AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Server swapping exploit

As I said in the other topic, swapping servers to be raised and then returning to the original server is an exploit and results in a punishment if you are caught doing it. You have been fairly warned now, so stop doing it asap if you were doing it before. If you weren't, don't even begin.

Thanks.

Question are you allowed to swap, when dead, get a raise but stay on the other server? Ie, I am killed on A hunting for exp as Amareth, I log onto B, get a raise but stay on B and hunt there insetead. is that an exploit?

I will concider anything that has you logining in dead in an public area dead an exploit. If you show up in the middle of Winya dead without actually being killed there, it's an Exploit. If you login to B for the first time and you are in the entry, then that's not really something we can worry about. People show up dead in there all time.

Last edited by Nekhy on Mon, Mar 09 2009, 16:54 PM, edited 1 time in total.

herkles wrote:

Question are you allowed to swap, when dead, get a raise but stay on the other server? Ie, I am killed on A hunting for exp as Amareth, I log onto B, get a raise but stay on B and hunt there insetead. is that an exploit?

Until further notice* I advice against it. DMs can't read minds and can't keep track of everyone all the time, so it may lead to a lot of confusion from both DMs and players if some people login from A/B and continue on B/A. If you do it now that a warning has been given and until we have a fix, your chances to be spotted by a DM and get punished for exploiting are high, and you do it at your own risk.

In other words, no need to come and cry to me that a bad DM punished you for doing something that looks like an exploit (unless you can mind-read the intention of the one doing it) during the exploit crackdown period when every DM is on red alert, anyway.

* When this has a suitable fix. There'll be notice. Disco's working on it.

Ok so...
(Death) A -> B -> A is bad.
(Death) A -> B is ok.
(Death) B -> A -> B is bad.
(Death) B -> A is ok.

Is that right?

...Don't mind me saying but this is all incredibly stupid.

I think it's more like

(Death) A --> B Bad
(Death) B --> A Bad

(Death) Respawn, switch character, or Log, Good

...Don't mind me saying but this is all incredibly stupid.
If you want people to use the re-spawn why not just drop the XP penalty somewhat so that it wouldn't drive people to log and get a raise?

You can get a horse to move with a carrot or a whip but one way has a better chance of getting you kicked in the end.

The Great Equalizer wrote:

...Don't mind me saying but this is all incredibly stupid.
If you want people to use the re-spawn why not just drop the XP penalty somewhat so that it wouldn't drive people to log and get a raise?

I suggest you take suggestions to where they belong: TtC forum. That's where they get the attention they need from the dev team. This topic is not a place to debate the exploit/customs, but a warning to players so that they can avoid doing something that might result in a punishment, whether they'd do it intentionally or unintentionally.

There's a lot of reasons for the current setup, btw, and 99% of them are technical issues., not decisions made by the team because we had the choice to make those decisions. Blame BioWare, not us.

TGE wrote:

...Don't mind me saying but this is all incredibly stupid.
If you want people to use the re-spawn why not just drop the XP penalty somewhat so that it wouldn't drive people to log and get a raise?

Because, there's supposed to be reasonable consequences to your actions. Being screwy enough to die, and loss of XP and gold are two of them. Heck, I dunno how many dozens of times I've had to hit the respawn button on my toons because luck wasn't with me or I screwed up somehow. Do you track stuff like # of respawn clicks, Disco?

Gers wrote:

Because, there's supposed to be reasonable consequences to your actions. Being screwy enough to die, and loss of XP and gold are two of them. Heck, I dunno how many dozens of times I've had to hit the respawn button on my toons because luck wasn't with me or I screwed up somehow. Do you track stuff like # of respawn clicks, Disco?

Yes, but people are clearly skiping out on the consequences because they believe them to be too sever... Which implies that it is a broken system.

Edit: (Actually seeing as I hardly ever even die, I don't care let somebody else argue for it.)

The Great Equalizer wrote:

Edit: (Actually seeing as I hardly ever even die, I don't care let somebody else argue for it.)

Good logic!

