We've changed a major server rule regarding adult RP, or RP that has previously required the consent of two or more above 18-year old players and must have been done on the tell channel. Please read the following.
The website and module rules will be updated as soon as possible. The current ruling is as stated below, and the previous rules may be disregarded.
Nekhy wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cybering & Torture, aka Adult RP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prohibited on Amia on any and all channels (including the Tell-channel):
- Cybering, or "You know what" - Graphic torture, or "Gorey stuff"
Prohibited on Amia on any and all channels (including the Tell-channel), and prohibited to be included "off-screen" in ongoing storylines of characters on Amia (but may have happened before the character's arrival to Amia):
- Rape - Paedophilia
By graphic torture, we mean descriptive and detailed text (emotes or talk) that includes violent scenes that leave little for imagination. This applies to equivalent things such as descriptive cannibalism, removal of body parts/organs or necrophilia. Non-descriptive torture, such as *Stabs his eye out* may happen on the Talk channel if all parties agree. Torture that's not consented to but must happen for the sake of the story, will be said to have happened in a "Fade to Black" manner. In case of disagreement, the offended party's and/or the DMs' view on the rate and acceptability of details counts.
By cybering, or cyber-sex, we mean descriptive, detailed emotes or talk of bodily acts performed with the aim of sexual gratification of the character or of the player in mind. Sexual acts that a normal, non-exhibitionist person wouldn't do in front of their mother are cybering. Kissing, hugging and mild expression of affection and sexuality are acceptable.
This rule may be defined further in the future, if such a need arises.
Thank you for reading! If there's any questions, feel free to ask.
So really gory stuff is completely prohibited, even with consent of the "victim" and onviewers?
Correct. Anything you used to be able to RP on the public channels is still OK, however.
Nairas wrote:
Anything worse than *Stabs eye out* is forbidden? Regardless of consent?
Correct to the latter. All RP is to happen on the public channels, and the RP must conform to the public channel standards.
To define a bit further what is acceptable: stating the action of what is done is fine in torture, be it stabbing out an eye or ripping out a heart. Going into details with it is not fine. Hence, "descriptive".
In short: No RP on the tell channel, but everything must happen on the public channels (whisper, talk). Anything that passed on the public channels before passes now as well, no change there.
When on the surface with another Drow, I usually emote the signing, and then send the person a tell explaining what the message was. Is this still acceptable?
Well my gory character is dead now anyway, but this rule change makes religious sacrifices even more boring and unappealing. A more appropriate rule change would have been to ask the player for consent of gory stuff, and like in PvP, give an IC way out like my gnome who would have forgotten his shiny ceremonial dagger at home if the other player did not want gory stuff. But thats only my opinion.
When on the surface with another Drow, I usually emote the signing, and then send the person a tell explaining what the message was. Is this still acceptable?
Just how rude are those gestures you are making in Drow Sign?
_________________ "Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence" ~ Napoleon Bonaparte. - Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.
Well my gory character is dead now anyway, but this rule change makes religious sacrifices even more boring and unappealing. A more appropriate rule change would have been to ask the player for consent of gory stuff, and like in PvP, give an IC way out like my gnome who would have forgotten his shiny ceremonial dagger at home if the other player did not want gory stuff. But thats only my opinion.
If the only reason you did the sacrifice was so you could pretend to be in a Stephen King book at the parts where he kills someone, you're simply doing it wrong.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
@Nairas: Yes. There's a big difference between using the Tell channel as a reasonable part of public RP (such as emoting a handsign, whisper or foreign language publically, and elaborating in tells), and doing something that should publically be apparent (screwing the waitress on the bar counter, eating someone's body parts by the tree).
If it's not acceptable in public, it shouldn't be acceptable at all. If it's a logical addition to something that happens in public, and would also be acceptable in public, it's fairly kosher.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
When on the surface with another Drow, I usually emote the signing, and then send the person a tell explaining what the message was. Is this still acceptable?
This is OK. You are not really RPing on the tell channel, the RP happens in the public nonetheless. When I say "no tell RP", I refer to a particular type of RP that takes long periods solely on the tell channel.
