Wow, imagine that.
Random-ness in a game dominated by..
random die rolls.
*shrugs*
Sound like it's working as intended... some people stabilize.. some don't.
Regards,
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| Stabalizing: Is there a point? https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34626 |
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| Author: | Selvec Darkon [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 16:11 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Stabalizing: Is there a point? |
Okay, so I noticed today that no longer do monsters stop attacking you when you stabalize, or got into that mode of slow death, but you actually get attacked still, even when you do stabalize and are all alone with no party members to continue the agro. Now, is there any point to having Stabalizing? I'm a little confused, it seems like something thats a great idea, but doesn't seem to be doing what it should anymore. Am I missing something? How does Stabalising work? Are the monsters meant to stop attacking if you go into slow death alone? Is there a point to the system? Just a few questions I'd like answered if possiable. |
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| Author: | Dakotaen [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 16:13 PM ] |
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Odd. When I got splattered up at the giants earlier today, they left me alone when I was dying. |
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| Author: | Leggomi Eggolas [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 16:17 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
It's how it works in 3.0, except normally monsters will cease attacking an unconscious foe. Perhaps something can be done to alleviate this? |
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| Author: | Selvec Darkon [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 16:22 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Leggomi Eggolas wrote: It's how it works in 3.0, except normally monsters will cease attacking an unconscious foe. Perhaps something can be done to alleviate this?
It's happened a few times to me when facing goblin as a lowbie, or other area's on A-mia. Been happening for a long while actually, always assumed it to be some new rule since nobody else made any complaints. |
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| Author: | Phantom-D [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 16:23 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Also it seems you still have quite a bit of AC and monsters are "missing" an unconscious foe. Kind of weird I guess. Then again natural AC and magic can explain that. |
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| Author: | Carter [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 16:49 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
It seems to be pretty random, really. Sometimes, they stop attacking you, while other times they don't. It's completely unpredictable. I'd really like it if they would stop, though. The whole dead/dying thing is supposed to serve the purpose of giving allies time to heal you, or get you someplace safe at least. On NWN, it just means you can't heal while they do damage. |
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| Author: | blackvswhite [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 16:57 PM ] |
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yes. it is very random whether they attack or not. idk why they would continue beating/stabbing an unconcious body... it is very frustrating... expecially with a party. they should at least get everyone unconcious before making sure they aren't coming back |
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| Author: | Leggomi Eggolas [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 17:28 PM ] |
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The other problem in general, is that much past Kobolds, It's highly unlikely that you'll be hit to between 0 and -9. you're normally sent well past -10 with a single hit in any event. |
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| Author: | blackvswhite [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 17:51 PM ] |
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it only goes to -9? It should increase based on your health. 5 + 10% of your total health or something |
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| Author: | Leggomi Eggolas [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 18:01 PM ] |
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blackvswhite wrote: it only goes to -9? It should increase based on your health. 5 + 10% of your total health or something
"onplayerdying" I think is a fixed event in NWN that triggers when a player is between -10 and 0 HP. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 19:42 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
It's also a pretty concrete DnD rule. >.> |
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| Author: | Cori [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 20:12 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
It is rather random as to whether the monsters will stop attacking you. Part of it seems to be based on them finishing their current action/round, so if they are just about to attack when you die, that action completes before they stop. Sometimes, it seems like the "about to trigger" action, of attacking, seems to override the command to "stop attacking", and it's like they miss the instruction, so they keep attacking. I find it useful even at higher (but pre-epic) levels, because while it may not happen *often*, that you land in the 0 to -9 range, it *does* still happen sometimes, and it is a very nice bonus when it does. Especially with regen. <3 regen. I'd rather it work that no blow "kill" you completely (short of like, a dev crit, or death magic), but that it always put you intoa "bleed to death" phase, giving allies that one last chance to save you before you bite it completely. But I know that won't happen - I just think it'd be nice if it did work that way. |
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| Author: | Yossarin [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 20:23 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
It pretty much happens to me all the time. Anytime I go down they don't stop attacking. I've always just assumed that my PC has a fresh-faced spark of life to him. Even when dead. |
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| Author: | Colapops [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 21:14 PM ] |
