AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Quote:

On the topic of drow wielding bows. "Weapon Proficiency: A drow is automatically proficient with the hand crossbow, the rapier, and the short sword. This trait replaces the high elf’s weapon proficiency." From the SRD. I'm pretty sure the idea of "racial weapons" is a cultural thing, elves aren't born knowing how to use them. So culturally drow prefer their own weapons (though we don't have hand crossbows so light I guess!) I think mechanically they just get elf weapons though, so yeah...

good point its mechanics that dictate lore here sadly *on this one point that is*

People have the misconception that the Underdark is all tunnels and alleyways and such. There are literally miles of open caverns, lakes, and plains with ceilings almost too high to see in some places. Where else would they build the cities? Heck, you don't even have to look at PnP maps for drow areas/cities, look at our servers own UD Areas. Some areas you could aim a bow in any direction and not hit anything but maybe a mushroom or the odd rothe or two.

Yes, drow can use and do use bows. Visibility plays no role. They're drow, remember? They have Darkvision. They can see perfectly fine in pitch black for anything involving hitting a target.

There are obviously places where crossbows make more sense however, just like on the surface. Handcrossbows and darts and whatnot are often popular among drow because they're subtle, can easily be hidden, and most of the time are easy to poison. Thus, easier assassinations. But for hunting, large-scale warfare, and surface raids, bows would likely be in their arsenal.

Last edited by serbiris on Tue, Jul 12 2011, 5:35 AM, edited 1 time in total.

It doesn't have to be all tunnels, these tunnels still *do* exist, they're mentioned repeatedly in the books and there are several classes devoted to fighting and holding cramped spaces. They're pretty relevant tactically, as holding positions. Your bows might be great in the wide caverns, but what about when you're not there? What about when the ceiling is too low for you to get a good arching shot? Generally you won't be choosing where you fight, and even when you do you'll be prepared for an ambush en route. So it makes more sense to train and carry the gear for one spare ranged weapon that will be *useful in all these areas rather than take special training for a weapon that does the same thing but in fewer circumstances.

As for visibility, Darkvision is not equal to normal vision, it's limited by range--120ft in this case. That's really not good enough to use bows "realistically". I didn't say that the mechanics reflect this at all, especially since all combat takes place within screen range, and in PnP you can fire an arrow through a 5ft square 1000ft long corridor and still have a decent chance of hitting something. Mechanically it's fine. Realistically it's not, and sure a lot of people don't care to reconcile the two because it's just an unnecessary complexity and the system does work, but for a lot of people it's worth thinking about. Hence my mentioning it, but also saying that bows are still fine.

*by which I mean, in real life crossbows are better than the mechanics would dictate. That's not to say everything in real life should be applied to FR, and mechanics are kind of important since there's no point in using a weapon if it works terribly.

Edit: some edits! Just to expand slightly on some stuff...

Tunnels exist in the UD just like thick forest and brush exists on the surface. Just because you can't use it in a particular area doesn't mean you can't use it at all. The same reason tavern guards don't usually use greatswords.

And I question your idea of "realistically." For firing volleys of arrows yard away a la 300? No, probably not. Hitting the Grimlock horde laying siege to the city wall? Easily. Taking out the cave full of Hook Horrors while staying out of range of their hooks? Most likely.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Tunnels exist in the UD just like thick forest and brush exists on the surface. Just because you can't use it in a particular area doesn't mean you can't use it at all. The same reason tavern guards don't usually use greatswords.

And I question your idea of "realistically." For firing volleys of arrows yard away a la 300? No, probably not. Hitting the Grimlock horde laying siege to the city wall? Easily. Taking out the cave full of Hook Horrors while staying out of range of their hooks? Most likely.

Why can't you use a crossbow for all that, though? Particularly if the crossbow has more utility outside of those circumstances. They're great for sieges because you lose the main weakness of slow reloading times. Or rather, the weakness is covered by the defences and your numbers.

I'm not saying you couldn't. And I'm certainly not saying they don't. But wouldn't crossbows, as a ranged weapon, meet the same problems with range as you stated?

In any case, I'm saying likely both are used in the situations in which they are most suited. And that it doesn't make much sense to say a weapon isn't used at all in a land simply because it doesn't work in all of that land's regions.

Yes, but crossbows are more accurate at the extremely short ranges combat is typically fought at. Bows tend not to be, and they shine in the use of volleys mainly by virtue of being able to rapidly fill a spot with arrows, where accuracy is less of an issue. They still work at short range but not as well (less power too I believe). Realistically... but again, the mechanics don't and can't reflect this, so it's perfectly reasonable to ignore how it works in real life when choosing your weapons in the game. It's just helpful to keep in mind that the setting is still (somewhat) subject to real-world physics, so in-game people will behave a certain way even if the mechanics don't support it (ie, that crossbows are fine, even though... you know, they're not).

