AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Mr. Hackums wrote:

But I believe this thread wasn't designed to talk about the power level of discern location, instead to describe what the spell is. People are allowed to deny its use, and they don't need to give any reason why. So if you believe its overpowered, reject it. And no one should be concerned.

Succinctly put, Hackums. Thank you!

(Interesting about the Lesser Mind Blank versus Discern Location, though. Sounds like Shala will be stepping up her game to buy Mind Blank scrolls then, which means more monster killing to afford her habit. Awww yiss, sweet vindication and justification of mass murder. :twisted:

)

I still wanna know how my rogue can use PnP spells. UMD should cover it, but I need a scroll to read.

I've always been told to contact a DM beforehand regarding any PnP spells on wands or scrolls for UMD users. Be prepared to cite where you theoretically purchased them from or who scribed them for you, and to have the required materials (blank wand or scroll) on hand.

Yeah. You'll need DM approval before PnP stuff gets put onto items that can be used by anyone. This basically just prevents Joe Schmoe from casting Miracles, and the like.

Don't you need DM approval to use things like miracle anyways?

Last edited by bidocks on Thu, Apr 25 2013, 16:37 PM, edited 1 time in total.

I have held off responding any further until more people spoke out. It seems a few things have become evident to me about this. There are many assumptions being made:

1) by allowing this, it is assumed the player using the ability knows how that ability would work in Amia
2) the player is being completely honest
3) wizards need even more spells than what NWN provides
4) the DM team won't disagree with the use of said ability
5) everyone should and is encouraged to begin adding rules and abilites from the several (sometimes conflicting) versions of d&d into a game that was not made to handle this

I have already seen in this thread information that was assumed to be accurate, but proven not so. How can we expect dozens of players to all follow the same rules when NWN doesn't always follow D&D and Amia has their own rules as well? To me, if a player can simply dismiss it, making the ability usable here but not there, is there enough positive from said usage to overcome the inconsistency that will ensue simply becase the system isn't prepared for this?

You're sounding a bit like you're anticipating new ill effects from the implementation of some new policy under consideration. The PnP consent rule has been in place at least since I started playing here in 2010, and I've never really noticed any terrible fallout from it. I think we'll be able to handle the inconsistency just fine, because we've been handling it just fine for years now.

Well, yes, I know it's been in place for some time, however, you have encouraged publicly the playerbase to use these things. This will create a new influx of people using PNP abilities, and I believe, causing more confusion and potential issues.

All this said and aside, if it's a pretty mundane spell or ability, I'll possibly ok it to be used, however, there are some pretty serious spells in D&D, and has been brought up before, there is no way to verify actual memorization of some obscure spell or even the level necessary to do so, so I would probably personally say, "no" if someone used anything that sounds too powerful. I think mages are powerful enough already, but that is my opinion and has no bearing on this conversation really.

In regards to the edition thing, NWN came out with 3.0 and is based on the nascent 3.0 rules. I believe the position has generally been stated (I know at least by Tormak, when he was a DM) is that Amia uses bits of 3.0 and 3.5. We don't use 2nd Edition or 4th Edition here, though, so it's really not too much of an issue in regards to version conflicts in that capacity.

If non-casters need a DM involved, I don't see why casters should not. And while I completely understand the reasoning, it's inconsistent and unfair to do it otherwise. If the spells and abilities cannot be put onto scrolls, wands, and potions then casters should not have unlimited access either.

Furthermore, A DM should be involved exactly for the situation this thread turned into (the lesser mindblank vs discern location issue). Even if the caster thinks they understand and explains a PnP ability, they easily may not understand how it should be handled in NWN.

Then there is the source to consider. Without a third party referee it would be extremely easy for someone, purposefully or simply by accident, to pull their PnP ability from a different version of the game then we are playing, or even homebrew stuff.

All things considered I am even less inclined to say anything other then 'no' towards PnP ability uses in game after this thread. It seems simply far too stacked towards casters and inconsistency.

I've seen quite a few PnP spells added to the game, with scrolls and all, via the PRC and such. Perhaps at least some of them should be considered for inclusion in the next hak update, making this entire discussion moot?

You guys are making way too big a deal about this. I've seen PnP stuff used in game dozens of times, and the total number of times it's been at all controversial is precisely zero. If someone objects or thinks they're getting a raw deal, they simply say "no thanks," and the RP goes on unscathed. All these convoluted snags and blowups and arguments... they simply don't happen, in my observation. At the risk of sounding a bit accusatory (which I don't intend) most of this discussion just sounds like empty handwringing to me, a bunch of fretting over dire theoretical consequences which, if they were going to negatively affect the game, would have done so years ago. Which hasn't happened.

Liz wrote:

You guys are making way too big a deal about this.

I wasn't going to be succint - when am I? - but you summed up everything I wanted to say.

I don't want to speak for others, but I'm not worked up or bothered. It was suggested that people use PnP abilities more, counter points were made, and life goes on. It's just discussion. In fact even the people saying they will not agree to some PnP abilities have mostly said they actually would in some circumstances.

And these 'convoluted snags and blowups and arguments' DO happen. They happened even right here, with some people thinking there were counters available they were incorrect. How is pointing out, in a thread specifically encouraging them, that there are obvious snags in the currently accepted practice making too big a deal of it?

I meant, those arguments don't happen in game, where they would be counterproductive to fun RP. A discussion here on the forums is a different thing. A better thing, even, since that's what the forums are *for*.

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