You have to realize, Mushidoz, that your interpretation of quality of RP is ultimately your own. As is mine, too. So when you say things like, "Quality RP that goes unnoticed", I can first say yes-- not all quality Rp will get rewarded, as we cannot be everywhere at the same time. But I must also say that your interpretation of quality RP is not -objectively- quality.

And here's the problem with this statement, not receiving DCs _is_ a punishment because the staff didn't do the wise thing and limit DC use to purely cosmetic character changes or harmless options, but have granted players with a lot of DCs with abilities and equipment that goes quite a bit beyond the scope of what is available to all equally which grant notable _mechanical advantages._ A simple perusal of the request forum will net you items granted above and beyond any epic loot a boss could drop, spells more useful than base, monkey grip, etc and being this is a competitive game not having the opportunities afforded others to actually earn such things puts you behind the curve. If your character's story ends up pitting you against a guy who has had the opportunities to score many DCs and you say live in Australia and almost never see a DM online, odds are great that the character you are up against is wielding a weapon better than yours, has more AC, and is likely to throw some effect at you you'll never match because you can't afford to compete. Not because your RP stinks, but simply because he plays in American primetime and you do not. So yes, in a sense you are punished.

Not to mention there seems to be little consistency between how DCs are rewarded. Some DMs seem impossible to impress while others will coin you just for showing up to an event it seems. I suspect from some of my interactions that certain ones have a bias that they won't coin if it's obvious you build can well or are wearing nice gear, regardless of what you're RP is and how well you portray it (as if you should be penalized for knowing how to game).

I've no interest in killing the DC system, it is one of the great things about Amia that makes it awesome. But it is flawed heavily in that it has notable issues with _opportunity_ simply because it is human-dependant and most folk aren't robots, DMs are volunteers - not paid employees working shifts, and granting DCs seems to be at the utter whim of the granter rather than following some standard guidelines for all. This ends up with a system where 2 people can play roughly the same amount of time per week, have eqitable RP quality, but player A has 30some DCs and is dripping with items above board and unique options while player B has 4 DCs and is still saving for his first request simply due to timezones.

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Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind
Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice

(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)

also @ Mushidoz - I once got a DC for basically having my character sat alone, eating some deepfried worm-thing with a specially long fingernail. That's what environmentally immersive is. It's tripping over a stone in a road, or whistling a tune as you walk. So many people seem to think RP is just drama-ing at each other.

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Jys'zyne Do'larn

Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?

Lost your credibility here with me. In no way should an RP PW ever be considered a competitive environment. There are elements of competition involved for many characters, but to put it into the competitive 'genre' indicates someone drastically missing the point of the game and an unhealthy love for PvP, in my eyes.

The inability to receive Dream Coins despite believing that one deserves it, is unfortunately, the nature of the beast as it were.

I have read, seen and participated on here and many servers that, only ones favoured by the staff receive the attention it requires to be rewarded with systems such as Amia's Dream Coins. This is because those favoured exemplify the currently accepted and encouraged style of Role Play on that server.

Role Play is defined by styles. The fact is, if you do not have the current style as endorsed by the staff, you are simply given less attention than those that do. This is not to say you are ignored; but your Role Play style is simply tolerated rather than appreciated. Unfortunately this is the culture of all servers of this kind. You can find these kind of parallels in other social entities. Whether it is your workplace, school, or even voluntary organizations. If you do not follow or emulate the group aesthetic than you are tolerated, nothing more.

This will never change on any server no matter how much effort, or how many posts any amount of people make. I find this kind of group mentality a fundamental behaviour, and it is best to accept it. After all, we all are guilty of this including me. You socialize with a specific group of friends because they hold similar values and ideals. Why would you seek out those of a contrary nature? Not only would there be conflict, but you would not enjoy your already limited time.

The only solutions as I see it is to adopt the particular Role Play style/culture of the server you currently play on. Follow the favoured Role Players, and as mentioned earlier in this thread, unashamedly copy and follow their every move. Ensure all of your Role Playing includes them in some way and you will gain all the attention, "Or Dream Coins as the case is", you have ever desired. However, if you feel that you want to stubbornly stick to your own style, then your only other option would be to seek out another server that enjoys your style of Role Play.

Automated dc hand out system plz.

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That's not how I interpreted his "environmentally immersive". On that I would say you got hyper lucky, OR you knew you were watched.

Here are other examples of what you suggested:

- Using the walk command when on my own with nobody watching, even though my character has monk speed and I want to get to a specific location to be able to interact with people

- Sitting on a bench on my own in Bendir and singing (yes, it happened)

- Finding myself a disguise to visit the underport, even though there are no drows online, because Saya is a fey and she doesn't want to get caught there / sold as an exotic... something

- Not going to a location after I read a big yellow shout that says something is happening there if it makes no sense for my character to be there / to go there atm (yes, that falls under the same category)


The one thing I will get from this thread is the dms want us / expect us to abuse of that DC wand and are completely fine with it. I didn't want to use it because it felt to me like it was some sort of "begging for DC" tool. To counter that I often told dms "that player really deserves DC for X" in pm, but then I felt as cheap when I started noticing I was given DCs as well, so I kinda stopped all-together because I don't want to be seen as "that guy who asks dms to give dcs so that he gets one himself too" and while I was gaining DCs, it didn't feel as authentic. Guess I'm just too honest, but now that I know dms want us to abuse of the wand and are fine with it AND expect us to do it, then I won't feel bad.


@Hackums: The good majority of what you pointed out as "amazing RP" is often what I consider freaking boring and uninspired RP. That is indeed my personal taste, and you can love that "follow the book" RP if you want, all fine. I am however not a dm, and if I were in such a position, I would still try to recognize that such RP that I find boring can be executed well, and therefore worthy of a DC.

No matter how I look at it, that "silly lighthearted RP" that you put alongside "godmodding" (as if it was some sort of poor/negative kind of RP and not worthy of praise) is very legit kind of RP, and can be and often is -top- quality and, in my book, more interesting than learning a d&d dogma book and let the character be entirely dependant on it.