...Why do I keep getting into debates about crossbows? It's unbecoming. I'll stop now, question answered, will agree to disagree if any other points on this remain...

because this isnt PNP so we struggle with it

Aye, I don't truly feel like taking it too much further either. Just have to say as a person that has hunted deer with a bow, the RL instrument easily works fine within 120ft, let alone what I could imagine of a fantasy one. 20-30 yards is actually desirable. And considering in hunting you're either lying in wait or sneaking up on something, two things drow excel at, I personally can just see its UD applications.

The major issue that comes up with Drow and bows is Arcane Archer, which is a different story altogether, because that's lore and not practicality.

The only reason crossbows are used in UD is because bows are the trademark of elves. They are also lighter, less cumbersome, quicker to fire off the first shot, and can be duel weilded.

Also PnP wise, crossbows have all those nifty bolts they can use. Which I think the drow ones are actually darts.

On Amia, ignore all that. Just pick whatever one you like the most. With the exception of Shortbow, they all have their high and low points.

With a risk to look like a total idjit (*sigh*) - I have tried to find out which year it is IG. Fail!

Could anyone tell the current year on Amia?

Should be 1380 DR.

Here is where the timeline info is.

LetumLux wrote:

Should be 1380 DR.

Here is where the timeline info is.

Much appreciated.

There's just very little lore supporting normal, big and clunky crossbows over short bows in drow culture. You can argue back and forth, but drow lore and weapon proficiences only talk about tiny hand crossbows. They're not the equivalent of light crossbows, mechanically or functionally. The choice between NWN's heavy/light crossbow and long/shortbow is unsettled by lore, so there's no reason to give preference to one over the other unless you have good IC reasons to do so. I fully agree with Dark Immolation, but there's really no need to even defend the viability of bows over crossbows because no credible lore actually contests that viability.

I wish there were tiny crossbows...

I wish crossbows were represented mechanicaly as the armour-piercing, one-shot-kill weapons they were. In the very least that there was a class that actually made them useful. Like AA's did to bows.

Why? Because crossbows, especially light ones, are so much cooler than longbows.

Anyone know who the queen of air and darkness is? She's listed on the deity page and I have seen her idol in game but I can't find anything lore-wise.

Correct if I'm wrong. Does the Blackguard need Wisdom 14 to receive all the items ? Or 12 ?

Nevermind, it's here: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&p=934671#p934671

666WaysToHell wrote:

Anyone know who the queen of air and darkness is? She's listed on the deity page and I have seen her idol in game but I can't find anything lore-wise.

She is the queen of the Unseelie court (opposed to the seelie) so one of the fey deities and the evil one! Rules the court of winter/nightmares so looking up those sort of things will give you much more! admittedly, found very little myself on her as well but that's what I know off hand, at least. Others might be able to provide more or I can, once I dig it out.

From Dragon 359

Its pretty much what that says here in Amia, except that her Courts called The Winter Court, or the Court of Nightmares (Stupid name really). She's all the nasty things you hear about fey doing. The two courts represent the two seasons. Summer and Winter. The Unseelie court is the Winter, cold hearted, filled with death, darkness and a lacking of joy.

Seeing the "Drow: Bow vs Crossbow" argument pop up again, I wish to ask of the DMs exactly how deep Edonil, L'Obsul, and possibly Underport (can't remember if it is Drow-held or not) are underground and if they have exits near any possible Elven-held locations. I don't need specifics as to where an exit may be, simply looking for as vague a direct answer as possible. (If that makes sense.) I ask this as it would likely clear a number of the issues right up if one of those three locations were near enough to the surface to qualify as a 'Drow Outpost for Surface Raiding.' If any of them did, I imagine it would simply make more sense as to why there would be Drow with bows.

Oh the three, the only one truely close to the surface is Underport, AFAIK. It's barely below ground compared to Edonil and L'Obsul, both of which are in the middle to lower reaches of the Upperdark, and Edonil might even qualify as being in the Middledark itself.

Can a skilled diviner foresee, (Predict) his own death or somebody else's through magical means?

Very_Svensk wrote:

Can a skilled diviner foresee, (Predict) his own death or somebody else's through magical means?

General answer: "yes"

Long answer: "Only exactly what the DM tells you and nothing more."

Hehe. I sense a business oppertunity aarise.
Not at all inspired by theorder oof the stick

Very_Svensk wrote:

Can a skilled diviner foresee, (Predict) his own death or somebody else's through magical means?

It is possible, but, foreseeing one's own death is also considered something of a taboo, as far as I recall.

You can play that your character thinks that s/he has foreseen her/his death.

Triumvir question: It's a demi-plane, right? So does that mean there are no night and day cycles? What about weather?

Thanks!

Yes, it's a demiplane. Demiplanes can have their own weather and cycles, I believe. I think they're determined at the time of creation. At least the ones created by Genesis. But I'm not that familiar with the exact history and/or creation of the Triumvir.

Day Dreaming wrote:

Triumvir question: It's a demi-plane, right? So does that mean there are no night and day cycles? What about weather?

Thanks!

