You know whats a remarkable tool for sparking RP? War. Every time I see a well-handled war crop up on a server, it usually has a spike in player count and participation - conflict spurs story, and a war is a rather open ended conflict that provides easy opportunities for people to get involved. Of course, if it's handled as a simple PvPfest, you're not going to be making very much story at all, nor attracting many new players or characters.

It'd need to be handled delicately, with some maturity on each side: players would have to hammer out a series of events amongst themselves - a raid on a caravan here, some lower levels sent in to spy there, merchants playing both sides of the field, et cetera. Objectives need be set, and battles need to be worked out beforehand to be relatively fair for both sides (even if this requires stretching your RP a little - it's what makes the situation fair and fun for all involved). Most importantly, though, players have to be willing to lose, and to help make their loss meaningful - for themselves, and the other side. In the words of the ever-wise Urist McDwarf "Losing is !!FUN!!"

Just puttin' it out there, in case anyone's got any ideas, or the IG means to stir the pot.

_________________
Plays as:
Richard Branno: Helmite Turnipfarmer
Herial Ghalen: The Merriest Man on Amia

I agree that this is too vague to be useful. A GM of a PnP campaign can't say to the players, 'You arrive in the city. Do whatever,' and then hope they'll stumble on the hook the GM has prepared. If you want them to find and help someone who has been kidnapped you draw their attention to it - as they're buying supplies you say, 'You hear a commotion in the next stall, as a woman begs to the grocer to let her have some food because she paid all her money in ransom,' or when they're in the tavern you make sure someone asks them what they think of the rash of kidnappings. And players, OOC, will pick up on these hints and send their characters out on the adventure, because they know that's how the game works.

If there's a plot or opening that 'available' for PC's then PC's need to be made aware of it, IC or OOC, so they can start doing it. Waiting for players to stumble onto options or plots that are waiting for them is essentially asking them to guess what's in your head. And everyone knows the mind of a DM is inscrutable.

_________________
You dare mock the Tibbly one, catcherer of drowses?

However, it isn't quite like that, TYP. While there are some plots that are waiting for players to "stumble" into, what I meant was players being on the initiating side and us being the facilitators. See my much earlier post in this thread where I begged players to start playing and start taking risks and doing things in game. We want to be receptive to your characters' goals and the impacts they can have on the world, but you have to start doing that. We had hit a slump where most of you (and arguably, rightly so) didn't feel compelled to do so because you had failed numerous times in the past. I was encouraging you to try again, and this time with a DM (myself) trying to pull some political capital behind the scenes to get it to work out for you.

Now, on to answering Gabe.

A few months ago now, I guess, we noticed the downturn in player times. It was a humbling experience. For me, for other DMs, even for Tormak who was on the team at the time. I know some of you think that he might be the kind of person to look at a detail like that and not care, but from his reaction on the DM forums, I would definitely say that he, perhaps more than a lot of us, was definitely humbled. It was apparent to him, as it was to all of us, that something needed to change. We weren't sure what, exactly, but even before we got to the point of asking you guys for feedback, we came up with one thing:

As a DM Team, we don't have a unified outlook or direction we're all moving in. We're a bunch of highly independent thinkers. Some of us work very well in little groupings and teams, but we knew that players often received very different responses to the same questions depending upon which DM they asked. While this is always going to happen to some degree, there was never any actual explanation for why there was a difference in answers, and most often it seemed like laziness, ignorance, or possibly some more nefarious reasons. (It was mostly the former two, in my estimation.) This is what I meant when I said we were several steps ahead of you on the "unified team" business, because we knew that before we even asked about the player count problem.

We came to that conclusion, which led us to asking the necessary question: "What should our unified vision be, then?"

That's when we came to you, and wanted your feedback on why the player count had descended. We were very careful about how we worded our request to you so as not to alarm you and open the door for some of the players who had their noses bent out of shape to waltz in and point and laugh and say told you so as they have already done in this thread (fortunately most of you players recognize that and have, much to my thanks, ignored the sour grapes).

