So, after reading through the section on Shadow Elves, I've noticed that it doesn't include anything on names or language (amoung other, smaller things). Now, I realize that their language would have originally been Elven, however, given the length of time they've lived seperately (long enough for them to evolve into what is essentially morlocks), their language would naturally have changed significantly. Not only that, but Elven itself would have changed, at least to a degree.

So, the question is, first, do Shadow Elves speak Elven? Undercommon? Do they have their own language?

Second, what sort of names do they have? How are they different from Elven names?

I'll see what I can find out for you.

It was more directed at the DMs who might know. I can't possibly see how a player would know these things, since they're not posted. >.>

As an aside to clarify for Carter, the Shadow Elf lore on amia is non-canon and not related in any way to any other lore on the beasties.

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Jys'zyne Do'larn

Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?

Quite so. After all the stuff about it, lately, I figured everyone was aware of that.

(Took out un-official information)

I'm afraid that's a load of bollocks, Coolplayer. You can't possibly have found that in any Forgotten Realms source, 2e or not, because Shadow Elves don't exist in the Forgotten Realms. They're purely an Amian creation, and all lore about them is homebrewn. Shadow Elf lore from other settings doesn't apply to Amia/FR any more than Snow White and the Seven Dwarves describes life in Citadel Adbar.

I'll say this once again: don't look for Shadow Elf lore anywhere but the Amia forums, in posts made by DMs or on the sidebar. Anything else is unofficial, even if it might inspire some.

I also got some questions from another player via PM, so maybe I'll tackle them both in this topic. Soon. If we can come up with a good-enough answer, perhaps it'll be edited into the original article.

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NM I just read that stuff is from a couple of writers who do home brew stuff.

Disclaimer: Everything I say about Shadow Elves will be a generalization, and the splintered nature of the race and their culture provides ample ground for the opposite examples.

About language: This depends on the community. Shadow elves often speak primarily Elven. "Shadow Elven" is a dialect, or more accurately a set of similar dialects, that resembles modern Elven just enough to be understandable to native Elven speakers and those well-versed in the language. Shadow Elves often believe their language is the purest form of original Elven, and revere and respect it. They despise surface Elven and Drow for having bastardized the once-proud speech into something unrecognizable. Ironically, though, it's their own language that's so far perverted that it resembles ancient Elven very little. This is due to them not having a literary culture to speak of, so everything from history to grammar is passed on by word of mouth. It's easily distorted through generations, but they don't know that.

It's also common for Shadow Elves to speak Undercommon. Many tribes have to deal with other races on a more or less semiregular basis, and this is the lingua franca of the Night Below. They have no need of learning drow (and are too proud to do that anyhow), because Undercommon will be enough everywhere in the Underdark.


About names: I don't want to restrict the players' creativity. Something resembling Elven and/or Drow is probably typical. Names borrowed from other Underdark races and languages wouldn't be terribly uncommon, either. Some of the more primitive, shamanistic tribes could even give descriptive names formed of adjectives and nouns, such as a warrior named Stands-as-Stalagmite.



Some would, some wouldn't. While they're haughty and xenophobic, they're also very pragmatic by necessity. It's important to remember that Shadow elves don't actually know their history, since they don't write history. Many tribes might still have an oral tradition of Drow being treacherous enemies, while others may have obscured that part over centuries of not seeing any Drow or having to deal with them peacefully.

It would hardly be wise to communicate with large Drow cities, especially Lolthite ones, as those would have no reason to deal peacefully with Shadow elves. However, it's already suggested in the article that they do occasionally work with outcast drow and even take to worshiping Vhaeraun or Ghaunadaur. I wouldn't rule Vhaeraunian communities of both Drow and Shadow Elves out of the realm of possibility, though it'd be quite unique. Then again, some tribes would be fanatic enemies of the Drow. It depends, but the stereotypical Shadow elf personality would value survival more than principles against Drow.



They're not just evil. As you can see in the article in R&L, the typical alignments are True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral and Neutral Evil. Chaotic Evil and Lawful Evil are unusual, though so is good.

They may have thought they were doing the right thing, but they allied with Ilythiiri for power and turned to worship dark deities and fiends for the same reason. Their sense of right and wrong is obscured and twisted by millenia of lies and hard life. They may think they're the noble and true Elven people, but that doesn't make them leaving weak tribe members to die in the Underdark, them slaying surface elves because of tradition or them eating whatever they can find, surely including svirfneblin in dire times, any more objectively Good.

Their goal is survival. It's surely not Evil, but it's not Good either. I'd say it's amoral, because it's the nature of every sentinent being. Objectively speaking, they don't tend to have actually noble or good intentions, even if they don't view their grim actions as evil. Good and Evil exist, even if they might not realize it.