Well my gory character is dead now anyway, but this rule change makes religious sacrifices even more boring and unappealing. A more appropriate rule change would have been to ask the player for consent of gory stuff, and like in PvP, give an IC way out like my gnome who would have forgotten his shiny ceremonial dagger at home if the other player did not want gory stuff. But thats only my opinion.
If the only reason you did the sacrifice was so you could pretend to be in a Stephen King book at the parts where he kills someone, you're simply doing it wrong.
After my first and only sacrifice of another player, who told me after it she was not ok with it and only rolled with the punches, I changed him to a parody of Dr. Evil and all the other masterminds who never get a thing right. He was quite a funny and dilettantish character from then on. So the rule makes sense to some degree, but there are still players who fancy gory stuff, hence my little objection.
Was there something wrong with the other rules of consent?
Basically, what Iron said. We want to streamline what RP is acceptable on the server, and settled for "all RP must be kosher (or halal, if you prefer) on the public channels" to make it a simple and sweet rule, that doesn't need much defining.
Tormak and Nekh already said this, but I'll spell it out in my way, too:
Compared to the previous rule, only one thing has changed. If it was alright to RP something on the Talk channel yesterday, it's alright today. If it wasn't alright on the Talk channel yesterday, it's not alright on any channel today. That's the only bit old players who already knew the old rule have to glean from this update. I'm fairly sure 95% of people know what wasn't alright on the Talk channel yesterday, but for those who don't, the updated rule also spells that out in as much detail as any literate, sentinent human possibly needs.
Maybe that clarifies it for those who were still wondering. Chances are I confused more people than I helped, though, or so I'm usually told.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
The reason this rule in particular refers to cybering and torture is... well, because no other form of RP took place on the tell-channel regularly than cybering and torture, as those used to be the things you had to do on the tell-channel, d'oh.
Great, maybe we can invite a kindergarten class to play with us while we're at it.
I don't cyber myself, nor have I involved myself in any graphic scenes of torture, but this just sounds like a sappy excuse to deprive a certain group of people you disagree with from enjoying the server, while inviting a group of people who are likely to be immature and barely capable of roleplay. Half the time I would be embarassed to call Amia a roleplaying server as it is, now you're making it worse by removing a need for maturity.
Most of all I think it should be up to people how they enjoy themselves within private tells and barring a whole area of roleplay off because a handful of people abused it is akin to washing a spot of ink from one's hands with battery acid.
_________________ "All progress comes when somebody says: 'Who gave him the right to do that to me?'" - Tony Benn
It's not. You can have a perfectly mature setting without explaining to your latest catch how you slowly slip your hands down his pants and gently caress his...
Get where I'm going with this?
Cybering is barely "roleplay". Sex is a perfectly good character development device. *cybering* is almost 99% of the time for the gratification of the players involved... certainly not the characters, despite what may be happening on screen.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
This game is an escape from reality, isn't it? Well, in reality 50% of you is thinking about sex 95% of the time. So, in the game you shouldn't be bothered with that. Just like food and toiletpaper!
_________________ Say 'no' to JSBF!
Last edited by Dev Disco on Sun, Feb 15 2009, 20:37 PM, edited 1 time in total.
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Cybering is barely "roleplay". Sex is a perfectly good character development device. *cybering* is almost 99% of the time for the gratification of the players involved... certainly not the characters, despite what may be happening on screen.
Tormak, EVERYTHING we do is for the gratification of the players involved. That's the point. It's a game. It's entertaining. It's gratifying.
Let me prove this to you in a way that you cannot argue against:
A game is:
Quote:
game 1 (gm) n. 1. An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime: party games; word games.
Amusment is:
Quote:
en·ter·tain·ment (ntr-tnmnt) n. 1. The act of entertaining. 2. The art or field of entertaining. 3. Something that amuses, pleases, or diverts, especially a performance or show.
Gratifying is:
Quote:
grat·i·fy (grt-f) tr.v. grat·i·fied, grat·i·fy·ing, grat·i·fies 1. To please or satisfy: His achievement gratified his father. See Synonyms at please. 2. To give what is desired to; indulge: gratified her curiosity. 3. Archaic To reward.
