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The Incognitos
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 Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 4:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Have started playing a Lawful Neutral cleric of Kelemvor and would appreciate some advice on how people interpret the dogma. I have been RPing it as a pseudo-monotheistic ideal in which souls must be prepared to meet Kelemvors Justice. The character does not pass judgment at all but will destroy necromancers (avoiding/denying judgment).
Characters history is that he was a battlefield cleric who denied last rites to those he thought unworthy, now pays penance by administering to travelers. The imposing judgment was a big part of it; no matter how many times I read the Kelemvor dogma I cannot find justification for rampant aggression against all evil. Necromancers yes, but all evil?
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 4:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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i think its because he is against ending lives to early..and most evil people tend to strive to that gold..aka sacrifising children killing innosents and so forth
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 4:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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Remember that the Kellies on Amia are zealots, and their leader employed a very strict interpretation of very specific orders of Kelemvor, but ignored the others, like the one mentioned above:
Kraniumbrud wrote: i think its because he is against ending lives to early..and most evil people tend to strive to that gold..aka sacrifising children killing innosents and so forth .
Regards, _________________ 
"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 4:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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FA_Frey_XC wrote: Remember that the Kellies on Amia are zealots, and their leader employed a very strict interpretation of very specific orders of Kelemvor, but ignored the others, like the one mentioned above: Kraniumbrud wrote: i think its because he is against ending lives to early..and most evil people tend to strive to that gold..aka sacrifising children killing innosents and so forth . Regards, they dont ignore it, there is a ton of examples of EO's hunting down mass murderes who arnt necromancers, but that dosnt change the fact that the eternal orders main role is to fight necromancers and undead..
try actually looking at what we do frey, im tired of people accusing us of not following kelemvors dogma, when the EO are following it to the letter..some would say a little to much to the letter..but none the less..
*Edited*
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 5:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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Did you read what I posted?
I said the EO played on Amia are zealots, but ignore the Dogma in regards to ending peoples lives early in favor of torturing and then murdering, sometimes four times, said necromancers and murderers.
I'm tired of people jumping to defend a faction who's own leader stated clearly that he felt the same way - the EO are zealots who.. lemme see:
Phearnun wrote: :: The isle was now free from those that so long had spread their justice upon those they defied with unyielding zeal.
::
and besides, we all know that's a bunch of poo. The EO will be back.
Regards, _________________
"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 5:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I'm warning every one of you people, this better not degenerate to stupid vieled flames, trolling, and other silly stuff. I'd better not see one bit of "You RP bad" "Your do this wrong" or ANYTHING.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Pony
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 5:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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Last edited by Pony on Tue, Nov 05 2019, 14:25 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Zante
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 6:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Kelemvor is lawful neutral.
Kellies don't need to be good.
_________________ 
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 6:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Zante wrote: Kelemvor is lawful neutral.
Kellies don't need to be good.
But they can be good. LG is an allowable alignment.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Zante
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 6:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Mm. Was replying to the question in the title.
Think lawful neutral fits the faction as it is on amia. They are not good even if their motivation is, a lot of their acts can be classified as evil. See nothing wrong occ with the order, even if they sometime take the part of villains. They are not being out of character or breaking dogma if they do evil acts for their laws, I would think, seeing as their gods alignment allows this. (lawful evil would be a valid aliment for a kellie, according to the one step rule)
_________________
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Yurell
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 6:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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What's more important is up to your character. In fact, it'll be what defines your character in a religious or moral setting.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Gunz
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 6:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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I've always wanted to see a really well played Evil Kellie. 
::chants:: Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it!
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 7:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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From what I can tell from the dogma good and evil should, for a Cleric of Kelemvor at least, be almost inconsequential. The evil would be something of a personality trait, where as the Lawful aspect would be the edicts of Kelemvor which dominated their actions.
As far as a Lawful Evil Kellie; I do not see how one could play an Inquisitor on Amia without being Lawful Evil. Torture and so on for the greater good, has to be LE. I mean, torture is an evil act, it is that simple. That said, it would be the Lawfulness that would dominate.
