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I'd be all for allowing something like that to be requested (or even freely given out) so long as there was, say, a job system item that could be crafted to counter it. I seem to recall a piece of iron or something repelling the spell? Or am I imagining things?

A "Sheet of Lead." Far better to just say there are Undetectable Alignment scroll, potion and ring vendors on every street corner.

_________________ *Inactive as of November 28, 2013*

CouncilofAutumn wrote:

A "Sheet of Lead." Far better to just say there are Undetectable Alignment scroll, potion and ring vendors on every street corner.

Which kind of defeats the entire purpose of having the actual spell, now that you think about it.

That's not the issue, really. If we did that, we would legitimize and validate the alignment system as an accurate and adequate representation of our characters. It would also require a shared understanding of what constitutes alignment and how to correctly interpret it.

Your PC's alignment is currently your business - and sometimes rarely, the DMs'. But with an IC way for others to find out, it becomes a fact of the game world. An additional standard by which to evaluate empirical data, the RP you see. And if that's not problematic in itself (which it is, given that it offers an easy and unambiguous solution to what could be juicy, fruitful interaction), it's certainly a problem that the results won't be commensurable. What one player considers evil, another considers neutral. What one player considers chaotic, another might see as deeply lawful. And it's not that these players are wrong: they might simply weigh different variables differently and come to very justified conclusions. Is the "noble savage" truly chaotic because of his resistance to hierarchical society, bureaucratic legislation and other obstacles of natural freedom, or is he deeply lawful for his repect of tribal custom and belief and a natural law that governs his morality? There's no right answer to this question.

Why is this a problem, then? Well, you can have two characters who behave exactly the same and are only interpreted differently by their players. One makes his PC Lawful Neutral, the other Neutral Evil. This is not a result of anything IC in the gameworld, but the ideas of the players behind it. How can you then justify a Detect Evil spell pinpointing one of them but not the other? Will the incriminated cry foul and demand that DMs change the other guy's alignment too? I don't have such borderline evil PCs myself, but Joon is currently Lawful Neutral. He could be and has been Neutral Good, too. That doesn't imply any change in his fundamental behaviour and beliefs (though there has been some), it's just me turning my attention to different aspects of the character. The same goes for Kalliniel: as a free spirit he's very much Chaotic, as a rather cruel and stern warrior he's Neutral, but as the closest equivalent to an Elven Paladin he could even be read as Lawful Good. The point is: any of these evaluations are justified by IC observations. It ultimately comes down to what the player decides is most fitting. As there is no common standard and formula by which to calculate alignment, there can be no commensurability in the results of Detect Evil. When used against hundreds of different players, the spell encounters drastic problems not present in one DM's home campaign.

Right now, alignment is present in our game world but its impact is minimal. That's how it should be, given that there is no - and never will be - a consensus on the proper interpretation and application of the alignment system. If something is inherently problematic and the source of much disagreement, you don't help the situation by giving it more impact and relevance.

IronAngel wrote:

Right now, alignment is present in our game world but its impact is minimal.

The DMs can and should be changing the alignment of people who act predominantly like an alignment that they're not.

Monks always being lawful is a thing
Barbarians always being non-lawful is a thing
Bards always being non-lawful is a thing
Paladins always being lawful good is a thing
Assassins always being evil is a thing
Druids always having 'neutral' somewhere in their alignment is a thing
Smite Evil is a thing
Smite Infidel is a thing
Outer Planes being based on alignment is a thing
Gods allowing followers and clerics within certain steps of their alignments is a thing
Dragon Disciples and the Dragons they seek to emulate being certain alignments is a thing

So much of this game is based on alignment. I absolutely agree that you should be free to play your character how you want. I also think that there should be a predominant alignment based on it, and what that is, is ultimately up to the DMs. If you really, really have a problem with alignment, then you're gonna want to play something that doesn't have one, or play in a setting that downplays it, like Ravenloft.