I'd not call the Drow a superpower of the Underdark. They have a lot of influence in some areas, such as the surroundings of mighty Menzoberranzan. Outside their cities, though, they're a fairly weak race. Shadow elves who spend all their time in the wild Underdark, hunting for food and avoiding predators much more dangerous than the Drow, are certainly more "Underdark-wise" than the civilized city-dwelling Drow who spend their time with politics, parties, wine, sex, schemes, murder, training and worship.

Furthermore, the stereotype of a typical Shadow elf community, a small and mobile tribe of 10-30 individuals, isn't something easily conquered. It's not a city or nation you can invade. Once you happen upon the tribe and go home to prepare for war, they've probably moved on by the time you come back with an army. And then there's the vital question: why would Drow even care about a pack of savage hunters and gatherers who pose no threat to their city or their faith?

And yes, it's probably also a matter of them rarely bumping into eachother. The Drow population isn't terribly dense in many parts of the Underdark, as it's centered around their cities. Shadow Elves, on the other hand, number about 2000. If the average community size is 20, that means 100 different communites throughout the Underdark. It's a lot. When one gets slaughtered by some enemy, it doesn't take all too many decades for a new one to have formed from survivors and the population growth of other tribes.


I'm too lazy to spellcheck now, I'll come back to read and edit later. I hope these answers satisfy. Feel free to critisize and question. While they may be/become canon, the truth is I just pulled them out of my arse either right now or based on what I'd planned in the past.

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Based on my own ruminations as to what "works", I'd have to say that I support Iron's concepts in this matter.

I too researched some of the internet available stuff, not because I thought I'd apply it to Amian S.Elves, but rather, to see if there were any concepts that might fill the gaps in the Amian lore on them. Most of the stuff I found overall tended to jive with Amian "lore".

Though I think they'd likely not view Drow as evil, so much as "Not Shadow Elves", and would maintain awareness that Drow have much the same "Not drow" style of thinking. Aka - both are xenophobic. The difference being, Shadow elves know they don't have huge numbers like the drow, and are more pragmatic in their survivalist ideals, over the Drow lust-for-power ideals. Aka - the drow are somewhat xenocidal, not just xenophobic, whereas the Shadow Elves would be completely NOT xenocidal.

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Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!

Oi, don't forget Duergar, they may be miniscual in comparison to there once greatness, but the are still to be contented with. Even if the Amian NPC's kinda disgrace the Duergar culture.

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I keels u with my axe!

"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"

I didn't "forget" Duergar. I even mentioned them elsewhere in the post. The question was about the threat Drow pose to Shadow elves, and how the Shadow elves deal with it. Duergar don't have a lot to do with the answer to such a question, do they?

The real superpowers of the Underdark, the ones you really don't want to cross, are neither Duergar nor Drow, though. They're much more ancient, much more sinister and much more powerful. The honour goes to races like the Aboleths, the Beholders and the Illithids. Even they have their own limited territories, though. No race or civilization holds hegemony over the entire Underdark, which is a vast, multi-layered and untamed world of its own. Just like Cormyr, Thay, Halruaa, Sembia, the Silver Marches, the Kingdom of Many-Arrows, Amn, Calimshan and Waterdeep have huge local infuenced but have no hopes of controlling all of Faerûn even with their combined might, a few scattered if powerful Drow and Duergar cities don't come close to ruling the Underdark.

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A bit shameful those ancient and sinister forces are easily killed on Amia by a bunch of epics, but so is the Abyss. The easy grinding of those ultimate powerful creatues from the FR is a mocking desecration imho.

Even for Amian scales, a bunch of epics should have a border not able to cross. The only thing that can kill a munchkin party is a divine avatar.

Well, the Illithid are a bit of a joke on Amia (compared to PCs) but...their boss is no pushover.

However, the Beholders on Amia now kill many, many parties...as it should be.

As for shadow elven names, I took my PC's name as a kind of cross between elven and drow in style (on purpose).

Pity we don't have Aboleth's on Amia...they're -scary-....it was what I rp'ed as Elithiel's master until I was told that wasn't allowed. I still don't quite see why a Blackguard can RP having a Demon master and yet a shadow elf can't do the same with an Aboleth but anyway, I'm going by the ruling...

The Underdark is very much an alien place with alien mindsets, where 90% of it is cavern after cavern with a million crevasses and stalagmites to hide behind. There are whole oceans and lakes there, volcanoes even and much more...it's perfect for a bunch of moving hidden shadow elven tribes that tend to specialise in stealth and deadly ambushes...

Also, the lore states that Shadow Elves will often 'ally' or trade with svirfneblin or duergar, so racial relations aren't all hostile. Of course, I imagine most of what they do is hunter/gatherer activity but given their still high skills in magic and their propensity for assassin PrC, that translates as Shadow Elves being above average intelligence for most members of a given tribe and thus, smarter than many other races who might think of hunting them. That is, they can usually outsmart their opponents.

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Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

PM box, read it, you haz them

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham