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Add Epic Summons Info to Sidebar
https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33508		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Dervish [ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 17:28 PM ]
Post subject:  Add Epic Summons Info to Sidebar
As the Epic Summons have been modified on Amia, it's impossible to know what they do, making it difficult to know which one to pick for my caster's summons.

Could their stats, feats and any special abilities be added to the description in their listing on the Summons sidebar or listed -somewhere-.

The summon's shape can be changed with a reskin, but its abilities can't be changed, and that affect its use, so it's important to know.
Author:  Terra_777 [ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 17:55 PM ]
Post subject: 
Actually...

Spells that has been pimped;

Blackstaff;

adds vampy reg and onhit dispel, works on all melee weaponry.

Holysword;

Gives all the itemproperties that holyavenger gives, but scales dispel

Death domain summon:

It has six stages now with a friggin' monster in the end.
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 17:59 PM ]
Post subject: 
Wow, when was black staff altered? Thats great. Please tell me that its at least +3 vamp regen. The effect is buggy enough as it is...
Author:  Terra_777 [ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 18:00 PM ]
Post subject: 
1 - 5 vampy reg CL scaled.
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 18:02 PM ]
Post subject: 
Sweet!
Author:  Terra_777 [ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 18:05 PM ]
Post subject: 
*Hides under a table as the blackstaffomania starts*

It also gives scaled dispel maxes at DC 26 at CL 26... and it gives evil VFX.

Though I think i'm nerfing it to caster-only as I didnt know it was castable on others.
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 18:47 PM ]
Post subject: 
Noooo, that's just what all the palidhooms want! Seriously though. Being able to cast it on others isnt overpowering.
Author:  Uncle-Opustus [ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 20:09 PM ]
Post subject: 
Still rounds lasting?
Author:  Terra_777 [ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 20:54 PM ]
Post subject: 
Turns or two rounds/CL, not sure. I can check later.
Author:  Jaqueline [ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 21:28 PM ]
Post subject: 
Terra_777 wrote:
Blackstaff;

adds vampy reg and onhit dispel, works on all melee weaponry.



I tried Blackstaff recently on a Staff of the Master and it doesn't seem to work on those kinds of staves
Author:  Maverick00053 [ Sun, Dec 14 2008, 21:46 PM ]
Post subject: 
Terra_777 wrote:
*Hides under a table as the blackstaffomania starts*

It also gives scaled dispel maxes at DC 26 at CL 26... and it gives evil VFX.

Though I think i'm nerfing it to caster-only as I didnt know it was castable on others.


=O! *Jumps up and down like a little girl crying for Khylaria* I need to rebuild Shannies spells!!!! Nows! Uber Battlemage >.<
Author:  Khylaria [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 0:13 AM ]
Post subject: 
>.>
Author:  Uncle-Opustus [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 14:43 PM ]
Post subject: 
And I think that Blackstaff should only work with staves. They would get some loving attention as well that way, since they're the greatest weapons right after clubs.
Author:  Aniril [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 15:41 PM ]
Post subject: 
lol... go banshee spell *nod nod*
Author:  Dervish [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 16:25 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Add Epic Summons Info to Summons Sidebar
Dervish wrote:
As the Epic Summons have been modified on Amia, it's impossible to know what they do, making it difficult to know which one to pick for my caster's summons.

Could their stats, feats and any special abilities be added to the description in their listing on the Summons sidebar or listed -somewhere-....


Just to get this thread back on topic....
Author:  Dev Disco [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 17:48 PM ]
Post subject: 
Anyone in for a little task?

Download the summons page, update it (not with Word or Frontpage or whatever poop code generators you can think of, but simply by good old source code edits), and send it to me. I'll upload it and the Summons will be available for browsing.
Author:  belgianbonzai [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 19:07 PM ]
Post subject: 
stats feats and special abilities don't need to be added, imo.
Just the fact hey've been changed is enough.

There's no stats for the other summons either, and they've been changed too.
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 20:36 PM ]
Post subject: 
True, I agree. Though Gate should come with a warning. Dont use if you are lawful evil.
Author:  Dervish [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 20:53 PM ]
Post subject: 
belgianbonzai wrote:
stats feats and special abilities don't need to be added, imo.
Just the fact hey've been changed is enough.

There's no stats for the other summons either, and they've been changed too.


You get to -choose- an Epic Summons (in my case, only one of them), whereas all the other summons are standard, you get what's given.

I can test the EDK and Mummy Dust on my own and get an idea of which I like better. But if they've been significantly changed, that info is useless. I think the Mummy Dust isn't even called that here, so I have no idea at all what it can do.

It's an important choice, and the best choices are made with the fullest and most complete info.
Author:  belgianbonzai [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 22:00 PM ]
Post subject: 
Dervish wrote:
You get to -choose- an Epic Summons (in my case, only one of them), whereas all the other summons are standard, you get what's given.

I can test the EDK and Mummy Dust on my own and get an idea of which I like better. But if they've been significantly changed, that info is useless. I think the Mummy Dust isn't even called that here, so I have no idea at all what it can do.

It's an important choice, and the best choices are made with the fullest and most complete info.


