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Any suggestions for the Cleric of Vhaeraun that is Male, Chaotic Neutral?

Domain?
Evil or Trickery or Travel. Was thinking Trickery and Travel since Haste and Imp Invis is really good?

Would like to know if a melee cleric or a casting cleric would turn out better?

Should there be any multiclassing into Rogue or something to take advantage of the Divine Trickery thing and to fit the Vhaeraun image?

I would like to get a few social skills into play here. Thinking maybe a bard skill dump?

I would like a high caster level and at least epic cleric. Any suggestions?

Would like to know if a melee cleric or a casting cleric would turn out better?

Domain?
Evil or Trickery or Travel. Was thinking Trickery and Travel since Haste and Imp Invis is really good?

Trickery is nothing but free Improved Invis scrolls.

Evil get Negburst, which is sexynice for the Sentinel and is in effect +4AC/DR by the time you get to Cleric28.

Travel is never truly redundant; even when there's a mage or Bard around, you can prep a few and extend the gap between rests.

Cleric24/BG2/Rogue2 sounds reasonable to me. One BG level pre-epic, the second at the end to top up Discipline. You'll have good CHA since 1.69 meant Divine Might/Shield is almost the only option for a melee Cleric.

The problem is STR 8, CON 6 (you end up with 180 HP but you honestly dont need a lot as being a DEX based Epic Dodger) and CHA 8.
As weapon, could go either Rapier (for the look), Kama (cheap choice) or Longbow.

Which grants more bang for the buck/works out better? Strongheart 23/5 Bard/Fighter, or Lightfoot 25/5 Bard/fighter?

6 (3): IGMS, Greater Stoneskin, Mass Haste (Not much leeway here, would have liked some other spells too)

8 (3): Premonition, GS, (Bigby), (Sunburst), (Summon VIII), (Greater Planar Binding), (Incendiary Cloud (why do all the cloud spells after CoB have to suck?)), (Mass Blind/Deaf)

9 (3): Mordenkainen's Disjunction, (Time Stop), (Meteor Swarm), (Weird), (Bigby), (Dominate Monster), (Greater Spell Mantle), (Summon IX), (BBoD)

Yarp. My point was: Using a dual weapon is -2 AB. Wielding two bastard swords is -4 AB. If you take the focuses with bastard sword you have only a penalty of -1 AB, dual weapon remains on -2 AB.

That, or then I'm screwing up terribly, since I'm damn tired and going to bed now.

I should perhaps clarify that im not after an uber build, just one that is tolerably usefull in PvM, and most of all; fun to play. Using the companion as tank and then flanking with a double axe or two-blade sword just have to be fun. Much more fun than dualwielding a bastardswords... or hammers. I want to use the hammer often, sounds so incrediby brutal.

QPR wrote:

To be honest, pure Rangers needn't stress unduly about their weapon choice for the extremely simple reason that unless you squeeze in Devcrit you're only 40% of the build. The other 60% has four legs.

I have an idea for build. Monk/Wizard/Shadowdancer. So they pop out of hiding and so on, cast a few spells, hide, and sort of do that kind of thing. I have no idea if it would be effective at all though.

What's the % if you do squeeze in Dev Crit? .

maglorine wrote:

What's the % if you do squeeze in Dev Crit? .

Dunno for sure, I haven't made one. Over 50, I'd imagine.

I would be interested in suggestions for favoured enemies however; whih are the harder ones where BoW would makea difference?

QPR wrote:

I would be interested in suggestions for favored enemies however; which are the harder ones where BoW would make a difference?

I'd go for an earlier Favored Enemy: Giant, since leveling through the giants at and after level 25 is worthless, concerning exp. Take it at 15 in stead, or 20 if you're unable to find a decent party.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Thu, Mar 05 2009, 22:54 PM ]
Post subject:	The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II
The old one is over a hundred pages now, and a completely different track of thought now, so I'll start off the new one and leave a link to the old one. Build Topic MArk I: Starts off as a place to post random awesome builds turns into the build advice topic you know and love/hate. http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17498 ~~~~ The Neverwinter Nights Wiki www.nwnwiki.com Learn it, live it, love it, if you have mechanical or basic technical questions it is more than likely answered in there and correctly.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Thu, Mar 05 2009, 22:55 PM ]
Post subject:
Reposted for player benefit as it's the last question that didn't get asnwered fully before the lock: Quote: Any suggestions for the Cleric of Vhaeraun that is Male, Chaotic Neutral? Domain? Evil or Trickery or Travel. Was thinking Trickery and Travel since Haste and Imp Invis is really good? Would like to know if a melee cleric or a casting cleric would turn out better? Should there be any multiclassing into Rogue or something to take advantage of the Divine Trickery thing and to fit the Vhaeraun image? I would like to get a few social skills into play here. Thinking maybe a bard skill dump? I would like a high caster level and at least epic cleric. Any suggestions?

Author:	StandingBehindYou [ Thu, Mar 05 2009, 23:10 PM ]
Post subject:
Quote: Would like to know if a melee cleric or a casting cleric would turn out better? Melee cleric. Although you can be a "caster cleric" and actually be fairly decent at melee just by changing around your spell selection. If you do decide to be melee-focused, you can be pretty darn effective at it. Quote: Domain? Evil or Trickery or Travel. Was thinking Trickery and Travel since Haste and Imp Invis is really good? Of those options definitely Trickery and Travel. I don't think you will ever regret choosing those. (My cleric has neither, which matters not at all when there's a mage or bard in the party who can keep everyone hasted and 50% concealed, but at least two thirds of the time there isn't.)