You were all very helpful. Here is more or less a compilation of what we were able to pull from your feedback. This compilation is "the majority opinion", or what the most of you had to complain about:

Disproportionate Spread of DCs:

Always been a problem in your minds, will always be a problem in your minds, even when it isn't actually a problem (I'm not saying it isn't). I am saying it isn't intentional and it isn't favoritism and it isn't us screwing people over. What it is is the DM Team not creating enough opportunities for everyone. The way to fix this is to DM more, DM more, DM more, and with as many new people as one can. Once again, this is why I encouraged, earlier in this thread, for all players to get more active in game so that we actually see you and notice you in order to DC you, and also why I made the alt-itis thread (you're more likely to get involved in things that involve DMs to get DCs if you have consistent characters).

In no way, shape, or form will players ever have any say in other players getting DCs other than the system we have now, where you recommend them. We have looked at the problem, brainstormed, tried to figure it out, but we just can't find a way that isn't abusable by the players. We're sorry, but that's the truth.


The Server Feels Outdated and Areas Get Real Boring Real Fast:

Absolutely true. This is a very valid concern. Incidentally, it is also one we started working on well before we ever asked about the player count conditions. Only a handful of you whom we have picked to work with us on the project can see the forum, but we started a "Rejuvenation" project, wherein the intent is to assess the current makeup of all of the areas in Amia, on A and on B, and (1) update them with all the nice cool toys and features we have now (as well as renewed creativity and tech we have from designers and developers like Glim, Msheeler, Xaviera, Jes, and others I can't think of atm), (2) streamline them so that they make a little more sense than they do now, (3) get rid of or change the model of places that have become very stagnant and see little to no use, and (4) to ultimately create a system of module management where we can most easily integrate YOUR changes, YOUR impacts on the world quickly and efficiently. And also really struggle to bridge the gap that someone in this recently referred to as favoritism (it is, in my opinion, but not intentional favoritism) where one group gets a module update in days and another waits months. Sometimes there are very legitimate reasons for why this wait happens. Other times, there really isn't.

And just so you know, to give credit where credit is due, the Rejuvenation Project was Mosh's brainchild. It was his idea and his vision and he knew it needed to be done. I agreed 100%, and clearly so do a lot of others. This is mostly what I refer to when I say there is a LOT of technical stuff required for this to happen, and it is a slow, meandering process and I think the only way it is going to be done is if someone starts cracking the whip. Nicely. Like maybe a licorice whip that tastes as good as it hurts.


Partying and Level Ranges:

This was brought up in the feedback, and again more recently by Letum. People feel that not being able to adventure with others outside of a certain OOC level range hurts your personal RP and actually crushes the potential for good action-oriented roleplay. We discussed this, and we have a few ideas for what we might want to do, but I pointed out something to the Team that made me wonder, and I really need to ask it of the playerbase (or perhaps, just inform you)...

You all do know that you can adventure with any PC, of any level, so long as you are in the same party together, right? That means everyone only getting 1 XP? There are no rules broken when you do this. Some of you seem to be under the impression that even if you are partied together it is against the rules and you can't do it, but the truth is you can, so long as you are partied together. Now, if you complain, "OH, but we should be getting the XP for it, or at least the greenhorn ought to be!", then what it suggests to me is that there is the potential you are doing it all for the wrong reasons. But, more importantly, like the DC issue above, there's not any easy way to keep that from being horribly abused by players when DMs aren't around to notice it. As in, that level 30 softens those CR 25s into a fine meat paste before letting the level 5 step in and kick them while they're down.

That question inevitably leads me to the next matter...


IF IT'S A RULE, MAKE IT A RULE!:

Fair enough, players. We have heard you. Though we can bitch and moan and wish to the high heavens that your common sense will guide you clearly through the universe, perhaps we must lend credence to Svensk, who is so fond of quoting, "Common sense isn't common."