If you decide to ditch it at the expense of the allstars in factions doing political/religious things, saying that "other dms will deal with that side of RP I don't want to deal with", then you have to come to the conclusion that the other dms aren't doing it either, because several people I hang around with, whom are amazing roleplayers but often on the lightside of things, are not receiving DCs while others get more in 2 months than I ever had total since I started here. What that should tell you (and the staff) is that perhaps you shouldn't shovel that "another dm will deal with it", and instead make sure there are actually dms taking care of that, in all timezones.

I am in the opinion that there once were dms in charge of that back then (I remember having something like 1 DC from about every dm and 20 or so from Manarethan at some point), but the constatation is that -RIGHT NOW- for at least a minimum of 2 months (judging by my experience, could be I wasn't lucky), there has been no dm in the daytime EST time that have been paying attention at those who are "lighthearted" and unaffiliated with big factions.

And -that- is an objective observation and the logical suggestion I can make is "could the staff please decide on some people that can see the value and beauty in that "lighthearted" and "unaffiliated" RP to be put in charge to walk around, watch such RP and reward when good RP is indeed had outside of the big factions?" People that would not be the 4th dm in a big event in Cordor.. or 4th dm on Caraigh when there are a maximum of 8 people logged on B <.<

I mean, if not everyone is completely impartial and sees good RP where there is good RP because they have personal tastes that hinder their judgment, can the "staff" as a whole at least cover everything in a fair fashion? If there are 10 DMs and 8 of them are horny about Jesus and Obama, I think it's a bit unfair for the big majority of non-religious/non-political characters that rely on those 2 other dms to get an extra candy/pat on the back, especially if they don't see them in their timezone or if one of them is sick or busy IRL, while 8 DMs are in charge of cookie-feeding the big faction people (I am only providing AN IMAGE, please do not take everything at face value ^^)

*PS: There is no anger and no ill thought involved with this reply or the previous ones I wrote!

*PS2: I am not playing on Amia for the DCs, or the promise that I will get some in the future. I get entertainment from "roleplaying", creating a believable character and see her evolve, and interact with other players. A candy thrown from time to time can however be very nice, especially when they end up being needed to progress a lvl 30 character and provide reasons/motivations for further / different interactions with other people.

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Account Name: Karnak_71
Character Name: Hanamori Saya
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68657&p=1134526#p1134526

I think everyone should just be roleplaying most if not all the time anyway, and be less concerned about moments they feel could have used a DC. Of course, those moments happen, and the DC wand is there to attempt it if you don't feel weird, apprehensive, or otherwise socially awkward about the use of a tool for its designated purpose.

I keep hearing about how people dislike the wand or are afraid of it but want their RP to be seen by DMs. That's what the wand does. Perhaps if it was renamed "Invitation to watch ongoing roleplay wand" there would be less strange connotations attached to it.

Mushidoz, you're putting words in my mouth again.

If you are remaining in character these type of things are expected, not extraordinary. DC's aren't and should not be given out because you could have gone OOC but didn't.




The wand serves as a tool to direct us to where things are happening so that we can come observe them, nothing more, using it is hardly a form of abuse, and I think I can safely say no one on the team views it that way.




Hackums was very clear that he was merely stating what his personal preferences are, the DM team is not a hive mind. Personally I love a good light hearted session and do reward such things. With me, I like to see what makes a character tick, what their thought processes are, what motivates them, to get inside their heads and see from their perspective. When I see characters showing through strongly, that's when I tend to give out DC's regardless of the subject matter they might be discussing.



This is your opinion and therefore by definition -subjective-. I will make it clear however, because this point has come up before. The team is not a resource to be deployed equally in strategic zones or what have you. Handling the shear number of players involved with larger events can be an absolute stress filled nightmare, and often the more DM's around to lend a hand, the smoother the event can be run, and the players get a better experience that way because a larger proportion can get the DM attention they need -at that moment- to influence the outcome of an event.



As stated before, Hackums saying he personally doesn't favor the light hearted in no way means that none of us do, the team is an amalgamation of various styles and standards. That's a positive thing, because even if one of us doesn't like something out of personal taste, another may well have a different opinion. We have a more varied palate that way and can appeal to the interests of a broader playerbase.

DCs are stupid anyway, I mean we all like to say that "they are rewards for quality roleplay" but really that isn't as true so much as "they are a thing you might get if a particular DM is watching you at some random time and they happen to at that point in time like your RP more than average and feels like tossing you one."

Further is the issue that some DMs like giving out more, others like giving out less, add in that many DMs spend far more time around certain groups of players than others and you can get the issue of doing great RP somewhere or at sometime or of a certain type of RP and not get any DCs but then you can be off doing something else that is hardly your best RPing and suddenly DC city.

Is it a fair system? No, not really, I mean certainly some players will consistently get more DCs even if they don't necessarily deserve them and other players will consistently miss out even when they do deserve them . Its a mediocre system that only really exists because the alternative methods really aren't any better.

But like I said, try not to worry about it; DCs are stupid anyway.

Personally I prefer to see them as a carrot I can give out on an individual basis. Something to let the player know "good job with that, you're on the right track" I think the inclination to hand out mass DC's during events is primarily what is causing the issues. When running an event it's impossible to see every conversation or know what every player was doing while it was going on, so it's often easier just to hit everyone and call it a day. Personally I try not to do it that way and stick to a more individual basis, but again we all have our own standards and preferances when handing them out.

And importantly, just because I say that I favor one style over the other, doesn't mean that I can't appreciate other styles as well. I've awarded DC's to lighthearted roleplay. I've partaken in lighthearted roleplay. It doesn't excite me as much as a good conniving plot, but that's not a bad thing. I shouldn't be made to be a bad guy because I enjoy a certain type of roleplay. I certainly have been respectful, polite, and welcoming to those who do enjoy that style of lighter roleplay.