Thus, if a game = a form of amusement and amusement = pleasing and pleasing = gratification, then a game = gratification.
Now as to the question of whether or not it's roleplay, of course it bloody is. You're still roleplaying even if you're roleplaying jiggling about on each other. If I cybered, my druid would like it gentle and my palemaster would like it zombified, and each would have their own quirks involved with the act.
In reply to Evil-Wizard, if you believe that then you are automatically accusing every server, including this one, that allows currently or has ever allowed cybersex to be facilitating paedophilia. There's a 18+ age limit for a reason.
_________________ "All progress comes when somebody says: 'Who gave him the right to do that to me?'" - Tony Benn
Last edited by Slig on Sun, Feb 15 2009, 20:45 PM, edited 2 times in total.
Consider that lots of people do cyber. Whereas they could do it on this neutral ground before, now they have to resort to other places. Cybering is a troublesome subject. Guys, more so than girls, have a tendency to turn very annoying when they perceive a girl on the internet to be interested in them. By removing the neutral ground, you're pushing it into a zone of IM clients. That just sounds unhealthy to me.
I kinda don't agree with Cybering or adult RP not belonging on a RP server. It's a pleasant part of roleplay for many people. If people think about sex so much in real life, why would it be any different here? It doesn't make sense. You can say that it's icky, and you don't want anything to do with this stuff.. but it will continue to happen about as much as it has been.
Well, it's a matter of "if you really need to cyber, you and the other person can simply go log onto another social server, cyber there, and come back to Amia."
Not being able to cyber here will not impact your RP in any appreciable manner, and if it does, you were only using this place to cyber anyways. Try out Mianyr sometime.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
You knew what I meant and chose to make an entire post out of a *word* because you had no other arguements.
Tormak, what's wrong with feeling sexually gratified out of character? Especially when your character is feeling sexually gratified as well. Generally when you're feeling what your character is feeling it means you're on a wavelength with your character and feeling a kind of immersion. That's a good thing.
Also, don't ever accuse me of being persnickety for lack of other arguments. I've left the whole torture side of this out because I wanted to focus on the issue of cybersex.
Quote:
Quote:
If I cybered, my druid would like it gentle and my palemaster would like it zombified, and each would have their own quirks involved with the act.
These can be expressed without performing the physical act in the game. It is the difference between an M rating and an AO rating.
So what you're saying is, this is about ratings and the DMs' will to see the server open to younger players? I don't buy that. I don't like roleplaying with 12 year olds because I've met exactly one 12 year old who was also a capable roleplayer. This server needs better roleplayers, not worse. That's why it's called a roleplaying server, y'know.
_________________ "All progress comes when somebody says: 'Who gave him the right to do that to me?'" - Tony Benn
Now you've gone from picking at a word, to claiming I said that everyone should feel bad about being sexually gratified, and I assure you this is not true, and I'll thank you.. .again, to stop lying and twisting my words.
I think you have this odd idea that I am a prude, and I assure you.. I absolutely am not, and there are more than a few people who could vouch for that.
I'll accuse you of whatever I feel like when it appears to be true, TYVM. Your arguement has done nothing to convince me.
When I can see a coherently written arguement about why allowing people to cyber on the server so they can masturbate without feeling bad that it's probably another man at the end of the line, and why allowing this miraculously gives a huge improvement to the quality of the server, then maybe I'll reconsider. Because by and large, the crowd you will attract by making cybering allowable on the server, is not a crowd you want to deal with.
I'll have you know I actually had no stake in this arguement on the DM forums for or against. My push was simply for a clarified universal rule. After all, if we allowed cybering, why should we force the players into circumstances where they can't discern if the rule is in palce or not? Our rule was "you can cyer if conditions X Y Z and A-3 are met." But Conditions Z and X weren't able to be seen by the players, so they never knew if they could cyber, which means people were getting in trouble.