I am going to start a stickied thread for you in Improving Amia. If you run across something a DM tells you is a rule, and you cannot find that rule listed anywhere, then I want you to post in that thread telling us about it, and we will find a way to incorporate it in an easy way for everyone to see and know. After all, we have a Rules & Lore forum. That's my own initiative for trying to solve this problem, so I hope it satisfies.


Not Enough DM Quests:

I agree with this, and most of the team does, as well. I always feel the DM Team is very aggravated with me because I'm overly demanding sometimes and I have very high expectations of us. I really, really, really want DMs on the team DM'ing, and not playing their characters, or doing this that or the other thing, but actively DM'ing. Big plots, small events, whatever. Something to keep you guys interested and having fun. This is why I wind up with some very extreme views about what we need to do and how we need to go about fixing problems.

Is it a matter of having more DMs on the team? Maybe. However, you can have too many cooks in the kitchen, and the more DMs you have, the harder it is to maintain that unified approach we want to take with the server and with our playerbase.

A lot of you say, "we like smaller events". And that's very reasonable. Long-running plots of the like I tend to run do not lend themselves to a changing cast of characters. Smaller events, or one-offs, as they are called in my book, are critical to helping give a lot of PCs the fodder they need to develop their own characters. A lot of the time when I see that comment about wanting smaller events, my initial response is to take it personally because I feel like I am being told that I, as a DM, need to do that.

There's a reason I don't, if any of you have wondered. The fact is, I don't like one-offs. I don't like small events that open and close in an hour. As a player, I don't like them, and often don't bother playing in tabletop sessions where the game is a "one-off" and nothing is going to come of it. I've said it before, but I'm hardwired for the longer story with consequences and outcomes. But just because I am not the DM to do smaller events (I can do them, sure, I just don't like to and thus I don't think I do them very much justice, I don't think anyone has ever been in a one-off I did that actually enjoyed it) that doesn't mean others on the team shouldn't do them.

Our answer to this problem is incorported, actually, into the next major concern we saw sprouting up...


Amia Needs a Major Plot Arc:

Some of you think you're so clever in coming up with good ideas for what major story arcs would really get a lot of people involved. When you see these things come up, you're going to crow and say, "Ah hah, they took my suggestion!"

The reality is that a lot of these suggestions, we already had in mind. But you're welcome to take the credit if you so choose (I would prefer you take the credit for getting involved in the major plot arc as necessary and using it to change your world.)

The fact of the matter is, I have always believed this is necessary, but it is very, very difficult. We have only just started discussing as a team how we are going to go about this, and I suspect that I am going to be a major leader in this department. It is the realm I work the best in, and I really hope the rest of the team is not going to feel that I am "telling them what to do" as much as suggesting to them what they might want to do in order to really make the server's overacing storyline work for you guys, the playerbase.

As Iron says, I am not going to show our full hand here, but I am going to repeat what I said earlier in this thread: you should see a lot more opportunities cropping up in the near future. Things happening. Take the risks. I want to see Cordor one day be a player run city, but there is such a long history of players not taking responsibility for their IC positions of power when it comes to how they handle other players, how they treat them well, how they offer them opportunities for RP. By you folks getting involved, the DM Team can literally see your intent. We can measure your intent, and we can judge your intent and your value in this department far, far better than you simply saying OOC in a thread, "You guys just need to change the way you do things and let us suddenly run our world."

Our goal is not to make this process a chore for you, btw, but to make it fun.

An overarcing storyline requires both connected series of events, such as the kind I am running, AS WELL AS a lot of "one-offs" or smaller events that, while they are self-contained and fun for those who are involved them, are in and of themselves spawned from or have some relation to the major arcing storyline (or don't, because random things do happen.) What does this make room for? It makes room for a lot of players who don't normally see action to be involved in it, and then to get out of it and go back about their own business if they so choose. However, those small events, if they are connected in some small way to something greater, immediately becomes an "open door" for those players to try to get involved in a larger way.