Here's the thing, Mushidoz. This kind of arguing you provide has become a theme from you, and not a positive one. This goes for all players as an example, and I'm frankly surprised I have to be saying this:

If you feel you have to say, "I swear, I'm not being offensive" at the end of your argument, you should probably look back at what you're saying, and adjust it accordingly. Saying "No offense" after insulting someone doesn't actually remove the fact that it was insulting.

- Addressing the DM team as "staff".
- Claiming that players and DM's are encouraging abuse.
- Claiming that players who take part in the political styled roleplay I mentioned are playing by the book, freaking boring and uninspiring roleplay.
- horny about Jesus and Obama., cookie-feeding the big faction people. Just because you say "no offense" at the end, doesn't make it not offensive. Find other words to use.
- Grossly generalizing evil Rp as folks wearing dark hoodies.


You'll note that in my previous posts, I never, ever made these kind of assertions about my fellow players who take part in roleplay that I don't enjoy as much as the other. I continue to respect their opinions, and I continue to reward them for positive Rp. I can politely say that its not my cup of tea without insulting them, and I will remain rewarding them for positive RP even if I am not as enthused about their RP as I am in other sessions with other styles.

No DM or player has ever insinuated that simply using the DC wand is abusing its mechanic, or using it on another to draw a DM to a roleplay session. We're not encouraging abuse. Just because you see it as abuse, doesn't mean it is. Just because you see things as cheating, doesn't mean they are. We've been through this before, Mushidoz. The language used needs to change.

I always hope that is how most DMs like to use DCs ego, and its good that you do. Although even then no one is just a robotic DM, getting DCs comes down to what is really a LOT of variable factors that vary immensely between DMs and even for the same DM one day to another. I personally don't think I've ever made a DC request though so I personally don't think they matter much.

Although I must say I DO have a strong objection to something like a special character request requiring DCs EVER, as far as I am concerned things like that should be reliant on you knowing and being able to properly play the character and that character adding enough to the server and RP to be worth approving, it should NOT be reliant on those things and also having DCs.

I agree with that, Equalizer.

Tangible things a character can work towards, or achieve to customize their RP, should be things DC's should be used for.

Something that requires a specific knowledge should fall into a different grouping, where the determinant of the request is how well the player knows the race.

Its a thing that is easy to forget as a player if you see others getting a ton of DCs if you aren't getting any, but it isn't a reflection on you as a player or your RP or saying that others have better RolePlaying abilities, they are just a thing that small part of a very large and complex bunch of interactions.

And as long as DCs remain simply a thing to use for more or less just "neat" things like customized items (that aren't really any better than you can get without) or reskins, placables, etc. Then DCs are not something that will limit what you can do*, the only thing that really does that is your own willingness to work for it.


*Not even beating up AO... although that would need a REALLYREALLYREALLY good request (insanely good).

- Yes, the staff. That's the right word to be used, and will always be on all servers too. With "staff" you get mappers, dms, testers, people that do events, scriptors, etc. There is no insult whatsoever in there, no disrespect either, that is the term used on all and every servers I have played of any internet game.

- "Abusing that wand" AKA use it at every occasion and not just for exceptional omg once in a lifetime occurance. There is no invitation to cheat or abuse, nor am I saying this is wrong to use it.

- Yes, that's MY personal view on political and religious RP. You have yours on lighthearted RP that YOU put alongside "godmodding" and "Mary Sues", both signs of BAD rp in MY book, so why am I not allowed to say that I find such RP absolutely boring and uninspiring?

- "horny about Jesus and Obama" = "excited about religious and politic RP".
"Cookie feeding the big faction people" = "I called them "big faction people", everyone else call them the allstars. I called the DC "cookies". How is that insulting? These big factions have constant dm attention and get about 5 times more DC than other people. It's a fact, why are you angry at that? I don't get it"

- That's what I see of evil people. I can tell just by looking who is evil just from them wearing black clothes and a hood. Whether they do amazing things when they end up a secret meeting of other bad people, I do not see, what I see is that if I were a zealot justice superhero with more than 10 int I would be able to whack 80% of the evil people before they do anything wrong just by looking at them for 2 minutes. As I said too, there are AMAZING evil roleplayers out there too!

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With that said Hackums, that's like 4-5 times you take what I write in a post and interpret it completely off and insinuate things I am not saying, unable to read the message because you stick on the words used and you give it different meanings and interpretations, despite me making sure to add obvious lines to make sure that nobody misinterpret them wrong.

I should just start ignoring what you write, even when I want to say something to it, and you should do the same, because you get offended for things I don't say and misread or misinterpret it. Both happy, problem solved.

PS: That reply was off-topic, and should have been a private message, but since I am not sure you will interpret it right, I rather this stays public. I have no ill intentions, no animosity, no anger, no nothing, and I sure hope that's also your case.

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Account Name: Karnak_71
Character Name: Hanamori Saya
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68657&p=1134526#p1134526

Wow, really? _That_ is all you've heard in my post? Just ignore everything posted pointing out obvious flaws in the system and go with "he said competition, he means killing everbuddy!!! KEKEKE!"

I've never initiated or sought PvP in all my time here in Amia and am the first person who will advocate PvP should always remain fairly meaningless in NWN, a game that even with all Amia's balance enhancements, is still always going to remain unbalanced simply due to multiclassing (which will always make it impossible to balance properly). What you replied with just says you know pretty much nothing about me at all, but says quite a bit about you and your biases. Oddly enough, there is absolutely nothing wrong with PvP and it has a healthy place in the game and has part of RP. Something for you to think about.

But anyone would be blind to say any roleplaying game with other players isn't competitive. That's basically saying you are playing a game with zero conflict whatsoever. If your character doesn't want to achieve anything, you might as well log off. Trying to achieve things will most likely put you at odds with those who oppose those things. People with advantages have advantages, and there's nothing wrong with _earning_ things. There's plenty wrong with not being given the same opportunities as others to earn them, especially if there is the likelihood of having them used against you.