Its what I call the 'Tombraider mentality'.....wanting/expecting consequenceless play, as in clicking 'save game' before a risky action, even though its hardly accurate to call it after Tombraider.

Last edited by Drannok on Mon, Mar 09 2009, 17:40 PM, edited 1 time in total.

The concept of negative consiquences for actions has vanished from most games recently.

VANISHED.

Therefore, anything short of just being raised on the spot will be seen by many people as "TOO HARSH!"

There is no way to keep the people who abuse loopholes form doing it. Simply have to monitor and punish them. And likely, they will leave.

I remember back in the day when you died in Dragon Warrior, you got shipped to the king, you could only save at the king, and you lost half your gold (that sucked) and had to go pay to raise all your party members (sucked even more).

This easily delayed you for hours. And that was a single player game.

On the other hand, with a harsh penalty, you dry up a community fast. It ends up being all super power builds who have low to no risk, or all low level characters.

I'm impressed with how alive Amia is kept.

To simplify this: If you die, you either stay dead, respawn or wait for the reset.

TGE wrote:

Yes, but people are clearly skiping out on the consequences because they believe them to be too sever... Which implies that it is a broken system.

Edit: (Actually seeing as I hardly ever even die, I don't care let somebody else argue for it.)

On the other hand, they might simply be trying to avoid any consequences for screwups what so ever. It's my experience that people avoid loss when they think they can get away with it. But, then I also generally have a dim view of human behavior in general :twisted:

*shrug* It could be either case, but I've never found our death consequences to be too severe. That's just MHO though.

I highly enjoy this statement on behalf of all people friendly enough to rez seemingly poor critters in the B entry -only- to have them hustle back to A, leaving you to feel like queen of the suckers. No more missus nice guy.

I think it would be easier to accept the death penalty if it was simply a straight 20% of gold with a cap as presently. When I'm playing LOTRO I won't be happy about having to retreat (respawn to nearest rally circle) but I know that despite the extra repairs my gear will need (everything gets damaged by 10%) I can make that kind of silver back if I'm a bit more careful.

But that's just my opinion.

Quote:

If you want people to use the re-spawn why not just drop the XP penalty somewhat so that it wouldn't drive people to log and get a raise?

We hate dying but Penelties need to be harsher more then anything.

There is nothing wrong with the xp and gold hit on respawn. Ive alwese looked at it as when you die, you have two options, you can respawn and get back to the action, but at a cost, or you can wait tell reset.. which could be as long as, at most, just under 4 hours (if you die right away) which is in itself punishment for dyeing.

If you die on A, stay dead tell A resets.. if you die on B, stay dead tell b resets.. no if ands or buts.. got an event to get to? Well shoot, use that respawn butten then.

Im sure Disco (or someone) will find a way to lock this down so you cant log to B when dead, or A when dead, or something if it keeps happening though. Or just make it a ban on first offence thing for all parties involved.. you log in dead, your buddy logs in to raise you.. your both banned, good bye.

Even if the server resets you will still log in dead.

If serve A is full (which it is usually 98% of the time) it can take a VERY long time to be able to log in again if you want to keep on playing that character

Understood.

But it will be good if there is a way to track down that.

I mean, you could have died on A, then you logged out to do something else away from the computer while waiting for reset, then reset hit and the server got full before you could go back. You would have lost a chance at being raised because even if you spam DC and manage to log, someone might take a while to come by your dead corpse at the entry.

And then because of this mess, you went to B to be raised instead of waiting 4 more hours for the reset.

I trust Disco will find a way to track this or else players could be punished unjustly.

On the other hand, if people are not supposed to be raised at the entry at all, it might be necessary to find a way to block raises at the entry, so you will be forced to respawn.

This is more a concern than anything, not arguing for the sake of arguing.

Forgive me if my logic is flawed, I'm writing from work and my attention is kind of divided. >.<

I just thought I'd like to add a similar exploit to the no no list.

Switching servers to rest and then switching back to your previous location with all your buffs still active is a no no. I hope any DMs drop a nuclear bomb on you for doing this.

Galenson wrote:

I just thought I'd like to add a similar exploit to the no no list.

Switching servers to rest and then switching back to your previous location with all your buffs still active is a no no. I hope any DMs drop a nuclear bomb on you for doing this.

Oh wow, now THAT is cheap.

Gers wrote:

TGE wrote:

...Don't mind me saying but this is all incredibly stupid.
If you want people to use the re-spawn why not just drop the XP penalty somewhat so that it wouldn't drive people to log and get a raise?

Because, there's supposed to be reasonable consequences to your actions. Being screwy enough to die, and loss of XP and gold are two of them. Heck, I dunno how many dozens of times I've had to hit the respawn button on my toons because luck wasn't with me or I screwed up somehow. Do you track stuff like # of respawn clicks, Disco? :P

When you've screwed up or had a bad roll it is a consequence of your action - it is only right to wait for reset, click respawn or hope someone raises you. However, if the game glitches, lags or crashes, are you still being punished as a consequence for your actions? No, you're being penalised for a technical error.
Then I would like to think it's reasonable for:

The Great Equalizer wrote:

(Death) A -> B -> A is bad.
(Death) A -> B is ok.
(Death) B -> A -> B is bad.
(Death) B -> A is ok.

This is why, when my character dies, I log off and try playing another character. And then when I want to use the dead one, I still get my penalty of probably having to wait around in the welcoming-area [usually B-side to be fair to the thicker traffic on A-side.]

Although, it's not an in-game penalty, of course. If I wind up dead; I probably deserved it somehow other than 'oops'.

Yurell wrote:

When you've screwed up or had a bad roll it is a consequence of your action - it is only right to wait for reset, click respawn or hope someone raises you. However, if the game glitches, lags or crashes, are you still being punished as a consequence for your actions? No, you're being penalised for a technical error.

If you crashed, you'd log back into the server you crashed from. If you switch servers to get a raise then swap back and continue what you're doing you deserve to get your arse pwned via level strip/inventory strip etc.

If you died from lag, tough luck. If you switch servers to get a raise then swap back and continue what you're doing you deserve to get your arse pwned via level strip/inventory strip etc.

If the actual server crashed then it's not your fault.

"Technical errors" have no effect on the player's choice of actions. This exploit can't be performed accidently or without the player knowing they've done it. By doing it you've consented to it and are guilty. You deserve all the punishments if you get caught.

As for dying and then swapping servers at all, it makes no sense. A-mia and B-mia are the same server. If your character dies on A-mia, they're dead on B-mia aswell from an IC standpoint. It's not a relevent point to make to allow swapping servers if you die on either of them, you're dead on both..

Okay, die = respawn or reset or wait for some poor sod to come across your body and raise you...IF you're lucky. So can we dob in an exploiter? XD Call Crimestoppers now!

Last edited by Acrid on Tue, Mar 10 2009, 9:27 AM, edited 2 times in total.

Oh i got a question, sorry if its a different subject but i didnt wanted to make a new topic like this when someome could respond to me clearly:

Pick up poeple with portal is allowed right?

Just saying that because a player told me it wasnt. I know im the kind of poeple who beleive everything they hear but nevertheless, want to make sure XD

EDIT: i take it as a yes

*go sleep*

I die a lot and I have no complaints. It actually made me appreciate the challenge of fighting spawns that are tough for your level (which I highly encourage everyone to do), as opposed to grinding the easy ones.

Imma newbie. To this server anyway. And still finding my feet in NwN after a loong sabbatical. I loathe grinding. I detest adventuring for the necessity of it. But in a good group it is a joy. But those are rare. Finding a group often takes longer than it would to solo the bloody place. But Imma used to that. But death penalties are in my opinion a disheartening pita. I log and find something else to do. As a sorcerer I am not finding Amia simple or breezy to solo. So anything that sets me back is to be avoided on the grounds that it is not fun.

I will not exploit the dual server aspect. Cheating isn't big or clever. But re-earning the last 2k xps isn't an enjoyable thing either.