Author:	Really Evil Pigeon [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 0:00 AM ]
Post subject:
I know one person had an totally awesome sding cleric rogue around, couldn't give you the details, alsoI used to actually play an sding cleric, little low on the cleric level, but it was enough to fight with, and epic dodge, just used the lower end cleric spells, sadly enough I can't actualy remember it's build but I personally always try to fit 4 blackguard into my cleric builds I know you can get 4 attacks anyways, but it's good to be able to fight when not fully prepared and I also used to have a caster cleric, and I have to admit she was pretty awesome for wht she was, go evo/necro focus, evocation is better though appart from that try I'm pretty sure it's 16 cleric/ 2 rogue/ 10 sdermess around with it in single player

Author:	Acrid [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 0:32 AM ]
Post subject:
I got a rogue 3 / Cleric 15 / SD 10 build with Travel and earth domain and Epic Dodge. Great build, had tons of RP fun as being a drow (but dont have Discipline skill). So i tought of a better build and came up with (didnt build it for playing time shortness): Monk 3 / Cleric 17 / SD 10 (Elf) It got Epic Dodge, Spell lvl 9 and as Skill: Discipline, Hide, MS, Spot and Tumble. The domain are Travel and Trickery. The problem is STR 8, CON 6 (you end up with 180 HP but you honestly dont need a lot as being a DEX based Epic Dodger) and CHA 8. As weapon, could go either Rapier (for the look), Kama (cheap choice) or Longbow. Great build, with skills but hard to lvl tough.

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Author:	Uncle-Opustus [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 7:58 AM ]
Post subject:
Great builds? You're already a monk with Travel domain (Haste), I can't really see why you took SD, other than to piss people off. Also, your buffs run out faster than... Well, can't come up with a nice metaphor right now.

Author:	Galenson [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 8:15 AM ]
Post subject:
Spellcaster clerics are a joke, don't bother. Most offencive cleric spells do not have the same amount of grunt as the mage equivalents (fire storm vs an empowered horrid wilting? Please...) and the spells which mages would argue crap all over their spells such as implosion because they have no immunities have an extremely small AoE which eliminates their uses. Other cleric spells can be easily nullified with a casting of shadowshield or negative energy protection. The only good things a wisdom based cleric can be used for is possessing Coven Leaders in the Manor of Mourn or cross-classing with monk to get a -slightly- higher amount of AC. The best cleric is a cleric who is effective in melee AND has decent summons to watch their back eg: death domain summon or EDK or pharaoh sentinel. Just take note that 1.69 screwed over your dodge AC.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 8:35 AM ]
Post subject:
You can't Empower Horrid Wilt. Of course, a Cleric can't empower a Firestorm, either. A druid can.

Author:	Galenson [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 8:41 AM ]
Post subject:
Keeping them at their base values then, Horrid Wilting vs Fire storm just proves my point that cleric offencive spells don't have as much grunt. Firestorm is 20d6 fire/divine damage with reflex for half. (absolute maximum is 60 fire and 60 divine damage) Horrid Wilting is 25d8 magical damage with fort for half. (absolute maximum is 200 magical damage which -can't- be resisted)

Author:	Galenson [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 8:55 AM ]
Post subject:
That or you need to pump yourself with improved/greater initiative feats or find ways to maximise your AB and damage as much as possible so that when you start hitting, not much can stand up to it.

Author:	ticket [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 9:12 AM ]
Post subject:
Acrid wrote: The problem is STR 8, CON 6 (you end up with 180 HP but you honestly dont need a lot as being a DEX based Epic Dodger) and CHA 8. As weapon, could go either Rapier (for the look), Kama (cheap choice) or Longbow. Play around with Cleric 16/Rogue 13/Monk. Epic dodge dual wielding kamas. Huge huge ridiculous damage, get Improved KD, and mow down anything in your path. Being a cleric, you can easily max out 3-4 stats with gear and potions. It's a hard toon to trick out with custom gear though but once you got it, it should perform superbly. And as you said its going to be a challenge to play too - fun for the whole family. P.S. Forget SD

Author:	Uberuce [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 9:39 AM ]
Post subject:
Why o why did it have to be kamas for the 3BAB progression? So many ninja fanboy weapons to choose from, and they pick the one that makes you look like Verne Troyer dressed up as the Grim Reaper. Anyway, can Vhaerun clerics even be Lawful?

Author:	Uncle-Opustus [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 9:46 AM ]
Post subject:
Nope.

Author:	Zanthair [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 19:24 PM ]
Post subject:
my drow cleric is going to end up as 26 cleric/ 2 fighter, but he worships selvetarm not vhaerun.