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And I've seen you go down, Yossarin. A lot. Can we fix this bug so Yoss stops getting so dehydrated? I don't want him to keep getting sick. |
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| Author: | Gunz [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 21:27 PM ] |
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Yeah, I've experienced that it's pretty random also. Sometimes they stomp the crap out of me, sometimes they leave me alone. |
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| Author: | Moridan_X [ Sat, Jan 24 2009, 22:11 PM ] |
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they like to attack dead bodies |
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| Author: | Selvec Darkon [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 1:32 AM ] |
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TormakSaber wrote: It's also a pretty concrete DnD rule. >.>
I guess sometimes DnD rules need to be put aside for the over all enjoyment of the game? Though in this case it seem's like the rule doesn't even come into play 80% of the time. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 2:27 AM ] |
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Incdentally that happens in PnP, too. |
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| Author: | Zanthair [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 4:45 AM ] |
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i love stabilization, expecially if i get killed via spell. Then they hardly ever attack me, and regen keeps me from actually dying. Also, i've run around a corner as I turned it to get out of range, i died from the mindflayer boss's special attack, but it put me at -8, regen keeping me alive long enough for it to fully get me up, cast heal, go into GS, put out a gate and save the ass of my party member, while we turned tail and ran. |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 5:18 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
I hate it when they continue to attack while you're stabilising. It is annoying and defeats the point of stabilising. It just seems so random about whether they decide to take the time to kill you or not. |
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| Author: | FA_Frey_XC [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 5:42 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Wow, imagine that. Random-ness in a game dominated by.. random die rolls. *shrugs* Sound like it's working as intended... some people stabilize.. some don't.
Regards, |
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| Author: | Guxx [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 5:52 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Stabilizing is for pvp... because there's nothing cooler then a guy knocked to -8 hp stabilizing and getting back up to win it. |
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| Author: | ticket [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 6:19 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Is it possible to make the threshold hp for stabilizing... for example to -100? 
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| Author: | RigorIYIortis [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 6:30 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
it should be -10 +con modifier |
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| Author: | ticket [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 6:31 AM ] |
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RigorIYIortis wrote: it should be -10 +con modifier Or Fort save?
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 6:33 AM ] |
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FA_Frey_XC wrote: Wow, imagine that.
Random-ness in a game dominated by.. random die rolls. *shrugs* Sound like it's working as intended... some people stabilize.. some don't. :) Regards, I thought it was te buggy sort of random, not the 'roll to see if they continue to maul your fallen body' kind of random |
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| Author: | FA_Frey_XC [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 6:59 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
I've not experienced it, because Frey doesn't die. He also doesn't go shopping much. But honestly, it sounds from just the tone of this thread that it's working. Some people see it, some don't. Some see it all the time, some never do. Certainly, all joking and BS aside, I am not one to discourage the devs to take away from the countless other things they are trying to get done to look into the scripting that Disco just overhauled not but around 6 months ago and see if there's a screw loose. But, it seems to me that it certainly looks random. Perhaps we could engage in some actual testing, and report such in the "Things to Change" forum first, to see if something is actually broke before suggesting changes that would - again - burn more dev time on something that is pretty trivial , IMHO. Of course that could be because Frey doesn't die, that's it trivial in my mind. I dunno. Regards, |
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| Author: | xordae [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 7:10 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
From my experience the chance of stabilizing goes up when the level of the monsters goes down. They don't do as much damage, thus creating more possibilities for non-lethal knockout in the first place. Kinda makes sense IC that way, too. What the monsters do when they see you drop has always been random. |
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| Author: | Athyonn Ursidae [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 9:53 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
In answer to the original post question, yes there is a point to it. I know it doesnt always work out right, but when you do stabilise it always feels like its my lucky day to save me from having to respawn 
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| Author: | RigorIYIortis [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 22:21 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