Happened to me quite a few times too. I got my self-rebuilt PC to some exploring (both A and B) and faced some spawns that were quite tough, in areas I heard about but had no idea about the CR. And my PC died, of course.

If we still had the CR label thing, I would have avoided those areas for sure. But since we don't, you need to find out the hard way if it is a good place or not.

Not to mention some of those areas are quite out of the way or not too commonly frequented (read those imps at Skull Crags Peak, those faerie things at B-mia with their sneak-attacks, the dwarf ghosts at Barak Runedar and the list goes on). Chances are, you will have to stay dead until reset and you will have one of the following options:

- Pray to the gods that someone will come by your PC's corpse;

- Swap to another PC, provided you have another one and are in the mood to RP with that PC;

- Or do the now ugly "login to the other server and wait to be raised at the entry".

Anyway, I am guilty of doing this a few times, for the reasons above. Others, I was dying of boredom on an empty Ultrinnan and could not find anyone to RP or hunt with and had to do some solo adventuring - swapping PCs was also out of question because I was not in the mood for another PC.

In all of those times I swapped servers to be raised, I stood on the server in question for RP or went to another hunting ground.

Now, I will not do it again. Ever.

EDIT: I must be mad. I could swear I quoted someone's portion of a text were s/he was saying that his/her PC died because he went exploring areas for the sake of exploring and faced, unwittingly, tough spawns.

Yea, but dying shouldn't be without penalities. I like penalities, and the anxiety going along with it. I don't like care-bear servers where everyone lives to 1000 and never dies, and they all look like models and have celestials for day care.

Maybe that's why I play on a RP PvP server on Age of Conan.

C'mon people, it's frigging simple...it's the SAME person, whether your on Amia A or B. Until you've resolved that little blerp called Death on your radar, you can't jump forward in time and RP on the opposing server.

I'm serious, this is so ridiculously wrong that I share Galensons' hope that the DM's will Quad-nuke anyone doing anything like this.

Regards,

Galenson wrote:

I just thought I'd like to add a similar exploit to the no no list.

Switching servers to rest and then switching back to your previous location with all your buffs still active is a no no. I hope any DMs drop a nuclear bomb on you for doing this.

...wow, that goes beyond any degree of common sense i can possibly think of. I have no idea how anyone can think that is ok to do.

Zanthair wrote:

Galenson wrote:

I just thought I'd like to add a similar exploit to the no no list.

Switching servers to rest and then switching back to your previous location with all your buffs still active is a no no. I hope any DMs drop a nuclear bomb on you for doing this.

...wow, that goes beyond any degree of common sense i can possibly think of. I have no idea how anyone can think that is ok to do.

"I can physically do it therefore it's alright" I believe is the approach utilised for that one.

I got a simple solution to all this....don't die! seriously! If you didn't die, like the panzies you all are, you wouldn't need to cheat the gods out of penalties in the first place.

Dying, just don't do it!

*goes back to sipping tea*

Alright, so I have a few questions, just to make sure I understand this properly.

Case 1: I die whilst hunting on Server B, and then log that same character onto Server A. Someone raises me, I go through the entry, and I go and roleplay in the forest.
Is that exploiting, wrong, and likely to get me into trouble?

OR is it that you can't be hunting, die, log to the other server, raise, log back onto original server and continue?

Also, how is any of this different to people logging in at server reset and being raised? They can't do anything until someone raises them, no matter what server they are on. So won't they be dead either way?

The actual exploit they're refering to is logging onto the other server for a quick raise and then logging back onto the original server at the point you died.

Case A would be alright.. but Nekhy said to not do it incase a DM points the finger and confuses you for an exploiter.

Quote:

The actual exploit they're referring to is logging onto the other server for a quick raise and then logging back onto the original server at the point you died.

As was said in the other topic... this is not actually possible. If you switch servers not using the portal wand/boat, you end up in the entry, always. You won't get back to the place you died on if you swap servers, but to whatever your home bind point is.