Author:	Uberuce [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 8:50 AM ]
Post subject:
Edit: This is here purely because this is the first post I made in this thread. A Buildmonkey Writes: Tips on Not Being a Party Leech Well, I'll assume if you've clicked this thread you've got a character concept in mind and even if you don't really care about power, you don't want to inconvenience yourself and your friends by having a build that dies all day. I'll further assume you want to try a general fighting style and have set a character to it, or have a character and have selectad a style that fits it. Either way, he/she is going to have to go out into the field and kill a lot of stuff, or help other to do saidsame, so you might as well be reasonably good at it. The important thing to remember is that Amia simply isn't very hard. As a bare minimum you merely need something that isn't going to be a burden to your party, although plainly it's better to be an asset. It's unlikely you'll need to break your RP to fit in something useful for your pals. What follows is just some of my ramblings about each class, centred on my belief that once you have the character personality tied to a fighting style, you should build for your party's benefit in PvM first, and solo/PvP power second. That's just the main focus of the server, although there is undeniably a fair bit of PvP and bossfarming going on at any time of day. What benefits a party? 1) Unique buffing: 'Unique' since, for example, it's better to havea mage and a Druid than two mages or two Druids; the buffs complement each other. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: A paralysed, stunned, Feared or prone enemy is one you don't need to worry about, no matter how much of a bad mofo it is. To a lesser extent, one that's badly weakened is wormfood too. 3) All-day damage output: Not just a matter of damage/hit; you need enough AB too. A person doing 40 damage per hit and hitting twice a round is less use than someone doing 30 and hitting thrice. 4) Not dying: Even if you're not damaging heavily or buffing or healing, simply being there at the front line makes safer for everyone else. As a rule of thumb, a single buddy is worth 5AC, two is worth 5-10, three is worth 10-infinite if you get lucky with targetting. Clearly if you die, the ones left will then be in deep trouble. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: For the Boss. --------------------------------- Barbarian. 1) Unique buffing: Fail 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Pass Taunt with full ranks will barn-door-ify almost anything by 6AC. The big selling point, though is Terrifying Rage. Although at epic most things are Fear-immune, there's never nothing that's Fear-immune. It will shriek and run at the mere sight of a Mythal-boosted Barbarian. 3) All-day damage output: Pass . Nothing amazing, but Rage will last for whole spawns with high CON and by epic Barbarian, you'll have enough for the day's hunting. Without it, you're presumably high-STR so doing solid hurt anyway. Thundering Rage also gives a healthy 1d8 Sonic boost for your weapons. That stacks with Flame Weapon and Darkfire, but not with Deafening Clang. 4) Not dying: Borderline Masses of HP is no match for masses of AC, but if you go for heavy DR and/or buy loads of healing potions, you'll live. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Pass This is a funny, indirect one and it's a tactic open to everyone, but Barbs are one of two or three classes that can really make it work: chugging an Elemental Shield potion and knocking back Heals while the enemy knocks lumps out of you is a terrible plan for PvMob, but against bosses, if you have bags of HP and DR, it makes sound economic sense. And Barbs do. General tips on Anger Mismanagement: It's pretty straightforward stuff for a Barb. You hit things till they die. To be frank they're pretty sub-par until epic; you'll be out-performed by caster summons. Then Terrifying Rage comes along and you suddenly have a winbutton for anything not Fear-immune. The Sneak Attackers will love you dearly since a Feared enemy is flagged as being prone(this is why you can't KD a Feared thing), and all their attacks are Sneak. However, it's a real pain in the arse unless everyone's Hasted and can catch the fleeing spawn fast. Outside of that, do your tankly duty: stay still until the buffer tells you she's finished, then make a beeline for the enemy mages. If you see the buffer in trouble, hit Rage and kick the ungodly stuffing out of whatever's bothering her. --------------------------------- Fighter. This is an odd class, since all it provide is full BAB and lots of bonus feats to augment other classes. Because of that, it's basically never encountered in pure form past low level. Nor should it be. There is no reason to stay pure Fighter, RP included. It's got precisely zero unique characteristics except one, so I'll ignore the other categories, since they don't really apply to Fighter per se. Likewise for the RP...you're a fighter? So's everyone else that isn't a GS/Mestil-jockey caster. 3) All-day damage output: Honours The one unique thing Fighter has is Epic Weapon Specialisation: 6 extra damage per strike. Very, very nice for anyone that shoots, pokes or wallops. --------------------------------------------------- Monk. 1) Unique buffing: Fail 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Fail Not enough AB to KD reliably, Stunning Fist is a Fort saves and thus nigh-useless at epic. 3) All-day damage output: Fail Low damage per hit, so even the Monk flurry can't make you exciting. Exception made for STR-base Monks. 4) Not dying: Honours Monks are like "I wonder what to do with all this AC. Anyone wants spare AC? Spell Resistance? Immunities, then; I've got loads left." Also, Monk9 is a pre-req for Epic Dodge. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Borderline The Pain Touch and Weakening Touch widgets let you take a hefty chunk of AB off a single target. Nice for bosses. General tips on Looking at the Moon, not the Finger: I don't like this class since it doesn't do what I prefer to see in a build, at least not very well. You're a pure tank, so again it's: get buffed, target their casters and protect your own. Also, keep your supply of Raise Scrolls full; if your party does get nuked, the person most likely to survive is you. Escape, hole up/heal or run into Cordor/Wiltun and cast Summon Bored Epic if need be. ---------------------------------------- Rogue. 1) Unique buffing: Borderline UMD can get you a fair amount of places, but it's no match for a caster. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Borderline Crippling Strike will swiftly nuke the AB/damage of anything you can flank, which will help the thing it's hurting, but if you're in that position, it's probably going to be dead very soon anyway. 3) All-day damage output: Pass Much like Barbarian Rage, most things at high-epic are Sneak-proof but there's never nothing that's unSneakable. Target them and you'll rack up the Sneaks. Up until high epic, you're always a nasty nasty man. 4) Not dying: Honours Improved Evasion and vast Reflex, bags of AC and most of all Epic Dodge. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Pass A Rogue can easily reach the immense DC needed to set Epic traps. It's very timeconsuming and thus unsuitable for mobs, but a carpet of traps will put a great big dent in a boss's day. General Tips on Larceny for Fun and Profit: You are the only character capable of disarming, setting and picking the nastier traps and locks, so keep those skills nice and high. In mob-combat, learn who's sneakable and who's not, wait till one of the other tanks is engaged, and then flank like mad. If you see the buffer in trouble, equip a ranged weapon and Sneak-spam if its not immune, and Called-shot or go melee and IKD if it is. ------------------------------------- Cleric. Please please please pick a god and take at least one of his/her domains. Without that you're just some person who inexplicably has a bunch of spells, and there's nothing to work with there. That doesn't necessarily mean he/she is a bad character to RP with, it's just that there's no connection between their fighting style and their personality/history and that's meh meh MEH. 1) Unique buffing: Top of the Class Every mage or Bard has Imp. Invis and Haste, there's that many of them you can more or less rely on one cropping up, and Travel/Trickery Clerics have them anyway. Either way you get the gorgeous suite of Cleric buffs that you just can't get anywhere else. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Pass There are a few disabling Cleric spells, but mostly I'm counting the 34DC Will Fear Aura on the dragon, should you take EDK. Otherwise Borderline 3) All-day damage output: Pass Clerics hit acceptably hard, CHA-heavy Divine Mighter Clerics more so, but no matter what type they are, they should get to include the summon's output unless the party's full. 4) Not dying: Pass When all else fails, Greater Sanctuary is sitting right there, hotkeyed and shiny, but casting it in heavy combat can be somewhat shaky. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Pass With the right domain Clerics can get to insane damage/AB for short bursts. They used to pwnzor pwn here when Undeath's Foe stacked. General Tips on Piety and Pwnage: It's a bit of a chore, but ask your party beforehand what they need, and fill up that spellbook accordingly. At lowbie, you're better casting the Hour/level buffs and extending the others. Until you gain so many levels that you have all the spells in the world, you'll have to be choosey about who gets what buff. You have some pleasant damage buffs, so apply them to the highest AB in the group, even if that's your summon and especially if it's not you. If you don't yet have the spells to buff yourself and the tanks, buff them and retire with grace to Greater Sanctuary or Invisibility. Magic Vestment is castable on people's shields, so ask them to drop it on the ground or barter it to you so you can cast. A lot of Clerics choose the GS-jockey route since it's open to them from level 11, but I think that's a mistake unless you can't afford to selfbuff enough to survive. Once you can Magic Vestment/Shield of Faith +5 yourself, you can also fill up level 2 with Extended Divine Favour and become an adequate frontliner. You'll not be the killing gameshow, but simply hanging in melee takes lots of the heat off your tanks, and the ~25-30 damage you can do by midlevel is worth sending downrange. When trouble looms, pop into GS and go healbot. There's nothing like the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing you've got a Johnny-on-the-Spot Cleric in your team, eagleye on the HP bars, and a shedload of Heal/Mass Heal/Greater Restore/healkits-at-80 skill hotkeyed. ----------------------------------- Druid. 1) Unique buffing: Pass Spell Resistance and Barkskin mean you can ignore most casters and swap out your AC amulet for something better. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Borderline Stonehold is a Will save, and that means stuck enemies. Sunburst is extremely good too, but that's your lot, really. 3) All-day damage output: Pass Until you get Dragonshape you suck, when you do get it, you're medium, but your pet is always a cannon. Animal Empathy often means you can borrow one of the local wildlife an add that to the mix. 4) Not dying: Fail You pass when you can Dragonshape, though. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Fail General Tips on Hugs(Arboreal): You have some lovely lovely toys. Spell Resistance, Barkskin+5, Heal/Mass Heal/healskill are all things I love having around when I'm running with Druids. In terms of getting stuff dead, I hate to say it but you're basically a carrying case for the Big Dawg. It's not your fault, you've had to gimp everything to pay for Dragonshape, but until the scaly look comes in...you, personally, suck. I've played a lowbie mage running with a Druid, and the best thing we could do for many levels was hide her with Invis and let the pooch do the work. And ZOMG, can the pooches do the work. WM's, Divine Mighters and heavy Sneakers are the only things that don't look at a Big Dawg and say "I wish I could do that." -------------------------------- Bard. 1) Unique buffing: Honours Bardsong is wonderful.It's a damn close run between Bards and Clerics for this category. Bards also have Mass Haste and Improved Invis, so when mages are scare and the priest isn't a Travel/Trickery cheeser, they win. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing:Top of the Class Curse Song means everything in sight become a barn door that's so drunk it can barely stand. I don't think there's anything offensive that you can do to a monster that isn't easier after it's been Cursed, the Bigby/Isaac's lines excepted. Best of all, there are no saves and immunities to Cursesong. Everything from Kobold Scouts to Ao will feel the pain. 3) All-day damage output: Fail 4) Not dying: Pass Bardic AC is Abyss-proof, and with UMD they can wangle enough immunity/saves gear to manage bosses. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Fail Elan is a Pussy: You have a tough time from 3-13 or so. You're essential a crap Sorceror, but from 13, Bardsong picks up and you just get better and better. As with any caster, if you can't buff to survivability, then polish the tanks and hide, but with Tumble and the UMD to wear the good kit, you can almost always get the AC to hang in melee, even if you hit like Mary Poppins. Once you have Lasting Inspiration, which you need an awesome reason not to rush for, you are best suited to being pointman, Curse-singing the whole spawn and then engaging. Your tanks will follow shortly and they will have Power Attack running. With Curse Song, anyone with more than around 47AB(you will buff many people this high with GMW/Bardsong) can run PA and lose nothing in hit rate. It's just free damage, so tell them to use it. --------------------------------- Wizards & Sorcerer. 1) Unique buffing: Pass It's the big five: Mass Haste, Improved Invisibility, GMW/Keen, and Mindblank. The most common, but doing without them is painful. I'd give them honours since the big five are so big, but they're so very common that I just set the benchmark of Pass in this category as magebuffs. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Honours Bigby's, Fear, Sunburst, all very good. 3) All-day damage output: Pass until high-epic. Between a single Wail per spawn and the summon's help, they contribute enough HP to pay their way. Then the Abyss comes along and eats the summons in two seconds and they're all Wail-immune. 4) Not dying: Honours Greater Sanctuary at the very least, but since mages only have one stat to worry about, they whore up CON so much that often the caster has more HP as anyone except the dwarf. When the mage is a Sorc multicheesed to Paladin/BG and Monk/Rogue, they go straight to Top of the Class. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Top of the Class If you only have one or two things to kill, and you want them really, really dead? Call a mage. Tips on the Weave being your Bitch(either by Brains or Beauty) The normal approach is to sit in Invis (and later GS) having buffed your party and summons. That bores me to tears, although my mage did indeed end up doing that from time to time when in a big party that exhausted my spellbook on buffs. So I started off as a Damage Mage, since lowbie spawn HP is so small it's viable, then went for the Status Mage Method from then on. Status Mages do little or no HP damage, but instead attack the mind and eyes of the monsters, or just kill them outright with a deathspell. Find what saves you can pass easiest and attack them. Reflex and Will are generally the targets. ------------------------------------- Paladin. 1) Unique buffing: Borderline Deafening Clang, Prayer and Bless Weapon are rare, but they won't save an under-armoured party. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Fail Taunt is there, but when so much of their AC is Dodge, not worth using. 3) All-day damage output: Honours Divine Might and Favour mean you'll hit harder than anything, and only crit less than WM's. 4) Not dying: Honours Their saves are godlike and their AC, although shortlived, is helluva high too. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Honours Smite Evil in epic can put 500 points of damage downrage in a single round, without crits. Lay on Hands is 400+ if it's undead. General Tips on Rectal Stick Insertion: At lowbie, you have one thing few others do: a bumpertruckload of Taunt. Spam it without mercy or pity. Your Dodge AC is minimal, so you're losing almost nothing and gaining 6AB. Once your Pally buffs kick in, you're in the same quandry as any other caster: who best to buff? A lot of the time it will be you, but as a general rule, a party with a Extended Prayer-spammer Pally does better than one who's taken Holy Sword. Bless Weapon and Deafening Clang are so sexy I need to change trousers after an undead run. The trickiest thing with Pallies is timing the three Divine selfbuffs you need to be much use: Favour, Might and Shield. A lot of the time my Pally spends so long doing that that the spawn is half dead before I run into it. Admittedly I am righteous fury incarnate when that point arrives, but in battle it can seem like that takes forever. --------------------------------------- Ranger. 1) Unique buffing: Borderline There's nothing that can't be gained from items and refeshed all day pretty painlessly, but convenience is no bad thing. They also have the only source of castable Keen that can apply to piercing or blunt weapons, since Blade Thirst is modified on Amia. This is a nice perk, but won't aid much in survivability. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Fail 3) All-day damage output: Pass Without Bane of Enemies and a Favoured target, it's poor, but you still have an animal companion. Fuzzybutt of Dhoom. With it: Honours . Bane and Favoured combines to give the same effect as a whole Devcritter's STR mod applied to you. 4) Not dying: Fail Unless DEX-based, they need a lot of friends to stay alive and more importantly to keep the pet safe from Dismissal spam. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Fail General Tips on Getting to Pork Arwen: Now that Blade Thirst is uber, use it. Ranger fighting is all about a partnership between you and the pet. Sometimes you have to run ahead to deal with Dismissal casters, other times you need to rely on the pet's hefty DR to draw aggro. ------------------------------------------- Prestige classes: This is where it gets tricky, since by definition you must have another class in the mix. I'm going to talk purely in terms of what the prestige class brings, so add it to the base. ------------------------------------- Arcane Archer 1) Unique buffing: Fail (you get that from the arcane caster levels) 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Pass At high AA, the Discipline needed to beat a Called Shot is fearsome, but Called Shot simply ain't that hot. It does have one excellent use: bailing out a struggling party member. This is normally the mage if GS/Invis has dropped, which means he'll be dancing the Circular Waltz of Panic. Toss a Called Shot:Leg into the critter chasing him and then shoot it to death at leisure. With the custom AA-only arrows and their nasty Stun/Blind/Slow effects, you can generally take whatever you are aiming at out of the fight completely for the short time it will survive your shooting. If you keep an eye on your pal's healthbars, then you'll know where to direct them best. 3) All-day damage output: Honours They don't do vast damage per hit, but it's nice enough, and they miss only on 20's with a stack of AA levels, and get 5 attacks per round unbuffed. The real trick is that they can focus that hurt on a single target quicker than anyone. 4) Not dying: Borderline No shield? You die. Got shield? You'll live with your uber DEX AC, but you now hit like a sickly kitten. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Fail The saves on the special arrows are mince. General Tips on AWP Whoring: Straightforward enough, though; Shoot things, especially their casters and anyone hassling yours. With high AA levels you can multiclass to Cleric or BG and still get excellent AB permanently, which is normally the failing of Divine Mighters. That bumps your damage up yet further. Sneak-whoring AA's are even more vicious, albeit more situational. ------------------------------------- Assassin 1) Unique buffing: Borderline UMD can get you a fair amount of places, but it's no match for a caster. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Pass (until epic, then Fail:) Death Attack is a Fort save. It gets shut down by mid-20's. 3) All-day damage output: Pass Same as Rogue 4) Not dying: Pass High AC. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Fail General Tips on being a Deadly Viper: Much the same as the Rogue, but your Death Attack means it probably best to be pointman under Invis or stealth, so you can nuke at least one of them in short order.The downside of this is that in a normal party, you'd be as well letting the STR-tanks steam in first and flanking instead. Sneaking just takes too damn long. ------------------------------------- Blackguard. 1) Unique buffing: Borderline Like the Pally, they have some nice stuff but not lifesavers. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Pass Taunt, and the Aura of Despair to help out Wail-spammers and Dev-critters. 3) All-day damage output: (with high CHA) Pass Divine Might really hurts, but the BG Sneaks Attacks aren't useless either, although conditional like all Sneaks. However, unless you've got a heavy AB boost coming from your other classes, Divine Might is going to take a lot from your AB, and misses do zero damage. 4) Not dying: Honours Divine Shield and the uberised saves. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Fail There is only one Good-aligned bosses in PvM. General Tips on Being Not The Messiah, but a Very Naughty Boy: There's some pretty nice BG buffs these days, but mostly you're just beating the bejesus out of things. ------------------------------------- Champion of Torm. 1) Unique buffing: Fail v2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Fail 3) All-day damage output: Fail All comes from generic STR/other classes. 4) Not dying: Pass Saves out the wazzock. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: (With high CHA)Honours Honours. Divine Wrath and Smite Evil are monstercore. Otherwise Fail. General Tips on Holy Violence: Like Fighter this is a bit of an add-on rather than a class; your fighting style will still derive from your main class(es), you're just a bit savesier and can do nasty things to bosses. ------------------------------------- Dwarven Defender. 1) Unique buffing: Fail 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Fail 3) All-day damage output: Fail All comes from generic STR/other classes. 4) Not dying: Honours Sneak-proof in combat, bags of HP and more DR than anything except a Shifter Gargoyle. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Honours Same gig as for Barbs, only more so. General Tips on Aged Footwear Resemblence: More than any other class, you can bool right into a spawn ahead of your mates and hope the monsters all pick on you. That means the casters can cast without drawing flak, the archers can snipe and the Sneakers can flank. Just be careful of Defensive Stance at low HP: it's a CON buff and will kill you if it clicks off when you've less then 2HP/level. ------------------------------------- Harper Scout. 1) Unique buffing: Borderline Tymora's Smile on Amia gives +5 saves for 10 turns, and it's castable on a friend. Only one friend, mind. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Bwahaha. 3) All-day damage output: falls on floor 4) Not dying: Stop! Stop! I think I've pulled a muscle in my ribs! 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Fail begins coughing up blood from excessive laughter General Tips on Subtle Goodytwoshoe Hijinks: Try to get some of your many pints of rapidly exiting blood in their eyes. It might distract them a little. ------------------------------------- Pale Master. 1) Unique buffing: If Wizard: Pass, if Sorc/Bard: Fail. They only learn the spells if they're a Wizard. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: (See arcane class) 3) All-day damage output:Fail. 4) Not dying: Honours High AC/HP, and perhaps the best immunity set in the game. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: (see arcane class) Deathless Master Touch is more or less a 1-only thing on bosses and epic spawns. General Tips on Black Clothes, Grumpy Music and Sylvia Plath Poetry Appreciation: Same as a mage, but you may want to craft some armour so you can hide your mucky undead-lovin' ways from the Druid'n'Pally population. ------------------------------------- Red Dragon Disciple. 1) Unique buffing: Your mother is a whore. 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: A fat one, at that. 3) All-day damage output: She only gets trade from Turkish sailors, and they'll go for anything tubby. 4) Not dying: But only the deckhands. The ones with more than a fiver aim for the big girls that aren't ugly. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: She's so desperate for business she's even take the ones with syphilis. ------------------------------------- Shadowdancer. 1) Unique buffing: Fail 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Borderline Shadow Daze can get to a pretty reasonable DC, I think? Dunno, to be honest. 3) All-day damage output: Fail 4) Not dying: Honours HiPS is the defensive Daddy, and Epic Dodge is ubarity incarnate. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Fail Fail. General Tips on Fearing Only Pirates: I find HiPSing by partymates to be bothersome, since if I can survive, so can they, because none of my characters yet have had as much AC or as much Epic Dodge as an SD. It crashes me like mad, and I know I'm not alone, so ask your team first before HiPSing, especially if the server's full. ------------------------------------- Shifter: Too much ground to cover. ------------------------------------- Weapon Master. 1) Unique buffing: Fail 2) Spawn disabling/anti-buffing: Borderline They can get into a caster's face and cut its chances of casting down to nil: it only takes one crit of WM damage and they'll fail Concentration, and almost every round of WM combat has a crit in it. Most epic spawns have high Discipline, but hugely AB-heavy WM's can take most things down if they have have IKD. 3) All-day damage output:Top of the Class All day, all week, all year. WM crits just keep on comin' The Duracell bunnies of damage. With the uberised AB an epic WM hits, they don't miss very often. Or very 'ever'. 4) Not dying: Fail Basically a WM's 'tactic' is to send so much damage downrange that the spawn runs out of HP before they do. This fails from early epic onwards, but is pretty handy before then. 5) Once/day damage/buff output: Fail Ki Damage is their only trick and it's not good. General Tips on Having a Howitzer attached to your Swordarm: About the only difference between you and any other meleer is you'll often have enough AB to run Power Attack and not lower your hitrate. Learn when those times are and get pummeling when it's so. Buildmonkey Fin. the actual reply to posts made above wrote: Trickery is nothing but free Improved Invis scrolls. Evil get Negburst, which is sexynice for the Sentinel and is in effect +4AC/DR by the time you get to Cleric28. Travel is never truly redundant; even when there's a mage or Bard around, you can prep a few and extend the gap between rests. Cleric24/BG2/Rogue2 sounds reasonable to me. One BG level pre-epic, the second at the end to top up Discipline. You'll have good CHA since 1.69 meant Divine Might/Shield is almost the only option for a melee Cleric.