Personally, I don't really care to see automation save as an extreme last resort. Perhaps a much better solution is available. In for-profit gaming, the situation is easily solved. If your game needs admins, you simply cut a check and hire more. Obviously Amia can't afford to do this, but what it could do is even easier and costs nothing. DMing is volunteer work that easily burns out people quickly. After all, while DMing, you're largely not benefitting from it, but more or less a bystander facilitating storytelling or server maintenance, making things run smoothly for nothing. There's not enough DMs to adequately cover the server playerbase since most people don't know how to DM and it takes a special kind of person to selflessly do nothing for any meaningful amount of time when they could be doing something personally enriching otherwise.

So incentivize DMing. Basically offer folks a reason to apply and be a DM. Give them a reason to want to login their DM and spend time DMing. Create a standardized system where DM activity can earn the doer tokens, doing something minor earns the DM 1 token (helping a newbie, possessing a NPC to facilitate RP), doing something median 2 tokens (running a minor event that could be ended in a day or 2, helping another DM run their own major event), and doing something major earns them 5 tokens (like building an entire area or running a large, ongoing event that takes days to complete). Note, handing out dream coins should never earn these DMing tokens as that would create a ridiculous amount of DC inflation.

DMs could use these tokens in proxy to advance their mortal characters to offset the fact that time spent DMing is basically time spent not advancing their own interests as a player. They could be spent much the same ways as dream coins: increasing character levels, money, exchanged for epic loot, or for dream coins themselves. This alone would probably gain the server more than enough DM applicants to cover the playerbase as well as spur the current DMs to be more active since time spent DMing is now enriching to them personally.

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Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind
Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice

(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)

I am of a similar mind to TGE, which is part of why as a DM I would never reveal my criteria for giving DCs.

Oracle, please, tell me how I may please the Gods and thereby lift the curse from my village? Also:


DMs are both volunteers AND players, and cannot even be wanded. I'm not going to address everything you've said, nor do I disagree with every single word; however, you come off as hostile and judgmental with these types of posts. I cannot say what you are like outside of them, but try and understand that others are reacting in such a way for good reason and are taking time out of their ______ to address the things you have said point by point. They're not saints, nor are they employees-- they choose to do this for the betterment of the server, and even if you disagree with them the disrespect is nauseating. I wouldn't do such to any of our base outside of a joke like that of which I have posted above.

Edit: Thanks to Cory ... I do not mean to say that staff is a disrespectful word, but in context it is appropriate to differentiate just what a DM does here and brings to the table.

Jumping in real quick for this but not to derail the real topic but calling the DMs staff is not negative, the DMs themselves use the term staff in regards to themselves the personnel links to a thread called "Amia DM Staff and Contact Information" and uses the term staff when speaking about the group of DMs as a whole.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

*Facepalm*

Noooo, guys. Everyone calls the DM team staff. I call the DM team staff.

Its that she specifically used quotation marks around the word staff. Like, "maybe if the "staff" was this and this..", after having negatively portrayed them just before.

Its like, if I was I was talking about Cory, and said he was a "player". Or, "Yeah, international studies is a 'major'." It implies the idea that there is question behind the validity of the word in quotation marks. The above would be insulting to Cory's player, just as the usage of quotation marks in the message above was what I was picking up on.

I just call the DMs the 'DM Team' or 'the team' :>

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Yes, context. Some of these messages are just so laden with negative connotations it's sickening, and I'm not even on the receiving end of any of them.

But why do people have to get sensible and take it personal -every- single time this kind of thread happen? Can you not discuss -seriously- and with facts and solutions instead of opinions and insults? It'd make for a great change. We don't need complainers, but contructive commenters.

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login:mirvala
Em'rae d'Ussen d'Vhid
No mercy for the kivvil
aka AgentOfLyumis

I wish I had something more constructive.

*Drop the Mic*

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

I feel like this is getting a bit off topic, so I will share my experiences with DCs.

I have leveled a character, 1-30, and only gotten 1 DC for my time here on Amia, although I would enjoy a few for a cool little trinket. I see that my choice of not being in a popular, active, faction is hurting me DC wise.

Do I RP? Of course. Is my RP outstanding or worth rewarding? Well... That is for others to decide. The fact of the matter is, the reason DCs are fairly 'unfair' in some people's eyes, is if you are a well established character, that gets into a lot of events, and has a lot of DMs watching you, you will inevitably get DCs. Now, for Joe-shmoe who hangs out in Bendir dale talking to people... Not so much. Do each have an important roll in the servers 'health'? Of course. In order for a world to feel alive, you need all sorts of characters.

As a newer player, I do find it hard to get involved in the 'In-Crowd' as people would see it. People have their established groups, and for what ever reason (OOC or ICly) fairly closed off to newer people. Not to mention, a lot of the factions are quite dead, and only log on for 'events' and such. This further hurts the crowd not involved, as they have no way to incorporate themselves in these groups that seem to get attention. Since I have been in Amia I have ONE EVENT and that is because I luckily got invited to it, and was lucky in my position and time of log in. Did I see a DC for it? Nay, but it was fun to be in an event for once.

EDIT: In some cases, I feel like having some of those 'Custom' widgets actually improves not only the players experience, but the people experiencing them as well. When you encounter something unique, and interesting, I feel all partys enjoy it.

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Silith Rithix- Shifting Coward
Hesk Suhet- Lizardfolk, Red Tribe Shaman

King, in response (and back on topic) I played here for over for a year (I have had multiple accounts/forum accounts) without seeing anything regarding DCs, through multiple 30's and half-finished characters. That said, I recently returned and tried something out of my comfort zone, and I have since greatly enjoyed it and gotten the only DCs I have EVER gotten, despite my Wife having gotten plenty during her prior playtime.

Do I think it has anything to do with roleplay quality on my part? Not really, but circumstances are just that. I happened across some DCs and participated in a few events as well, started using the wand on folk more... it's slow but it all comes together. It may be good to sit and think on why DMs don't see your roleplay.