You don't need to tell me that all of us, myself included, have dropped the ball in the department of "getting people included". I still take the criticism of one player very seriously...I don't remember the players name, but he was upset that during the Vodak/Triumvir event, he had been working very diligently before the event and wanted to be involved, but then my very arbitrary choice to cut down on the number of people I had in the "small event" dungeon crawl I had set up at the Triumvir left this player, who had dedicated a lot of time and energy prior to that time, out in the cold. My heart sank at reading that. Mostly because I realized he was right. Somehow in the hustle and bustle and my desire to do what I considered a "small event" (the Triumvir/Vodak episode was my version of a small event, btw, so you can see that even my scale of small event is a little out of whack), I had completely overlooked this poor player. I hope that whoever that is has the ability to forgive me and give me another chance. The fact that I don't even remember right now who it was doesn't bode well for that (sorry), but the fact that I remember the criticism and take it as seriously as I do should say something.

In the end? We're not only working on this, but you're probably about to see it coming up soon. But I will say that we're trying to take a unique approach with this. We want to try to get away from constantly dropping things out of the DM sky into your laps, and actually try to "tie-in" the major arc with some of the things that you guys, as players, are organizing. Why? Well, the things you organize yourselves means you are getting a lot of players to show up for it, which is something we usually like. And it means that when we briefly co-opt your event for something related to a major arc (which I hope no one ever takes offense to), then everyone who is there will feel that they were part of something special. And it is organic. And best of all, it gets you a DM for your personal event to help you organize and put up pretty window dressing or whatever.

I've been typing a bit too long and my back hurts and I my be becoming unclear in my attempt to illuminate you. If so, I apologize. You are welcome to ask for clarifications afterwards (with no guarantee you'll get them. I have to keep some mystique, you nosy bastards.)


Economy:

Mea culpa on removing the gold drop on monsters. Blame me, personally. I'm the one who fired the gun on that, but I did it without knowing that we couldn't have the intended replacement for that money up in a reasonable amount of time. While this is an issue that we still intend to fix, the truth is, we have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

Though, do expect some lootbin changes coming up. Sensible ones that shouldn't screw with you too much.


Make RP Hubs RP Hubs Again:

We agree. Accomplishing this, however, requires us to utilize the Rejuvenation Project noted above, as well as a crafty use of our major plotline arcing, so when we do those things, making areas into actual RP Hubs will be something we keep in mind.

Though to those of you with specific comments regarding Cordor? You won't be seeing the portal rods coming back anytime soon unless you go after that problem IC'ly. You also won't be seeing the NPC populations opinion of you adventurers changing unless you tackle that, as well, IC. Sorry to do that to you, I really am, but it needs to be earned IC to be appreciated and used well by you afterwards.


DMs Helping Factions/Playing Favorites with Factions:

We saw this complaint come up, but it really is a hard one. We also didn't talk about the issue in depth, so, I'm going to open it up to you. My own personal opinion is not very helpful to the discourse, because while I see factions as a "natural outgrowth" of roleplay, I am of the opinion that people just don't THINK enough about how a faction works and how it needs to work in order for them to be sensible, successful, and become "useful" to DMs when it comes times for DMs to involve factions in major stories. While I suppose I could try to make another Alternates post like I did to try to explain how I think you should go about factions, I don't think it would be entirely helpful because you would be likely to disagree with me and it might come off preachy and even too demanding of you, because I reiterate, I really don't think most of you THINK enough about factions and thus you wind up with a faction that doesn't go anywhere, lacks purpose.

Don't get me wrong, I think that as players you have collectively learned a lot over the years about how your factions should work in Amia. There has been marked improvement and I am currently mostly content with how they are now.

Anyway, the issue brought up wasn't so much with factions themselves as with the interaction of DMs and factions, how some factions die in the shade while others flourish in the glow of DM attention (and too often people see a DM PC in those flourishing factions and then we have some issues.)

So, since we didn't give this issue a proper treatment, you're welcome to give it some discussion. Please keep it civil.


DM Behavior on the Forums

Welp.