Sorcerers have to choose too ;) even if they can swap again every sorc level.

Besides, that you only get to choose 1 epic summon is your builds fault/strength.
And... releveling 1 level isn't THAT hard... just dump your summon on some spawns, read the battle log and you have the info, then you can still decide, sort of in character even.

The dragon is still a dragon
The mummy dust is still undead
Why would you need more info?
Author:  Kirri [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 22:17 PM ]
Post subject: 
belgianbonzai wrote:
Dervish wrote:
You get to -choose- an Epic Summons (in my case, only one of them), whereas all the other summons are standard, you get what's given.

I can test the EDK and Mummy Dust on my own and get an idea of which I like better. But if they've been significantly changed, that info is useless. I think the Mummy Dust isn't even called that here, so I have no idea at all what it can do.

It's an important choice, and the best choices are made with the fullest and most complete info.


Sorcerers have to choose too ;) even if they can swap again every sorc level.

Besides, that you only get to choose 1 epic summon is your builds fault/strength.
And... releveling 1 level isn't THAT hard... just dump your summon on some spawns, read the battle log and you have the info, then you can still decide, sort of in character even.

The dragon is still a dragon
The mummy dust is still undead
Why would you need more info?

Would that additional info hurt anyone ?
I think LE Clerics/Sorcs/Wizards have a right to know that their Gate summon would be utterly useless, same goes for CE blackguards.
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 23:06 PM ]
Post subject: 
I have a CE blackguard...is it really that poo poo compared to the NE and LE??
Author:  Aniril [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 23:29 PM ]
Post subject: 
BG summons

LE = Amnizu bodyguard... mostly a tanker 44 AC

NE = Can't remember but shouldn't be good

CE = cant remember... Sneaker with hide and such.

really depends on situation


i would say LE... but that depends on how ytou wanna play your char
Author:  Maverick00053 [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 23:38 PM ]
Post subject: 
Aniril wrote:
BG summons

LE = Amnizu bodyguard... mostly a tanker 44 AC

NE = Can't remember but shouldn't be good

CE = cant remember... Sneaker with hide and such.

really depends on situation


i would say LE... but that depends on how ytou wanna play your char


Whoo! I am so happy you can make such a good descision on alignment based off a single biase choice! Woot! >.< Seriously, you cant give advice on summons when you know of... one.
Author:  BrainSplitter [ Mon, Dec 15 2008, 23:38 PM ]
Post subject: 
Grab what fits your RP; Not your lust for statistical brilliance.

[/input]
Author:  Dervish [ Tue, Dec 16 2008, 0:47 AM ]
Post subject: 
Please read the OP before posting to avoid cluttering the thread with useless commentary posts.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Dec 16 2008, 6:40 AM ]
Post subject: 
WonWon wrote:
Grab what fits your RP; Not your lust for statistical brilliance.

[/input]


That said, the CE book fiend is aboslutely worthless and the CE gate is the worst one, not the LE fiend.
Author:  Carter [ Tue, Dec 16 2008, 7:34 AM ]
Post subject: 
TormakSaber wrote:
WonWon wrote:
Grab what fits your RP; Not your lust for statistical brilliance.

[/input]


That said, the CE book fiend is aboslutely worthless and the CE gate is the worst one, not the LE fiend.


They should be brought to a roughly similar level, then! When one thing is far more powerful than another, it's always going to cause people for forgo RP for power. I'm guilty of it, myself. BG summons are an easy enough thing to balance, I think.
Author:  Pony [ Tue, Dec 16 2008, 13:30 PM ]
Post subject: 
---
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Dec 16 2008, 19:58 PM ]
Post subject: 
Ugh, the Fiend of Fire and Shadow.

Grandfathered summon from a grandfathered book you'll never get because we don't hand it out anymore. Sorry.

No info is needed because it won't appear.

For the sake of RP, it's Neutral Evil, a Yugoloth.
Author:  herkles [ Tue, Dec 16 2008, 21:36 PM ]
Post subject: 
just for curiosity's sake what skin does the fiend of fire and shadow use? I want to know what it looks like.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Dec 16 2008, 21:57 PM ]
Post subject: 
A balor.
Author:  Maverick00053 [ Tue, Dec 16 2008, 22:19 PM ]
Post subject: 
TormakSaber wrote:
A balor.


=( I miss the old balor you use to have to pay 5k gold for >.> Even know it was totally overpowered and I soloed giants with it because of its VoralWhatNot Blade. Or the White Slaad... good old Greater ruin.
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Tue, Dec 16 2008, 23:48 PM ]
Post subject: 
What a nice little gold sink that was. Good times
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 10:05 AM ]
Post subject: 
As a side note, I decided to test the raw, awesome pwnage of my level 24 LE, collosal pit fiend (which cancels GS by the way because its so overwhelmingly powerful).

Round 1: It was able to take down a pack of winter wolves (i was most impressed when their cold breath was doing only single figures worth of damge). I was thinking to myself "oooh, maybe ive underestimated this bad boy.