That's not to say that others don't both enjoy and benefit from your roleplay, just that you can't get a DC at all if a DM is not around!

Ok, as everyone knows I am new here and I will openly admit that. I also try to stay on every one's good side because from the first time I logged in to this server, I felt welcomed and like people wanted me to stick around. The game was a blast. I did not really understand the DC thing until I read this thread and did some searches on the forums for what they are for etc. Now that my research is done here is my take and please feel free to disagree or ignore it completely:

I never really thought I would enjoy RPing. It seemed silly to me, but when I gave it a shot there is something inherently fun about it. I will never make any claims as to whether I am good, terrible, or amazing, or anything in between because I don't try to be any of those things. When I RP I look at it like this: If my character were a real person... with real thoughts, emotions, ideas, dreams, goals, fears, how would she react to this world. I play her in a way that is not designed to be competitive at all. I play her to be a character in the world and thereby make the world itself a little more diverse. I don't care about winning or losing or even if I die and lose XP and gold. I could log in and receive 1000 DC's and I really honestly have no idea what I would do with them. I like it here because we are a community and in all communities you have people who stand out and are in the spot light... but you also have people who avoid it like the plague. Then there is the group that wants the spot light but may not know how to get it. Then there are those who couldn't care less either way.

I am not trying to lump people into groups or express favoritism either way. Amia from what I understand is an RP world. We all log into play a role whether it is someone high and important, or just a simple character that likes to harvest apples and hear stories from other adventurers. I guess what I am trying to say is, I come here to have fun and I enjoy the game for it is. A community of players who like to tell stories with each other. That said, I don't think anyone should feel guilty about wanding someone they enjoy RPing with just because they get a DC too. I can understand why someone feels it is like begging but it is really not. Look at it from the DM's point of view. They were out and about, you wanded person A to bring to their attention the RP that was going on. The DM enjoyed it but you were also a part of it so they wanted to reward you too.

I guess what I am getting at is it is completely normal to have negative thoughts associated with things, such as using the DC wand to recommend someone for a DC, or when there is a real or perceived (doesn't matter which) slight or bias. That is one hundred percent human nature, but you have to remember to stay positive. As has been pointed out being a DM isn't easy by a long shot. The people are volunteers, and while they are sort of the authority here they are also human beings behind the computer. I know they enjoy it when we are having fun as players because they work hard to do stuff for us. I love this community and am proud to be a part of it but it feels like people are a little tender about this topic and I hope that we can all take a moment and analyze the issue of a portion of the community feeling left out, and focus on solutions to help each other get better results.

On a completely unrelated note: After witnessing what the DM's do and go through, I'll make it public right now: I would eventually like to be considered for a DM position. The only reason I have not applied or asked is because I am extremely new to the community and game. I am currently trying to make sense of the DM client etc. And because I do not know if my view of what I want to be as part of the DM team is something they or the community would even want. I used to play a Goddess on a MUD a long time ago, after being a Guide there (which is sort of like a newbie DM, you play as one of the helpers and sit in the newbie zone and help them with questions etc). When you ascend to Godhood in the MUD you had to give up your "mortal" life, which just basically means you were no longer a PC any more. Before you even got there they had a process where you studied under a current God/dess to learn how to script, create, and do the things required. I don't have fun being a complete awesomesauce badass that everyone looks at and goes man I wish I could be her. I have fun knowing that I am contributing and giving back to a community that not only welcomed me with open arms but also helped me and never asked for anything in return except for me to have fun. So if it is at all possible to be a DM who doesn't play PC side, and who can just focus on running smaller events, popping on late night US when the other side of the world people are around come on, while also being around during the day too, I'd like to try to work toward that goal. I would enjoy giving back to you guys.

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Characters:

Emily Kenson
Katia

What I am actually finding funny... is that this post was about the inconsistency, and perceived favoritism id DC relegation's toward certain groups... and some pretentious douchebombs turned and made it about whining over not getting DC's.

For the record... I am not caring about the DC's myself. But Myself, and others, have made mention of it several times about certain groups of people getting the little green circles under them for "fun and games" RP, while others who are involved in RP the hackums mentioned get shit. Everyone has their own style of RP, and one persons RP should not limit them in the eyes of a DM. It should not be left for a DM to decide what is suitable RP like hackums mention really... because he may not like someones RP... but it is their RP. It should be based on the level of immersion to the character and the RP, not the choice of an unseen overlord or something like that.

Estaru and a few others insinuated that perhaps getting a new level of RP achieved might be the trick. I say why the hell should I or anyone change our RP and character make up to prove a damn thing?

I am not going to apologize for NOT having my nose so far up a DM's ass that I can smell their home cooking from three days ago, like others who have posted in this thread. My RP is my RP, and I and others should not be overlooked because someone else with a difference of opinion on what good RP is finds my RP unsuitable. It should be more balanced.

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Years of Love are forgotten in the hatred of a minute - Edgar Allen Poe

No comment on the bit before this but as for these two points I would quite agree that neither you nor anyone else should be overlooked simply for differing ideas, further more I think that balance is generally the hope. The issue is that DCs are a thing based more or less solely on the discretion of each DM, however if it is ever the case that you or anyone else feels that they and other players like them are not being adequately represented on the DM team I would recommend... Recommending players to the DM team for consideration to be DMs, honestly we could ussually use a few more DMs and I always think discussion on things like that between players and DMs is invaluable.

Well... no system is perfect of course.

One problem lately was also that a few DM were either on a break due to private stuff or completely wrapped up in massive plots which need to be wrapped up.

Like... while I ususally spend several hours ever week not doing plots but instead handling DC requests which were approved and watching RP, I didn't get to it the last two weeks either as I had a few doc appointments and was busy at work and such.

So is this system perfect?

No of course it's not. No system is perfect. And even if we had the perfect DC system, what is it worth if it still takes people who script but might have a busy time in private life for a while and don't get to it or the DM who are to hand them out have it? So you have all your beloved DC and simply can't do anything with them anyways.