Forgotten Realms certainly downplays alignment quite a bit, and Amia hasn't been picky either. The examples you list are very good, because good argument and empirical evidence shows that many of those cases don't seem to always conform to the alignments they're given. That only enforces the point: you can interpret it almost any way you like, depending on your perspective. Monks certainly aren't lawful the same way paladins are, any more than the chaos or a bard is equivalent to the chaos of a barbarian. (Not that those two particular restrictions are justified; they're the silliest in the game.) The point is: if you think there is a "correct" predominant alignment for everything and everyone, you should be able to articulate a formula. I doubt you can.

Either way: why would a DM be a better judge of alignment than a player? That is nonsense. If you don't know my character as well as I do, how do you presume to know his appropriate alignment? A DM changing someone's alignment without consultation is a personal insult, and assertion of their supposed better knowledge. Certainly, if someone is way out of line the DMs can discuss the matter with the player and then come to a collective decision. That is quite different from an individual person summarily adjusting alignment according to his own limited interpretation. And in reality, that kind of DM discretion has rarely been practiced in Amia. It's for the better.

If you're going to start discussing alignments in the Forgotten Realms, you should start a new topic instead of spamming the General Questions thread.

666WaysToHell wrote:

If you're going to start discussing alignments in the Forgotten Realms, you should start a new topic instead of spamming the General Questions thread.

He isn't spamming, he is discussing a question that was asked. General Discussion -> General Questions.

Alignment is the will and self perception of the character manifested in an aura and soul. In my opinion it should be a sort of 'customer's always right' outlook, with exception for obvious bullshit. As for the alignments themselves, you can take it as conscious (character) or a subconscious (player) judgement, but they should be detectable part of the world.
No one sits around wondering what Bane is, Bane IS Lawful Evil. What can be considered Lawful Evil is up to the DM or the player in the case of PCs.

The best way I can compare alignment is to attributes. 14 Strength can be giving an absolute value with source books in form of carry weight, pushing, etc, but there are things that aren't covered (like appearances) and ways that you can use muscle creatively. It's really up to the player what 14 strength means besides being above the average human strength.

Is it intentional that the extended version of the custom cleric spell Haven lasts as long as the basic spell?

Yes. It was given as an option for spellbook flexibility only.

Oh does Haven actually work? I have no idea what it does, last time it came up it was apparently unfinished.

Haven works now. Or... worked when I tested it a couple weeks ago.

... what does it do? There's no entry for it in the Modified Spells list.

It applies a GS effect, allows the user to cast spells while under it as if under the effect of a Haste spell (2 spells/round) and lasts for 5 rounds, without the possibility of extending it.

Basically it eases up the excruciating pain of buffing as a cleric with no other access to haste.

Yeah, I announced it was finished a while back but forgot to add it to the Modified Spells topic, it seems. Corrected that now.

And you'll note the spell description itself says it can't be extended, so yeah, it's very much intentional.

Hey there. I'm wondering about the Epic Mummy Dust thing duration without the matching Epic focus spell to extend its duration.

Also, considering a certain deity, like Bane for example. By choosing Evocation, the matching school would be Elemental creature. Well of course we can't talk about its attributes to avoid looking for a powerful or cheese build, but I wonder for the sake of a pure cleric with crap AC. Could I get some advise about a reasonable Epic mummy dust for that type of low AC build ? I thank you.

It's turns/level. Considering most of your vital buffs also last turns/level, it's not that big of a deal to go without the focus, though it's certainly convenient.

It might be nice to have the creatures named and their general roles described in the sidebar, especially to help pick the right one for a reskin. They're all relatively vanilla as I understand, though, so I'm not sure if there's much more to say than "tank" and "dps" with some obvious resistance questions.

They are named, and it's listed in the sidebar.

Ohh right. I've seen that! I don't think they were named in the past when I was originally wondering about them.

Nah, they weren't. I updated the summons topic a little bit ago with more information.

Yeah.. Nevermind. Helps if I read.

I've been getting into character builds more lately then I usually am. Are there any builds that are actually forbidden here?

No, but you'll get a lot of flak for cheesy ones like palemaster/dragon disciples.

Casvenx wrote:

I've been getting into character builds more lately then I usually am. Are there any builds that are actually forbidden here?