I would like to say this problem fixed itself first of all. Some of you may be of the opinion that we are still lacking in this department. Do not refer to anything older than, oh, a month, we'll say. Suffice it to say, we read your message loud and clear. I don't think we'll need a Head DM to moderate us, because those of us on the team currently have seen the player drop, been humbled by it, and to put it succinctly, we know that there ARE consequences for having a shitty attitude with players. We lose them. And then we lose the server.

I would volunteer Silent for you to send complaints to in the future, but he is going to be busy with school. So I am just going to nominate us all for the time being. We're all very good about sharing PMs we receive from players with each other. If this becomes a problem again, you know how to get our attention.


There's Not Enough Opportunity for Good vs. Evil Roleplay. I am a Badass and want to Fuck the Good Guys. I am a Good Guy and want to Crush Evil:

Hee hee hee...now I'm going to be deliberately vague. We have something in the works that we think might assist with your concerns in this department.

All hail Disco.



There. I think I outlined this as well as I could and gave you the response you were looking for that shows we have thought about it the feedback, we have taken action, and we do have a plan (a plan that is also being more firmly developed). Does this inspire a little more confidence, Gabe?

I think that's my favorite post of yours ever, Yoss. Really cool. I hope that I am right in assuming the rest of the Team is reading that, agreeing with it "behind the curtains" so to speak and working toward each goal as independently or cooperatively as you all feel will inspire you and be fun. That really helped my faith in the Team's future. I look forward to seeing the changes, however long they may take to arrive.

Oh I believe it Silent. I bet the DM/DEV forum is just teeming with response to this one. An observation from a former DM/DEV of other servers.

As to the question from the OP for myself I'd say that alot has already been said that is right and just as much that is wrong. Here's my big thing as much as I applaud and enjoyed a DM run plotline the ones that mean the most to me even to this day are the player ran ones. As simple as a one time get together such as a wedding or as in depth as the carefully laid corruption in a major city spanning months or years of playtime for dozens of players. Some of which never even realized that they touched a major plot that encompassed a whole town or even the whole server.

Though it is the DMs who keep things moving now and then the server is truly player driven. When I was a new player on NWNs, some 8+ years I believe now, the first lesson I had to learn was to let the flow of RP take me where it lead. That doesn't mean you go looking for a plot but to put yourself into your PCs shoes and mind and not to say no to someone else's plotline.

I once had a Elven Warrior that was on the way to his own wedding and never made it there. Why? Because when you get surrounded by Dharrow on the road and are told that you're going to be sacrificed to Lloth it is going to happen unless you deny the flow of RP. Hindsight on that day is likely some of the best RP I've ever had. Because I got out of the spot light and let someone elses RP lead the way..

I like what Yoss said about DMs being "facilitators". If you want DM help do not sit there and try to write a script for them to follow. Simply play and let you intents be known through action and then roll with what comes your way.

Heh. I remember a day when Renais and Daniel were in the Chapel of Lathander in Cordor and Waukeen (someone please remind us which DM had that login so I can thank them again) came in and took us on this acid trip freakout of an adventure with the wall tearing themselves down as if time was passing quickly and then rebuilding them again but I digress from the topic with memories.

The short anwser is just play and feel the flow. Get out of those places that you hang out in all the time and let someone elses plot impact your day, week, month or even year and you will find that your time IG will become a glorious, ongoing and ever changing story that you cannot wait to see what happens next.

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Guys I play:
Finng Meras
Joshua Steel
Daniel Makie
Celub Elubmiire
Tristan
Len'ionel

That was your brief run-in with the Zeitgeist.

*Standing ovation to the staff, and players*



It inspires the shit out of me, that's for sure. =D Kudos to you lot 'up' there for letting this be a community discussion and collaboration, and for all your efforts seeing our beloved Amia thrive once more!!

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I Am:
Derrin: 'Nothing to see here'
Beck: Hard working dwarf paladin.
Naela 'Widow': Wandering priestess.
Celinor Triellian: Paladin of Corellon.

First of all, I believe this post does inspire confidence in the playerbase. It is informative rather than condescending. Thank you for pulling the curtain back slightly so we get a view of the wizard and his machinations.