So no... there is no flawless system. And no "just hire more scripters" does not work either as we tried that for months and while a few people said "oh well I would if I could" that does not help things either if they can't and do not know how scripting works because noone has the time to teach them from zero to hero.

In the end (and you will hate me for saying this) while DC are grand an you can do awsome custom stuff with them if it gets approved, you should keep in mind that you do not 'need' them to have gear you can handle the server with or to have fun RP.

You can get tons of fancy stuff on Amia for free. We are also working on a more flexible gear. We have a crafting system, granted it is not perfect, but it allows you to be quite flexible with gear regardless. It also allows you to customize names for pure RP fluff and such too without any request or DC.

Shifter and Druids get a lot of extra shapes for RP for free. BG's get a lot of fluff for free. Monks get special techniques for free. SD get widgets and stuff for free. (mind if I say for free here some of this stuff still requires RP, I mean free as in no DC)

We have a really cool new summon variety (thanks to sune) without having to spend DC and some of the other summons and scuh which were not done yet are still worked over (thanks to Mosh).

We recently did lower the prices for DC for more RP focused items.

So you say back in the days DC dropped some more? Perhaps. Let me tell you thoug that back in THOSE days I paid 50 DC for my wings, 30 DC for my tail and 25 DC for a skin changer widget. I also paid 5 DC for a simple head change which is free now.

I dare say I did not get more out of those more DC back then. I also would argue they weren't that much more.

So yes... not a flawless system. But no matter how often you twist and turn it, you won't find one. The DC wand helps a lot if you want to draw some focus. I know it feels a bit odd at times but it really does help us.

Some days I log into the server... 50 people on. People spread out all over the server. So I start going through. So I find a group. I watch a while and prowl around because some people type slower, some stand further away and I need to check if they whisper. So then they either RP or not, it still takes some time to figure it out.

Then I move on... hunting group. They may RP or may not. Following a while. So by now 30 minutes have passed with me randomly checking for RP in this time your awsome RP on the other end of the server might alreadly be over.

Or I hop through the areas... and wellp... you have been RPing the last hour when I get to you... I did not see one of you posted a //5min afk, just before I jumped in. I see silence... wait a bit, more silence... pop out again.

90% I log onto the server I see no RP recomemndations so I need to fall back to the "hop around and be lucky" technique.

So really, believe me, it is NOT cheesy of you to recommend RP. It helps us to work faster and better in this somewhat not so perfect system and help us not miss out on great RP.

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If I was a DM and had to read posts like that about time they choose to spend on Amia to make the server more fun I'd be seriously disheartened. If I had to DM on a server with only people who express themselves like that I wouldn't touch the server with a ten foot pole.

Even if what you are saying makes some sense the way in which you bring it is utterly offensive and you dont catch flies with vinegar.

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Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

We need to remember that DCs are also a tool for DMs to direct the style and quality of RP on the server. The Amian ideology is that everyone can play the style they want, and should have maximum freedom to create their characters adn stories. But that does not mean DMs should not hold certain styles of RP above others, encourage and reward them more. Just because you think your style of RP is just as good, or better, than someone else's does not entitle you to rewards. It means that you're free to go about your business and try to impress others. Those whose RP is more in line with what the DMs envision as the direction of the server culture get carrots. It's a form of community planning, so there should always be a favoritism of style, if not of persons.

Not that this is the only or primary purpose of DCs. I think it's fine that people get some just to make them feel good and get nice stuffs. I would not be opposed to an automated script of DC/12 hours in game, or something, if it wasn't abusable by logging on and going AFK.

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Part of why I took a break from DMing was excessive vitriol in almost every discussion. Its arguments like these that quite frankly fuel that sentiment. Iron's got the right of it, but even as he said it, and even as we've said it, the staff is going to take huge amounts of flak for it.

I remember vividly when players were asking for improved server direction. Rewarding players who fit that server direction and encouraging others to find it as well? Player's shout favoritism (And some players even attack each other over this). Wanting transparency? Receive condemnation for sincerity. Wanting conflict? Complaining fiercely when its encouraged by fellow players. DM's volunteer their time to help the server? Treat them with miserable behavior, because they volunteered to get treated that way. Because its their job, responsibility. I could go on, and on, and on.

I remember when I was one of the most optimistic players. An excitable DM that fought for marginalized players all the time. There are players still here because I refused to give up on them. But every day its a struggle. I continue trying to return time and time again with a hopeful outlook, only to be reminded why I was jaded and bitter in the first place. I'm simply convinced that I can't make Amian's happy anymore.

But even now, I'm not saying these things to sink your hearts. Still, after all of the abuse, I'm hopeful that self-reflection is enough to at least change the tone of Amia. At least for a few days. If there's one true source of hope for me, its the new influx of players we're seeing. I receive PM's upon PM's from these new guys just brimming with happiness at the opportunity to play here.

Folks, Amia is an old and dying horse. Its something we cherish deeply because it gives us an experience like no other. Its something we've grown with. Its not perfect. But to stand behind it, whipping it, shouting at it, pulling it every in direction-- that horse is just going to get exhausted.

Just take some time and think about it. I challenge you each to step back and reflect on your negativity. I know I have to.

This isnt right. It just isn't.

You cant make all Amians happy but I know DM's brought a smile to my lips often here and I also know I wasn't the only one who enjoyed events like ShatterSpine (Or was it Spineshatter?) so much I stayed up three nights for it.

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Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

Trying to please everyone at the same time leads you to an early grave.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

Mhm. That's absolutely right.

If people play the game only to get DCs, and I do have a feeling that quite a bit of *local* posters do, then there's no solution whatsoever.

Hackums wrote it right. Not getting a DC is not a punishment. Anyone who thinks otherwise is out of reach.

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Daegan Van'Straaten - Duty to Helm is above all!

I still take my hat off to Spineshatter as one of the most immersive events I've been to, the DCs were 100% secondary to the actual enjoyment I got.