I can honestly say I can count on one hand how many times I've seen someone in a party stabilize without the use of outside healing. I can also count on one hand how many times any of my characters have stabilized going solo without the spawns continuing to attack the fallen body. I suggest when a character falls below 0 hit points and no other hostiles (pcs) be in the immediate area, the attackers should cease attacking or maybe despawn immediately. Further it makes sense that if a character is at exactly 0 hit points they are automatically stabilized on a fortitude save. If they are at -1 or below they get a fortitude save at every subsequent bleeding point loss to a maximum of -10 modified by a bonus/penalty due to Constitution. The DC of the save is a base of 10 +1 for every -1 of blood loss. ie: Bob the 2nd level Fighter has a Con of 18 giving him a bonus of +4. Bob gets in combat with a patrol of kobolds and gets knocked down to exactly 0 hit points. The kobolds then pleased with themselves, leave him to rot, walk away (despawn) and he gets a fortitude save DC 10 to stabilize or start bleeding. Lets say Bob has an unlucky streak is bleeding, -1 hit point per round and he continues to fail his fortitude saves for 12 more rounds. Bob is now at -13 and the DC of the save is now 23. His save is successful and he stabilizes and begins to heal again until he reaches 1 hit point and can then make an action like drinking a heal potion or applying a bandage (in relative safety as the spawns are gone) Now lets use the same example but with Rizzo the 2nd level Elven Rogue whom has a Con of 6 and a fortitude penalty of -2. Once Rizzo reaches -8 hit points he has but one more fortitude save at a DC of 18 or he dies from bleeding. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sun, Jan 25 2009, 23:13 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
No. You die at -10. This is... even hardcoded, I think. |
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| Author: | Sakkran [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 0:01 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
And furthermore, from what I understand, it's a flat ten percent chance to stabilize. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. It's been a long time since I've done PnP, though. |
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| Author: | Carter [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 0:16 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Sakkran wrote: And furthermore, from what I understand, it's a flat ten percent chance to stabilize. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. It's been a long time since I've done PnP, though.
It is, which is sort of dumb. It should be a Fort Save. |
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| Author: | Craig deathwalker [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 0:30 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Adding just 1 regen to your character works some wonders, if left for dead just wait till you stabalize then pop up drink heal potion. It only takes 1 regen
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| Author: | Moridan_X [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 0:58 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
pray that you get lucky when taken to 0. hard-coded? maybe, take note on unmodded servers when you die, your hp zips right to negative 10. |
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| Author: | Sakkran [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 1:09 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Carter wrote: Sakkran wrote: And furthermore, from what I understand, it's a flat ten percent chance to stabilize. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. It's been a long time since I've done PnP, though. It is, which is sort of dumb. It should be a Fort Save. I could just as easily say that a Fort Save is dumb too, Carter. Being left for dead sometimes works in your favor, and sometimes, you get the rough part of the deal- Dying. I've always thought of it as luck and circumstances. Be that as it may, rules are rules, and from what I understand, it's hardcoded. |
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| Author: | blackvswhite [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 1:47 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
whatever the case about the -10, it should be made sure of that they stop attacking. if despawn is the only way, then don't bother. despawn would be ridiculous IC, as it always seems to be, IMHO. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 1:49 AM ] |
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I see no reason why a monster wouldn't *make sure you're dead*. |
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| Author: | Sakkran [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 1:51 AM ] |
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If a person's worse stabbing once, they're worth stabbing twice. I've never seen a point in monsters -not- finishing off a threat. |
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| Author: | blackvswhite [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 2:02 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
its funny when they miss.... almost as funny as when you miss bashing a chest or door... |
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| Author: | FA_Frey_XC [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 3:24 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
But the miss doesn't necessarily mean they "missed", it just means the attack was ineffectual. When I DM, as well as most of the DM's I've had the pleasure of playing under, I usually don't call a miss a real 'miss', otherwise you'd have a lot of air fanning going on in close battles. Remember that AC consists of many things, Armour your wearing, dexterity, etc... so missing may mean the blade hit a faceted angle of the armour and deflected, or the cured and padded leather absorbed most of the impact from the mace, rendering the rest moot. Plus, if you think about it, this opens up a lot more for your imagination. Regards, |
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| Author: | RigorIYIortis [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 3:52 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
In regards to not receiving a "hit" I've always broken down the AC to the point that the armor deflects some attacks, some are dodged and the ones that hit, you roll location, it penetrates the armor and then the armor makes a save or takes damage in that location. Makes pc armorers and weaponsmiths actually useful. |
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| Author: | FA_Frey_XC [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 4:21 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
RigorIYIortis wrote: In regards to not receiving a "hit" I've always broken down the AC to the point that the armor deflects some attacks, some are dodged and the ones that hit, you roll location, it penetrates the armor and then the armor makes a save or takes damage in that location. Makes pc armorers and weaponsmiths actually useful.