Author:	The Peacock [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 23:33 PM ]
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Why not be slightly nuts? We always love those clerics that can't control their inane impulse to kill whatever gets on their nerves; 18 Cleric/10 Barb Muwahahahah! Runs away hiding

Author:	Sokar Rostau [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 7:36 AM ]
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I need some advice on level 25-27 Sorceror spell selection. The character is a War Wizard so his offensive spells are meant to be for battlefield control rather than direct brute force when possible. Will be taking ESF: Conj and GSF: Evocation (need a great Cha otherwisae I'd take Epic Evo as well). Spells in brackets I'm not sure of. 1 (5): Colour Spray, Mage Armour, Magic Missile, Protection from Alignment, (True Strike), (Shield), 2 (5): Cloud of Bewilderment, Bull's, Endurance, (Cat's), Eagle's, (Flame Weapon) 3 (4): Flame Arrow, GMW, (Keen at lower lvls, replaced in Epic), Protection from Elements, (Gust?), (Magic Circle?) 4 (4): Evard's, ILMS, (Summon IV currently, change later), Improved Invis, (Ice Storm) 5 (4): Firebrand, Acid Sheathe, (Lesser Spell Mantle? Can be empowered), (Mind Fog, I might have PDK Fear so this may come in handy... but otherwise not that useful), Cone of Cold, (Dismissal), (Hold Monster) 6 (3): IGMS, Greater Stoneskin, Mass Haste (Not much leeway here, would have liked some other spells too) 7 (3): Prismatic Spray, Shadow Shield, (Bigby), (Protection from Spells), (Banishment), (Spell Mantle) 8 (3): Premonition, GS, (Bigby), (Sunburst), (Summon VIII), (Greater Planar Binding), (Incendiary Cloud (why do all the cloud spells after CoB have to suck?)), (Mass Blind/Deaf) 9 (3): Mordenkainen's Disjunction, (Time Stop), (Meteor Swarm), (Weird), (Bigby), (Dominate Monster), (Greater Spell Mantle), (Summon IX), (BBoD) I don't think any Necro spells are appropriate for this character hence a lack of Wail, FoD and Horrid Wilting. Although I might be persuaded to take Horrid or Wail, I won't have the Spell Focii for them anyway.