It has a night and day because every great story has a night and day. It has all sorts of weather because a great song needs inspiration that comes from all sorts of weather. Time passes on it like it does in the real world, though weather and seasons may not always sync up or last the same amount of time, even when comparing two summers in the Triumvir itself.

.... Legend has it that the Triumvir was, once upon a time, on the Prime Material.

Thank you both for the information!

Is it safe to assume the powers granted to classes like Defender of Sealtiel, Emissary of Barachiel, etc, come from the respective Paragons themselves?

Since the Hebdomad are equivalent in status(and I assume, power) to Archfiends which we know can grant abilities, my thought is yes. Or at least they have agreements through the Good deities for grant specific powers.

So I got the advice to post this in the Lore question thread.

With the skill Lore PCs can see what kind of items we have found. However how should PCs interpret only usable by "good,evil,fighter,PM etc etc"?
When you pick up a sword only usable by weapon masters how do you understand you can not use it in roleplay? Can PCs roll lorecheck on my cleric war boots and thus determine I am an evil person and should be smited?

Lore is an automatic skill and if you character has a chance of identifying the item it will, however if the item is already identified any other PC won't need a lore check to see what item is.

The use only restrictions is another way that Bioware dropped ther ball on making the conversion from base DnD. AFAIK in DnD anything that you character isnt proficient in would still be useable but you would suffer an ab penalty, so as far as lore goes for NWN and the use restrictions for alignment it is really a case of "Any excuse you can find that seems plauseable."

I.E - A good only alignment sword would feel "wrong" or repugnant to an evil pc, like stomach turning. Likewise for the otherway, which if you factor UMD into the equation the excuse then turns into. "This sword feels wrong, unless you trained in the ancient art of 'Meh fuck it. Ill use it anyway.'"

As for racial restrictions thats always a case of physical design, so a gnome only sword would be teeny tiny, and again UMD just means their busting out ducttape or if I remember correctly in DnD magical items can usually be resized with a command word known to the weapons creator as well.

Question regarding mythalling and greatswords/greataxes:

I heard that greatswords can now have 5 benign powers due to their increased size?
Is it the same for greataxes?

All large weapons can.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Is it safe to assume the powers granted to classes like Defender of Sealtiel, Emissary of Barachiel, etc, come from the respective Paragons themselves?

Since the Hebdomad are equivalent in status(and I assume, power) to Archfiends which we know can grant abilities, my thought is yes. Or at least they have agreements through the Good deities for grant specific powers.

Paragons or servitors of such, yes.

Quote:

I heard that greatswords can now have 5 benign powers due to their increased size?

Now? Been like that for awhile. All two handers.

Ah-hah

Thanks, I've never had a character that used a two-hander XD

PaladinOfSune wrote:

All large weapons can.

Really? Ha, I never knew. Must have been put in place during my 4 month hiatus.

i wanted to know on what Generalised people in fr know, mainly about organs like: Do they know the general functions of organs?
if they dont who does? (if anyone does)

oh and is there any book on FR Flora and fauna?

Best sourcebook for Calimshan and the calishite people - GO!

Look in References at the bottom.

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, page 155.

edit to fix broken link.

I tend to avoid Forgotten realms wiki. But thanks!

For stuff like cities/nations and stuff, it's perfectly fine. You just need to pay attention to the timelines. And they almost always have the 3e sourcebook info referenced.

Races of Faerun has quite a bit... also the source book calimport is another good read... calishites follow a strict caste system slaves/labor/skilled labor/merchants/advisors/nobility... they enjoy a rather luxurious lifestyle and also take great pride and reverence in their family though only females can actually marry and move up the social caste system... thats them at a glance

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/2/fr_d ... sr9589.zip

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/2/fr_downloads/tsr9589.zip

ji

After looking at the Dogma written on the idol of Bahamut in-game, I have to ask about the source for that. I haven't found Bahamut in the usual FR deity sourcebooks. He's not in the FRCS, Faiths and Pantheons, Faiths and Avatars, or Powers and Pantheons (though Tiamat is in a few of them). The only entry I've found for him is in the Draconomicon, and what's there is certainly not what's on the idol. I hadn't really noticed that before, but I find I am curious. Which sourcebook do we use for Tiamat and Bahamut, officially? All this time I'd been using the Draconomicon, so I just wanna make sure that that's the accepted sourcebook for them. What's in there for Tiamat is quite a lot different than what's in the other books, for example.

I just have to make absolute sure before I do certain things IG! I know we have a very large following for Bahamut, as well as a pretty extensive history involving these two gods. Have we always assumed the Draconomicon entries for Amia?

Also, if this is answered somewhere else or even in this thread, then sorry. I missed it!

Races of the Dragon also has a listing of Draconic gods that may or may not just be a carbon copy from the Draconomicon but I don't have them with me at work to compare.

Page 9 of Dragons of Faerun would be worth a look though. Actually most of that listed history. Specifically 'Rise of the Dragon King: DR 1359'

As I understand it, the events listed there would have occured only a cool 20ish years ago in game.

The Lore Question Thread

Who is online