I'd probably enjoy playing a campaign with you if you were the DM.
Nice. Regards, |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 5:15 AM ] |
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FA_Frey_XC wrote: RigorIYIortis wrote: In regards to not receiving a "hit" I've always broken down the AC to the point that the armor deflects some attacks, some are dodged and the ones that hit, you roll location, it penetrates the armor and then the armor makes a save or takes damage in that location. Makes pc armorers and weaponsmiths actually useful. I'd probably enjoy playing a campaign with you if you were the DM. :) Nice. Regards, I'd just make sure the take the round to coup de grace you =D |
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| Author: | Selvec Darkon [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 5:23 AM ] |
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I have no idea what you lot are on about lol. When I started the thread, I expected people to discuss if the stabalizing system is worth even having, considering most of the time you get attack even once your dead, making the systems mearly pretty numbers that delay death by a few seconds. Even when you do stabalize, you rarely have the time to regan before a monster kills you once your down. No idea how this got into matters of AC and such. |
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| Author: | HellScourge [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 8:52 AM ] |
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Craig deathwalker wrote: Adding just 1 regen to your character works some wonders, if left for dead just wait till you stabalize then pop up drink heal potion. It only takes 1 regen
Not really, I once had the fun of dying spontanously. I was at -5 Hp, lsot 1 Hp, regged one, and so on and on. I lay there for sort of 3 minutes and suddenly I am drop dead for no reason. *shrugs* 2 Regen is better than that. |
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| Author: | Uberuce [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 10:08 AM ] |
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Pretty sure it's a Fort save with a low DC, but at ultralowbie on a mage or Rogue, you could easily fail many times in a row. Anyway, I say leave the system alone since it's nice to be nice to ultralowbies. If your party is awake, they'll run over and Healkit you before you kark it, even with a goblin or two having at you. |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 10:24 AM ] |
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HellScourge wrote: Craig deathwalker wrote: Adding just 1 regen to your character works some wonders, if left for dead just wait till you stabalize then pop up drink heal potion. It only takes 1 regen :D Not really, I once had the fun of dying spontanously. I was at -5 Hp, lsot 1 Hp, regged one, and so on and on. I lay there for sort of 3 minutes and suddenly I am drop dead for no reason. *shrugs* 2 Regen is better than that. Didn't Disco implement that to stop you from being 'stuck' on negative health for hours and not having the option to respawn? |
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| Author: | Dev Disco [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 10:29 AM ] |
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I sure tried to! |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Mon, Jan 26 2009, 14:44 PM ] |
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It worked. "I lay there for sort of 3 minutes and suddenly I am drop dead for no reason. *shrugs* " The "drop dead for no reason" was the fix, I believe, since the idea was sif you've laid that long, rescue probably isn't forthcoming and you then die. |
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