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KnightOfKelemvor
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 7:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
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o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: I've always wanted to see a really well played Evil Kellie. ::chants:: Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! I had plans on this but I alreddy plays a Kellie so....
_________________
Player of:
Essedeavenix
Sigurdis Haraldsdottir
Ulfhild
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Galenson
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 8:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
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Heh... when it comes to playing religious characters, you fit into your own groove and choose the parts of the doghma that -your- character would focus on.
For example:
My criticisable Salandran focuses on only two particular words of the Salandran doghma. The first is to give -medical aid- to -sentient beings- who need it regardless of who they are. If a child was starving in an alley way, he doesn't feel divinely inspired (or inspired in general) to feed the child because it's not classed as Medical aid in his mind.
Sure the other Salandrans disagree with his interpretations, the DMs probably consider him borderline heretic. Even I disagree with his views but after three years he's evolved as a character to focus on a particular part of the doghma. It's how he is.
If a painbearer of Ilmater chooses to focus on hunting down those who seek to put suffering upon others over their other duties because they feel it's the way of ending world suffering, let them. Deities are open for interpretation, it's not like they manifest themselves on Faerun every day and tell their followers "hey, you're not doing it right!"
_________________
Plays:
"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 9:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Murder's not murder if the other guy's trying to kill you or your friends, that's self-defence or warfare.
Nor is it murder if he would try to kill you if he was aware you existed, that's war. Sniping being an obvious example.
Nor is it murder if you're wearing a special robe, and have prefixed your name with 'Judge' and some of your buddies have decided the other guy's a Bad Man. That's execution.
There's some good RP coming from the way a lot of characters don't agree with that last one. And lots of political debate in the real world abotu capital punishment, but let's stay on topic.
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Yurell
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 10:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Uberuce wrote: Murder's not murder if the other guy's trying to kill you or your friends, that's self-defence or warfare.
Nor is it murder if he would try to kill you if he was aware you existed, that's war. Sniping being an obvious example.
Nor is it murder if you're wearing a special robe, and have prefixed your name with 'Judge' and some of your buddies have decided the other guy's a Bad Man. That's execution.
There's some good RP coming from the way a lot of characters don't agree with that last one. And lots of political debate in the real world abotu capital punishment, but let's stay on topic.
That's why my Salandran's oath is to never harm a sentient being except in last defence of her life or the life of another. That gets around most wordplay.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 12:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Conducting Kelemvor's laws. Nothing is more important. Fair and simple.
_________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 12:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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You see I would think the majority of Kelemvorites would believe in redemption. I'm sure the whole 'innocence proves nothing' idea is dear to all of them but I also think that most would still be inclined to favor imprisonment with a view to penance before facing Kelemvors judgment?
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Pony
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 12:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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Last edited by Pony on Tue, Nov 05 2019, 14:25 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 12:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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I've had very little contact with Kelemvorites while using my other character (This was a major contributing factor towards my decision to create a Kelemvorite Cleric). So, that Richard character, I would assume he is LE in alignment?
To be honest, one of the main reasons my character is LN is that he intends to 'find his place in Kelemvors graces' again. If he ends up following the path of the Inquisitor I will try and push him towards an LE alignment.
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Delarwyn
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 13:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Aligators land...
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I was in jail with the Kellies and the two times I were in their judgment room I had loads of fun.
I hope the Eternal Order didn't end Gabe, I have questions for you folks after I met Frey and he explained the side of necromancers. Delarwyn never got her necromancy classes from the EO either.
About the question above, I am sure it was already answered. So, I wont try to explain what was explained already.
I don't think you can have a LE alignment and be a Kelemvorite, but I am not sure. I don't see him as an evil person, just some type of rigorous believer. You know that thing, sometimes you need to a bad thing so you do a greater good?
An example from the Bible, Jesus hit the guys selling things in the temple of God once with a whip, he broke the tables, he threw everyone out. I bet some of them bled and everything and I bet they said Christ were evil. Now I would think that you can rarely find anyone that will call Christ evil. And no I am not a Christian and I dont want to discuss christianism. I am only using this good man as an example. _________________ 
Signature by Qualiz
Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.