Hackums, listen to Silvarus. Having been a forum admin of an active community of 20,000+ people for a few years, it's a harsh lesson but it's true. People are going to view things differently from you and while it plain sucks, you should never suck the enjoyment dry from those who do appreciate what you do.

Do I think giving DCs subjectively is silly? Yes. Can I actually offer a better idea? No. Because as Amarice said, while it's flawed is probably the best system we can have right now. As she also said, DCs are generally much more common (as before my return last summer I had only amassed not nearly as many as I had from me returning until now) and DC prices are much much cheaper. People aren't going to be pleased until they can get the stuff for free and without subjectivity, which when this happens Amia will lose a lot of credibility and the issue will occur exactly the same where DMs will judge the mass of requests with the same subjective view they'd given DCs out in the first place.

Keep doing your own thing Hackums, while you will get some people simply moaning at their lack of DCs, you get people who feel awed for what you do. My first DC back in the day was met with such OOC enjoyment because I felt like I worked very hard to get one, and I still do for basically every DC I've gotten.

And you said one thing I really think people should keep in mind:

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Far too much focus is being put on the DM Team for quite an extensive time. We have an increase of characters taking up roles that require an enormous amount of DM interaction with specific NPCs. My gut feeling is that the amount of demand on the DMs has increased manifold over the past four years.

We seem to have a very noticable lack of player driven events. I remember that for many years we had players with cleric characters who regularly held ceremonies at their temples, wizards who held arcane lectures, bards and druids who hosted storytelling unions. Adventurers who organized regular tournaments. All player driven, with no DM oversight.

Kohlingen had a very uninvoled DM for a long time, and it was thriving with cleric and paladin roleplay. I am firmly convinced that a great deal of the stress on the DMs, and the stress on the players is a result that far fewer of the players actually try to provide those events. While other factors play a role, in my opinion this is the biggest problem on amia at the moment.

This also ties into the dream coin affair. I remember the most Dream Coins I got were on my character Julliette, who was very involed in hosting the Storytelling Union. DMs always tended to drop by, because 1) a lot of players at the same spot and 2) enjoyable roleplay without any stress factor.

Very much so. And I made a big mistake in not asking (demanding?) more help from the rest of the team.

Take heart, Sir Hax. The concern you have expressed used to bog me down a lot. They still do, at times, but I developed a method of handling it. When I read statements like this:



I think about it for a bit, consider the veracity of the statement, determine if there is something I need to address, and then, if the tone starts to get to me, I tell myself that the vast majority of the playerbase is reading that same paragraph and rolling their eyes at how over the top it is, and how they would have my back and say the same thing, and maybe tell that player off if they could do so without the thread resorting to a flame war or negative comments back and forth. LordSithaelon is unfortunately having to be the victim when I say this, and for that I apologize, as I don't intend to say that he deserves to be told off...just that telling myself so when the statement makes me feel crappy makes me feel better, no matter how delusional it may or may not be.

In getting back to being a player, I can say with some honesty it wouldn't be all that delusional, though.

I know it has been said many times before, but to reiterate:

DM wise, many of us have limited game time during the week. Like everyone else in the community, we have RL stuff to keep on top of as well. When we do log in, it is usually to run things or try to keep up with Rebuilds/Requests and maintain the setting. By virtue of everyone being so active on the forums, I take that as a good sign that our volunteered efforts for the community are doing more good than bad.

That said, some things slip by. We aren't always hopping everywhere, which is why we sometimes miss stellar RP. This is not your fault or a snub, just a simple fact. If you want us to know RP is happening, use the DC Wand. It greatly increases the chances of us noticing, watching, and dishing out DCs.

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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

*opens can of wiggling worms*

Why not let the players actually give out dream coins to other players? So instead of hoping getting noticed by the wand it actually rewards good rp on the spot.

Promotes interaction for sure, can it be abused? Yes of course it can.

Perhaps a weighted system could be used whereas a player given DC is actually .1 Dream Coins compared to 1 DC when hit by the DM Dream Coin Wand or however it is done.

Limit the wand so that one account can only zap a PC once.

There's already a log of who awards the dream coins so when player A submits a dream coin request a DM member will check the players DC log for abnormalities to look for things like multiple accounts at same IP address or same CDKey or something like that.

Keep it simple.

That .1 DC idea is not half bad. Being zapped 10 times roughly equals the rate of encountering a DM.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

The idea of DCs being handed out by players does not work for me. Period.

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Daegan Van'Straaten - Duty to Helm is above all!

I really think whats being overlooked here is that this doesn't seems as much a complaint about DCs themselves as it is a complaint about an issue of seemingly certain players or people who are doing certain types of RP getting more attention and rewards from DMs, which really shouldn't happen, even if you are "encouraging" certain types of RP (which I have a bit of an issue with if it is the encouraging a specific type of RP and not just good quality and setting fitting RP in general.) you should not be unfairly giving unfairly more or less attention to some players.
And if its and issue of "oh but I don't like to cover that area of the server RP" first of all: do it anyway, and secondly if you really have an issue that much with it then make sure they are being covered well by other DMs and if that isn't working then get more DMs.

I'm going to submit my request here that anyone with half a thought for doing it, please send up your offers to join the 'staff' and perhaps become a DC Fairy! There are many heavy things in the works and DMs have that stuff to worry about. I could go on about the good and bad in all of these responses and the OP but I won't. I will only say that we do lack enough handy staff to view the everyday goings of our mass of players. It would be nice to have someone or someones to do this.

I think the original point here was nothing to do with wanting DCs for some request or special item or better gear. In fact I know it was not about that as we have discussed it at length here at home. For those of you who do not know, LordSithaelon and I are together IRL. However, this does not color my opinion and I try to be fair in all my dealings when it comes to the game.