Author:	Uberuce [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 8:50 AM ]
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For levelling up I was on these 9: Summon IX, Mordy, Bigby Crushing 8: Sunburst, GS, Premo 7: Shadowshield, Spell Mantle, Prot/Spells 6: Mass Haste, Bigby Forceful, Chain Lightning 5: Firebrand, Acid Sheathe, Bigby Interpose, Energy Buffer 4: Improved Invis, ILMS, Confusion, Ice Storm 3: Haste, GMW, Keen, Negburst 2: Bull's, Cat's, Eagle's, Endurance, Flame Weapon. 1: Prot/Evil, Mage Armour, Balagarn's, Colour Spray, Magic Missile. I found that was the best mix of all-day party buffing'n'mob control that didn't totally gank my ability to drop a planet on a boss's head.

Author:	Phantom-D [ Fri, Mar 06 2009, 23:40 PM ]
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Thanks guys and thanks Tormak for the repost.

Author:	brooksthegreat [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 0:00 AM ]
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Which grants more bang for the buck/works out better? Strongheart 23/5 Bard/Fighter, or Lightfoot 25/5 Bard/fighter? Sacrificing 2 levels and 2 CON gives me +4str and +2AC, as well as no XP pen for fighter levels... Then again, to get both Weapon focus and epic weapon focus (not to mention the extra attack) I have to settle for 23 bard.

Author:	belgianbonzai [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 0:34 AM ]
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brooksthegreat wrote: Which grants more bang for the buck/works out better? Strongheart 23/5 Bard/Fighter, or Lightfoot 25/5 Bard/fighter? If you take strongheart i'd go for 20bard/8fighter or 21bard/6fighter/1other class. Gives you more/equal feats. Bard song 20/21 or 23 doesn't matter one bit anyway, neither does the caster level.

Author:	StandingBehindYou [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 8:25 AM ]
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Sokar Rostau wrote: 6 (3): IGMS, Greater Stoneskin, Mass Haste (Not much leeway here, would have liked some other spells too) Why do you have both Greater Stoneskin and Premonition? I was under the impression they didn't stack. Quote: 8 (3): Premonition, GS, (Bigby), (Sunburst), (Summon VIII), (Greater Planar Binding), (Incendiary Cloud (why do all the cloud spells after CoB have to suck?)), (Mass Blind/Deaf) Definitely Sunburst, especially since you have GSF Evocation. With your focus of "battlefield control," this has your character's name written all over it. Sokar Rostau wrote: 9 (3): Mordenkainen's Disjunction, (Time Stop), (Meteor Swarm), (Weird), (Bigby), (Dominate Monster), (Greater Spell Mantle), (Summon IX), (BBoD) There are some of these I would not consider: Meteor Swarm caps out at 20d6 damage. For the same level you could cast an empowered delayed blast fireball, and you're uncertain about one of your level 7 picks anyway. I would also take Weird off the list, since it's a fairly mediocre spell and you don't have an epic Illusion focus. (Caveat: I haven't seen Amia's BoT page for Weird.) Summon IX: don't bother. Every level of epic, summoning a 20 HD outsider gets less and less exciting, even though it's somewhat decent with your buffs on it. (Edit -- I'm actually wrong about this, as it's very helpful for leveling.)