Galenson wrote:

I just thought I'd like to add a similar exploit to the no no list.

Switching servers to rest and then switching back to your previous location with all your buffs still active is a no no. I hope any DMs drop a nuclear bomb on you for doing this.

Yeah, this is quite obviously an exploit. One of those that don't even need further explaining why it's an exploit. Anyone doing it will get their ass kicked, once caught.

Don't feel bad about reporting anyone doing these things, btw.

Zante wrote:

As was said in the other topic... this is not actually possible. If you switch servers not using the portal wand/boat, you end up in the entry, always. You won't get back to the place you died on if you swap servers, but to whatever your home bind point is.

Actually for the first 10 minutes it is possible. How do you think people who crash end up at their last location?

I take risks in Amia, 'cause the penalty for dying is so low. Still, I usually log off when I die and log in with another character, hoping that any friends of mine might log in at reset and raise me to avoid the penalty totally. Why? because I can. It also makes it possible for me to attack critters I've never seen before and go solo to places no one else wants to follow me to. So if the xp penalty was worse, what would I do? I would still play since:

I used to play in a server where you loose yor level x 1000 in xp when you die. It makes you being a lot more careful before attacking anything, but then, there you could get 500-1500 xp for a kill, the xp was not nerfed down as it is in Amia.

From time to time, I play in a server with perma death too, (yes, I'm a masochist

and there I'm really careful. But I still play and enjoy the game, mostly since all of us (the very few) that play there know from the beginning that it is so rough, and getting to level 10 really means something.

In short, If the penalties for dying were risen in Amia, people would be more careful, not hunt things they weren't shure they could handle, seldom solo hunt and being even more powerplaying and tweaking their characters to get most bang for their bucks. If this is the intention of the DM team, well go ahead. At the same time, I can see that the servers with hardest penalties are the one that are almost always empty in the gamespy list. So there is a choice; keep it as it is and keep Amia full of curios players that can do mistakes that don't take weeks of xp-grinding to overcome. Or use hard punishments and a lot of lost xp when dying, and loose the playerbase which isn't true hardcore - i.e. most of them, and become another nearly empty server in the gamespy list.

Last edited by Zante on Tue, Mar 10 2009, 8:43 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Quote:

Actually for the first 10 minutes it is possible. How do you think people who crash end up at their last location?

If you don't switch servers, yes.

You are in amia forest on A, you log out, you log back in to A, you go to amia forest.

But

You are in amia forest on A, log out and log into B, then head back to A, you get taken to the entry.

Unless there's some portal function I am not aware of?

Galenson wrote:

Zante wrote:

As was said in the other topic... this is not actually possible. If you switch servers not using the portal wand/boat, you end up in the entry, always. You won't get back to the place you died on if you swap servers, but to whatever your home bind point is.

Actually for the first 10 minutes it is possible. How do you think people who crash end up at their last location?

This is why exploiting this will hurt all of you. I can easily block it, but a the result is that any crash will put you back in the entry.

Dev Disco wrote:

Galenson wrote:

Zante wrote:

As was said in the other topic... this is not actually possible. If you switch servers not using the portal wand/boat, you end up in the entry, always. You won't get back to the place you died on if you swap servers, but to whatever your home bind point is.

Actually for the first 10 minutes it is possible. How do you think people who crash end up at their last location?

This is why exploiting this will hurt all of you. I can easily block it, but a the result is that any crash will put you back in the entry.

Don't do it Disco

Help us weed out the exploiters who won't stop now, and maybe he doesn't have to.

Dev Disco wrote:

This is why exploiting this will hurt all of you. I can easily block it, but a the result is that any crash will put you back in the entry.

Don't hurt us all then, check if the entering object is dead and apply punishment from there?

Nah, I think I'll simply apply the penalty when you die, and only return your gold and XP when you are properly raised (ie: in the same area where you died).

Even better, but, sucks dying the last seconds before a reset though.

C'est la vie. The current set-up sucks worse.

Server swapping exploit - read and stop doing it

Who is online