I feel that the original idea behind this was that, there are several groups that have been here forever and everyone knows them and so they get involved in the big events. That's fine really as we all want our PCs to have notoriety. But to others that are involved in things less well known, it seems like the same folks are the ones that run everything, even if 'in our opinion' they might do a crappy job. But because we are less well known, even trying to get in on some of that stuff is extremely difficult. I am not diminishing anyone's RP in the least, I'm speaking about the actions of the PCs. There are going to be other PCs that do not care for the leaders. Just like IRL, how I don't necessarily like our president here in America and think my 14 yr old could do a better job. As much as it is denied, there is a 'clique' feeling to some events/groups/factions/whatever. That is always going to be the case on any server. Nothing can be done about it because we develop rapport with certain people and for the most part, stick with them bc we like how they RP.

I would like to challenge everyone to find one other PC that your PC has not met yet and interact with them. Find out where they are from, why they are here (where ever here may be) and maybe, just maybe *gasp!* make a friend/contact/ ENEMY! And use that durned wand to recommend that person if you feel they deserve it. Not just for stellar RP because we do have a lot of 'N00bz' but for those that are trying, learning and getting better. Let's get to know our other community members. The people that make our world go round. Accept the challenge, all of you. You who runs the Silver Dragon Knights, you who stealths through Bendir spying for Tarkuul, you who trolls random conversation because you are a big badass War Knight or half-orc with a chip on his shoulder, You of the wilds! All of 'us'.

It comes down to everyone wanting to have fun but also wanting to receive some form of 'appreciation' or notation that they are doing something right. Too often, those things -are- overlooked but that is not necessarily anyone's fault but a lack of people to doll out 'gold stars' as opposed to seeing to those that have requests that need tending to or there is some 'greater' event taking place. We are all children .. every one of us, playing a game that keeps us young. We are in elementary school and want a gold star for staying in the lines of our coloring book. Not to sit forelornly at the corner table and watch the class pet get to dole out sharpened pencils.

MOD

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Isys ~ Daughter of Earth and Life
Ronnie ~ Without darkness, one cannot full appreciate the light
[MIA]Walker ~ Priestess of the Helping Hand

Letting players wand each other for DC's will lead to abuse as everyone can make as many toons as they want on as many accounts as they want and I don't think we want to add keeping an eye out for that on the already overfull plate of the DM's.

Not saying everyone will do this. Probably not even many would but there are always some rotten apples in the basket that would abuse this and thus render it impractical.

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Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

I don't know what to say about the OP, other than in life you get what you put into it. Negative remarks breed negative feelings and don't often get the results you want. That said:

This perceived notion that a certain group of PC's receive an unfair amount of DC's could have a perfectly logical explanation. Let's use some examples and rationalize instead of focusing on how evil the unknown "they" are.

Person A seems to get a lot of DC's. Person A often uses his wand to alert DM's of RP taking place that Person A enjoys.

Person B gets significantly less DC's. Person B never uses their wand to alert DM's of RP they enjoy so a DM has to stumble upon Person B or Person B has to be interacting with Person A who uses their wand when they see good RP. Thus logically decreasing the amount of DC's Person B earns.

In this example, Person B makes a choice to refuse to use their DC wand to recommend good roleplay despite not only other players but DM's informing them it is not begging for DC's but helping the DM team out by bringing good RP to their attention. This is an issue created by Person B, who is blaming the issue on people who have nothing to do with that choice. I am not saying Person B is a bad Person. Person B is probably a very sweet, nice, fun person, whom can be respected, and enjoyable to be around but without knowing it they are creating a problem because they are holding to an ideal while good in theory is terrible in practice. The solutions for this issue that I can think of off the top of my head: Person B needs to change their way of thinking and understand recommending someone else for a DC helps that person and encourages them to keep giving the enjoyable RP they are giving, and if Person B gets one as well it is a reward for not only bringing the good RP to the DM's attention but also for being a part of that RP. Alternatively: Person B can figure out who the Person A's are and hang around them because Person A's have no problem using their wand to recommend good RP. Either solution will work.

Now second example:

Person C is very involved with the server on the large. They participate in a lot of factions, they spend their time organizing groups of players and create an environment and help shape the world of Amia. This means Person C obviously has a lot of attention from the DM's because they are putting effort into creating a Faction/Organization/Etc for the Server and helping the DM's by providing yet another 'thing' on the server. As such, DM's are more apt to witness this person's RP thus giving Person C a much higher chance of earning DC's.

Person D is not involved with a faction/organization/etc. Person D is no less valuable to the server because they too add something to the server but it is on a smaller scale. Person C is in no way better than Person D, but because Person D isn't as involved in the big picture of the server they may not receive as much DM attention and therefore decrease their chances of receiving DC's. Now if Person D is also a Person B it only further decreases the chance of DC's. The solutions for this problem again: Person D can try to be more involved with the big picture of the server. Doing so would however require their character to most likely become involved with Person C's. If Person D does not feel that this option is a good one, then Person D can starting using their wand more which would help alert the DM to hey... you spend a lot of time with person C over there but there is good RP over here too... come check it out sometime. Or Person D could hang with a person A.

I think if you objectively look at it, a lot of the perceived lack of DC earning could be more perception rather than reality. Of course I am not saying you have to use my solutions or you are screwed. Another perfectly valid path to take is this: Stop worrying about DC's and enjoy the game. Enjoy the interaction and story telling. Enjoy having fun again. This is the path I mostly enjoy. I don't use my wand because I'll be honest a lot of times I am too into what's going on to remember to. But the RP itself is the reward I get. Remember no one is entitled to a DC. You are entitled to the opportunity to earn one and the DM team has provided methods available for you to increase your chance of receiving them.

I don't have all the answers, I am not always right. I am just trying to inject some positive energy and hoping it'll spread. Remember always that this is a game and we are here to have fun. If there is a perceived problem a lot of times it is not just the other person's fault but our own. In life it is best to focus your energies on what you can change, because you can't force other people to change, but you can be part of the solution and often times by doing so, you encourage others to do the same.

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Characters:

Emily Kenson
Katia