Author:	Jas [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 13:18 PM ]
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I thought balagarn's iron horn is a level 2 sorc spell. Lvl 1 bard but level 2 sorc no?

Author:	Uncle-Opustus [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 13:33 PM ]
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Correct.

Author:	Acrid [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 14:00 PM ]
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What? no time stop?

Author:	Galenson [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 14:08 PM ]
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Who needs timestop when you have dominate monster or gate... or both.

Author:	Uberuce [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 14:24 PM ]
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I keep getting confused for Balagarn's because I'm more of a Bard driver than a mage - in truth I couldn't remember what my last level one spell was since I never really used any except Prot and Mage Armour, so I just guessed. Oh, hang on. I think it was Shelgarn's, just so I had a disposable summon to lure mobs away in case I had had to be Raise Fairy. Items are fine for that, but I'm cheap and lazy, and when you're a Sorc you get some stupid number of castings of the lowbies so you could lure something to Taiwan, chomping on Blades from time to time. Levelling up needeth not Ye Timestop. Of course I have it for my final, PvP-based spellbook, but I'm not telling you the rest.

Author:	QPR [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 18:12 PM ]
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Hokay, time to try something new: Human, strenght based pure Ranger. The idea of this character is a hunter who can take on any prey at any time, and thus I wish him to have as many favoured enemies a reasonably possible, and be able to wield any weapon. I have a few things set in stone: Race: Any human Class: Ranger 30 Aligment: TN or CG Main stats: Strenght Main skills: Animal Empathy, Hide, Move Silently, Listen/spot, Diciplin and Tumble. Minimum wisdom: 14 Must be able to use light armopur effectively for the sexy two bladed sword, double axe and dire mace My scetch so far: Level: (1) Luck of Heroes, exotic weapon profiency, Fav enemy: Undead (3) Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword (5) Fav enemy: Outsiders (6) Power attack (9) Cleave (10) Fav enemy: Constructs (12) Improved Critical: Bastard Sword (15) Iron Will, Fav enemy: Dragon (18) Feat (20) Fav enemy: Human (21) Bane of Enemies (23) Fav enemy: elves (24) Epic weapon focus: Bastard Sword (25) Fav enemy: Giant (26) Fav enemy/ Epic Prowess (27) Feat (29) Fav enemy ? (30) Fav enemy ?, Feat As you can see there are many feats i dont know what to take on. I take focus in bastards sword for the tougher enemies where he will use a shield, but he will use differentw eapns for different enemies, like hammers or dire mace for non critable foes and such. This is intended as mostly a PvM build, that is usefull in any situation. Suggestions for favoured enemies, feats and starting stats as well as subrace if any would be very welcome,

Author:	hendrack [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 18:54 PM ]
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Make it Ranger25/Fighter4/Rogue1 instead.

Author:	QPR [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 18:57 PM ]
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Nuh uh, has to be pure ranger.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 20:30 PM ]
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Pure ranger AND a double weapon? That's shooting yourself in both feet.

Author:	QPR [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 20:40 PM ]
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Double weapon is intended for easier mobs, and general coolness factor, as well as when he is a flanking member of teh party. Otherwise he will use shield and a one hand weapon.

Author:	Uncle-Opustus [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 21:15 PM ]
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Just dual-wield bastard swords? You only get +2 AB from using a dual weapon. But that +2 AB bonus gets quickly overrun by the +3 you get from your Weapon focuses.

Author:	QPR [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 21:51 PM ]
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Dual bastardswords give -4 Ab on each hand because its medium sized. I would be interested in suggestions for favoured enemies however; whih are the harder ones where BoW would makea difference?

Author:	Kjetta [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 21:59 PM ]
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You will be damned cool though. I concur with that.

Author:	Uncle-Opustus [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 22:00 PM ]
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Yarp. My point was: Using a dual weapon is -2 AB. Wielding two bastard swords is -4 AB. If you take the focuses with bastard sword you have only a penalty of -1 AB, dual weapon remains on -2 AB. That, or then I'm screwing up terribly, since I'm damn tired and going to bed now.

Author:	QPR [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 22:09 PM ]
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I should perhaps clarify that im not after an uber build, just one that is tolerably usefull in PvM, and most of all; fun to play. Using the companion as tank and then flanking with a double axe or two-blade sword just have to be fun. Much more fun than dualwielding a bastardswords... or hammers. I want to use the hammer often, sounds so incrediby brutal.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Sat, Mar 07 2009, 22:10 PM ]
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: Yarp. My point was: Using a dual weapon is -2 AB. Wielding two bastard swords is -4 AB. If you take the focuses with bastard sword you have only a penalty of -1 AB, dual weapon remains on -2 AB. That, or then I'm screwing up terribly, since I'm damn tired and going to bed now. You are. -4 + 3 = "-1". -2 + 3 = "+1". But +0 + 3 = "+3".