the NPC guard tell them to put it in its bloody sheath, NOW!

Of course, players could ignore these scripted responses, but then again it might bug them just enough to comply.

Dale NPC's guards/gates aren't scripted.

_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

Btw, chewvudan, if you don't receive a response via PMs from me, the chances are I never got your PM to begin with. My box is bugged for god knows what reason, that's why I got that little "Please don't send me PMs" in my siggy line, too. (it seems I only get PMs if I am logged in to the forums while someone sends me one)

It's all dealt with IC of course. No need to cry to DMs over local law enforcement.

The Dale is a militant town. It's been that way for as long I've played here. If you can't handle PvP, don't piss off the hin by doing stupid things like pissing in the well or defacing Yondalla in plain sight.

Wanna be snark in our front yard? Prepare to get stabbed in the nuts.

Madness? THIS IS BENDIR!

_________________

Prescia the Pristine Voice

I will keep that in mind, thanks

Am I not taking this seriously?
Being a neutral hin player, I can empathise with both sides of the fence, and then some.

But you know what the problem really is?
It's people being bastards OOC while thinly veiling it behind IC actions.
"Oh, it's perfectly IC. My character is like that."
And this happens server wide, not just Bendir. *shrugs*

_________________

Prescia the Pristine Voice

Who are you to say that it isn't just their character though?

How can you look into their heart of hearts and say that?

That judgementalism just seems abhorrent to me.

It isn't my place to judge anyone else's intent. That's the DM's job when rules are violated.

I've met/known plenty of people who simply were trying to do their best RPing what -they- thought was the proper behaviour of those types of creatures. I treated the player with curteousy, and they apologized for the behavior of their character, if it caused me OOC issue, even if their character continued acting in it's role.

I do not see a reason to be uncivil with another player, ever. Even if they're being insulting and uncivil to you in return.

There's been times where I've had people do things that violate the rules, I ask them calmly if they know the rules.

Some people don't react well to confrontation, you have to keep that in mind as well. Some natural impulses are 'Fight or flight'.. as it were.

Even if say, hypothetically if 90% of people you encounter are douchebags, it doesn't give you a right to treat the other 10% that aren't that way.

_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

People form opinions of others all the time. You can pretend to be a saint if you like, but you can't run away from human nature.

That said, by my standards, Amia is a very civil society. I have never once run into any player I would classify as a douchebag.

_________________

Prescia the Pristine Voice

I have. Players can be wicked cruel and giant arsehats, especially if they don't get their way.

_________________
Logins: Ramika, Li'lMikachu

I agree with Ramika. Sometimes people can be calm, reasonable and cool about it but there are a lot of times where.. ooh boy. *mutters*

I'm not a saint. The difference is I edit my feelings from my actions and behavior towards others.

_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

You make an awesome contribution to the server.

Would it be that hard for you to ignore Joe Shmoe who doesn't understand, or wants to understand, that there's a law in the city which demands no unsheathed weapons?

This also shows that the law itself serves an ill purpose.

It generates more frustration than IC enjoyment, for both the enforcer and the victim.

Specially since everyone knows that sheathing your weapons means jack shit. I could have it pulled out instantenously should the shit hit the fan... as Iron already pointed out.

_________________
Darthion Illys

Join the Banites!

There's -nothing- fair about getting killed over having your weapon unsheathed. Specially since you were just fighting a hoard of orcs/mylocks trying to get to Bendir.

Do you kill someone for holding a knife, IRL?

Not really.

Unless the person is threatening or flat out hostile, there's no need to kill it.

It just SCREAMS PvP-hungry OOC asshatery. And I smack down on this hard as hell within the Banites, due to the amount of PvP we are indirectly forced into it.

But I can see that Bendir Dale has been a lot more lenient.

And that disappoints me greatly. Even more so when there are people who actually believe they are righteous in defending it.

_________________
Darthion Illys

Join the Banites!

I remember hearing one of my father's friends...telling a story, he was a retired chief of police about when he was a detective.. and had an overzealous rookie, went something like this:

_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.