Secondly:




Here is a radical idea. Get rid of the DC system all together. Don't take away peoples DC's who have them already but don't give them out anymore. DC's can still be used for gold or experience so let DC's disipate from peoples accoutns naturally through this method. If people want items or special requests, which DC's are currently used for, the simple solution is "earn" them through one's rp as is already necessary. Why are DC's even needed for this if there is corresponding rp. Screen shots, DM interaction and other players verification (through screenshots) of rp which has been done towards the acquisition of said item or spell, etc. is all that is really needed in my opinion. The only thing DC's do now is create the problems outlined in the quote above. If the team cannot come to a solution how to fix this get rid of it. One doesn't keep things in their personal lives if they are broken and unable to be fixed(pack rats excluded), so why continue with DC's.



On another note. I believe the team should try and recruit DM's from different timezones so there are DM's online at all times. I know this is an ideal but it would help with the feeling by some players that they never get to interact with DM's. (I am not privy to whether or not this has been attempted so forgive me if it has.)

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"Ain't it like most people, I'm no different, love to talk on things we don't know about." The Avett Brothers

"Broken and unable to be fixed" does not describe the situation, though. "Debatably broken, and probably fixable with effort" is more like it.

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Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026

Character Portraits!

People whining about favoritism over DC's has occcured since I joined the server in 2005. If people need to be rewarded by DM's in some way then the DM's can use the RP praise thread or send the individual in question a PM or even a tell.

For the record, and this isn't to brag, I have about 70-80 DC's(I believe, haven't checked in a while) sitting in my account so I am not complaining that I don't get any. I RP for RP's sake not to be rewarded by a DM. As I said though, it is just my opinion.

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"Ain't it like most people, I'm no different, love to talk on things we don't know about." The Avett Brothers

What Yoss said was that there's no viable way to make DCs distributable by players. He didn't say the same for DCs being distributed by DMs. Inequity in that area, he said, is a problem fixable by more DMs being in game DMing more often.

And I agree. I like the DC system as it stands. It provides a tangible, real-time incentive for people to step up their RP. Being awarded a DC is a DM's way of saying, "This! This, that you are doing right now, right here in game, this is making the server awesomer. Do more of THIS." Getting the same feedback hours or days later in the RP praise thread or a PM wouldn't have the same impact, the same immediacy. You might have forgotten just what it was that made the RP so special, or you might not even be thinking of the same RP that gets cited there.

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Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026

Character Portraits!

Fixed my Yoss quote, sorry, just woke up and still a little groggy. As for instant gratification, I say so what. Ego stroking isn't why people should be rping anyways. If one cannot remember their rp from a few hours ago or even days then that is the persons problem not the one giving the compliment.

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"Ain't it like most people, I'm no different, love to talk on things we don't know about." The Avett Brothers

I am going to lock this. Not because any of you are naughty, but we're going round round round like a record, baby. I also think that everybody who wanted to says something has had the chance, and that we're now getting in arguments for the sake of the arguments.

There are undoubtedly gems of wisdom in here, or very well-versed suggestions, and tons of constructive feedback... but at 650+ posts you'll need an archaeologist to unearth them. Besides, we already asked for your feedback on this point, and we got a nice collection in the DM forum (some of which I saw duplicated here, you lazy posters!).

I think that everybody who wanted to says something has had the chance, and that there are many reasons why we have less players these days. We need to be realistic as well: some reasons are out of our hands. Others you, as a player, can help with: be nice to newbs, use stuff in game to run your own entertainment. The DM team also has a part to play, and the Devs as well. However, most of us are not like we were 5 years ago: we got children, jobs, and perhaps a different view on priorities. Keep that in mind as well.

Anyway, I thank you for all your contributions. This thread shows one thing: Amia still brings about a lot of passion, and that's good. And now stop lurking in the forums and play the damn game!

ps. Yossarin started a discussion about what happens next... we will continue that in a dedicated thread.

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Say 'no' to JSBF!

I am weird!

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
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