So it came down to: Either we are going to go all the way and remove cybering from the server *period*, or we stop setting innane conditions and set ups, an simply allow you to... cyber on the server. The choice was almost unanimously for the former.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
If you want to cyber or do some form of overly graphic torture, log off Amia and go to MSN or something and do all you want... IMO, one of the points of Amia is for people to have their characters interact with the whole environment. Nobody is saying don't have your characters be affectionate or cruel, merely that if you'd read it in a A.N. Roquelaure book or see it on Vivid Video's latest skin flick leave it out.
Having two people sitting in a room by themselves in a tell-flurry about how they're touching this and stroking that or poking this internal organ with a stick is not conducive to what Amia is about. You are doing nothing to add to the flavor of Amia and it's wonderful charm. You're merely taking up server room that someone else could be productively using as they contribute to the fabric of the fantasy we enjoy escaping to.
If you want to cyber, go to Kinky Kingdom. If you want to get way too graphic with your torture, I can refer some wonderful psychoanalysts that would love to speak with you.
Justify it all you want, but the rules are the rules and you're pretty much beating your head against a brick wall for all the good it'll do you trying to change them.
_________________
"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
Amia Wants To Stay Friendly To Any Ages Without Causing Alientation And Sexual Harassment, Or Being A Grounds Of Such Conduct
So if you like things the DM's forbid, you're allowed to go elsewhere an nobody will blame you. It's only when you do it where the greater-majority wishes it kept away from. And the DM's have "greater-majority".
Seriously, Deal with it. If this affects your gameplay, then just have OOC agreements of things that happened outside of other player's knowing, and if you want to RP that, you do it off of Amia. Not the End of the World.
_________________ Weston Carter ~Salandran~ : Retired Carters Leave Amia
Folks, we had this fight in the DM forums already. I doubt anything you dare to say here will add anything to the comments made in there. We voted, and this is the result.
It's fine to feel this ruke is rubbish, excellent, childish, unimportant, or whatever. In the end all that matters is that a clear majority of the staff doesn't think it is acceptable, and if you don't agree you can simply do the forbidden bits on MSN or another server.
I guess there are better things to get upset about.
Alright enough with this bullshit you two, Slig and Tormak. Next argument post gets a ban.
To Slig, if you don't fancy this new rule, there are other servers to play on. This is not a topic to debate the rule to pointlessness, but an announcement and a topic to ask questions about it.
Xordae, we are perfectly aware it'll happen whatever we fancy on Amia. That was the acknowledgment of the previous rules on this, too. Alas, we don't need it here. People are welcome to do whatever floats their boat on IMs and other servers, just not here. I don't think it's too unreasonable, given we know what to expect of people.
I guess it's a NIMBY approach, but we simply don't care any more than that.
And Slig, I think Tormak meant sexual gratification of the players involved. If you can pull your wiener and be happy while watching the insanity in Cordor then your really a weirdo irl and perhaps should switch to kinky kingdom.
christ, ur awesome!
--
well, what i think is that if Cybering in amia is ever welcomed publicly, i'd remove my own ass off the server, and I'm sure that most people would as well.
its a very simple argument in which the people placing the rules have a very understandable ground
if ur gonna make completely non-productive RP that could be classified as AO rating (the game cover says NWN is T-M), it is very simple to go to another server for that RP.
I don't see much that could be used in 'defense' of inappropriate materials.
_________________
Moridan_X wrote:
I liek Jean Ortega as a character because it shows that everyone can be different. I also don't think we should incorporate mean behavior in video games.
You say it's non-productive. If you ask someone who actually does it, he'll tell you it's a part of character development just like being social.
'Course, you have to differentiate between regular wankers and elaborate RPers who take it as a part of a RP relationship. And those could probably do it without the juicy parts and get a decent effect on the storyline, as well. But why should they?
I don't wanna give the wrong impression here. I don't cyber much, if at all, these days.. but it's not like anyone else beside Slig is helping the defense.
Well, if enough regular wankers and others who want to cyber for the sake of character development announce themselves, I promise to negotiate a cooperation agreement with Kinky Kingdom to cater to your entertainment needs.
So when Va said last night that he hoped someone got sat on by an elephant and go up its arse, and that elephant would turn out to be gay, and then another gay elephant would come along and bugger the first one and thus inadvertently bugger the person that was up its arse...
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Cybering & Torture, aka Adult RP