Not outside obvious IC conflicts, anyhow. You probably should make a special request to play something like a Druid/Pale Master to explain why you shouldn't lose your Druid powers, but it isn't illegal to build it. Unless the DMs know what you're up to and agree it makes sense, they'll slap a Fall widget on you that takes away your divine powers.

IronAngel wrote:

Casvenx wrote:

I've been getting into character builds more lately then I usually am. Are there any builds that are actually forbidden here?

Not outside obvious IC conflicts, anyhow. You probably should make a special request to play something like a Druid/Pale Master to explain why you shouldn't lose your Druid powers, but it isn't illegal to build it. Unless the DMs know what you're up to and agree it makes sense, they'll slap a Fall widget on you that takes away your divine powers.

Is there a link/book to the lore involving elemental druids? The wiki says Kossuth/Grumbar/etc give out powers but I haven't found anything saying more than that.

I'm intending to make a couple of fancy DC requests, and i was wondering if the RP behind it must be something developed in game, or can it be an entirely background story?

One request is for a weapon, do i need to craft it or can i procure it by other means?

Second request is a custom feat, which basically combines two existing passive feats. Do i need to RP learning it, or a story of how the character developed it would suffice?

I want to say that both are (or at least were) accepted methods, but the former is the preferred one. RPing stuff out in game, maybe getting some other players involved and the likes.

Aeqvinox wrote:

I'm intending to make a couple of fancy DC requests, and i was wondering if the RP behind it must be something developed in game, or can it be an entirely background story?

One request is for a weapon, do i need to craft it or can i procure it by other means?

Second request is a custom feat, which basically combines two existing passive feats. Do i need to RP learning it, or a story of how the character developed it would suffice?

From my experience making requests, you might be in the best position to blend both in game roleplay and written stories. Background can be a good impetus, but what'll help it out honestly is in game roleplay where possible.

Screenies are a good aide for that process definitely, as is keepign a log of whom you RP'd with on the topic and summative notes.

Lastly: (again from personal experience) A story is good, but it does not need to be a long overarcing epic at the same time. IMHO, for the story of an item's creation any chance to involve fellow PCs in the fun is good and any chance for a DM to hook in or to pull influence from what has happened in DM events is also good.

An example: Tuomas' Anti-pyromantic cloud spell development came as the result of a friend of his who worked in Cordor's guard complaining about recent bomb attacks. He had been trying to develop a way to help reduce the damage of such in the future.. one of the things which happened as an ancillary result of that attack was fire.

In the RP, Tuomas had actually spoken with Ulrik who served as a mentor figure to him at the time, and found inspiration from Ulrik that shaped how the spell itself would take form.

Right, thanks for the tips.

So, i suppose i can craft the weapon on Amia then, it would actually make more sense according to character background, not to be bringing any weapons with her to the isle.

The feat however... is something she was developing over a long period of time, and arriving on Amia at the age of 30, she would already have it. It's practically a sixth sense (Nature Sense+Blind Fight) and she has honed it throughout her turbulent childhood and adolescence. It wouldn't make sense learning it on Amia, but i could include screenshots from situations where she uses it?

Also the weapon is something i can do at a later date anyway. I only have 10 DC's so i'll actually have to rely on writing a true epic about the feat, and hoping some kind souls contribute to the cost;]

I have two DC items. The one was "off amia" with how it came into possession. And the other was created in game. It involved roleplay with like 6 different players all contributing, so it was really awesome and it felt better.

Also the DMs like it more when you involve folks!

In the Cordor thread it was discussed what the population breakdown was. I am curious to know the socioeconomic breakdown. Jobwise, are people out of work. Do the poor have a realistic ability to work themselves into middle class. That sort of thing.

The monk ability that permits you to speak and understand all languages, is it permitted or does it need consent to be used? I know it is a pnp ability like detect evil, but with our language system as it is based off of INT or skill points am cloudy on the view of this.

Actually... i have to ask directly.

I have no experience in either the request customs, or the toolset abilities in this matter, so:

Is it possible to have a custom DC feat accepted/created, that combines two existing feats (Nature Sense and Blind Fight)?