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StandingBehindYou
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 13:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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Delarwyn wrote: An example from the Bible, Jesus hit the guys selling things in the temple of God once with a whip, he broke the tables, he threw everyone out. I bet some of them bled and everything and I bet they said Christ were evil.
I'm sorry for discussing this example, but since you brought it up I felt the need to. I'll put it in black text so people who want to can easily overlook it.
[religious discussion]
In general Jesus Christ was a lot more forgiving of sinners. Take for example the crowd that wanted to stone an adultress to death, whom he stopped. Or when people asked him if it was okay to break the sabbath to save someone's life, and he said yes. Or when Jesus contradicted the religious authorities who said a man had been born blind as punishment for the sins of his parents.
In his own arrest he rejected violence when he rebuked his disciple who tried to fight off the arresting soldiers. Many of the people who called him messiah thought he was going to be a second King David who would violently rebel against Rome. They were surprised when instead he taught peace, and spoke of a heavenly kingdom instead of establishing a literal kingdom on Earth.
Jesus reserved his greatest condemnation not for traditional "sinners" such as prostitutes or corrupt officials collaborating with the Roman occupation, but towards the self-described religious who said they obeyed the will of God but failed in their duty to be kind towards others, claiming to follow the letter of the law but not upholding the spirit: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel."
[/religious discussion]
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Delarwyn
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 13:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Aligators land...
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ummmm.. well, but he had to use his heavy hand once. Even if it contradicted him and by saying that, maybe Richard is the one condemned to use the heavy hand in a daily basis?
The point was not the Christ, but the example of sometimes being harsh and even looked upon as evil but in order to do the greater good.
I wont say anything about your post Lisa, just because it can become a bad topic and destroy this one if I do. _________________
Signature by Qualiz
Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.
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Pony
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 14:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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Last edited by Pony on Tue, Nov 05 2019, 14:25 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 14:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I imagine most of the LE Kelemvorites are ex-Myrkulites who haven't quite adapted to having a new man in the office, but make-do well enough.
The best part of playing a cleric, or another religious character (that is, almost any character!) is getting to interpret the reinvent the dogma and worship of your patron and interact with fellow faithful, trading influences both ways. I don't think a discussion on how a follower of God X should behave is nearly as fruitful as how said follower could behave.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Last edited by IronAngel on Mon, Mar 30 2009, 19:36 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 16:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Phearnun wrote: No, Richard is not LE but LN.
'A lawful evil villain methodically takes what he wants within the limits of his code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts. He cares about tradition, loyalty, and order but not about freedom, dignity, or life. He plays by the rules but without mercy or compassion.' - D&D about Lawful Evil
I'd imagine one form of a LE Kelemvorite would be that he or she would give severe merciless punishments for the smallest offenses and breaches of the dogma. A devoted member of the cleregy, compassionless, merciless and terribly loyal to the church.
I am sure there are many ways to portrait a LE member of the kelemvorite faith, but where as Richard is still in a greyzone that one can say he just is tasked to do the dirty work and punishes the bad guys, LE evil would be a lot less grey. It can be a lot of fun, as it would just be a few steps from what we do, and unlike playing a banite, you can still justify yourself with good stuff.
Richard kills and tortures people, but he does it for a good cause. He only does this if it's really needed or commanded by the laws of Kelemvor. It doesn't justify his doings, but it at least explains them a bit. I wouldn't call it rotten to the core. And in general Richard is a pretty bearable and good chap. _________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Gunz
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Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009, 19:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Delarwyn wrote: I don't think you can have a LE alignment and be a Kelemvorite, but I am not sure.
No, you can. Kelemvor allows LG, NG, LN, TN, LE and NE clergy. But on Amia I believe it's, LG, LN, TN and LE clergy. But Iron has a point, LE and NE Kelemvorite clergy are Myrkulyte converts. The rule is, they must change to LN or TN within three years or fall from Kelemvors grace.
For quiet a while now, I've been playing with the idea of making a LE follower of Jergal/Kelemvor but I feel like I already have too many with five so I won't be doing that any time soon.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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