My feelings of awe were however, sadly short lived as my denizen of hell or where ever I gated his sorry rear-end from progressed to get his butt sorely tanned by a bunch of ground dodos. What was even worse was that he didnt even manage take down one of them. By contrast, I have seen the Solar pwn the FGK.

In conclusion, and to make this post relate to the OP...info like this really should be on the side bar
Author:  Galenson [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 10:40 AM ]
Post subject: 
Summons aren't supposed to solo the world, they're supposed to support the character. Looking back over the last year, I was pissed at the time but I'm glad all the really powerful summons got gutted in some form. The way I see it if the character is too heavily dependant on their CL 27+ planetar or their CL 28+ death domain summon or their EDK and a dominated creature ontop of that then they're just compensating too much.

Then again... all sorceror characters compensate too much. Cheez mongers! :P

None-the-less, I agree and disagree with the original poster. I agree that people should be notified that epic summons (and cleric/BG level based monsters etc.) have been altered (which has already been done in most cases) but that's all that really needs to be said. Why?

1) You have the Amiawiki which is easy to edit and keeps the website sidebar clean of unneccessary info.

2) Where's the surprise or the dissapointment of spending all that effort getting these summons to finally realise they're a nuclear bomb or a nuclear flop if you're already being spoon-fed what to expect?
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 11:04 AM ]
Post subject: 
Never said they were dude, just I expected my pit fiend to put up a better fight against a bunch of flightless birds.

Level 24 GATE....6 dodos.

The Good aligned gate would have owned that spawn...or at least taken down one - thats all im saying. Im not bitter or annoyed, im just saying. Im not saying that there shouldnt be any difference between the summons, difference is healthy. It becomes unhealthy when there's such a huge gap in the relative strengths of the summons. In that respect, yes I would be a little dissappointed if the summon i worked so hard to acquire in the case of the BG, turned out to be a nuclear flop.

And yes its not bad being spoon fed what to expect. Ok here's an analogy for you. You want to go out and buy a car. Now do you just go down to the local garage without having even thought about which car you want to buy, without doing even a smidgen of research at all and to top it all off, wearing a blind fold. Or do you take that blind fold off, do a little research on the net first, ask the sales guy there, looks at the specs etc etc.
Author:  HellScourge [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 11:26 AM ]
Post subject: 
TormakSaber wrote:
For the sake of RP, it's Neutral Evil, a Yugoloth.


My char should meet with that person then and talk some to get into contact with her yugoloth side.
Author:  Uberuce [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 11:29 AM ]
Post subject: 
Fine, fine, point taken. I'll nerf the Planetar.
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 11:35 AM ]
Post subject: 
Or make the evil gates better. You only get the bad boy for 2 rounds per level after all. It should be able to lay the smack down for a couple of mins or so.
Author:  ClockworkRed [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 11:46 AM ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, nerf the EDK instead. *runs*
Author:  Uberuce [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 12:16 PM ]
Post subject: 
I'll trim down their damage and AB while I'm at it, yus.
Author:  maglorine [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 13:45 PM ]
Post subject: 
I'd like to thank everyone here for their nerfing suggestions and kindly ask you to back away from your keyboards now before your Summons IX has the ferocity and combat abilities of the ubiquitous Western Grey Ground Squirrel

Image
Author:  Terra_777 [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 14:57 PM ]
Post subject: 
For the sake of sanity, change model on the Efreeti... its current model is like bugged to the moon and back.
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 15:00 PM ]
Post subject: 
Well, the pit fiend had an AB of 30 or so last time I looked. The western grey ground squirrel might actually take it. 2 squirrels and their probably a shooin for victory.
Author:  StandingBehindYou [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 15:38 PM ]
Post subject: 
Galenson wrote:
Summons aren't supposed to solo the world, they're supposed to support the character. Looking back over the last year, I was pissed at the time but I'm glad all the really powerful summons got gutted in some form. The way I see it if the character is too heavily dependant on their CL 27+ planetar or their CL 28+ death domain summon or their EDK and a dominated creature ontop of that then they're just compensating too much.


But I want to play a pokemon trainer! :(

Quote:
2) Where's the surprise or the dissapointment of spending all that effort getting these summons to finally realise they're a nuclear bomb or a nuclear flop if you're already being spoon-fed what to expect?


I don't think that's the kind of surprise that's desirable.
Author:  Terra_777 [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 15:44 PM ]
Post subject: 
Its pokémon SLAVER... not trainer. Sheesh.
Author:  Maverick00053 [ Wed, Dec 17 2008, 21:06 PM ]
Post subject: 
Uberuce wrote:
I'll trim down their damage and AB while I'm at it, yus.


O.O *Clings* I wuv you.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Thu, Dec 18 2008, 7:18 AM ]
Post subject: 
Uberuce wrote:
Fine, fine, point taken. I'll nerf the Planetar.


Overall, every evil summon is weaker than the good summon equivalent.

Neutrals ride the wave up and down.
Author:  Mahtan [ Thu, Dec 18 2008, 7:28 AM ]
Post subject: 
Hmm. I always thought the Silver Dragon was the worst. My Shade killed one <.< When a Red Dragon just gets very bad STR drainage.
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