Cause if not, i'm going to have to stop what i'm doing now, and change the RP i'm writing to Nature Sense alone or something...

I did a quick search for an official ruling and Tormak said it requires mutual consent. However, speaking in other languages is basically PNP as well (there's no NWN mechanics for it other than adding bracketed prefixes to your speech!), so I'd say you could just turn around and tell people they don't have your permission to speak in another language directly at you either, if they want to be butts. Rule #1: don't be a butt.

I should mention it's a method of communication, not spying. While you could listen to a conversation going on, you'd have to be in some way participating (IE they'd have to see you), otherwise I'd say that doesn't count as "communication."

Last edited by IronAngel on Mon, Mar 25 2013, 20:30 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Charles1810 wrote:

The monk ability that permits you to speak and understand all languages, is it permitted or does it need consent to be used? I know it is a pnp ability like detect evil, but with our language system as it is based off of INT or skill points am cloudy on the view of this.

We don't have any language rules and you technically need consent to even speak a foreign language; or rather, there's no requirement for anyone to feign ignorance when you type in plain English "(Elven) That man is smelly."

So yeah, using the monk ability doesn't really need consent given that the restrictions on languages known is already a PnP rule that would have required implicit consent.

Mind that the ability doesn't exactly let you speak or understand languages. It says:

Quote:

A monk of 17th level or higher can speak with any living creature.

That might imply language capability, but it's much more likely it means you are so wise and detached from the physical world that you can communicate directly by intuition, one soul to another. Not telepathy or anything like that, but simply you speaking your language and they speaking theirs, and both simply understand eachother. It probably doesn't apply to overheard conversations, and definitely not to written text.

EDIT: What CoA said. Damn ninja. Yeah, it might technically need consent but as argued, it's pretty irrelevant because there's nothing keeping you from understanding everything anyway.

Aeqvinox wrote:

Actually... i have to ask directly.

I have no experience in either the request customs, or the toolset abilities in this matter, so:

Is it possible to have a custom DC feat accepted/created, that combines two existing feats (Nature Sense and Blind Fight)?

Cause if not, i'm going to have to stop what i'm doing now, and change the RP i'm writing to Nature Sense alone or something...

I don't really see how that's balanced, for one... and for two, Blind-Fight isn't possible to add in a custom form.

Is it possible to save unused skill points from previous levels instead of spending them all when you level up every time?

Yes, it is entirely possible to do so in NWN.

slkNihilus wrote:

Yes, it is entirely possible to do so in NWN.

Yeah, it's NWN2 where you can't. I think you can hold back about 4 points on NWN2, all else have to be spent on taking a level up.

I really wish there was a way to NOT allow skill points to be held over through levels. It sorta kills the entire point of being a dedicated skillmonkey, when anyone else can match your expertise with a single level (in one or two ways, if not as broadly).

I agree, although I think since NWN has no method to emulate half ranks so no one would be able to put half a rank in a skill. That would be killer. Although we could get pretty close!

Master Scout questions

What is the definition of wilderness, any outside area?

On the crafting menu it has Potion of Muscles Essense (500gp) yet it takes 700 gold to create, what's the scoop?

What's a Master Scout???

Don't answer that question, but I kinda don't really know.

I think wilderness areas have to be marked as such in the toolset. I don't think that corresponds directly to a pure interior/exterior framework.

Murex wrote:

What's a Master Scout???

Don't answer that question, but I kinda don't really know.

...How could you not notice!? It came with the last hak update! And there are/were several threads dedicated to the class!

Tyris wrote:

What is the definition of wilderness, any outside area?

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Terrain_type

Thanks

Quote:

Death magic refers to spells or spell-like effects that attempt to directly kill the target. Many of these spells require the victim to make a fortitude save versus death magic. Undead and constructs, not being truly alive, are often immune to such spells.

These spells are defined as death magic by way of the spell's descriptor being listed as "death."

■Finger of death
■Circle of death
■Power word, kill
In addition, several monster abilities, like death gaze, are considered death magic.

Are these three spells the only type of 'death magic' spells, or are there more?

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